To Anyone considering voting for OBAMA

[SECdominance]

A moderate vs 2 extreme liberals...i'll choose the politically moderate one and vote for McCain. All this Obama/Clinton battle is gonna do is ruin each of them. McCain wins. Mark it down.

[Carlos_E]

A moderate vs 2 extreme liberals...i'll choose the politically moderate one and vote for McCain. All this Obama/Clinton battle is gonna do is ruin each of them. McCain wins. Mark it down.

Not when some of you are voting for Ron Paul. Go ahead split the vote. I dare ya!

[thegodfather]

yeah i like how you turn around now and act like butter wouldn't melt in your mouth. like you haven't been deliberately provocative at times during this thread in order to get a particular response to provide yourself with an oportunity to spout your conservative rhetoric. unfortunately i have read the whole thing and i know that you have not been completely respectful of all people and all their views all of the time.
you know you really seem to have a problem with reality imo. you seem to think that it's o.k. to switch from being condescending, elitist and arrogant when you feel it's appropriate, to poor old me, when someone calls you on it. i make no apologies for becoming personal with people when they attack my right to have an opinion, or when they set out to discredit me by being untruthful.
i've been told three times by arrogant americans that i have no right to have an opinion. tends to piss people off. when are you guys gonna learn that you don't run the world, and that you don't have the right to tell people what to do. i do have an opinion on your countries politics, AND i have every right to state that opinion.
in future if you are looking for a nice calm debate of the issues, perhaps you should take more care to not be so provocative and sensationalist. if you don't want people to get personal don't tell them they have no right to an opinion and proceed to characterize them as "bleeding heart liberals".
i'm not a liberal, i'm a humanist, i believe in equal rights for all people no matter how poor, downtrodden or dysfunctional they may be. i don't feel like you appear to, that **** 'em if they can't help themselves. if people are unable to help themselves there's usually a damn good reason why. it's not simply because they are lazy.
i believe Obama has a similar sensibility, and when you start out by trying to portray him as some kind of radical socialist vandal, who is out to systematically destroy your society, you are going to run into some strong resistance to your "spin". and that's exactly what it was, spin.
unless you are totally dillusional and i can tell you are more intelligent than that, you were completely aware of what you were doing. don't then throw up your hands and plead, how did that happen. you're not fooling anyone. i make no apologies for vehemently defending what i see as the truth, and other peoples right to give their view and not be systematically embarassed by a bully armed with jargon.
nobody said you weren't entitled to a certain opinion, just don't go around trying to incite fear where it's not applicable or truthful and don't try to embarass people who have a different view, but may not be as articulate about it just because they are not currently studying political science. don't want shit, don't start shit.

There is a fine line between vehemently defending your viewpoints and just outright trying to insult with them because you disagree with their viewpoints. Let us not forget why this started, people said they would support a particular candidate, and I merely asked "WHY?" You do not have to be a political science major or even very involved with politics at all to answer that question. If you want to have an intelligent debate on policy that is fine, but do not throw around profanity and start calling names because you disagree with my points of view. I am entitled to them just as well as you. And you want to talk about SPIN? Spin is what you are doing, by labeling my views as "intentionally provocative," when in fact it is just the way I feel and the types of policy that I stand behind. If you knew anything about American politics, and the platform that I support (Ron Paul), you would be smart enough to know that I am AGAINST US imperialism, arrogance, and intervention. I dont want the United States to police the world, I would like our resources to be used at home, for the people of this country, and not in the interests of an elite few who make obscene profits from warmongering. You look very foolish by trying to call me out as such, when anyone with even a little bit of knowledge of the current political platforms of the politicians running right know, would obviously know the kind of things I do and do not support.

Additionally, I never said "**** em if they cant help themselves." That is you totally misquoting me. I said I would deny welfare to people who CAN help themselves but make the concious CHOICE not to. I would never advocate leaving people who have no way to fend for themselves in the streets. However, the truth of the matter is that you are not privvy to the status of welfare in the United States. It is a system which is extremely abused and the truth of te matter is that a LARGE portion of people are cheating the system and benefitting from state entitlements that are perfectly capable and able to work. So your god damn right that I will not support that kind of welfare state that provides the necessities for people who just dont WANT to work. I also will NEVER support any policy which offers free medical care, education, and other state/federal sponsored resources to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, who have broken the law, and broken into this country. There are some 20 million illegal immigrants currently living in this country illegally. Over the lifetime of the 350,000,000 LEGAL residents, these illegal immigrants will end up costing each tax payer $86,000 unless the problem is corrected. You have a problem with me because I am against the welfare state? Which has proven time and time again to be unsustainable and unviable. Why dont you ask some of the members here from the United Kingdom to tell you about the status of their country. They are becoming increasingly Socialist all thanks to the New Labour party. Prices of homes make them virtually unattainable, social welfare programs are extended to all immigrants, and virtually denied to the working UK resident. Their taxes are out of control, paying almost $10/gallon of gas, and nearly 50% of their income to the government. The average UK resident earns E27,000/year.


You want to know what pisses me off? People who suppot the welfare state, and that think its ok to STEAL the working mans money in the form of taxation, and GIVE IT to those who are able to work for themselves but CHOSE not to. That is what pisses me off. You are not priviledged to the state of affairs in the United States today, so unless you are aware of the current problem that entitlements is having on this country, you should politely STFU.

Now hurry along, I think you're late for your dinner date with Josef Stalin and the rest of the Socialists.....Peace...

[novastepp]

you're supposed to let other people decide when you have owned someone fool. you don't own shit anyway. you've said absolutely nothing.
it's not a rebuttle. i don't buy into his argument at all. just got sick of him ridiculing people for not sharing his views.

why let someone else steal my thunder?

[novastepp]

I saw today on CNN that Clinton's states provided her with a electoral vote edge on Obama.

[SMCengineer]

There is a fine line between vehemently defending your viewpoints and just outright trying to insult with them because you disagree with their viewpoints. Let us not forget why this started, people said they would support a particular candidate, and I merely asked "WHY?" You do not have to be a political science major or even very involved with politics at all to answer that question. If you want to have an intelligent debate on policy that is fine, but do not throw around profanity and start calling names because you disagree with my points of view. I am entitled to them just as well as you. And you want to talk about SPIN? Spin is what you are doing, by labeling my views as "intentionally provocative," when in fact it is just the way I feel and the types of policy that I stand behind. If you knew anything about American politics, and the platform that I support (Ron Paul), you would be smart enough to know that I am AGAINST US imperialism, arrogance, and intervention. I dont want the United States to police the world, I would like our resources to be used at home, for the people of this country, and not in the interests of an elite few who make obscene profits from warmongering. You look very foolish by trying to call me out as such, when anyone with even a little bit of knowledge of the current political platforms of the politicians running right know, would obviously know the kind of things I do and do not support.

Additionally, I never said "**** em if they cant help themselves." That is you totally misquoting me. I said I would deny welfare to people who CAN help themselves but make the concious CHOICE not to. I would never advocate leaving people who have no way to fend for themselves in the streets. However, the truth of the matter is that you are not privvy to the status of welfare in the United States. It is a system which is extremely abused and the truth of te matter is that a LARGE portion of people are cheating the system and benefitting from state entitlements that are perfectly capable and able to work. So your god damn right that I will not support that kind of welfare state that provides the necessities for people who just dont WANT to work. I also will NEVER support any policy which offers free medical care, education, and other state/federal sponsored resources to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, who have broken the law, and broken into this country. There are some 20 million illegal immigrants currently living in this country illegally. Over the lifetime of the 350,000,000 LEGAL residents, these illegal immigrants will end up costing each tax payer $86,000 unless the problem is corrected. You have a problem with me because I am against the welfare state? Which has proven time and time again to be unsustainable and unviable. Why dont you ask some of the members here from the United Kingdom to tell you about the status of their country. They are becoming increasingly Socialist all thanks to the New Labour party. Prices of homes make them virtually unattainable, social welfare programs are extended to all immigrants, and virtually denied to the working UK resident. Their taxes are out of control, paying almost $10/gallon of gas, and nearly 50% of their income to the government. The average UK resident earns E27,000/year.


You want to know what pisses me off? People who suppot the welfare state, and that think its ok to STEAL the working mans money in the form of taxation, and GIVE IT to those who are able to work for themselves but CHOSE not to. That is what pisses me off. You are not priviledged to the state of affairs in the United States today, so unless you are aware of the current problem that entitlements is having on this country, you should politely STFU.

Now hurry along, I think you're late for your dinner date with Josef Stalin and the rest of the Socialists.....Peace...

Well said.

[Carlos_E]

I saw today on CNN that Clinton's states provided her with a electoral vote edge on Obama.

The Clintons are pulling ideas out of their ass trying to win.

In a primary, of course, electoral votes are not relevant, but the Clinton campaign is trying to use them as an unofficial measure of strength.
So far, Mrs. Clinton has won states with a total of 219 Electoral College votes, not counting Florida and Michigan, while Mr. Obama has won states with a total of 202 electoral votes.

Mr. Obama, of Illinois, is ahead of Mrs. Clinton, of New York, in most other leading indicators: popular vote (by 700,000 votes out of 26 million cast, excluding caucuses and the disputed Florida and Michigan results, a difference of about 3 percent); delegates (1,622.5 compared with 1,472.5 for her, according to The New York Times’s count); and number of states (27 compared with 14 for her, excluding Florida and Michigan). The opinion polls are mixed but give Mr. Obama a slight edge.

Bill Burton, a spokesman for Mr. Obama, said that the idea of using the Electoral College as a metric was specious because the Democratic nominee, regardless of whom it was, would almost certainly win California and New York.

Many Democrats, including Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Bayh, have opposed the Electoral College in the past, particularly after 2000, when Florida’s 25 electoral votes were awarded to George W. Bush, who became president, even though Al Gore, the Democratic nominee, had won the popular vote nationwide.'

At the time, Mrs. Clinton, who had just been elected to the Senate, said, “I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people and to me, that means it’s time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president.”

She was against it, and now for it in order to win. Typical.

[Doc.Sust]

obama!!! best man for the job IMO. i know we all cant agree. but that is where i stand

[goodcents]

obama!!! best man for the job IMO. i know we all cant agree. but that is where i stand

Over Ron Paul? or the main characters?

[jbonez19]

There is a fine line between vehemently defending your viewpoints and just outright trying to insult with them because you disagree with their viewpoints. Let us not forget why this started, people said they would support a particular candidate, and I merely asked "WHY?" You do not have to be a political science major or even very involved with politics at all to answer that question. If you want to have an intelligent debate on policy that is fine, but do not throw around profanity and start calling names because you disagree with my points of view. I am entitled to them just as well as you. And you want to talk about SPIN? Spin is what you are doing, by labeling my views as "intentionally provocative," when in fact it is just the way I feel and the types of policy that I stand behind. If you knew anything about American politics, and the platform that I support (Ron Paul), you would be smart enough to know that I am AGAINST US imperialism, arrogance, and intervention. I dont want the United States to police the world, I would like our resources to be used at home, for the people of this country, and not in the interests of an elite few who make obscene profits from warmongering. You look very foolish by trying to call me out as such, when anyone with even a little bit of knowledge of the current political platforms of the politicians running right know, would obviously know the kind of things I do and do not support.

Additionally, I never said "**** em if they cant help themselves." That is you totally misquoting me. I said I would deny welfare to people who CAN help themselves but make the concious CHOICE not to. I would never advocate leaving people who have no way to fend for themselves in the streets. However, the truth of the matter is that you are not privvy to the status of welfare in the United States. It is a system which is extremely abused and the truth of te matter is that a LARGE portion of people are cheating the system and benefitting from state entitlements that are perfectly capable and able to work. So your god damn right that I will not support that kind of welfare state that provides the necessities for people who just dont WANT to work. I also will NEVER support any policy which offers free medical care, education, and other state/federal sponsored resources to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, who have broken the law, and broken into this country. There are some 20 million illegal immigrants currently living in this country illegally. Over the lifetime of the 350,000,000 LEGAL residents, these illegal immigrants will end up costing each tax payer $86,000 unless the problem is corrected. You have a problem with me because I am against the welfare state? Which has proven time and time again to be unsustainable and unviable. Why dont you ask some of the members here from the United Kingdom to tell you about the status of their country. They are becoming increasingly Socialist all thanks to the New Labour party. Prices of homes make them virtually unattainable, social welfare programs are extended to all immigrants, and virtually denied to the working UK resident. Their taxes are out of control, paying almost $10/gallon of gas, and nearly 50% of their income to the government. The average UK resident earns E27,000/year.


You want to know what pisses me off? People who suppot the welfare state, and that think its ok to STEAL the working mans money in the form of taxation, and GIVE IT to those who are able to work for themselves but CHOSE not to. That is what pisses me off. You are not priviledged to the state of affairs in the United States today, so unless you are aware of the current problem that entitlements is having on this country, you should politely STFU.

Now hurry along, I think you're late for your dinner date with Josef Stalin and the rest of the Socialists.....Peace...

you have severe mental problems buddy. again good luck with ron paul. i'll be sure to PM you when he loses.

[novastepp]

The Clintons are pulling ideas out of their ass trying to win.

haha you're probably right.

[Synyster]

how about we not have a president!! Congress should stop being bytches and run the damn country like they should be doing.

[rockinred]

Godfather, I can't speak for everyone or even go into the details, but when I say ready for change I am talking about change from Bush/Clinton administrations... it has been since what? 1989 that we have had these two perspectives influencing the nation... I think I am strongly opposed to Hillary Clinton for sure.... and I like McCain's idea about legnth of or terms-term limits to combat lobbyists, but downside to McCain is his position on the war, which has me leaning toward Obama.

[goodcents]

how about we not have a president!! Congress should stop being bytches and run the damn country like they should be doing.

Well said, what's the use of congress doing shlt if some asshole (president) can veto everything and make war whenever he feels like it?

[STRONGMAN91]

F**k Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Panzerfaust]

Godfather, I can't speak for everyone or even go into the details, but when I say ready for change I am talking about change from Bush/Clinton administrations... it has been since what? 1989 that we have had these two perspectives influencing the nation... I think I am strongly opposed to Hillary Clinton for sure.... and I like McCain's idea about legnth of or terms-term limits to combat lobbyists, but downside to McCain is his position on the war, which has me leaning toward Obama.

I am convinced this country is ****ed!

Translation:

"Well I know none of the candidates care about conserving civil liberties and upholding the US Constitution, but I am ok with any change as long as its not Bush or Clinton. If I vote for someone who has a solid plan to turn this country around, I would just be wasting my vote because he won't win".


No wonder we have gone in the shitter...


LMAO @ "Change".....

C'mon man...think for yourself I beg you....I beg you.

[thegodfather]

I need to remind you guys, that the Nazi party came into power through Democratic elections under the Weimar Republic. The people there were so desperate for a CHANGE that they voted for a Nationalist party like the Nazi's. That is the danger of saying I want CHANGE and then failing to elaborate on what kind of change and in what direction and in what respect. I dont call people out to elaborate because I like to antagonize, I do it because I recognize the inherent dangers behind not doing so... Contrary to what Jbonez believes are my motivations.

[rockinred]

I am convinced this country is ****ed!

Translation:

"Well I know none of the candidates care about conserving civil liberties and upholding the US Constitution, but I am ok with any change as long as its not Bush or Clinton. If I vote for someone who has a solid plan to turn this country around, I would just be wasting my vote because he won't win".


No wonder we have gone in the shitter...


LMAO @ "Change".....

C'mon man...think for yourself I beg you....I beg you.

The way I see it is that regardless of how I feel for anyone or how much I know about politics that theoritically can or would change the country; I am still curently stuck between these three choices. I know for sure I don't want to agree to more resources and energy and time on Iraq War... so it really is only up to Obama... also, if we had this thread going at the beginning of the presidential primary then we could talk about others that can have more of an impact on principles that we believe in, but that isn't the case now....so i guess i can't be original on that or think for myself anymore.

[rockinred]

I need to remind you guys, that the Nazi party came into power through Democratic elections under the Weimar Republic. The people there were so desperate for a CHANGE that they voted for a Nationalist party like the Nazi's. That is the danger of saying I want CHANGE and then failing to elaborate on what kind of change and in what direction and in what respect. I dont call people out to elaborate because I like to antagonize, I do it because I recognize the inherent dangers behind not doing so... Contrary to what Jbonez believes are my motivations.

This is true, but we still only have certain options and it is not like we can start from scratch on it. so all you can do is go with the best options available.... it is good to bring out and cause everyone to at least think about what changes are needed as oppose to having uneducated guesses, but unless I was really in a position to influence someone or something with my beliefs how is that going to change anything?? If I have it all figured out (which is impossible because the roots are too dynamic and broad) then what good what that do if the final two candidates were the ones elected and neither

a)held my positions ...
b)would not let me influence their decisions.???

so knowing or being passionate about this only leads to different perspectives on how to handle....but once again it is all theory unless you are really involved. this my freind can drive you crazy

[jbonez19]

I need to remind you guys, that the Nazi party came into power through Democratic elections under the Weimar Republic. The people there were so desperate for a CHANGE that they voted for a Nationalist party like the Nazi's. That is the danger of saying I want CHANGE and then failing to elaborate on what kind of change and in what direction and in what respect. I dont call people out to elaborate because I like to antagonize, I do it because I recognize the inherent dangers behind not doing so... Contrary to what Jbonez believes are my motivations.

i just think you are a crackpot who posts here instead of where it belongs, in a political chatroom, because you wouldn't last five minutes there. it's easy for you to rant here. let's be honest about it. and that's what you are, a raving madman. you must have lots of friends in your political science class. not. why don't you go and join a political discussion group and give all the members here at THE ANABOLIC STEROIDS FORUM a rest. there's a good boy

[thegodfather]

thegodfathermcveigh.thegodfatherwilkes-booth.thegodfatherharveyoswald. thegodabomber. sorry. only joking (sort of). i just think you are a crackpot who posts here instead of where it belongs, in a political chatroom, because you wouldn't last five minutes there. it's easy for you to rant here. let's be honest about it. and that's what you are, a raving madman. you must have lots of friends in your political science class. not. why don't you go and join a political discussion group and give all the members here at THE ANABOLIC STEROIDS FORUM a rest. there's a good boy

First, its the lounge, so its completely appropriate. If I were posting this in the Steroid Q&A it would be a little bit different. ANYWAY, I usually make posts in this forum regarding civil liberties and certain shit ass policies of the US government because it is VERY relevant to the lifestyle of all of the members on this board. They are involved in an illegal activity that the majority of society(including jerkoff politicians) demonizes. So when I post a news article or video about the latest administrative abuse, or drug penalty increase, or some other such nonsense, it is completely relevant to this community. When a member comes on here and says they were involved in a vehicle stop for speeding, and then busted for gear, guess who is responding to help them out and give them some preliminary advice? Yours truely...


You can think Im a crackpot, thats fine... I think that you're a Socialist.

[jbonez19]

First, its the lounge, so its completely appropriate. If I were posting this in the Steroid Q&A it would be a little bit different. ANYWAY, I usually make posts in this forum regarding civil liberties and certain shit ass policies of the US government because it is VERY relevant to the lifestyle of all of the members on this board. They are involved in an illegal activity that the majority of society(including jerkoff politicians) demonizes. So when I post a news article or video about the latest administrative abuse, or drug penalty increase, or some other such nonsense, it is completely relevant to this community. When a member comes on here and says they were involved in a vehicle stop for speeding, and then busted for gear, guess who is responding to help them out and give them some preliminary advice? Yours truely...


You can think Im a crackpot, thats fine... I think that you're a Socialist.

haha o.k. dude. that's good. i'm actually really starting to warm to you, as much as i have tried not to. at least you have the courage of your convictions, you are knowledgeable about the issues that you rave about and you care about peoples human rights. and at no stage have you lost your temper, you've got to admire that sort of passive aggressive behaviour after a while. i just wish you didn't need to be so extremist about everything. maybe that's how you do things in the states, and that's how you quite often end up with these whacked out people running your country! if you think it's working for you then hey, watch out everybody the NAZI'S are coming! woooooooo. boogieboogieboogieboogie. wooooooooo. oh, it's all so over the top and scary, armageddon, plagues, pestilence and conspiricies, wooooooo. the end of society as we know it! obama and his evil priest are out to get all the white people! woooooooo! you keep it going......

[Panzerfaust]

haha o.k. dude. that's good. i'm actually really starting to warm to you, as much as i have tried not to. at least you have the courage of your convictions, you are knowledgeable about the issues that you rave about and you care about peoples human rights. and at no stage have you lost your temper, you've got to admire that sort of passive aggressive behaviour after a while. i just wish you didn't need to be so extremist about everything. maybe that's how you do things in the states, and that's how you quite often end up with these whacked out people running your country! if you think it's working for you then hey, watch out everybody the NAZI'S are coming! woooooooo. boogieboogieboogieboogie. wooooooooo. oh, it's all so over the top and scary, armageddon, plagues, pestilence and conspiricies, wooooooo. the end of society as we know it! obama and his evil priest are out to get all the white people! woooooooo! you keep it going......

And it was all going suprisingly well until you kept typing...

[jbonez19]

And it was all going suprisingly well until you kept typing...

it's satire! you see? i was making a big person joke. sorry if it went over your head.

[Carlos_E]

I need to remind you guys, that the Nazi party came into power through Democratic elections under the Weimar Republic. The people there were so desperate for a CHANGE that they voted for a Nationalist party like the Nazi's. That is the danger of saying I want CHANGE and then failing to elaborate on what kind of change and in what direction and in what respect. I dont call people out to elaborate because I like to antagonize, I do it because I recognize the inherent dangers behind not doing so... Contrary to what Jbonez believes are my motivations.

If Obama is a Nazi I don't know what the hell to call McCain.

[spywizard]

he's not a nazi..

he's a socialist.. that's easy to identify..

[soccer#3]

i just think you are a crackpot who posts here instead of where it belongs, in a political chatroom, because you wouldn't last five minutes there. it's easy for you to rant here. let's be honest about it. and that's what you are, a raving madman. you must have lots of friends in your political science class. not. why don't you go and join a political discussion group and give all the members here at THE ANABOLIC STEROIDS FORUM a rest. there's a good boy

ur fuccin hilarious

[jbonez19]

i think you guys need to take a look at where all this scare-mongering and fear based extreme reactions has gotten you in the past. the sky is not going to fall in. the world is not going to end and none of the candidates are either nazi's or socialists. it's freakin' hilarious the way you guys debate politics. i must say it's been a real eye opener for me. i watch american news programs every day to try and keep up, but they really don't show how the people really think about things. i really can't wait to see who wins this one. i think it's the most important american election in a long time. go barack! thanks soccer, but if you look more closely it's this whole thread that is hilarious, all the way out shit that gets thrown around, it's so over-dramatic, it's like a bloody soap opera. that's what's comical. it's the evil subversive government who's systematically erroded away all of your human rights, put everyone in jail and tortured them versus the scary socialist african american guy and his hate talking priest coming to steal all of your money and spend it all on the lazy and greedy poor people. i mean c'mon. you guys really lap this shit up don't you. it's embarassing is what it is. and your responsible for 90% of it godfather, yeah you're keepin' everyone real informed (and shitting themselves), something to be really proud of. do they have a class where they teach drama and politics together, seems to me like you could run it. you could wear a cloak and vampire teeth, maybe some freaky contact lenses, stand on stage with fire and brimstone, lightening and shit. you know, boom, crash, bang, have a girl screaming ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. BARACK OBAMA WANT'S TO EAT YOUR CHILDREN AND COOK YOUR PETS!!!! ooooohahahahahOOOOHAHAHAHAHA!!!! that would be cool. i would go to that class.

[spywizard]

i think you guys need to take a look at where all this scare-mongering and fear based extreme reactions has gotten you in the past. the sky is not going to fall in. the world is not going to end and none of the candidates are either nazi's or socialists. it's freakin' hilarious the way you guys debate politics. i must say it's been a real eye opener for me. i watch american news programs every day to try and keep up, but they really don't show how the people really think about things. i really can't wait to see who wins this one. i think it's the most important american election in a long time. go barack!

That's your problem right there.. you listen to news agencies, and believe that the broadcasts are reporting anything other than opinions.

[jbonez19]

That's your problem right there.. you listen to news agencies, and believe that the broadcasts are reporting anything other than opinions.

c'mon man. i said i watch them, i didn't say i listen to or believe them. but you're dead right. the media seem to rarely report the real truth, it's just not "sexy" enough for ratings etc.

[brewerpi]

I'm still waiting for Rotary to post where he got those quotes from.

I don't know about a url but the first two are straight from the videos I have seen of Rev. Wright

[brewerpi]

If Obama is a Nazi I don't know what the hell to call McCain.

start with hero, and Sir.

[Carlos_E]

start with hero, and Sir.

And end with Crack pot. The guy went over seas with Lieberman acting as his in home care worker. McCain couldn't make an accurate statement without Lieberman correcting him and doing damage control.

[soccer#3]

c'mon man. i said i watch them, i didn't say i listen to or believe them. but you're dead right. the media seem to rarely report the real truth, it's just not "sexy" enough for ratings etc.

be glad u werent here a few years ago when we actually had a political/war section. man, i have seen a lot of members get banned in there. im glad they took that shit down too by the way

[thegodfather]

Well you may think it's fear mongering, but when we see certain laws passed, and certain offenses committed it's what we like to referr to as "the slippery slope." While it may start out as something which is completely benign and doesn't hurt us at the time, it is easy to think a little bit ahead and look at how a bill or an offense could EASILY be abused and able to hurt many of us.

Truth be told, we have seen many of our civil liberties erroded by the government in the last 6 years, that is not fantasy, it is reality, it is a fact. In case you were not aware, in our Constitution the 4th Amendment states

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

This means that in order for any government agencie to tap your telephone, read your mail(electronic or paper), or any other correspondance where you have an expectation of privacy, they must obtain a WARRANT. This warrant must be obtained in a United States court under Oath of affirmation. In addition, it must describe the exact places to be searched, and then the exact item or items which are to be seized. The United States government more specifically the Executive(President) branch, has been monitoring every single electronic transmission made from within this country for the last 6 years, WITHOUT a warrant, and without due process of law, with absolutely no judicial oversight. In addition to this, the telephone&internet companies were complicit in this crime as they allowed access to their servers without being presented with a warrant. This is a direct violation of the rule of law, the 4th Amendment supercedes all laws. If they do not stand up to the litmus test of the 4th Amendment, it is not a law. Now, our government wants to give these criminal telephone companies immunity from prosecution and from civil law suits seeking damages and reppartions for the offenses committed against the citizens of this country. So you tell me, what is boogeyman spooky fairy tales about this FACT?


The Constitution also states under the 6th Amendment-

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

This means, that if you are arrested, you must be charged with a crime. In the states the longest you are able to be held is 24 hours, if you are not charged you must be released. Anyway, the right to a speedy and public trial, means that if you are arrested and charged with a crime, your trial must begin within a reasonable time period (usually 3-8 months). So heres more fairy tales for you. A United States citizen of Boston, Mass., was detained on suspicion of terrorism. He was sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Once there, he was waterboarded(tortured), and held for 5 years. During that time, he was NEVER charged with a crime, and eventually they had determined that they had no evidence which could convict him of such a crime and released him. He is now attempting to sue the US government for violating his civil rights. By being tortured, it also violated his 8th amendment inalienable right against cruel&unusal punishment.

Amendment 8 - Cruel and Unusual Punishment
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."



Under the Patriot Act, these things are being "allowed," thanks to President Bush and his administration. Now, it would be very nice and neat to place the blame solely on the Bush administration, but we cannot do that. The Patriot Act is in conflict with the Constitution, and as I mentioned previously the Constitution supercedes any laws or bills passed. The Patriot Act does not stand the litmus test of the Constitution, and therefore has no legitimacy. Now normally this would have been taken care of by one of the checks&balances. However, the House of Representatives(Congress), and the Judiciary (Department of Justice), have been complicit in this massive crime against the United States people by failing to take action against it or challenge it. These are not fairy tales my friend, they are documented facts. I offer you to do the research for yourself and draw your own conclusions, but absolutely everything I said above can be verified, and I used absolutely no drama or fear mongering in the aforementioned, just cold, hard, real facts.

[jbonez19]

be glad u werent here a few years ago when we actually had a political/war section. man, i have seen a lot of members get banned in there. im glad they took that shit down too by the way

haha yeah i reckon i've gone close a couple of times. i wish i could just stay away but i can't help myself. i wish this guy would cut it out. it's a recreational forum. we're here to seek help and advice and to enjoy ourselves. arguing about politics is counter-productive to all of that imo.

[jbonez19]

Well you may think it's fear mongering, but when we see certain laws passed, and certain offenses committed it's what we like to referr to as "the slippery slope." While it may start out as something which is completely benign and doesn't hurt us at the time, it is easy to think a little bit ahead and look at how a bill or an offense could EASILY be abused and able to hurt many of us.

Truth be told, we have seen many of our civil liberties erroded by the government in the last 6 years, that is not fantasy, it is reality, it is a fact. In case you were not aware, in our Constitution the 4th Amendment states

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

This means that in order for any government agencie to tap your telephone, read your mail(electronic or paper), or any other correspondance where you have an expectation of privacy, they must obtain a WARRANT. This warrant must be obtained in a United States court under Oath of affirmation. In addition, it must describe the exact places to be searched, and then the exact item or items which are to be seized. The United States government more specifically the Executive(President) branch, has been monitoring every single electronic transmission made from within this country for the last 6 years, WITHOUT a warrant, and without due process of law, with absolutely no judicial oversight. In addition to this, the telephone&internet companies were complicit in this crime as they allowed access to their servers without being presented with a warrant. This is a direct violation of the rule of law, the 4th Amendment supercedes all laws. If they do not stand up to the litmus test of the 4th Amendment, it is not a law. Now, our government wants to give these criminal telephone companies immunity from prosecution and from civil law suits seeking damages and reppartions for the offenses committed against the citizens of this country. So you tell me, what is boogeyman spooky fairy tales about this FACT?


The Constitution also states under the 6th Amendment-

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

This means, that if you are arrested, you must be charged with a crime. In the states the longest you are able to be held is 24 hours, if you are not charged you must be released. Anyway, the right to a speedy and public trial, means that if you are arrested and charged with a crime, your trial must begin within a reasonable time period (usually 3-8 months). So heres more fairy tales for you. A United States citizen of Boston, Mass., was detained on suspicion of terrorism. He was sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Once there, he was waterboarded(tortured), and held for 5 years. During that time, he was NEVER charged with a crime, and eventually they had determined that they had no evidence which could convict him of such a crime and released him. He is now attempting to sue the US government for violating his civil rights. By being tortured, it also violated his 8th amendment inalienable right against cruel&unusal punishment.

Amendment 8 - Cruel and Unusual Punishment
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."



Under the Patriot Act, these things are being "allowed," thanks to President Bush and his administration. Now, it would be very nice and neat to place the blame solely on the Bush administration, but we cannot do that. The Patriot Act is in conflict with the Constitution, and as I mentioned previously the Constitution supercedes any laws or bills passed. The Patriot Act does not stand the litmus test of the Constitution, and therefore has no legitimacy. Now normally this would have been taken care of by one of the checks&balances. However, the House of Representatives(Congress), and the Judiciary (Department of Justice), have been complicit in this massive crime against the United States people by failing to take action against it or challenge it. These are not fairy tales my friend, they are documented facts. I offer you to do the research for yourself and draw your own conclusions, but absolutely everything I said above can be verified, and I used absolutely no drama or fear mongering in the aforementioned, just cold, hard, real facts.

SO EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THEY WERE VOTED IN FOR A SECOND TERM GENIUS!!!

[Amorphic]

SO EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THEY WERE VOTED IN FOR A SECOND TERM GENIUS!!!

dude, you need to chill out.

your posts are getting more and more insulting and irrational as you post.

if it all bothers you so much, maybe you should just leave the thread.

politics brings out the worst in people, this thread sure shows it.

[thegodfather]

Ehh...at least when Logan13 and I would have debates he behaved like a respectful adult, and not a 9 year old at recess pointing his finger and shouting insults. Oh well, enough of this nonsense, I'm gonna get carpel tunnel if I have to type anymore long winded reply's. I'm going to go make travel arrangements to move to Australia, I want to live some place with a much higher standard of living and a far superior political system than the US. Later!

[jbonez19]

dude, you need to chill out.

your posts are getting more and more insulting and irrational as you post.

if it all bothers you so much, maybe you should just leave the thread.

politics brings out the worst in people, this thread sure shows it.

i wish this thread would die, i'm being no more insulting than him constantly cutting and pasting his opinionated shit all over the lounge. if i bother you so much why don't you leave? just kidding. i was actually having a good laugh before and i've been much more insulting earlier in the thread, believe me. no bro, i'm not being irrational, some of the arguments spouted as facts in this thread have been irrational. basically if thegodfather wants to keep posting this crap in a steroid forum, lounge or elsewhere, i and hopefully others will continue to point out his lies. have you noticed that he has withdrawn to ONLY talking about things that are factual now, because people have pointed out his bullshit. before he was making all kinds of wild and unsubstantiated claims about stuff. go back to the start of the thread and have a look at what he was originally trying to say. he is a crank, and he should knock it off and got to a political forum. but he won't because it's warm and comfy for him here to spin his lies. well not while i'm around. how would he like it if i started a thread entitled "before you vote for ron paul" and started quoting inflammatory political double-talk to try and dis-credit his chosen candidate in this forum. he would pop a vein! so why should we allow him to do exactly that. i think it's actually very sneaky of him to post this stuff in the lounge like this, i wish one of the mods would call him on it to be honest. there's been several other threads. he claims that he's trying to look out for the members, but really he's just using the lounge as a "soft" place for him to spout his inflammatory rhetoric. it's a cowards act. why doesn't he go and argue in a democratic forum if he really wants to "make a difference". see, i'm chilled....