The Economy Will Collapse This September 2008!!!

[DADDYDBOL]

i got 99 problems and a...

[jsinur7]

shitty song quote is one... jay z sucks ass

[NightWolf]

I actaully like Bush, and the more influence we got around the globe the better off we are. Since now we basically own Afgainstan and Iraq, and maby soon to be Iran, once we start producing oil money would be pouring in.

With gas prices about to reach $5.00, I would like to invade another country with oil.

And i will be the first one on your doorstep when the world decides to invade your country.

[PT]

Dude, i'm about to eat, but i will be back... again you are the ignorant one... I NEVER SAID ITS BECAUSE OF OIL!!!! OIL IS being used as an example of the value of the dollar dropping... what are you not getting here... i never said the dollar is dropping because of oil... i said flat out the dollar is dropping because we keep printing it... the more you print the lower the value gets... it has nothing to do with oil and yyou are the one showing your ignorance by picking and choosing what you wanna read and dont wanna read.... OIL IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE DROPPING DOLLAR!!!! The cost of the oil has not changed, the currency it is trading in has... You are readin it backwards... the oil is an example of the dollars dropping value, NOT THE CAUSE... geez... am i talking to myself here?

what? the cost of oil has not changed? are you serious? saudia arabia just called an emergancy meeting for the top oil producing companies to figure out why the price keeps going up even after many countries expanded production

[Panzerfaust]

I have seen pics of shit that has gone in Iraq that they never report on the news.

Blackwater is the worst of them all, now they run everything..from security of Military bases to security for delegates.

[bigt10]

I actaully like Bush, and the more influence we got around the globe the better off we are. Since now we basically own Afgainstan and Iraq, and maby soon to be Iran, once we start producing oil money would be pouring in.

With gas prices about to reach $5.00, I would like to invade another country with oil.

how ignorant can one be???

Oil hasnt changed price and ya i am going to call you stupid.

The dollar has lost its value oil isnt changing price.

With that kind of attitude oil is going to be 7 $, they are going to devalue the dolalr more because thats the only way they can afford the war.

and if they dont enforce their dollar people wont use it.

so your screwed either way.

people like you can stay where you are, and dont come to canada either.


I cant wait till all the OPEC nations say they will sell Oil in not euros, BUT GRAMS OF GOLD.

The rest of the world will shortly follow and an honest monetary system of sound money people like myself could only dream of.

Here ignoramass, just to explain once again OIL has NOT CHANGED PRICE. The dollar has lost its value.

[bigt10]

I have seen pics of shit that has gone in Iraq that they never report on the news.

Blackwater is the worst of them all, now they run everything..from security of Military bases to security for delegates.

haha maybee blackwater has some lobyists that are kind to our senators who knows.

Haliburton sure does to.

[jsinur7]

what? the cost of oil has not changed? are you serious? saudia arabia just called an emergancy meeting for the top oil producing companies to figure out why the price keeps going up even after many countries expanded production

i'll refer you to the post 2 above... its because its traded in american dollars there...

[DADDYDBOL]

shitty song quote is one... jay z sucks ass

lol no silly...i was refering to the fact that i have 99 problems but you aren't one

[PT]

i'll refer you to the post 2 above... its because its traded in american dollars there...

do you realise what people pay in other countries? in belgium its sold by the liter but works out to around $9.50 a gallon. most islands in the carribean and many other european countries are the same way. im well aware of the effect of the dollar on gas but that is not the only reason its rising for us. the middle east has jacked up prices since there is a high demand from us, china and now india. china just put a new tax on there gas which means there will be less demand there and therfor our price of oil is going to drop.

[PT]

like i said i agree the dollar does play a role in this but its not only the dollar making prices hike so high like alot of you think.

[jsinur7]

lol no silly...i was refering to the fact that i have 99 problems but you aren't one

i know what you meant...

and i would hope not... i'm just here conversating... to each their own

[jsinur7]

do you realise what people pay in other countries? in belgium its sold by the liter but works out to around $9.50 a gallon. most islands in the carribean and many other european countries are the same way. im well aware of the effect of the dollar on gas but that is not the only reason its rising for us. the middle east has jacked up prices since there is a high demand from us, china and now india. china just put a new tax on there gas which means there will be less demand there and therfor our price of oil is going to drop.

you are missing the point.... it doesn't matter how much they are paying at the pumps everywhere, it matter how much they are paying from the middle east.... and the reason they are paying so much there is because the dollar has dropped so bad they have to charge more dollars to getthe same amount of profit... think of it like this, the dllar is worth a quater (just example) so now to buy the same dollar worth of gas, you have to give them 4 dollars to equal the same value they were getting for their oil last year... the oil is the same... it is so high in other countries too because no matter what country is buying the oil they HAVE TOO BUY IT in american dollars... it is only sold in american dollars... the to make up what they lost by having to pay for it in american dollars, they have to jack up the price at their pumps too... the oil is the same, its the currency it is traded in that is dropping... so you need more of it to getthe same amount of oil..

[PT]

you are missing the point.... it doesn't matter how much they are paying at the pumps everywhere, it matter how much they are paying from the middle east.... and the reason they are paying so much there is because the dollar has dropped so bad they have to charge more dollars to getthe same amount of profit... think of it like this, the dllar is worth a quater (just example) so now to buy the same dollar worth of gas, you have to give them 4 dollars to equal the same value they were getting for their oil last year... the oil is the same... it is so high in other countries too because no matter what country is buying the oil they HAVE TOO BUY IT in american dollars... it is only sold in american dollars... the to make up what they lost by having to pay for it in american dollars, they have to jack up the price at their pumps too... the oil is the same, its the currency it is traded in that is dropping... so you need more of it to getthe same amount of oil..

your not understanding and if i had the time i would explain but i dont. the price of the dollar does effect oil prices but that is just a small fraction of why prices are up around $145 a barrel. maybe im reading you wrong but are you saying that the weak dollar is the only reason for high crude oil prices? if so your highly mistaken

[jsinur7]

your not understanding and if i had the time i would explain but i dont. the price of the dollar does effect oil prices but that is just a small fraction of why prices are up around $145 a barrel. maybe im reading you wrong but are you saying that the weak dollar is the only reason for high crude oil prices? if so your highly mistaken

you keep saying its wrong, but dont say what else it is...

then give us your reasons... i'm always ready to listen.. if you're right, i have no problem saying so...

[jsinur7]

i'm sorry man, but as we said already and have shown you the chart, oil has not changed.... it still trades for nearly the exact amount it always had if you bought it with gold... only difference is the currency... if you read the chart above youwill see that the price of oil in gold has barely moved either way, and all currency is based on gold... OIL HAS NOT CHANGED... the currency has... everything is based off gold, and if it trades for the same amount of gold as it always has, then oil has not changed at all... the currency value has fallen, not the oil value rising...

[jsinur7]

the cost of oil is nearly exactly the same today, if not less then it was before 9/11... you have to stop looking at dollars wich is whats confusing you... gold is the standard... and when traded in gold, oil has not changed at all no different today then when the gas at the pump was 2 bucks a gallon in 2001...

bush is an oil tycoon... he keeps destroying the dollar the oil prices go up (NOT ITS VALUE)... he pockets millions from the oil, and when he gets out of office and the economy comes back, all the money he pocketed is worth 5 times what it was and he is 5 times richer (not exact numbers of course...)

[PT]

An important contributor to price increases has been the slow down in oil supply growth, which has continued since oil production surpassed new discoveries in 1980. The fact that global oil production will decline at some point, leading to lower supply is the main long-term fundamental cause of rising prices. This is because there is a limited amount of fossil fuel, and the remaining accessible supply is consumed more rapidly each year. Increasingly, remaining reserves become more technically difficult to extract and therefore more expensive. Eventually, reserves will only be economically feasible to extract at extremely high prices. It is thought by many, including energy economists such as Matthew Simmons, that prices could continue to rise indefinitely until a new market equilibrium is reached at which point supply satisfies worldwide demand.
Although there is contention about the exact timing and form of peak oil, there are now very few parties who do not acknowledge that the concept of a production peak is valid - though before the present energy crisis some commentators argued that global warming awareness and new energy sources means that demand may fall before supply, making reserve depletion a non-issue.
In addition, turbulence in the Middle East, the world's largest oil-producing region, has led to decreased exports, especially civil unrest in Iraq after the 2003 US invasion. Outside the Middle East, Venuzuela has experienced strikes and political turbulence, and there is growing instability in West Aferica.
Alternatively, lower production rates may be due to the fact that oil's historically high ratio of Energy Returned on Energy Invested continues a significant decline. The increased price of oil also makes other, non-conventional source of oil attractive to businesses. The most prominent example of this are the massive reserves of the Canadian tar sands. They are a far less cost-efficient source of heavy, low-grade oil than conventional crude, but with oil trading above $60/bbl, the tar sands have become very attractive to exploration and production companies. Recent months have seen billions of dollars invested in the tar sands.
In view of tighter supplies worldwide, terrorist and insurgent groups have increasingly targeted oil and gas installations to maximize both mayhem and political gains. Sometimes, such attacks are perpetrated by militias in regions where oil wealth has produced few tangible benefits for the local citizenry, as is the case in the Niger delta. The terror factor adds an additional premium, including insurance costs, to the price of oil.
Even if total oil supply does not decline, increasing numbers of experts believe the easily accessible sources of light crude are almost exhusted and in the future the world will depend on more expensive sources of heavy oil and renewable energy sources. Until the rises of 2008, Cera (a consulting company wholly owned by energy consultants IHS energy) did not believe this would be such an immediate problem. However, in an interview with the wall street jornul, Daniel Yergin, best known for his quotes that the price of oil would soon return down to 'normal', has publicly amended the company's position on May 7th 2008, and now expects oil to reach $150 during 2008, due to tightness of supply. This reversal of opinion is significant, as CERA, among other consultancies, provide price projections that are used by many official bodies to plan long term strategy in respect of energy mix and price, so the impact of a misprediction is far wider than might otherwise be expected. In contrast, some other organisations, such as the (IEA), had already been much less optimistic in their assessments for some time .
While efforts are underway to increase supply, for example through a number of new mines in canada's tar sands region which is estimated to contain as much "heavy" oil as all the world's reserves of "conventional" oil, such efforts lag behind the increasing demand of recent years. Regulation and environmental efforts have also increased the shortage and price of oil.

[sooners04]

how ignorant can one be???

Oil hasnt changed price and ya i am going to call you stupid.

The dollar has lost its value oil isnt changing price.

With that kind of attitude oil is going to be 7 $, they are going to devalue the dolalr more because thats the only way they can afford the war.

and if they dont enforce their dollar people wont use it.

so your screwed either way.

people like you can stay where you are, and dont come to canada either.


I cant wait till all the OPEC nations say they will sell Oil in not euros, BUT GRAMS OF GOLD.

The rest of the world will shortly follow and an honest monetary system of sound money people like myself could only dream of.

Here ignoramass, just to explain once again OIL has NOT CHANGED PRICE. The dollar has lost its value.

All you have to do is go to yahoo.com and click on the finance link and they talk about how the price of oil is always rising. As some one who plays the stock market I can tell you that oil keeps going up and the stocks reflect that.

[PT]

All you have to do is go to yahoo.com and click on the finance link and they talk about how the price of oil is always rising. As some one who plays the stock market I can tell you that oil keeps going up and the stocks reflect that.

thank you

[jsinur7]

PRICE!!!! not value... PRICE IS CURRENCY... not oil... if your not gonna follow the gold standard then we're just gonna have to agree to disagree... you are agreeing with us while telling us we're wrong... the cost of oil has not gone up by any significant increase since before 9/11 and it's value in gold reflects that... the currency value drops so you need more of it to pay for the same amount of oil... if the amount of gold needed to purchase oil does not change, then its the curraencies value that is makeing the prices go up... it cant bemade any simpler then that... you are agreeing with us while telling us we're wrong cause you miss the point that value and cost is not the same....

all i'm gonna say is EVERYTHING on earth has a value and its based on gold... the oils value in gold has not changed... PERIOD. Everything you stated causes MINOR fluctuations in the oils gold value... the rising cost of oil is due to CURRENCY falling value... so from here on out, we'll just agree to disagree...

[Ajc330]

jsinur7 great thread! sorry i have nothing to contribute

[PT]

PRICE!!!! not value... PRICE IS CURRENCY... not oil... if your not gonna follow the gold standard then we're just gonna have to agree to disagree... you are agreeing with us while telling us we're wrong... the cost of oil has not gone up by any significant increase since before 9/11 and it's value in gold reflects that... the currency value drops so you need more of it to pay for the same amount of oil... if the amount of gold needed to purchase oil does not change, then its the curraencies value that is makeing the prices go up... it cant bemade any simpler then that... you are agreeing with us while telling us we're wrong cause you miss the point that value and cost is not the same....

all i'm gonna say is EVERYTHING on earth has a value and its based on gold... the oils value in gold has not changed... PERIOD. Everything you stated causes MINOR fluctuations in the oils gold value... the rising cost of oil is due to CURRENCY falling value... so from here on out, we'll just agree to disagree...

i have no problem with disagreeing, its what makes this board great. we dont fight we debate and in the end both sides usually walk away with more knowledge

[jsinur7]

jsinur7 great thread! sorry i have nothing to contribute

thanks man... seems the topic in it changes as we go, but its always nice to debate and converse and even just down right argue... it's all in good fun and respect though... hey, just readin it's contributing if you learnanything from it to pass on...

[jsinur7]

i have no problem with disagreeing, its what makes this board great. we dont fight we debate and in the end both sides usually walk away with more knowledge

this is very true... i have learned many things in this thread and in all the others... it is fun indeed... BUT I WIN!!! then i hit ya when your down ... lol... nah... no winners, just shared knowledge... great conversing with you

[Kratos]

how ignorant can one be???

Oil hasnt changed price and ya i am going to call you stupid.

The dollar has lost its value oil isnt changing price.

With that kind of attitude oil is going to be 7 $, they are going to devalue the dolalr more because thats the only way they can afford the war.

and if they dont enforce their dollar people wont use it.

so your screwed either way.

people like you can stay where you are, and dont come to canada either.


I cant wait till all the OPEC nations say they will sell Oil in not euros, BUT GRAMS OF GOLD.

The rest of the world will shortly follow and an honest monetary system of sound money people like myself could only dream of.

Here ignoramass, just to explain once again OIL has NOT CHANGED PRICE. The dollar has lost its value.

Dude you have a real hard on for the gold standard...that's fine, but it isn't perfect. Ever look at the reasons why we went away from it??? People taking pay cuts every year and such. The economy wasn't doing well under the gold standard. Gold isn't perfect and value isn't consistent, it's subject to global demand just like any commodity, just like the dollar. Backing money by gold doesn't help much, and also drives up the price of gold. What problems does it solve besides limiting the amount of control policy makers have over the money supply? The price of gold has also gone up in relation to the dollar due to labor costs, energy costs, ect. ect., in addition to monetary policy. This isn't the 1800's anymore where some hillbilly goes up into the woods and pulls out a potato sized nugget, a lot of energy goes into the process. Trust me, oil is going up and it's going to become a problem for the economy...it comes from the ground, at some point it becomes possible to use more than you can pump at a time, anybody who thinks different is silly. Gold standard isn't going to ensure the supply for oil, and oil is vital to today's economy. Although the war in Iraq is a misguided attempt to do so, and is sending the dollar lower no doubt, it was designed to ensure the flow of oil. Think we care about the people? Take away the oil and you've got central Africa and nobody cares.

The key is energy alternatives, independence from foreign oil. Production in the economy. Two tough things to achieve.

BTW a friend of mine who I ride bicycle with every week has a safe full of gold Krugerrand. They look fawkin sweet. He figures if shit hits the fan, he'll still have money. Not to mention he litters the house with guns and has enough ammo to start a war.

[Kratos]

I cant wait till all the OPEC nations say they will sell Oil in not euros, BUT GRAMS OF GOLD.

How's that gonna work? The gold is no more useful to them then the oil. Trading one comodity for another makes no sense. Gotta convert it to money to spend it. It just creates another layer of paperwork, not to mention huge inflation in gold prices.

[RuhlFreak55]

well if this does happen i'm goin back home and me and my bros are gonna carve out our own little kingdom.

[Kratos]

all i'm gonna say is EVERYTHING on earth has a value and its based on gold... the oils value in gold has not changed... ..

Huh, what makes gold so special? Scarcity of something with regard for the willingness of people to pay for it is what determines value..ie supply and demand. Gold is no different and it's value is also free floating.

What happens when oil becomes more difficult to pull from the ground than the gold? The price will go up in gold. Throwing a bunch of gold in a vault somewhere doesn't make the economy run any smoother.

[jsinur7]

Huh, what makes gold so special? Scarcity of something with regard for the willingness of people to pay for it is what determines value..ie supply and demand. Gold is no different and it's value is also free floating.

What happens when oil becomes more difficult to pull from the ground than the gold? The price will go up in gold. Throwing a bunch of gold in a vault somewhere doesn't make the economy run any smoother.

i didnt create the system, its just the way it is... i dont get the value of gold anymore then i get paying thousands of dollars for an engagement ring... FOR WHAT? it serves no purpose... just vanity

ya ask me fresh water has more value to me then gold... it has a purpose for life...

[Kratos]

i didnt create the system, its just the way it is... i dont get the value of gold anymore then i get paying thousands of dollars for an engagement ring... FOR WHAT? it serves no purpose... just vanity

ya ask me fresh water has more value to me then gold... it has a purpose for life...

You're missing my point dude, yeah gold is shiny and people like it. It's easy to display it's value in fairly small units, it has a long shelf life, and looks awesome when you stack bricks of it in a vault. But...you could base the economy on bussels of wheat if you wanted to, it's like the same thing as the gold standard, there just is no point.

Dollar isn't losing value for no reason, and if we were on the gold standard we'd be moving gold out of our vault and into china and japan and other nations we have a trade deficit with. You end up re-normalizing the face value of the currency to less gold, it doesn't solve any problems.

[Blackster1975]

The worlds f****D up, the US and UK are heading for dark times, we look like were going into a reccession over here.

[jsinur7]

You're missing my point dude, yeah gold is shiny and people like it. It's easy to display it's value in fairly small units, it has a long shelf life, and looks awesome when you stack bricks of it in a vault. But...you could base the economy on bussels of wheat if you wanted to, it's like the same thing as the gold standard, there just is no point.

Dollar isn't losing value for no reason, and if we were on the gold standard we'd be moving gold out of our vault and into china and japan and other nations we have a trade deficit with. You end up re-normalizing the face value of the currency to less gold, it doesn't solve any problems.

fact of the matter is you have an ounce of gold in your hand, you have an ounce of gold... nothings gonna change it.... and no matter how hard they try, there is only so much out there... they can print dollars till their hearts content... its worthless paper...

my point is, NO, NOT HAVE EVERYONE WALK AROUND WITH GOLD IN THEIR POCKETS, but give the dollar a set amount of gold it represents... it should alwyas ALWAYS represent the same amount of gold...

and we would never hand over our gold, they'd have dollars that represent that amount of gold available for spending within our country or trading with other countries... what makes you think we'd give them our gold?

[Kratos]

what makes you think we'd give them our gold?

cause it becomes their gold under a trade deficit. The money doesn't just promise any gold, it promises our gold. We can only print as much money as gold we have, hence it's backed by gold. If they have the $$$ they own the gold.

[jsinur7]

cause it becomes their gold under a trade deficit. The money doesn't just promise any gold, it promises our gold. We can only print as much money as gold we have, hence it's backed by gold. If they have the $$$ they own the gold.

thats exactly how it is now... but they'd have to go to war to actually get that gold... going to gold standard (standardizing the dollar to a specific amount of gold) wont change anything in that respect, just give us stability... and yes gold value goes up and down, but nothing like just printing dollars out of thin air...

[Kratos]

The only way to establish a value equivelent to gold is to be willing to exchange the money in paper for gold, and to do that you need to own the gold. once you don't have the paper money and china has it, it's essentially an iou for the gold in your vaults. They can freely exchange and take their gold and do what they want with it. Shipments of gold would not be uncommon, and were not uncommon under the previous gold standard.

[jsinur7]

cause it becomes their gold under a trade deficit. The money doesn't just promise any gold, it promises our gold. We can only print as much money as gold we have, hence it's backed by gold. If they have the $$$ they own the gold.

and thats where your wrong, we can only print as much money as gold we have if we go back to gold standard... right now we just keep printing it and printing it and printing it... wich is why when i was a kid a quater bought 2 candy bars, and now one candy bar cost 1.50... if that was gold standard, it be the same price unless supply of the chocalate changed..

[jsinur7]

The only way to establish a value equivelent to gold is to be willing to exchange the money in paper for gold, and to do that you need to own the gold. once you don't have the paper money and china has it, it's essentially an iou for the gold in your vaults.

that only happens within our borders... our trade deficits is no different then gift certificates at the mall... you cant trade them in for cash, only services and goods... we would never give up our gold...

[Kratos]

and thats where your wrong, we can only print as much money as gold we have if we go back to gold standard... right now we just keep printing it and printing it and printing it... wich is why when i was a kid a quater bought 2 candy bars, and now one candy bar cost 1.50... if that was gold standard, it be the same price unless supply of the chocalate changed..

no, I understand that, I know our money is backed by nothing now, I was saying if we went back to the gold standard. I'm saying the gold standard is no good, and no reason for it. What we do now is the best way, it's just a matter of policy makers making the right choices when it comes to the money supply.

[jsinur7]

no, I understand that, I know our money is backed by nothing now, I was saying if we went back to the gold standard. I'm saying the gold standard is no good, and no reason for it. What we do now is the best way, it's just a matter of policy makers making the right choices when it comes to the money supply.

if i work for a dollar, i had a prearranged value for my work, my reward should have the same value 10 years from now...
i'm just not following your reasoning... to each their own i guess...