anti-depressent

**boxer08** · 09-15-2008, 04:42 AM

So, do you think they will worsen palpatations?

**DSM4Life** · 09-15-2008, 04:48 AM

I personally would go without the med and seek counseling first.

**boxer08** · 09-15-2008, 04:59 AM

ok, i just done the online Goldberg's depression test and scored 70.

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

I personally would go without the med and seek counseling first.

dsm wins the gold medal......meds are a LAST resort only......never use them unless you've exhausted every other avenue

Originally Posted by boxer08

ok, i just done the online Goldberg's depression test and scored 70.

and that means?

**0tolerance** · 09-15-2008, 09:23 AM

Ive talked to naturopath friend of mine and he said that if you lack certain vitamins from your diet and you become deficient this can cause insomnia, mood swings, depression and all the bad stuff.

so if your looking to avoid the pills and docs, just go see a naturopath, its not that expensive and i guess you can make your own mind up on whether his/her medicine will work for you better or not.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

please tell me that was a joke.......doctors don't know shit. I can without a doubt say i will never take a drug to feel better just because someone told me to, that moron isn't in your life, he doesn't know you.....doctors just treat symptoms, they don't fix a goddamn thing

Then it sounds to me like you souldn't ever take any drugs to feel better.

BTW do you take steroids ? Do you take them to feel WORSE? lol

Just because you are strongly opposed to taking pills does not make you qualified to dispense medical advice dude.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 04:16 PM

Is it better to live a life 'with symptoms' or 'without symptoms' ?

Do you believe in doing a cost benefit analysis?

Does your time factor into that? (taking a pill takes 2 seconds/day) I hear (and actually know) that deep meditation can help one to deal effectively with pain. Does that mean that if I choose to have a medication after a surgery and not use meditation that I am a bad person or something?

Medication is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a moral issue.

**DSM4Life** · 09-15-2008, 04:58 PM

I understand where you are coming from 40plus but on the flip side are you trying to say that doctors never incorrectly medicate a person by either mistake or neglect ?

Its is a tool but IMO a tool that should be used when all else fails.

My doc when i was younger use to give me antibiotic every time i went to him when i was sick or feeling ill. What did i do with the scripts ? Threw them in the trash can. Even as i child i felt i didn't need this pills. I went to him to make sure it wasn't life threating and after that i let my body do the rest.

Years later i now read that people who take too many antibiotics can actually decrease the efficiency of the pill as the body start to build up immunities to the drug. So when you really need help it could fail to do its job 100%.

**Peducho0113** · 09-15-2008, 05:11 PM

Only you how you really feel, for me personally Intidepresants have save my life. The other thing is that they work different for everyone and people how have not suffer from clinical depression can only imagine how bad one feels.

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by 0tolerance

Ive talked to naturopath friend of mine and he said that if you lack certain vitamins from your diet and you become deficient this can cause insomnia, mood swings, depression and all the bad stuff.

so if your looking to avoid the pills and docs, just go see a naturopath, its not that expensive and i guess you can make your own mind up on whether his/her medicine will work for you better or not.

i've been to one of them.....she's a genius lol. And there's no drugs, just supplements to help your body do what it needs to to.....your body can ALWAYS heal itself given the right tools

**stallion_1** · 09-15-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

i've been to one of them.....she's a genius lol. And there's no drugs, just supplements to help your body do what it needs to to.....your body can ALWAYS heal itself given the right tools

there's my sidekick

**JiGGaMaN** · 09-15-2008, 06:16 PM

Ask your doctor what the minimum therapeutic dosage is (20mg), then ask him why he scripted you 10mg. I want to hear what he has to say.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

I understand where you are coming from 40plus but on the flip side are you trying to say that doctors never incorrectly medicate a person by either mistake or neglect ?

Its is a tool but IMO a tool that should be used when all else fails.

My doc when i was younger use to give me antibiotic every time i went to him when i was sick or feeling ill. What did i do with the scripts ? Threw them in the trash can. Even as i child i felt i didn't need this pills. I went to him to make sure it wasn't life threating and after that i let my body do the rest.

Years later i now read that people who take too many antibiotics can actually decrease the efficiency of the pill as the body start to build up immunities to the drug. So when you really need help it could fail to do its job 100%.

And when I was young child doctors gave me medicine, sometimes in the ER, frequently while an inpatient, and all the time when I was an outpatient, without which I would be dead. I came close to dying many times prior to the age of 12, it was medicine which prevented my death.

Doctors do what they are trained to do. Then are obviously not omnicient, nor can they know the future. Hundreds of years ago doctors put leeches on people to cure them and did operations without any conception of infection. But generally speaking they are very smart people.

I am not avocating that people blindly follow doctor's advice. If I did that I would be telling everyone here, myself included, to trash your steroids because they are bad for you.

All I am saying is that medication is a tool. If your preference is to turn to that tool after exploring every other option first, that's cool with me. I don't want to control the way you manage your life or your health.

But if another person chooses to use medication, it is simply a tool they are using to get a desired result. That's it. There are a lot of people who don't understand what it is like to suffer a living hell on a daily basis under the roof of their own parents who are supposed to love, care for, protect, teach and guide them. They don't understand how much a persons life (and brain) can be warped by this type of life.

People understand that sometimes combat vets come back from seeing horrors of war and they are friggin messed up BAD. Well, they went over there in an adult (albeit young) body, with an adult mind.

For a 2 year old to suffer trauma at the hands of their caretakers causes the same type of problems, and the 2 year old only has the brain of a 2 year old, they don't have the ability to understand or rantionalize really ANYTHING. Plus as a child their brain, social functioning, and psychological functioning is still just at the beginning stages of being formed. Day after day of that and by the time your a teenager your screwed. I should have been seeing a psychiatrist when I was 19, but due to my childhood, I was soooo scared of people and did not trust anyone I could not bring myself to sit down with someone and tell them my problems. It's hard to explain in a brief format such as this, but it's like a pet dog that has been kicked and neglected and beat by it's owners daily. It doesn't matter if your the best person in the wrold and want to treat the dog better than anyone else ever would... that dog is NOT going to trust you. It's going to snarl and run away.

I knew I needed a psychiatrist at 19 but due to my past trauma I used other (mal-distructive) ways of coping with my difficulties.

When you go through something like that your brain is so out of whack compared to the average person it isn't even funny (and this is not even taking into consideration the life threatening illlness I was afflicted with and suffered with for years).

Would you tell a combat vet who obviously way out there "dude, just exercise"? I mean you could but if it was that simple there would be no people with problems in this world.

I'm a social worker and have worked as a drug and alcohol counselor and worked with homeless people and also ex-cons, and hardcore ones sometimes. Multiple armed robberies, a couple with manslaughter convictions, drug trafficing, assualt with deadly weapons.... you name it. People like that are VERY different than some average dude who has a fairly normal life and has had a fair/normal childhood and is a little sad or has a couple issues.....

So I just think when people offer advice to others that ammounts to 'stay away from meds they just treat the symptoms'.... if they don't have the knowledge and training, the understanding and background to know the vast differences between people who are recommended to take something like an anti-depressant... they can be doing the person a disservices potentially (they also could be doing the person a serive, depending on the individuals circumstances, I grant that). But the bottom line is that there is not enough information availble to determine if it's good advice or bad advice to avoid the meds.

I think your advice of seeing a counselor first is very sound. Maybe the dude can get his issues sorted out in 5-6 months without meds and be better off for it. But the downside is the time lost and the quality of life will potentially be lower during that 5-6 months.

50 years ago alcoholics were highly stigmatized. Now it is more accepeted that 'just saying no' doesn't friggin work in the vast majority of cases.

IMO pills are on the SAME level of intervention as other interventions like seeing a social worker or a psychologist. Taking pills is not 'worse' IMO. I don't like to see pills stigmatized because in some cases peoples lives are at stake. And if your on the outside looking in and really don't see the degree of problems that people suffer with and give advice that serves to steer people away from considering medication you can be doing them a disservice IMO.

In the end I think that individuals sould educate themselves about all their options, ask lots of questions, and make their own decisions.... learn from them and evolve their plan as they find out what works and what doesn't FOR THEM based on their own particular case and their own particular preferences.

Hope that makes sense. I know it was long winded.

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by 40plusnewbie

50 years ago alcoholics were highly stigmatized. Now it is more accepeted that 'just saying no' doesn't friggin work in the vast majority of cases.

that's a joke and a half......only the weak and pathetic can't say no

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by 40plusnewbie

IMO pills are on the SAME level of intervention as other interventions like seeing a social worker or a psychologist. Taking pills is not 'worse' IMO. I don't like to see pills stigmatized because in some cases peoples lives are at stake. And if your on the outside looking in and really don't see the degree of problems that people suffer with and give advice that serves to steer people away from considering medication you can be doing them a disservice IMO.

rofl that's exactly why they should be avoided....because your life is at stake.....the side effects of any prescription are rarely ever worth the benefits....especially when you can just do a little work or give your body the nutrients it needs and you'll be fine

**DSM4Life** · 09-15-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by 40plusnewbie

And when I was young child doctors gave me medicine, sometimes in the ER, frequently while an inpatient, and all the time when I was an outpatient, without which I would be dead. I came close to dying many times prior to the age of 12, it was medicine which prevented my death.

Doctors do what they are trained to do. Then are obviously not omnicient, nor can they know the future. Hundreds of years ago doctors put leeches on people to cure them and did operations without any conception of infection. But generally speaking they are very smart people.

I am not avocating that people blindly follow doctor's advice. If I did that I would be telling everyone here, myself included, to trash your steroids because they are bad for you.

All I am saying is that medication is a tool. If your preference is to turn to that tool after exploring every other option first, that's cool with me. I don't want to control the way you manage your life or your health.

But if another person chooses to use medication, it is simply a tool they are using to get a desired result. That's it. There are a lot of people who don't understand what it is like to suffer a living hell on a daily basis under the roof of their own parents who are supposed to love, care for, protect, teach and guide them. They don't understand how much a persons life (and brain) can be warped by this type of life.

People understand that sometimes combat vets come back from seeing horrors of war and they are friggin messed up BAD. Well, they went over there in an adult (albeit young) body, with an adult mind.

For a 2 year old to suffer trauma at the hands of their caretakers causes the same type of problems, and the 2 year old only has the brain of a 2 year old, they don't have the ability to understand or rantionalize really ANYTHING. Day after day of that and by the time your a teenager your screwed. I should have been seeing a psychiatrist when I was 19, but due to my childhood, I was soooo scared of people and did not trust anyone I could not bring myself to sit down with someone and tell them my problems. It's hard to explain in a brief format such as this, but it's like a pet dog that has been kicked and neglected and beat by it's owners daily. It doesn't matter if your the best person in the wrold and want to treat the dog better than anyone else ever would... that dog is NOT going to trust you. It's going to snarl and run away.

I knew I needed a psychiatrist at 19 but due to my past trauma I used other (mal-distructive) ways of coping with my difficulties.

When you go through something like that your brain is so out of whack compared to the average person it isn't even funny (and this is not even taking into consideration the life threatening illlness I was afflicted with and suffered with for years).

Would you tell a combat vet who obviously way out there "dude, just exercise"? I mean you could but if it was that simple there would be no people with problems in this world.

I'm a social worker and have worked as a drug and alcohol counselor and worked with homeless people and also ex-cons, and hardcore ones sometimes. Multiple armed robberies, a couple with manslaughter convictions, drug trafficing, assualt with deadly weapons.... you name it. People like that are VERY different than some average dude who has a fairly normal life and has had a fair/normal childhood and is a little sad or has a couple issues.....

So I just think when people offer advice to others that ammounts to 'stay away from meds they just treat the symptoms'.... if they don't have the knowledge and training, the understanding and background to know the vast differences between people who are recommended to take something like an anti-depressant... they can be doing the person a disservices potentially (they also could be doing the person a serive, depending on the individuals circumstances, I grant that). But the bottom line is that there is not enough information availble to determine if it's good advice or bad advice to avoid the meds.

I think your advice of seeing a counselor first is very sound. Maybe the dude can get his issues sorted out in 5-6 months without meds and be better off for it. But the downside is the time lost and the quality of life will potentially be lower during that 5-6 months.

50 years ago alcoholics were highly stigmatized. Now it is more accepeted that 'just saying no' doesn't friggin work in the vast majority of cases.

IMO pills are on the SAME level of intervention as other interventions like seeing a social worker or a psychologist. Taking pills is not 'worse' IMO. I don't like to see pills stigmatized because in some cases peoples lives are at stake. And if your on the outside looking in and really don't see the degree of problems that people suffer with and give advice that serves to steer people away from considering medication you can be doing them a disservice IMO.

In the end I think that individuals sould educate themselves about all their options, ask lots of questions, and make their own decisions.... learn from them and evolve their plan as they find out what works and what doesn't FOR THEM based on their own particular case and their own particular preferences.

Hope that makes sense. I know it was long winded.

I agree. He asked our opinions and we gave it.

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

I agree. He asked our opinions and we gave it.

i agree with that too.....just doesn't seem like with the rest of the post he's really preaching education, because the educated person knows that prescription meds are not good for you, there are always side effects, many times worse than the purported disease you're trying to treat

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

i agree with that too.....just doesn't seem like with the rest of the post he's really preaching education, because the educated person knows that prescription meds are not good for you, there are always side effects, many times worse than the purported disease you're trying to treat

Do you take steroids ? If so I think your post makes you a hyppocryte. There are pros and cons to just about everything. I think your looking at the issue through colored lenses.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 07:55 PM

Ruhl, also please educate me on why reducing symptoms that are negatively afffecting ones quality of life is a BAD THING. Thanks.

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by 40plusnewbie

Ruhl, also please educate me on why reducing symptoms that are negatively afffecting ones quality of life is a BAD THING. Thanks.

simply because of the other symptoms that are side effects of the drugs and more threatening to one's health

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by 40plusnewbie

Do you take steroids? If so I think your post makes you a hyppocryte. There are pros and cons to just about everything. I think your looking at the issue through colored lenses.

you can think what you want......he asked for adivce and i'm giving it. I have my opinions. and yes i take steroids , very different in my view.

**JiGGaMaN** · 09-15-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

i agree with that too.....just doesn't seem like with the rest of the post he's really preaching education, because the educated person knows that prescription meds are not good for you, there are always side effects, many times worse than the purported disease you're trying to treat

Lets hear some examples of medications in which many cases the side effects are worse than the benefits. That doesnt even make sense.

**RuhlFreak55** · 09-15-2008, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by JiGGaMaN

Lets hear some examples of medications in which many cases the side effects are worse than the benefits. That doesnt even make sense.

i know a girl on some antidepressant at the moment that makes it so she can't orgasm........that's ****ed up.....i'd rather die than not be able to orgasm.

**Bojangles69** · 09-15-2008, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by boxer08

Thanks to everyone for more replys they help alot. I aslo went through a phase of binge drinking every weekend from the ages of 13-16 then i had anxiety and after the anxiety i didn't drink much and now i aint touched any since new year. I wish i could get back in the gym it really helps alot but due what ever is wrong with my shoulders i cant. The rule in my doctors is you can only have 8 mins but you can book 20.

Yeh this is why I can't wait to prescribe my own meds lol, I'm too passionate about how many people are walking around fvcked up or on the wrong meds because they are just misled by so many different opinions on what is right, wrong, moral or should just be 'toughed out' in life.

This is why in reality, the ultimate responsibility is your own, and viewing your daily emotional well being as objectively as possible.
You know what I did that was really insightful? (among a lot of other things).

Go on ebay and get one of those journals for w/e you think you have, anxiety, depression, social anxiety, panic disorder, etc.
You mark your anxiety/depression at different levels throughout the day and in different environments.

Because the real problem is people who have these disorders KNOW somethings wrong but DON'T always know how wrong it is. People here say they can't live with out their ssris but chances are them coming to that decision could have taken them 10 years just to realize.

Don't freak out or make a big deal about it, you're actually lucky to get prescribed one of best (my biased opinion) meds out there for anxiety/depression compared to some of the other junk they could have thrown you on.
But get a journal and just check numbers throughout the day. After a month you'll get a REAL good idea where you stand.
You can take an anxiety/depression assesment test but your mood when you take them can affect the results so try a journal.

**Bojangles69** · 09-15-2008, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by JiGGaMaN

Lets hear some examples of medications in which many cases the side effects are worse than the benefits. That doesnt even make sense.

I'm starting to think ruhl needs to sign up for like a psych 101 class next semester.
That literally sounded to me like someone coming here asking if they can drink winny.

**Bojangles69** · 09-15-2008, 09:09 PM

10 rep bars for 40plusnewbie.

Me & that guy got off on a bad foot but he is right on the head with a lot of his shit.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

simply because of the other symptoms that are side effects of the drugs and more threatening to one's health

So you have done some sort of analysis of all the drugs out there and know this for a fact?

I take anti-depressants and the pro's definately outway the cons. What am I missing? What do you know about my particular circumstances in order to make such a claim?

Don't you think the worse someones symptoms are the more leeway there should be regarding tolerating side effects? (which I really have none basically).

People take steroids and f with they hormones and their balls shrink and your cool with this but because someone might feel a little tired taking an anti depressant for the first month you make some blanket assessment that it's always wrong?

**Bojangles69** · 09-15-2008, 10:02 PM

ahaaa if thats not owned i dont know what is.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

you can think what you want......he asked for adivce and i'm giving it. I have my opinions. and yes i take steroids, very different in my view.

They are both drugs. They both have pros and cons. Anti depressants treat ppl with a poor or very poor quality of life, frequently with thoughs of hopelessness, an impending feeling of doom, crying bouts frequently, no energy, staying in bed all day, not interacting with others, a very poor quality of life.

People who take steroids can have a great quality of life without them and they are not treating a deficiency at all. It's advocated here to take steroids to make your body do things that it's not designed to do (push beyond your genetic limits). There are some concerning and sometimes permanent side effects as well.

So your down on some poor schmuch who wakes up with thoughs of dread every day, going through work with no energy, negative thoughs, negative emotions...all of which effect their ability to have meaningful relationships and have a sucky life in general....and simply by taking a pill that is washed away.... but someone who has a good life and feels good and has friends and relationships and feels good and has no problems with negative thoughts and they take a drug to make their body do something that it was not designed to do...with some concerning side effects like balding and growing tits and that 's cool?

Doesn't add up to me dude. I'm not trying to pick a fight and don't think negatively at all about you, just having a discussion. But it would seem to me that taking anti-depressants does a lot more good for a lot of people than taking steroids does.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bojangles69

10 rep bars for 40plusnewbie.

Me & that guy got off on a bad foot but he is right on the head with a lot of his shit.

Glad to hear it dude, thanks. I don't recall the getting off on a bad foot thing (probably best you don't remind me lol, no sense in bringing up negative shizat-unless I gave you some crap or something, then please feel free to post it or pm me... I want to get along with ppl here. I'm here to learn and improve myself. You guys are the experts here re: steroids , lifting, nutrition, etc... I'm a fat middle aged man working his ass off to make major changes in his life.

Peace

**thegodfather** · 09-15-2008, 10:22 PM

People who genuinely need to take SSRI's, SNRI's, and Atypicals are just like anyone who needs to take anti-biotics to treat a bacterial infection, or people who take chemotherapy for cancer. No difference what so ever. There is a biological problem which can be treated with drugs.

That being said, they most certainly are over prescribed. The reason being that the allopathic approach is to treat symptoms with drugs or surgery. There is nothing wrong with this, but this is not the whole picture. The biopsychosocial model views the mind and body as linked, whereas most allopaths will view the body as a seperate entity that can be treated. An allopath will believe that there is a biological problem within the brain and that no amount of therapy will be able to alter that.

The problem is that there is no blood test or other diagnostic technique which can effectively say what chemicals are being taken up too quickly (reuptake inhibitor). So whether it is Serotonin, Norepinephrine, or both, is anyones GUESS. That is what MD's do, they prescribe you a medication which they hope will treat the right chemical problem, and if it doesn't work they'll switch you to a different medication. This is often the hardest part for people with chronic depression or anxiety, finding a medication which effectively treats their symptoms with minimum side effects.

I'd avise anyone is this situation to seek treatment from a licensed psychiatrist FIRST, and explore the option of drugs as a LAST RESORT. However, if your condition is so debilitating that you are unable to perform certain functions in your life then I would recognize the drugs as a viable option. You might also seek an intermediate drug which can be a bridge/facilitator to treatment, such as xanex on an as needed basis. This can get you over the hump so to speak while you begin treatment and give the therapy time to work.

From the sound of Boxer's condition, he is just down because his health is not in great order right now. In this case if the problem can just be rectified then I am confident his secondary symptoms like the depression will subside greatly. On a side note, the UK's health system must really suck if you're waiting 3 months for the results of an EKG, glad you haven't gone into cardiac arrest yet if there was anything legitimately wrong, not that you'd know it.

**40plusnewbie** · 09-15-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

People who genuinely need to take SSRI's, SNRI's, and Atypicals are just like anyone who needs to take anti-biotics to treat a bacterial infection, or people who take chemotherapy for cancer. No difference what so ever. There is a biological problem which can be treated with drugs.

That being said, they most certainly are over prescribed. The reason being that the allopathic approach is to treat symptoms with drugs or surgery. There is nothing wrong with this, but this is not the whole picture. The biopsychosocial model views the mind and body as linked, whereas most allopaths will view the body as a seperate entity that can be treated. An allopath will believe that there is a biological problem within the brain and that no amount of therapy will be able to alter that.

The problem is that there is no blood test or other diagnostic technique which can effectively say what chemicals are being taken up too quickly (reuptake inhibitor). So whether it is Serotonin, Norepinephrine, or both, is anyones GUESS. That is what MD's do, they prescribe you a medication which they hope will treat the right chemical problem, and if it doesn't work they'll switch you to a different medication. This is often the hardest part for people with chronic depression or anxiety, finding a medication which effectively treats their symptoms with minimum side effects.

I'd avise anyone is this situation to seek treatment from a licensed psychiatrist FIRST, and explore the option of drugs as a LAST RESORT. However, if your condition is so debilitating that you are unable to perform certain functions in your life then I would recognize the drugs as a viable option. You might also seek an intermediate drug which can be a bridge/facilitator to treatment, such as xanex on an as needed basis. This can get you over the hump so to speak while you begin treatment and give the therapy time to work.

Good post bro. I don't really disagree with anything you said (except I personally think that if someone wants to take a pill and not explore underlying issues they should be able to do so and not feel stigmatized for doing so, it's not like they are hurting people or anything).

You make a great point about the severity of symptoms. Too many people who are virtually 'symptom free' for all intents and purposes are sometimes discouraging ppl with moderate to severe symptoms from avoiding medications that can make a world of difference for them. Not sure that is a good thing.

And when it comes right down to it I would very much like to see the medical model change from a system that waits until someone has a 'disease' and then treats that to one in which activities and practices to promote optimal health are advocated and taught as the central focus of medical practice. Of course the drug companies are not going to like that and they are a very powerful lobby. Not to many cardio 5 days/week lobbiests up on capital hill pushing that agenda, there simply isn't any money in it.

But like I said previously, I would not be alive today if not for medication. I presented at the ER several times with a condition where if medications were not administered stat I stood a real chance of dying. Medications saves lives. They are not perfect, but what is?

In the end a holistic approach is best IMO, but the ppl who just want to take the pill to wash over the symptoms in order to live a better life should not be degraded or berated or stigmatized. It took me a while to get around to changing my eating and exercise habbits even after being on anti-depressants, and wihtout them I might not have every even been in the position to take the steps that I am now taking. Using the tool of anti-depresants is enabling me to make changes at the age of 41, which if I can stick ot and tweak and improve will likely add 10+ years to my life. Not to metions that every day from now forward I will be feeling better than I ever thought I could.

I am not stupid, I knew about exercise and nutrion, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Analyze it any way you want. At the end of the day I simply wasn't doing it and I was leading a sedentary lifestyle and eating like total crap, heart attack in the making.

Tonight my wife actually accused me of 'going crazy' about health. That's a crazy I hope to make a central focus of my life.

**boxer08** · 09-16-2008, 05:17 AM

Again, thanks for all the reply's. First thing i'm going to do is go to the doctors tomorrow and book myself in for a 20 minute appointment and have a good chat with with doctor as i will normally only have a maximum of 8 minutes. I'm going to see if my echo results are back before i take the medication and ask if i can get reffered to a counselor.

Giggaman, i will ask about the dosage. The u.k's health system do not suck, its worse, its pathetic, i was waiting 2 months just to have the echo.

Through the knowledge that i have picked up on this forum and you guy's since the start it made me think, i now aint like basically all of my friends, i don't drink, take drugs and whatever else they do. I choose to train, eat better and it also prevented from taking steroids at the age of 15, i was reading on here from the age of 15 before i signed up at 18. Well it was at 18 i made the change.

I really do think that if my injury's or whatever ever is wrong can be diagnosed and treated it will help alot, then i can work on the other problems with counsolor and maybe medication.

**ScotchGuard** · 08-04-2009, 03:39 PM

boxer08, good luck. I'm taking 20mg citalopram ed. I'm 50yo and I wish I would have started taking c a LONG time ago. I had a temper that I couldn't control. I tried a lot of things from exercise, meditation, hypnosis (yeah, i know crazy), counseling, etc. for years. Then I changed doctors and he diagnosed depression a couple of years ago. The only side effect was my dick went dead for 6 weeks. My life is so much more balanced now. I think of all the time I lost with my little children because I was angry with them or they were afraid to come near me and I get misty eyed. I know that taking a drug for the rest of your life is NOT NOT NOT a good solution for many people. I just happen to be a freak that need it. LOL I know there are a lot of varying opinions on antidepressants. I for one say if you need it take it.

**Immortal Soldier** · 08-04-2009, 03:56 PM

I have been put on Zoloft at 100mg everyday, and I am a little over 2 weeks into it, and I was wondering is it common for the problems to get worse before they get better?

My anxiety and OCD (specifically anxiety) has infact gotten worse since I started taking them, is this going to last or is it temporary while the brain "fixes" itself?

Thanks

**ni4ni** · 08-04-2009, 05:16 PM

08' thread?

**DSM4Life** · 08-04-2009, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard

boxer08, good luck. I'm taking 20mg citalopram ed. I'm 50yo and I wish I would have started taking c a LONG time ago. I had a temper that I couldn't control. I tried a lot of things from exercise, meditation, hypnosis (yeah, i know crazy), counseling, etc. for years. Then I changed doctors and he diagnosed depression a couple of years ago. The only side effect was my dick went dead for 6 weeks. My life is so much more balanced now. I think of all the time I lost with my little children because I was angry with them or they were afraid to come near me and I get misty eyed. I know that taking a drug for the rest of your life is NOT NOT NOT a good solution for many people. I just happen to be a freak that need it. LOL I know there are a lot of varying opinions on antidepressants. I for one say if you need it take it.

loser

**Bojangles69** · 08-04-2009, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

I have been put on Zoloft at 100mg everyday, and I am a little over 2 weeks into it, and I was wondering is it common for the problems to get worse before they get better?

My anxiety and OCD (specifically anxiety) has infact gotten worse since I started taking them, is this going to last or is it temporary while the brain "fixes" itself?

Thanks

Ouch well first let me tell you YES this is extremely common, even moreso with Zoloft because it has stimulant effects (which can make you shakey and anxious as shit the first month)

I can only respond based on my own experience with Zoloft.
I actually stopped it at the 2 week mark (which is where you're at now)

I had started taking it for panic disorder and the second week I was on it I was having panic attacks at least twice a day (when normally it would just happen a few times a week)

It got so bad I went to school one day, got out of my car, and as I was walking to class my heart started pounding like a mfkr, I started shaking, my walk got sloppy like I was drunk and I was more paranoid then I was before I started taking it.
I walked into the building that day, flushed the bottle in the school toilet and never went to class thats how out of control the shaking and anxiety was.
So with Zoloft I DID NOT have a good experience.

Now on the other hand, I have to say a lot of this depends on circumstances.

A year past by and I was still getting panic attacks. I had tried therapy, NLP, systematic desensitation (which actually made it worse) and one day I basically cracked and was thrown in a psych ward lol.

Im not crazy it just got to the point where I had tried so many things to stop the panic attacks but they still were happening.

Getting thrown in that ward was the BEST thing that could have ever happened to me.
The docs threw me on Lexapro and again the first 2 weeks were terrible like the Zoloft. But I was more depressed then anxious with the Lex in the begining. BECAUSE I was in a ward I was forced to swallow the meds. (I could have threw them up if I really wanted to) but I made it past the initial phase that I didn't with the Zoloft. And I'll tell you today Lexapro did something serious and permanent to my brain, but in a GOOD WAY (I guess I'm just fortunate)
I completey stopped having panic attacks and anxiety after about 2 months, and soon it got to the point where I had NO anxiety at all (I mean normal anxieties that serve purposes, like getting anxious if your late to go somewhere).
After a year the lex had literally wiped away all my panic attacks, but also ALL my anxiety.. which became a bad thing.
I just started not giving a fvck about anything, being late, being broke, putting on weight, I just didn't give a shit.

So I had to stop taking the Lex because it was making me lazy and too content with life.
But the amazing thing is after I stopped (the withdrawals were NOT fun) I never had a panic attack again. When I got off I was thinking "wow now the panic attacks are prob gonna come back 10 fold" but they didn't.

So the lex had a profound impact on the way I think, and even today my anxiety is finally under control.

Mental illness is a VERY sensitive topic because the majority of citizens dont suffer from them. So their way of understanding mental illness becomes a projection of weakness towards those who do suffer. Its all the ego at play. But the way I see it is this.

There is NO frame of reference for something called REALITY.
There are over 6 billion people in this planet which means there are also over 6 billion different realities.

This is why when you're deciding to take meds, I still think its better to listen to your doctor then your "friends". Cause lets face it, a lot of "friends" can be idiots, and how many of them are actually doctors themselves?

Noone knows a god damn thing about you but you. Zoloft was just too much for me to handle, but if it doesn't work the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do is not make the decision to rule out ALL meds. You have to try another, and you have to give each one a fair chance till you find one that works, or none that work. Either way, you won't know till you try.

**lovbyts** · 08-04-2009, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by boxer08

Thanks for all the replys. I also have anger issues because of my problems, the doctor give them to me for my BDD, depresion and anxiety and said they would help a little with the anger. What is causing my problem is that i have something wrong with my both shoulders, right the worse and through that i can't train or get a job and ive been in pain with them for 2 years, and to add onto that i live with my partner and we have a daughter and with no job i have to keep the place, pay bills ect. with sick pay which is low. Ive been on a waiting list for over 6 months just to see orthopedic surgeon, i think that if they coud diagnose and treat me it would help alot.

DAMN I hope that is not what Obama is pushing for with our health care. If I have to wait over a week to see a doctor or orthopedic surgeon I just call another doctor.

OK sounds like you are depressed because of health, financial and stress related reasons. I dont think you need meeds for that, you need counseling or learn to deal with stress better. Meds are not a cure all but a quick fix most of the time. There are people that truly need them because of chemical imbalance but your reasons sound like it's just a part of life.

**fit4ever** · 08-04-2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by boxer08

My doctor prescribed me citalpopram 10mg daily on the 2nd of september and i stll haven't taken any, i am confused about should i or shouldn't i take them. Any help appreciated.

Here's the deal. I'm a counselor and I talk to tons of people that suffer from depression, substance abuse, anger, all sorts of addictions, etc. The following advice that I'm about to share might not be right for you, but there's a certain degree of truth available within it.

Any form of depression, addiction or unhealthy behavior begins in the mind. If the issue(s) don't get addressed quickly enough, then they slowly make their way down south to the heart. And if the issues stay in the heart for too long, it finally gets deposited in the soul. Once it resides in the soul, your issue(s) control your entire life. Period.

So how might a medication help or hurt you? Well, it'll make you feel better. But all it does is numb your mind so that you're able to function with temporary relief. Yet, the issue(s) still reside in your soul. Medication becomes very attractive because it allows people to enter into a false sense of reality. Problem is, when you're in that state, your issued(s) still exist. Yet, you have no sense of urgency to address them because the medication convinces you differently.

My advice to you is to dig deeper than you can ever imagine regarding the issues that have been fermenting in your life for all of these years. It'll be very tough, and humbling, but it'll be worth it. If you're really that worried about it, in addition to the potential of being hooked on medication all of your life, you'll swallow your pride and seek help through a soul changer. You can't do it alone because your way is what has gotten you to this point.

Every day, you're changing. Either in a good way or in a bad way. What's it going to be tomorrow?