why do grown ups dress like this?

[Narkissos]

For all those that didnt know, like myself. Homonym: a word pronounced and spelt the same as another, but having a different meaning..

You're a good sport Matt.

Do 'gall' next.

[Matt]

Gall: to annoy or irritate, informal bold impudence, a sore on the skin caused by rubbing. This word seems to have loads of meanings lol.

[jimmyinkedup]

Wow it is sad ...steroetype ...the very thing that started the hostility in this thread...is being participated in by the very people that first objected to it. If that's not being part of the problem, not part of the solution i don't know what is. I def suggest some reading of MLK Jr for several people in this thread...including those who apparently feel they are more intelligent than others and seemingly feel , based on their blatant participation in the very problem they criticize, they mistakenly understand not only the problem but the solution.Yet they continue (regardless of race) to be a part of the problem. Very misguided IMO....

[Narkissos]

Wow it is sad ...steroetype ...the very thing that started the hostility in this thread...is being participated in by the very people that first objected to it. If that's not being part of the problem, not part of the solution i don't know what is. I def suggest some reading of MLK Jr for several people in this thread...including those who apparently feel they are more intelligent than others and seemingly feel , based on their blatant participation in the very problem they criticize, they mistakenly understand not only the problem but the solution.Yet they continue (regardless of race) to be a part of the problem. Very misguided IMO....

I think you're quite lost.

Show me the 'stereotype' being 'participated in'.

Thanks.

-CNS

[FireGuy]

Wow it is sad ...steroetype ...the very thing that started the hostility in this thread...is being participated in by the very people that first objected to it. If that's not being part of the problem, not part of the solution i don't know what is. I def suggest some reading of MLK Jr for several people in this thread...including those who apparently feel they are more intelligent than others and seemingly feel , based on their blatant participation in the very problem they criticize, they mistakenly understand not only the problem but the solution.Yet they continue (regardless of race) to be a part of the problem. Very misguided IMO....

I appreciate your input into the discussion and I truly believe you mean well but I too am lost and confused as to what you are trying to say.

[DSM4Life]

Poor Philadelphia Eagles.....

[jimmyinkedup]

and there in lies possibly the biggest portion of the problem. Potentially at the base of this very issue ...the ease at which we see behaviors in others yet are so unable to recognize them within ourselves. Our inability to do so allows us to become a part of the very problem we wish to eliminate. Read your previous posts ...you may get my drift. Also seriously MLK Jr was a genius, such a spiritual man and wrote often of this very topic....do with it what u will ....but its (his work) enlightening for all people ..regardless of race. I mean no disrespect to you personally Nark ....Im calling it like i see it.
Oh and if needed the stereotyping began with the "typical defense" statement and continued from there with others....

[Narkissos]

and there in lies possibly the biggest portion of the problem. Potentially at the base of this very issue ...the ease at which we see behaviors in others yet are so unable to recognize them within ourselves. Our inability to do so allows us to become a part of the very problem we wish to eliminate. Read your previous posts ...you may get my drift. Also seriously MLK Jr was a genius, such a spiritual man and wrote often of this very topic....do with it what u will ....but its (his work) enlightening for all people ..regardless of race. I mean no disrespect to you personally Nark ....Im calling it like i see it.
Oh and if needed the stereotyping began with the "typical defense" statement and continued from there with others....

Sorry buddy... But i'm still totally lost as to what you're referring.

Personally i think this discussion, and subsequent banter, went over your head...

Right now you're grasping at straws.

-CNS

[D7M]

I was trying to stay out of this one, but I gotta agree with Nark. Jimmy, I don't see what you're getting at.

[jimmyinkedup]

Sorry buddy... But i'm still totally lost as to what you're referring.

Personally i think this discussion, and subsequent banter, went over your head...

Right now you're grasping at straws.

-CNS

Perhaps ...or it went over yours. After the statement i pointed out (where you sterotyped me into a category that anyone who knows me and how i live my life would see as ridiculous) you proceed to group people as ignorant and discount their posts based on the fact that they were applying incorrect grammar etc... Stereotyping them and disregarding them based on level of grammatical application , spelling and other points (using it to categorize them , make them look stupid, etc..)... So should people who dont know grammar or cant spell or have the same vocabulary as you be discounted as stupid and their opinions not considered? Why is that different than stereotyping by color of a mans skin. Its the same ignorant mistake. Think about it. A lot of racism is based on sterotype ...to speak against it using the same ignorance ...regardless of context ...feeds in to the very core of the problem. Nonetheless its all good...

[OH REALLY]

I believe it's due to a dysfunctional up brining, lack of values and respect for other(who wants to see that?)

Definite lack of fashion sense and people trying to 'fit in'

i agree with you on this one, dysfunctional up brining, lack of values and
respect for other. and also them selfs. i had a costumer dressed the same way trying to get a refinance for his house from me and his credit score was only a 370 after i told him his credit score he said, " So man what you saying" the funny thing was his house payment was two months past due but his car was up to date....

[WOLFCRAFT]

Hm.. if you threw clothing in monkey house, it'd look like two black guys dressed badly?

A review of history would inform you of just how ****ing inappropriate your statement was.

Oh Jeez, it was a comment on intelligence level, not race.

Gimme a break.

[Narkissos]

Perhaps ...or it went over yours. After the statement i pointed out (where you sterotyped me into a category that anyone who knows me and how i live my life would see as ridiculous) you proceed to group people as ignorant and discount their posts based on the fact that they were applying incorrect grammar etc... Stereotyping them and disregarding them based on level of grammatical application , spelling and other points... So should people who dont know grammar or cant spell or have the same vocabulary as you be discounted as stupid and their opinions not considered? Why is that different than stereotyping by color of a mans skin. Its the same ignorant mistake. Think about it. A lot of racism is based on sterotype ...to speak against it using the same ignorance ...regardless of context ...feeds in to the very core of the problem. Nonetheless its all good...

This proves that the discussion went over your head.

I neither discounted nor disregarded anyone. (a redundant statement BTW... as the two words can be used interchangeably)

Neither did i call anyone 'stupid'.

Follow the dialogue dude...

The dialogue, as opposed to your preconceived (and clearly short-sighted) argument(s).

I shall reiterate my point, as the previous posts' meaning have clearly eluded you.

My point to the posters in this thread was simple:


You have no right to label anyone's culture or belief-structure as 'stupid'... simply because its logic or applicability cannot be defined by the societal constructs which are your reference base.

Furthermore, the head perpetrators of said behaviour(s) exhibited the sentence and verb agreement of 12 year olds.

This, by the way (in case you are still lost), places said individuals in a parallel position... as they are plausibly open to the exact ridicule they perpetrate on people who are different.



In conclusion... i stated this:

If people spent less time trying to demonize others, and more times trying to improve themselves, societal interaction would be much more homogenous IMO.

^^i.e. People should stop labeling and discriminating against others.

You have clearly over-reached...and you should stop while you are behind.

Thanks.

-CNS

[WOLFCRAFT]

It cracks me up that you guys turned this into a matter of race.
It's about two jackoffs who don't know how to wear clothing properly.

All because I said monkey.
Sorry, throwing a pile of clothing in the penguin house wouldn't really have made sense.

Some people need to check their estrogen levels.

[Narkissos]

^^Or.. you need to think prior to typing?

Food for thought I'd say.

[OH REALLY]

I really don't see to much discrimination in this thread REALLY

I have white ,Spanish and black friends that dress this way and i think they all look funny but there my friends and i have baggy close my self no one should be upset with this thread.
+ how do you know they just didn't loose a lot of weight.

[jimmyinkedup]

Nark - wow so you mean maybe i misinterpreted your intent ..the same way maybe you misinterpreted the posters above yours that you called racist? (btw - that was purely a devils advocate statement, but give it some thought)
If you also give some thought to my posts and re read what you posted , perhaps you will get a better understanding of my point. Perhaps not. One thing we do agree on is your closing statement of people stopping the labeling and discriminating against others.
BTW - I think if u read my very first post in this thread ....it corresponds with your thoughts as far as labeling etc....

[WOLFCRAFT]

Nark, no offense but you really seem like you're trying too hard here.

The president is black now dude, everything is cool.

[WOLFCRAFT]

Take my initial post and apply it to this photo instead...
Problem solved.

[*RAGE*]

^^Or.. you need to think prior to typing?

Food for thought I'd say.

And you need to not read into thing before you type..brother

[DSM4Life]

Just for the record , i dont think there is anything wrong with guys exposing their @$$es

[higherdesire]

[QUOTE=prone2rage;4381859]Ten years I guess you would know, so did you wear yours tight...j/k thanks for clearing that up for me...[/QUOTE

I never saw that one coming!

[*RAGE*]

I hope that did not make you mad bro just playing around

[Flagg]

That stupid ****ing fashion statement is even over here in the UK.

It looks ****ing stupid, I mean what next? Just walking around in public in your boxers?

[Tock]

The Dallas City Council considered a city ordinance prohibiting sagging pants, but it was quickly pointed out that such a law would be unconstitutional. That was the end of that.

If my business was oriented at teens, I'd hire kids with sagging pants. But my business is oriented at the more prosperous 40-70 crowd, so I look for more conventionally attired employees.
I recall the controversy over hair length in the 1960's and 70's. If the critics had been correct, civilization would have collapsed years ago under the social horrors resulting from men with long hair. Criticism of saggy pants isn't any different. And 20 years from now, critics will complain about something else that teenagers are doing.


All in all, it's much ado about nothing . . .

[higherdesire]

I hope that did not make you mad bro just playing around

No worries. I thought it was funny too bro!

[OH REALLY]

Oh really

[higherdesire]

is there an echo?

[OH REALLY]

And 20 years from now, critics will complain about something else that teenagers are doing.

those mechanics didn't look like teenagers

[thegodfather]

L..M..A..O.

By your statement, I'm guessing that the Fox News is your major news source.



Bingo.

An afro-centric 'style', societally demonized... The perpetrators automatically labelled as:


etc.

Thank goodness for the couple of white guys (DSM in particular) who aren't steeped in knee-jerk prejudices.

What is 'appropriate' to an individual is related to normative values with which they were socialized.

Norms are a sociological/societal/cultural construct.

All i see in this thread are prejudices related to cultural norms which fall outside said posters' scope of understanding.

No different than when tattoos were associated solely with trouble-makers.

If people spent less time trying to demonize others, and more times trying to improve themselves, societal interaction would be much more homogeneous IMO.

This thread needs a padlock.

-CNS

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of this being a racial issue. Myself as a libertarian, I view all people as individuals and not as groups. I think that you're bifercating the issue by associating the sagging of ones pants with a racial stereotype or culture. While that may be where the trend originated, we can currently see people off nationality's, ethnicity's, and races participating in the trend. I think my association of sagging pants to those who are likely uneducated and from a lower SES is an accurate one. It however, has absolutely NOTHING to do with race, and my contempt for it is not based on race either.

You say that the prejudice associated with the sagging of pants is similar to the prejudice against people with tattoo's. I would disagree. My contempt against people who choose to wear their pants in such a manner is that I feel it portrays a lack of respect for ones self and ones community. I do not feel that tattoo's in and of themselves are an offensive thing to have on ones body. However, I would say that if a person were to display tattoo's on their body which displayed profanity, obscenity, or nudity then a bias against such displays would be warranted in the same way people assume a person with sagging pants is discriminated against. It is about an outward display of disrespect to the community, and not a racial issue. It becomes a racial issue if you decide it is one, but to those of us who are arguing soundly against it, to suggest we are racializing the issue is incorrect.

[*RAGE*]

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of this being a racial issue. Myself as a libertarian, I view all people as individuals and not as groups. I think that you're bifercating the issue by associating the sagging of ones pants with a racial stereotype or culture. While that may be where the trend originated, we can currently see people off nationality's, ethnicity's, and races participating in the trend. I think my association of sagging pants to those who are likely uneducated and from a lower SES is an accurate one. It however, has absolutely NOTHING to do with race, and my contempt for it is not based on race either.

You say that the prejudice associated with the sagging of pants is similar to the prejudice against people with tattoo's. I would disagree. My contempt against people who choose to wear their pants in such a manner is that I feel it portrays a lack of respect for ones self and ones community. I do not feel that tattoo's in and of themselves are an offensive thing to have on ones body. However, I would say that if a person were to display tattoo's on their body which displayed profanity, obscenity, or nudity then a bias against such displays would be warranted in the same way people assume a person with sagging pants is discriminated against. It is about an outward display of disrespect to the community, and not a racial issue. It becomes a racial issue if you decide it is one, but to those of us who are arguing soundly against it, to suggest we are racializing the issue is incorrect.

well said bro

[Bojangles69]

Its because they're stupid, their parents are stupid, and their friends are stupid.

So inevitably the are conditioned to behave, act, and be stupid themselves.

[Bojangles69]

It also has a lot to do with race to disagree with godfather, "a lot" of course is a relative word, but I could sit here and list a shit load of reasons why.

The only problem is we aren't allowed to talk about things like that here or it just winds up offending people, as the truth usually has a strange way of doing. Just because reasons are offensive doesn't mean their wrong, and also, a lot of communication between people on racial topics is usually distorted when its in an open forum such as this.
So its a waste of time imo from either side.

[JiGGaMaN]

Why dont you just ask someone you see who wears their clothes like that? problem solved. i dont see how anyone could comment on their upbringing or morals by looking at their clothes... thats stereotyping.

I would really like to know why you even care?

[FireGuy]

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of this being a racial issue. Myself as a libertarian, I view all people as individuals and not as groups. I think that you're bifercating the issue by associating the sagging of ones pants with a racial stereotype or culture. While that may be where the trend originated, we can currently see people off nationality's, ethnicity's, and races participating in the trend. I think my association of sagging pants to those who are likely uneducated and from a lower SES is an accurate one. It however, has absolutely NOTHING to do with race, and my contempt for it is not based on race either.

You say that the prejudice associated with the sagging of pants is similar to the prejudice against people with tattoo's. I would disagree. My contempt against people who choose to wear their pants in such a manner is that I feel it portrays a lack of respect for ones self and ones community. I do not feel that tattoo's in and of themselves are an offensive thing to have on ones body. However, I would say that if a person were to display tattoo's on their body which displayed profanity, obscenity, or nudity then a bias against such displays would be warranted in the same way people assume a person with sagging pants is discriminated against. It is about an outward display of disrespect to the community, and not a racial issue. It becomes a racial issue if you decide it is one, but to those of us who are arguing soundly against it, to suggest we are racializing the issue is incorrect.

It became about racial when someone made reference to "monkeys" dressing that way. It's common knowledge that "monkey" references when speaking of African Americans is considered racial in nature. Howard Cosell found out about this the hard way.

[*RAGE*]

It became about racial when someone made reference to "monkeys" dressing that way. It's common knowledge that "monkey" references when speaking of African Americans is considered racial in nature. Howard Cosell found out about this the hard way.

fireguy I like a lot of what you say and have learned from you, but come on..If I said look at the monkey in the cage. does that mean I am talking about an african american in jail or am I at the zoo. its not just what you say it is how people read it and look at it. warcraft said he did not even thing about it when he typed it. but the when it was read it was racail...

[Bojangles69]

Thats the great thing about stereotypes.

People say "ohh nooo! you can't do that thats *Stereotyping*!!!".
I never understood WHY we can't do that.

Most people understand stereotypes don't apply to everyone, but they sure as hell apply to a lot, otherwise they wouldn't exist in the first place.

If I don't see successful classy upstanding citizens sagging their jeans, than I absolutely will have every logical right to believe not "only" dirtbags do it, but that "most" people who do it are simply dirtbags.

But in the whole spectrum of things, it doesn't mean I won't give you a chance to prove me otherwise. And when I do give them a chance, and actually speak to them its usually:

"yo wuts up dog!! mfkrs be frontn n shyt namean? talkn al diz smak dat all weez baggy pants wearers be stupid likes we ont know a dang or 2". hahhaaaa, stereotypes save people so much time they have no idea, stop bashing them.

And than someone will say ebonics isn't correlated too intelligence. ahaaa

[J431S]

thanks for these carefully thought detail DSM. You left no stone unturn on this topic. u are the best.

Several years ago the National Basketball Association implemented an extremely unpopular dress code, and you did not have to be a rocket scientist to know that the target was African American basketball players.

Understandably, school districts, given wide latitude by the courts, have also implemented more restrictive dress codes. Now it appears that communities across the country have decided to get in on the action by passing laws against wearing sagging pants in public.

Sagging pants style is worn by young black males, although a few white males wear sagging pants. This style, popularized in the early 1990s by hip hop artists, has become extremely popular across the United States. In Delcambre, Louisiana, a town of 80 miles southwest of Baton Rouge, wearing your pants in this manner carries a fine of as much as $500 or up to a six-month jail sentence.

Another town, Mansfield, fines offenders up to $150 and 15 days in the slammer. According to the esteemed mayor, “this new law will set a good civic image.” The success in passing these dress codes has inspired other communities to follow suit. Efforts to outlaw sagging in Virginia and statewide in Louisiana in 2004 failed, usually when opponents invoked a right to self-expression. But the latest legislative efforts have taken a different tack, drawing on indecency laws, and their success has inspired other lawmakers. With hip hop under serious attack from the song lyric police, the time is ripe to make a frontal attack on sagging pants. Next, they may go after the over-sized t-shirts.

For example, in the West Ward of Trenton, New Jersey, Councilwoman Annette Lartigue is "drafting an ordinance to fine or enforce community service in response to what she sees as the problem of exposing private parts in public. 'It's a fad like hot pants; however, I think it crosses the line when a person shows their backside,' Lartigue said. 'You can't legislate how people dress, but you can legislate when people begin to become indecent by exposing their body parts.'" While she is being general here, you can bet that sagging pants will be included in this ordinance.

From my perspective, sagging pants is nothing but a metaphor for the hip hop lifestyle. Critics of this lifestyle view sagging pants as a badge of delinquency along with its distinctive thug walk and disrespect for authority, whatever this means. Sagging began in American prisons, where over-sized uniforms were issued without belts to prevent suicide and the use of belts as weapons. The style spread by way of rappers and music videos, from the ghetto to the suburbs and around the world. Sagging pants are an easy and convenient symbol of the supposed dereliction and menace of young blacks.

While this issue is usually viewed in the context of racism against young African American males, blacks are also split over this issue. It was African American councilpersons in Shreveport, Mansfield and the other small towns who proposed the sagging pants laws. America’s most famous dad, Bill Cosby spoke for many blacks when he criticized sagging pants and other supposedly “ghetto” practices. While he later backed off much of his criticism, many blacks agreed with him.

Cosby and other older African Americans are over-reacting to the cultural significance of sagging pants. Clothing, body piercing, etc is nothing more than youthful rebellion. Most young people, except the Willie Nelson types, will eventually grow out of it, evidenced by the lack of sagging pants worn by African American male college students. My advice is to just roll with it. Like most fads, it will pass just like bell bottom pants, hot pants, zoot suits, pointed toe shoes, platform shoes, and Mao jackets. Sagging laws are certainly not the answer.

Besides, these kind of laws reinforce negative images of young African American males and will do more to swell the prison population than reduce it. These laws confirm for many that the problems of poor blacks are self-made and insoluble. Many employers admit that they won't hire young blacks because they believe they are lazier, more crime prone, and educationally deficient. Many politicians, even without the excuse of ballooning state and federal budget deficits and cutbacks, mightily resist efforts to increase spending on job, health, and education programs for the poor.

Finally, sagging laws will expose these communities to expensive litigation. The American Civil Liberties Union has been steadfast in its opposition to dress restrictions. Debbie Seagraves, the executive director of the group in Georgia, said, "I don't see any way that something constitutional could be crafted when the intention is to single out and label one style of dress that originated with the black youth culture as an unacceptable form of expression." So leave it alone!

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/09/09/1423232.php

[FireGuy]

fireguy I like a lot of what you say and have learned from you, but come on..If I said look at the monkey in the cage. does that mean I am talking about an african american in jail or am I at the zoo. its not just what you say it is how people read it and look at it. warcraft said he did not even thing about it when he typed it. but the when it was read it was racail...

No, if that is all you said it would not have racial overtones. If the post about Monkeys was not referrencing a picture of African American males it would not be racial either. It's when you tie the two together you have problems.

[WOLFCRAFT]

Hey you just called me WARcraft. Now I'M offended!!