George Bush's CV.. This man is a fucking fool.

[wiky]

a bit out of last postings, but related to the thread

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...name_page.html

[asymmetrical1]

dem bro...but I enjoy listening to all sides of the argument!!

hehe, thought you were green party, lol

[asymmetrical1]

the uk media breaks most of the stories.......
how gb stole the prez and is squatting at 1600 pennsylvania....
and the complete BULLSHIT story of Jessica Lynch

[Cycleon]

I live in Germany .... That is the long and the short of it , if the American people bought into this thing sufficiently to have themselves hoodwinked then they are as equally culpable as the Germans who voted in the Nazis.

dont even begin to compare Americans who voted to elect a president in 2000 who invaded 2 countries after being attacked on 9/11 to the german people who watched and assisted as the Nazis exterminated millions right in their own country -

that is what I find funny about rabid liberal thought, it thinks that by mentioning apples and iron rods in the same sentence that it makes them the same thing - if a "right winger" issued such a statement you can be sure that the howls of protest from the left would never cease.

[Catamount]

Liberals just need something to complain about. They honestly can't go one day without complaining about something the US does. UVM was not the greatest school to go to if you hate liberals. If any of you know anything about UVM you know what I'm talking about. If you don't like it and if it's so bad then move somewhere else because I'm doing just fine

[Tock]

[QUOTE=CYCLEON]dont even begin to compare Americans who voted to elect a president in 2000 who invaded 2 countries after being attacked on 9/11 QUOTE]


Ok, the US was attacked on 9/11 allright . . . but by who? It wasn't the Iraqis, and it wasn't the Afghanastanis either. Some goddamned idiot terrorists did . . . and that's far from being adequate reason to attack Iraq, that's for sure.
Bush said we had to attack 'em because they had Weapons of Mass Destruction. Now that we've searched the country pretty well, it looks like they didn't have WMD. What they do have is lots of oil. What the Bush Administration had was lots of people who thought a war would be a quick and easy way to get at that oil. Hah.

Shortly before the US attacked Iraq, the French said, "Ok, let's give the search for WMD 3 more months, then we and the rest of the UN will join you." Bush wouldn't wait the extra 3 months, told France & the rest of the world to get fucked, he'd have the US do the whole thing alone. And now Bush is regretting his haste . . . evidently he had a plan for the war going in, but not one for either once he got there, or for turning the country back over to Iraqi good guys . . .

Oh yah . . . this is what smart foreign policy is all about . . . What scares the hell outta me is that the Bush administration is full of fundamentalists who take the book of Revelation literally and are trying to start Armegeddon so Jesus will come back sooner. Y'all remember Interior Secretary James Watt from the Reagan years? Another gem . . .
--Tock

[Mandinka]

dont even begin to compare Americans who voted to elect a president in 2000 who invaded 2 countries after being attacked on 9/11 to the german people who watched and assisted as the Nazis exterminated millions right in their own country -

that is what I find funny about rabid liberal thought, it thinks that by mentioning apples and iron rods in the same sentence that it makes them the same thing - if a "right winger" issued such a statement you can be sure that the howls of protest from the left would never cease.

Huh? So the crucial difference here is that you did the Nazis did the exterminating in their own country (actually wrong too as the vast majority were executed in Poland)? What the fuck do you think the term "collateral damage" refers to?
In fact chum , your memory is very short indeed since there was a concerted effort by a British PM to try American soldiers for War crimes in Vietnam in Sweden , as was there an effort to try soldiers for their part in war crimes in Kosovo (the U.S. refused to allow their soldiers be tried claiming that they had a duty to protect all American citzens (even on foregin soil!!!!!????) ).
Let me finish here by quoting an American judges opening statement at Nuremberg "If certain acts and violations of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them. We are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoke against us."

[Cycleon]

I am not debating the issue that those who commit "war crimes" should be held accountable - I certainly think that they should (as there are a few cases that are coming out of Iraq now that a few soldiers have been courtmartialed for excessive force - in what other country would that EVER happen?) but not by people who think that the invasion of Iraq is remotely comparable to Hitler exterminating 5+ million Jews and God knows how many other poles, chechs,, etc. - is it any wonder that the US will not subject its soldiers to the tender mercies of people with these kind of thoughts? much less the laughable "human rights leaders" of the middle east and asia who would equally pass judgement in such a court - next thing you know you will be declaring that chinese courts are the epitome of just decisionmaking - it would be funny if not so tragic.

And let me repeat - when your little countries gets it shit together - then I will deem you capable of speaking about mine -
Americans of course have every right to talk about problems in government because of course, they are ultimately responsible for it - so while I disagree with tock - I can at least support that he has a right to say it.

and tock, really, do you think that the French would have joined under any reason? not when we find that the french diplomats (russian too) were giving saddam direct advice on how to stall the US action and how to play the UN Security council. I can understand them since it was contrary to their interests - they bought Iraqi oil very cheap and they sold Sadam all of his goods - germans made many of the fortifications and russians sold many of the weapons - while the UN collected almost 1 billion a year in management fees for the sanctions fund (oil for food). Certainly I can understand their reluctance in letting that bonanza go - but to cloak it in self riteousness (while a good tactic to be sure) just doesnt hold water at all - nor does saying that Bush is only in it for the oil.

ONe thing I will agree si that there are elements in the administration who for many long years have sought to remake the ME and think that this is now their chance - and it is good to keep a check to make sure that these things, while perhaps beneficial, are really in the US national interest over the long haul.

[Mandinka]

And let me repeat - when your little countries gets it shit together - then I will deem you capable of speaking about mine -
Americans of course have every right to talk about problems in government because of course, they are ultimately responsible for it - so while I disagree with tock - I can at least support that he has a right to say it.

I am curious as to know why a moderator of a well respected board chooses to refer to Ireland as a shitty little country since as Bouncer points out , it has done quite a bit of noble work recently. No other poster has referred to your country in such a manner so kindly defer from naked xenophobia. Actually I think it is in more non-aggressive countries such as ours that we have a more balanced view of global conflicts since we do not stand to gain or lose much regardless.
Also and perhaps more pertinently , if u call having a head of state irrevocably in power such as Dubya then I'm curious as to what u regard as "getting it's shit together"?

[Cycleon]

Actually I was referring to any country outside of the US - and had germany as you referenced in mind not Ireland at the time - I also did not say a "shittle little country" - do not change my words (tho a common tactic to attempt to inflame others) - I said "little countries get their shit together" the "your" can be universally applicable as the situation so requires - having been to Ireland, it is a beautiful country I might ad (both sides of it) - Ireland would catch less heat than most to be sure but if you are working for the betterment of free peoples - see what you can do about your northern border before venturing too far afield - granted we might take such advice for our southern hemi as well.

[Mandinka]

as there are a few cases that are coming out of Iraq now that a few soldiers have been courtmartialed for excessive force - in what other country would that EVER happen?

Eh..... Britain for example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2932334.stm

[Mandinka]

Actually I was referring to any country outside of the US - and had germany as you referenced in mind not Ireland at the time - I also did not say a "shittle little country" - do not change my words (tho a common tactic to attempt to inflame others) - I said "little countries get their shit together" the "your" can be universally applicable as the situation so requires - having been to Ireland, it is a beautiful country I might ad (both sides of it) - Ireland would catch less heat than most to be sure but if you are working for the betterment of free peoples - see what you can do about your northern border before venturing too far afield - granted we might take such advice for our southern hemi as well.

Ok , I'll bite , why is Germany not in order? Thanks for the compliments over Ireland , I currently live in Munich , Germany and its a perfectly wonderful place , plenty of your countrymen here actually , completely safe , everything works like clockwork.....
As regards the border , that is sorting itself out as we speak.... in a peaceful manner - maybe u should take a few notes over there.

[asymmetrical1]

i live in germany too.....can leave my car unlocked at night...as well as my house

[Cycleon]

as re to living in Germany - thats great but wer are discussing a country's foriegn policy - you would like it here in the US as well - were I grew up no one locks doors or cars either - but I live in NYC so it is a bit different here (but then there arent many americans here - tho the ones who arent are a hard working bunch and generally pretty good). Now if we were talking about letting the germans take over the MTA (NY subways) I would be all for it - but I have not seen where their foriegn policy is such a wonderful thing - I think if I am not mistaken that they are the ones building the nuclear facility in Iran now? - and you will see very soon that the islamic fanatic is already in your house - tho I hope not with the results we had

[asymmetrical1]

as re to living in Germany - thats great but wer are discussing a country's foriegn policy - you would like it here in the US as well - were I grew up no one locks doors or cars either - but I live in NYC so it is a bit different here (but then there arent many americans here - tho the ones who arent are a hard working bunch and generally pretty good). Now if we were talking about letting the germans take over the MTA (NY subways) I would be all for it - but I have not seen where their foriegn policy is such a wonderful thing - I think if I am not mistaken that they are the ones building the nuclear facility in Iran now? - and you will see very soon that the islamic fanatic is already in your house - tho I hope not with the results we had

true cyc, there were terroist cells in frankfurt...koln...all over

[BOUNCER]

Cyc, you have not answered my reply. Re. me and my countryment serving outside our borders for the betterment of mankind and democracy. And while you continue to call me out on my countries actions beyonds its borders (Which I believe I've answered) and continue to refere to us as a "shitty little country". I have avoided America's many failings, to name but a few, Hiroshima (your the only western country to have used WDM's). Mai Lai (sp'ing) Carpet bombing of Hanoi (which advanced your military goals probly a few months), Iran, the copters and 24 dead Anericans. Gen. Olie North and the Iran/contra scadal. Beirut 84, and 246 dead marines and your 'tactical withdrawal' to San Fransico etc. Somalia etc etc etc.. So please, please don't refer to my country as a "Shity little country", while you and your co-hourts Britain tcontinue to fly in the face of world opinion and continue your opression of Iraq.

Oh, btw. What about britains prisoners in Guantanamo Bay?, are they to be ignored in your war againt Terror. Woops, of course 18 of those are not from Egpyt and the rest from Saudi and Lebaon... I could go on, and on. but since this thread started out as a GWB thread I won't. I'll let the 'usual suspects' to drag my thread into the gutter.

Guys you wont't believe the amount of PM's I' recieved from this thread both supporting me and gainst me. I never asked for anyone to support me in anything since I stand for no particular political forum.
I simply stated that George Bush is a fool. Of course others wished to jump on the same 'band wagon' and portray (sp'ing) themselves as the same kind of fool. So be it.

[JohnDoe1234]

Cyc, you have not answered my reply. Re. me and my countryment serving outside our borders for the betterment of mankind and democracy. And while you continue to call me out on my countries actions beyonds its borders (Which I believe I've answered) and continue to refere to us as a "shitty little country". I have avoided America's many failings, to name but a few, Hiroshima (your the only western country to have used WDM's).
.

Hiroshima?, give me a break. The United States lost over 500,000 soldiers in combat in WWII. To invade to the Japenese mainlaind would have cost at least another 250,000 more. If Truman had failed to drop the bomb, he would have been impeached the moment the American people found out he could have saved all those lives. Just to make a point, to capture the island of Okinawa which is 1/4 the size of the Japanese mainland, The U.S. took over 60,000 causualites in the span of a few weeks. And Germany and Japan were both desperately trying to build an Atomic bomb. Germany came very close, one of the main reasons they failed is because many of the top German scientists were Jews. Since the Jews were being systematicly exterminated by the Nazi's these scientists fled the U.S. and worked on the American atomic bomb. But Hiltler did have plans to use an atomic bomb. He had a detailed plan to nuke, New York city and Washington D.C.. And Japan had planes to use submairines with aircraft stored on board to launch bio-weapons attacks on San Francisco. What do you think?, that had America's enemies developed theses weapons in time they would not have used them. Oh by the way how many of your countrymen died in WWII?, whats that you say ZERO!?, Why? oh because Ireland was neutral in WWII. And as far as you or anyone elses countries contributions to world peace, while they are noble, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the U.S. contributions. Let me rephrase that, many contries have done much for world peace, but many others have made trivial gestures.

[JohnDoe1234]

That italian was just Julius Ceasar

I know. The Roman empire was absolutely incredible. I study it all the time, If there is any empire in history that the U.S should be like it would be that one. When it was at it's height of course .

[tryingtogetbig]

damn...I get back after being gone for a couple of weeks and all of this shit is going on.

No one is perfect. As far as your feelings for our elected leader...at least we did get to elect him. Most other countries will never have that chance. They could be complete fucking idiots, but because of their bloodline they are kings and queens. The only thing I give a shit about bloodlines is in my bird dogs. Go figure.

I can't believe someone on this board started this shit to begin with. Go to a fucking political bashing board if you want to personally attack a country's leader. Don't make me have to defend the most powerful county in the world. How many fucking American soldiers has this country sacrificed in order for piss ants around the world to be able to even exist. Then all they do is bitch about it. Wow. I'm impressed.

peace,

ttgb

[Tock]

[QUOTE=CYCLEON]
and tock, really, do you think that the French would have joined under any reason? not when we find that the french diplomats (russian too) were giving saddam direct advice on how to stall the US action and how to play the UN Security council. I can understand them since it was contrary to their interests - they bought Iraqi oil very cheap and they sold Sadam all of his goods - germans made many of the fortifications and russians sold many of the weapons - while the UN collected almost 1 billion a year in management fees for the sanctions fund (oil for food). Certainly I can understand their reluctance in letting that bonanza go - but to cloak it in self riteousness (while a good tactic to be sure) just doesnt hold water at all - nor does saying that Bush is only in it for the oil.
QUOTE]
==========

Absolutely, yes, the French would have joined. At the very least, the rest of Europe was talking like it would cooperate with Bush after 3 months. Bush (More likely, Bush's administration--Bush himself isn't anywhere near smart enough to figure any part of this mess out for himself) was plainly impatient, blustered like "Well, the US doesn't need any of you snivelly nothings, we got lots of bombs and planes and soldiers and we can do this all by ourselves, and fuck you, very much."

Now he wants them to help clean up the mess he made, and I can understand why they don't want to get involved.

==========

One of the smartest things the US could do to help simmer all the tensions down in the middle east is to get justice for the Palestinian people. The #1 thing the US should do is badger Israel to get rid of that damn wall they're building through Palestinian territory. Right now, the people in the middle east see that wall going up, destroying Palestinian neighborhoods, and the US sending over $9 billion a year to Isreal for foreign aid, and they're thinking that the US supports this bullshit (and lots of other crap like it), and naturally get pissed at the US. If Bush was to twist Israel's arm to remove the wall (at least the part that's not on their own territory) the US would be seen as a moderating influence on the excesses of Israel . . . for starters, anyway.

Anyway, all the crap in the middle east hinges on what happens between Israel and Palestine. The Palestinians have been shit on since the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the rest of the Arabs in the middle east have watched it happen (and sympathyze with Palestine) and those people over there are going to continue to create terrorists and wreak havoc with the international oil market until Justice prevails over there.

US mideast policy sucks bigtime, thanks to US lobbyists who think the US should always 100% stand behind Israel right or wrong, and now we've got millions of troubles over there to thank for this irrationality. Yeah team.

Vote for me, and I'll put an end to this crap within one goddamn year or less . . . or TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!!!
--Tock

[Cycleon]

Bouncer - why is it you must continue to miss quote me? I did NOT say "shitty little country" but your little country need to get its shit together - far different.

tock - the Frnch dont want to get involved yet because we havent given them a big fat juicy contract - all are going to US and UK firms - it is all about money, dont fool yourself

as to the palestinian thing - I am also tired of the proIsrael lobby, and equally as tired of the proPalestinian one - frankly I think we should be taking a very hard look at what is in the best interests of the USofA and do that, since for darn sure that is what Israel and Palestine are doing - but dont fool yourself on that either - if palestine was nirvana tommorrow, the terrorists would be just as busy - do you think that thier leaders are really religious muslims?

[BOUNCER]

Oh by the way how many of your countrymen died in WWII?, whats that you say ZERO!?, Why? oh because Ireland was neutral in WWII.

In WWII we lost roughly 40,000 fighting (mostly) in the British army, and in WWI we lost approx 50,000. And thats coming from the population of only 3.5 million. If you research America's war of independence and your civil war you'll also find many Irish regiments. Speaking personally all the men in my family as far back to the Boar war have served and fought in other's war, except for my father. Who served 12 yrs in the military but all at home.

Answer's that question I think, anymore ANYONE ?. Fire them at me now, because I'm tired you people twisting this thread and taking it away from the fact that Dubya is a fucking fool.

[BOUNCER]

see what you can do about your northern border before venturing too far afield.

Its not our border, its Britains. We don't want it there. We're an Island nation, the only on in Europe. We were invaded and oppressed by England for over 800 yrs. If we had the choice our borders would be natural one's, ie. the Irish sea and the Atlantic ocean. But.... We will have our day.

[BOUNCER]

Oh yeah, and while you all slag off the French. Just give them a thought for their part in Gulf war I.

[Mandinka]

In WWII we lost roughly 40,000 fighting (mostly) in the British army, and in WWI we lost approx 50,000. And thats coming from the population of only 3.5 million. If you research America's war of independence and your civil war you'll also find many Irish regiments. Speaking personally all the men in my family as far back to the Boar war have served and fought in other's war, except for my father. Who served 12 yrs in the military but all at home.

Answer's that question I think, anymore ANYONE ?. Fire them at me now, because I'm tired you people twisting this thread and taking it away from the fact that Dubya is a fucking fool.

Very very sad and very very true , how does Cyc think the theme to the First World War was "It's a long way to Tipperary" ?

As to the question of how voluntarilyy those scientists left Germany who led in the Manhattan project , Lise Meitner (Austrian) , the mother of the atomic bomb (Otto Hahn was the father - a German) converted to Catholicism.They were not Jews (although Meitner was born Jewish). In any case Cyc is wrong since there were no German bombers capable of crossing the Atlantic.

Right let's move onto the question of who exactly gave most to WW2's efforts? Well as any seasoned war historian will tell you both WW1 and WW2 were fought and won/lost on the Eastern fronts , eat this:

http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html

German KIA, Polish Campaign: 16,343
German MIA, Polish Campaign: 320
German WIA, Polish Campaign: 27,280

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, Norwegian Campaign: 4,975
German MIA, Norwegian Campaign: 691
German WIA, Norwegian Campaign: 1,600

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, French Campaign: 46,000+
German MIA, French Campaign: 1,000+
German WIA, French Campaign: 111,640

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, the West to 5.31.44: 20,000+
German MIA, the West to 5.31.44: 1,700+
German WIA, the West to 5.31.44: ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, Balkan Campaign: 1,206
German MIA, Balkan Campaign: 3,915
German WIA, Balkan Campaign: 534

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, Balkans 1941 - 11.30.44: 24,267
German KIA, Balkans 1941 - 11.30.44: 12,060
German KIA, Balkans 1941 - 11.30.44: ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, Eastern Front 1941 - 11.30.44: 1,419,728
German MIA, Eastern Front 1941 - 11.30.44: 997.056
German WIA, Eastern Front 1941 - 11.30.44: 3,498,060

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, Afrika Campaign 1940 - 5.43: 12,808
German MIA, Afrika Campaign 1940 - 5.43: 90,052
German WIA, Afrika Campaign 1940 - 4.43 ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, Italian Campaign 1943 - 11.30.44: 47,873
German MIA, Italian Campaign 1943 - 11.30.44: 97,154
German WIA, Italian Campaign 1943 - 11.30.44: 163,600

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, the West 6.06.44 - 11.30.44: 66,266
German MIA, the West 6.06.44 - 11.30.44: 338,933
German WIA, the West 6.06.44 - 11.30.44: 399,860

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

German KIA, Home Front 1939 - 11.30.44: 64,055
German MIA, Home Front 1939 - 11.30.44: 1,315
German WIA, Home Front 1939 - 11.30.44: ??

[Mandinka]

Hiroshima?, give me a break. The United States lost over 500,000 soldiers in combat in WWII. To invade to the Japenese mainlaind would have cost at least another 250,000 more. If Truman had failed to drop the bomb, he would have been impeached the moment the American people found out he could have saved all those lives. Just to make a point, to capture the island of Okinawa which is 1/4 the size of the Japanese mainland, The U.S. took over 60,000 causualites in the span of a few weeks.

Wrong:
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq11-1.htm
Place of action KIA Wounded, Died, Invalided
died later POW from service
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bombing and landing on Okinawa
Navy 3809 219 0 876
Marine 2897 347 0 2028


Total, all actions
Navy 34607 972 909 4647
Marine 17376 1682 510 10063
Total 51983 2654 1419 14710

Admittedly I found sites claiming that American casualties stretched as high as 300,000 but this site seemed to be most detailed. Regardless its pretty small numbers compared to Russia's 11m.+ loss in both WW1 and WW2

Here's some more interesting stuff from the University of San Diego:
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/clas...dia/myths.html

[tryingtogetbig]

You know, I really have nothing against any of the countries being talked about in this thread. AND, you don't hear me coming out and talking shit on your country's leaders, economy, etc. But, a lot of people don't hesitate in insulting my country's leader. And we are suppose to be the arrogant ones?

[Tock]

You know, I really have nothing against any of the countries being talked about in this thread. AND, you don't hear me coming out and talking shit on your country's leaders, economy, etc. But, a lot of people don't hesitate in insulting my country's leader. And we are suppose to be the arrogant ones?

========================


Well, IMHO, since the US has 325,000 troops stationed in something like 80 countries around the planet, I'd say that at least folks in those affected countries have a right (maybe even an obligation) to speak up about what's going on. Personally, I prefer that they do speak up . . . that way I get a better chance to hear about the shady deals US officials may be trying to pull away from the mainland.
JMHO . . .

[Tock]

if palestine was nirvana tommorrow, the terrorists would be just as busy - do you think that thier leaders are really religious muslims?

==================

I don't know about the leaders, but the damned crazy people who actually strap TNT to themselves to be a suicide bomber, yeah, they're a bunch of fanatic muslims. "Heatherns," as they call 'em in East Texas, "Nothin' but a bunch of goddamned heatherns, worshipping idols and the devil."

[Tock]

tock - the Frnch dont want to get involved yet because we havent given them a big fat juicy contract - all are going to US and UK firms - it is all about money, dont fool yourself

==================


Yeah, it's all about $$$ allright . . . the big billion $$$ US contractors (like Dick Cheney's old company) are going to make in profits from reconstructing Iraq. Probably be lots of rip-offs, too.

How can we 'roid-heads get a cut of that action? That's what I want to know . . . maybe set up a chain of "Sand's Gyms" out there? Set up an export biz from each one, giving each one its own US state as its territory? Whacha think?

[bermich]

==================


Yeah, it's all about $$$ allright . . . the big billion $$$ US contractors (like Dick Cheney's old company) are going to make in profits from reconstructing Iraq. Probably be lots of rip-offs, too.

How can we 'roid-heads get a cut of that action? That's what I want to know . . . maybe set up a chain of "Sand's Gyms" out there? Set up an export biz from each one, giving each one its own US state as its territory? Whacha think?

That would be awesome. Our own gym ownerships in IRAQ. Im sure working out in 150 degree weather would shed some fat off of you

[tryingtogetbig]

========================


Well, IMHO, since the US has 325,000 troops stationed in something like 80 countries around the planet, I'd say that at least folks in those affected countries have a right (maybe even an obligation) to speak up about what's going on. Personally, I prefer that they do speak up . . . that way I get a better chance to hear about the shady deals US officials may be trying to pull away from the mainland.
JMHO . . .

We are not there for our health bro. We are there to, in most instances, help out in some fashion way or form. As unappreciative as the world seems to be nowadays, I think we should say FUCK IT...take care of your own problems and bring our troops home.

Then all these little piss ant countries would be screaming "you are the US...why don't you help us."

Seems no matter what the fuck we do, someone wants to bad mouth the United States and it's leaders. If we use our power trying to do good...people bitch and call us bullies. If we don't do something, like N. Korea for example, people say we should be doing something.

I guess what bothers me the most is people from the US bad mouthing their own country. Unappreciative fucks ought to just get out if they don't like it. Bush was elected president, like or it or not...fucking deal with it. I'm more comfortable with him as our leader with everything going on than if Clinton was still there. All he wanted to do was kiss the piss ant countries ass to try and make them all happy. Fucking pussy. At least Bush is trying to make the world a better place. People will bitch one way or the other. I guess it makes them feel big to talk shit about someone knowing they don't have to worry about any consequences.

peace,

ttgb

[BOUNCER]

Seems no matter what the fuck we do, someone wants to bad mouth the United States and it's leaders. If we use our power trying to do good...people bitch and call us bullies. If we don't do something, like N. Korea for example, people say we should be doing something.

Well our the hell said you should do something about N.Korea buddy?. Listen to whats being said, people where pissed that your president picked on what he thought to be an easy target, lied through his teeth about WMD's and Iraq's involvement in 9/11, made a mockery of the UN and countries calling for more time to find the WMD's. All the while N.Korea was giving him the bird and telling him openly that they had resumed their nuclear programme. In anyone's books that makes Bush both a bully, a lier and a down right coward.

Do you realise that when a country does genuinly (sp'ing) possess's WMD and America has a justified reason to go to war no one will listen. He's made such a monumental mistake lying like he did, and I think he, the USA and the world will rue the day he did.

Now people stop being such damn primadonna's. Your president fucked up, its simply as that. This is nothing about your country, its about a lying little fuck in the white house.

[tryingtogetbig]

Well our the hell said you should do something about N.Korea buddy?. Listen to whats being said, people where pissed that your president picked on what he thought to be an easy target, lied through his teeth about WMD's and Iraq's involvement in 9/11, made a mockery of the UN and countries calling for more time to find the WMD's. All the while N.Korea was giving him the bird and telling him openly that they had resumed their nuclear programme. In anyone's books that makes Bush both a bully, a lier and a down right coward.

Do you realise that when a country does genuinly (sp'ing) possess's WMD and America has a justified reason to go to war no one will listen. He's made such a monumental mistake lying like he did, and I think he, the USA and the world will rue the day he did.

Now people stop being such damn primadonna's. Your president fucked up, its simply as that. This is nothing about your country, its about a lying little fuck in the white house.

I am trying to see your side of things, but when you say Bush is a liar you start to lose me. Fact of the matter is that none of us know if he lied or not. I won't say that he did or didn't because like you, I really don't know.

Iraq had been making a mockery of the UN for more than 10 years. Are we suppose to feel sorry for them now that we flattened the place?

As far as Iraq being an easy target, yes, like most countries in this world, Iraq isn't even the size of Texas. But, they had been giving the bird to the UN for years. They hadn't followed the rules since the first Gulf War. So why is it such a bad thing to get rid of a dictator that had used WMD before and wouldn't hesitate to use them again? Give them more time? I don't get it...they hadn't been doing the right thing for years. There were numerous reasons why Saddam needed to be removed from power. Quit trying to make me feel sorry for Saddam and his government.

Regarding N. Korea, the US has been dealing with them. To not acknowledge that the US government is dealing with them only shows a lack of knowledge. They only openly admitted the nukes a year ago. Saddam had 10 years to comply and chose not too. I'll bet you that in less than 2 years, N. Korea will not be possessing a nuke. Once again, the world will be a safer place thanks to the good ol US of A. But people will still find something to bitch about I am sure. Besides, N Korea hasn't used a nuclear weapon or WMD on anyone before.

Of course, I'm not going to change your opinion on this so I am just wasting my time. In one sentence you bash Bush for attacking and the next sentence you call him a coward for not attacking. Like I said before, damned if we do damned if we don't.

I don't hear anyone bashing our involvement in Afghanistan. We flattend that country too. Is it becasue we let them attack us first, then retaliated? Fuck that. If a country openly harbors, donates money, or helps support a terrostic country that wants to see America be hurt...they should die. Pretty simple in my book.

Bouncer you and I see eye to eye on many things in this world. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

peace,

ttgb

[Red Ketchup]

If a country openly harbors, donates money, or helps support a terrostic country that wants to see America be hurt...they should die. Pretty simple in my book.

I only wish the US had donw that to Saudi-Arabia years ago...

By the way I don't think dubya is a fool... no fool can get to where he is (with or wihtout Daddy's help). I do think he's a dangerous man as he seems to allow his personnal feelings, his business dealings and his religious convictions affect his decision making... all of which have no place in the government of the most powerfull nation on the planet.

As for critisizing your leader, sure we do... why? Because his actions affects us wether we want it or not... but then keep in mind that most of us also do not hesitate to critisize our own leaders... thats the difference between countries like ours and shitholes like Irak, Congo or even China...

"My country right or wrong" is a questionnable attitude which breeds mediocricity, but "My leaders right or wrong" is downright dangerous. Looking back thru history, the "My leaders right or wrong" attitude has always ended up in disasters.

I wish the American bros could understand that when we outsiders disagree with your leaders, we are not taking a shot at the US... we're just taking a look from outside and forming opinions.

Many of you have mentionned "America bashing"... what America bashing???? Has anyone in this thread taken a shot at the American People? I didn't see any of that. Just stating our opinion of POLITICIANS... and in my book politicians do not equate with "We the people".

Just my 2 cents worth... flame away...

Red

[tryingtogetbig]

Many of you have mentionned "America bashing"... what America bashing???? Has anyone in this thread taken a shot at the American People? I didn't see any of that. Just stating our opinion of POLITICIANS... and in my book politicians do not equate with "We the people".

Just my 2 cents worth... flame away...

Red

Good point bro...understood. It just seems the last couple of weeks there has been more than usual amount of America bashing, Bush bashing, etc. in the papers, on the news, everywhere. It's getting closer to elections, so of course we starting hear more of it from Bush's opponents as well here in the US.

On top of all of this, many of the American people are losing loved ones in Iraq. I personally lost a cousin 2 weeks ago when his convoy drove over a bomb. Most Americans know why we are there and that there is job to finish, and I know all of us are ready for the whole Iraq ordeal to be over. I think that when the general population hears so much negatism about our involvement, our president, etc., we get a little defensive. After all, it's our friends and loved ones that are over there fighting.

peace,

ttgb

[JohnDoe1234]

Wrong:
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq11-1.htm
Place of action KIA Wounded, Died, Invalided
died later POW from service
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bombing and landing on Okinawa
Navy 3809 219 0 876
Marine 2897 347 0 2028


Total, all actions
Navy 34607 972 909 4647
Marine 17376 1682 510 10063
Total 51983 2654 1419 14710

Admittedly I found sites claiming that American casualties stretched as high as 300,000 but this site seemed to be most detailed. Regardless its pretty small numbers compared to Russia's 11m.+ loss in both WW1 and WW2


Here's some more interesting stuff from the University of San Diego:
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/clas...dia/myths.html

First of who mentioned Russia? what does that have to do with anything I was talking about?. Here is a bit of information taken from www.thehistorychannel.com . I think we can all agree they are a relaible source of info.
Okinawa was the scene of the last great U.S. amphibious campaign in World War II. U.S. army and marine forces landed there on Apr. 1, 1945, and fought one of the bloodiest campaigns of the war, while the navy offshore suffered heavy damage in resisting attacks by suicide planes (see kamikaze). The Japanese garrison, having lost 103,000 of its 120,000 men, ended organized resistance on June 21, 1945. U.S. casualties were 48,000, one fourth listed as dead. Okinawa was placed in Aug., 1945, under a U.S. military governor and remained under U.S. control until May, 1972, when it was returned to Japan. U.S. military bases were allowed to remain on the island; about three quarters of the American forces based in Japan are in Okinawa. Opposition to the bases from local residents grew in the mid-1990s.

[jollyroger]

I'm with Cycleon. Amen bro. Bush isn't perfect, nobody is. He authorized (with congressional backing) the invasion of Afganistan after 9/11. That showed the world that we were and are serious about (finally) responding to world terrorism with more than words. As far a Saddam goes; I wonder if those who oppose the Iraqi campaign wish he was back in power. What is wrong with killing a sadistic murderer/torturer/rapist? Get real. We know he had wmd's because our government sold him some awhile back when we supported him against Iran and he has used them against his own people. While the rest of the world sits on their hands, the US takes care of business. I hope those that oppose Bush continue to think him a fool. They will learn next year when he is overwhelmingly re-elected that he is nobody's fool. A poor speaker perhaps, but not a fool.

[asymmetrical1]

I'm with Cycleon. Amen bro. Bush isn't perfect, nobody is. He authorized (with congressional backing) the invasion of Afganistan after 9/11. That showed the world that we were and are serious about (finally) responding to world terrorism with more than words. As far a Saddam goes; I wonder if those who oppose the Iraqi campaign wish he was back in power. What is wrong with killing a sadistic murderer/torturer/rapist? Get real. We know he had wmd's because our government sold him some awhile back when we supported him against Iran and he has used them against his own people. While the rest of the world sits on their hands, the US takes care of business. I hope those that oppose Bush continue to think him a fool. They will learn next year when he is overwhelmingly re-elected that he is nobody's fool. A poor speaker perhaps, but not a fool.

he never had wmd's and never used wmd's on his people. he used and possessed chemical weapons. only chance bush has of getting re-elected lies in the fact that the democrats have no real front runner. he will not be able to steal his way back into the presidency this time.

[Red Ketchup]

Guys...

Can't we just let this thread die?

I think everyone who had something to say on the issue has expressed themselves quite clearly and nobody's going to make converts here. I think we can all agree to disagree and move on.

Besides this is starting to look like a tennis match with 2 tireing players going back and forth forever... and we're not even taking about the Williams sisters here (oy! how can one tire of them!?), it's more like 2 bitter old men argueing over the price of Depends at the Legion hall!

Someone get the shovel and give this thread a dignified burrial.

Red