Is it racist if it's true?

**spywizard** · 02-09-2009, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I remember when this board use to be about body building and roids and diets and hot fitness chicks.....Alas those were the days...

i remember the girls, made the idiots act more decent as well..

**JDawg1536** · 02-09-2009, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by spywizard

i remember the girls, made the idiots act more decent as well..

I still stay on my best behavior for you, sweet cheeks.

**MuscleScience** · 02-09-2009, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by spywizard

i remember the girls, made the idiots act more decent as well..

We need more women thats for sure!!!

**JDawg1536** · 02-09-2009, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

We need more women thats for sure!!!

Plenty of bitches around here already.....

**Kratos** · 02-09-2009, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by paulzane

That is a cultural difference........ A lot of restaurants in Britain put a service charge on the bill, so there are no tips, unless the service was outstanding.
When the Brits go to the States they are not used to tipping so they don't bother to tip!!!!

Is that racial stereotyping?

I know, so you saw my point. British people really don't tip well, and a well known reason for it...sure the're maybe some that do, but on average. So, if you're a waitress, you're unhappy when someone walks in talking British, and justifiably so. If their experience is they aren't getting good tips from black people what's the problem? Are we that sensitive?

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 02-09-2009, 10:39 PM

A swimmer wears 8 gold medals and smokes dope, he gets suspended.
A rapper wears 8 gold medals and smokes dope, he gets a grammy.

**JDawg1536** · 02-09-2009, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx

A swimmer wears 8 gold medals and smokes dope, he gets suspended.
A rapper wears 8 gold medals and smokes dope, he gets a grammy.

This racism is really bringing our people down......

**Brown Ninja** · 02-09-2009, 10:47 PM

mexicans make the best landscapers

**amcon** · 02-09-2009, 11:04 PM

you guys are soo bad!!! its nice to see every one being politically correct

**zimmy** · 02-09-2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Brown Ninja

mexicans make the best landscapers

I couldn't keep a lawn alive if I had to use it to make a raft :P

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by AandF6969

So my roommate works at Buffalo Wild Wings as a waiter. On Tuesday nights, they have a really cheap wing night, I think they're 25 cents or something like that. He absolutely hates going into work on Tuesdays, because he says that there are a lot more black people who show up than normal, and they don't tip hardly anything. He said everyone else tips normally that day as well.

Is it racist for him to say that "black people don't tip well" based on his experiences and observations from working at that restaurant?

You big dummy.

**AandF6969** · 02-10-2009, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kratos

If their experience is they aren't getting good tips from black people what's the problem? Are we that sensitive?

Yes dude. Noticing and observing things about people's behavior is racist.

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by AandF6969

Yes dude. Noticing and observing things about people's behavior is racist.

take a course on sampling methods, or even just a general statistics course and youll realize you are stupid for saying what you said.

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 01:02 AM

To elaborate, you cant just say i observed group x doing event y at location z, therefore event y occurs everywhere for group x.

**AandF6969** · 02-10-2009, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by JiGGaMaN

To elaborate, you cant just say i observed group x doing event y at location z, therefore event y occurs everywhere for group x.

Agreed.

But maybe Group X does event Y MORE OFTEN than Group F... everywhere. Not just location Z.

Would it be racist if on a whole, when a sample population of 10,000 people across the nation were polled, if a greater percentage of black people said they like fried chicken than other races?

When I say "White guys can't dance", obviously I'm not speaking about every single white guy on the face of the earth. I'm speaking in a generality that as a whole, most white guys can't dance as well as most other races.

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 01:40 AM

Would it be racist if on a whole, when a sample population of 10,000 people across the nation were polled, if a greater percentage of black people said they like fried chicken than other races? yes. everyone loves fried chicken.

When I say "White guys can't dance", obviously I'm not speaking about every single white guy on the face of the earth. I'm speaking in a generality that as a whole, most white guys can't dance as well as most other races. double yes. where are you coming up with this bullshit?

**peachfuzz** · 02-10-2009, 01:48 AM

first i want to say that anyone in here who says they dont stereotype is a liar. does it make you a racist? no. it makes you a human being. our brains consolidate and generalize information. to say you are racist because of this is simply not true. also lets not forget that stereotypes ARE based on truth. so whats the big deal? stereotypes can be as much of a positive as they are a negative. its how YOU chose to utilize them.

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 02:02 AM

ok just because you believe something is true, doesnt make it so. your view of the world is so incredibly narrow. defend your statements for each of those cases please.

For the first one with chicken- have you done this study? does a similar one exist? are you just saying that its obvious because thats what you've heard, or are you saying that because you observed it at a place where you were likely going to see a lot of black people eating regardless of what type of restaurant it is?

Second one about dancing - how can you even say certain races can dance better than another? if you said certain cultures dance more often, i would understand that, because thats something you could verify. but to say all people of a given race, regardless of what country you are from... thats just retarded. you dont have enough evidence to support that claim and never will.

but how about this:

a higher proportion of african americans are professional dancers because of inequality regarding education, discrimination, etc. this limited their ability to enter many career fields. employment in entertainment, such as music (jazz), dancing, singing and athletics became some of the few areas african americans could gain meaningful employment.

^^even this statement is worth nothing. in fact, i made it up off the top of my head. i have no evidence to back this up, but it SOUNDS like its true, doesnt it?

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

first i want to say that anyone in here who says they dont stereotype is a liar. does it make you a racist? no. it makes you a human being. our brains consolidate and generalize information. to say you are racist because of this is simply not true. also lets not forget that stereotypes ARE based on truth. so whats the big deal? stereotypes can be as much of a positive as they are a negative. its how YOU chose to utilize them.

he didnt ask if stereotyping makes you a racist (which it does). He asked if being a racist, is racist. and stereotypes are based on truth? give me an example please. you obviously dont know how offensive that sort of stuff is to people. think about what its like having people say 'hey you do this or act like this because of your skin colour/whatever' no. im my own person. i CHOOSE to do whatever i want. i make decisions for myself not because i am insert colour here/insert religion here/ etc.

**AandF6969** · 02-10-2009, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by JiGGaMaN

ok just because you believe something is true, doesnt make it so. your view of the world is so incredibly narrow. defend your statements for each of those cases please.

For the first one with chicken- have you done this study? does a similar one exist? are you just saying that its obvious because thats what you've heard, or are you saying that because you observed it at a place where you were likely going to see a lot of black people eating regardless of what type of restaurant it is?

No, I haven't done this study. I'm not saying the stereotype is true.

What I'm saying is IF such a study were conducted, and it was determined that as a whole a larger percentage of black people liked fried chicken than other races, would it be racist to say "black people like fried chicken"? Would it be any more bigoted than saying "College kids drink a lot" or "College kids like to drink" or even saying something like "Lots of baseball players do steroids ". Obviously these statements aren't referring to EVERY black person or EVERY college kid or EVERY baseball player. They're talking about the population as a whole, in reference to other populations.

If generalizations couldn't be used to refer to populations we couldn't say half the things we say... "Dell's suck... oh wait, I haven't used every Dell on the planet, I've only used 2, so I can't say that"... "Latin people like to dance Salsa music... oh wait, I don't personally know every single Latin person in the world, so I can't say that."

Does the fact that Asian countries have higher math and science test scores mean that you can say "Asians are good at math" or is that racist?

**peachfuzz** · 02-10-2009, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by JiGGaMaN

he didnt ask if stereotyping makes you a racist (which it does). He asked if being a racist, is racist. and stereotypes are based on truth? give me an example please. you obviously dont know how offensive that sort of stuff is to people. think about what its like having people say 'hey you do this or act like this because of your skin colour/whatever' no. im my own person. i CHOOSE to do whatever i want. i make decisions for myself not because i am insert colour here/insert religion here/ etc.

Categorization is an essential human capability that enables us to simplify, predict, and organize our world. We all do it consciously or not. If that makes me a racist. Then ok.

a stereotype that is based on truth? Americans are obese...does that mean i am obese? No as you implied i am an individual, but nonetheless it has truth to it.

i dont know how offensive that is? because ive never been stereotyped? come on.

and you make decisions as an individual. but your telling me they are not shaped by your experiences, upbringing, ethnicity and culture, religion or lack of, education etc?

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by AandF6969

No, I haven't done this study. I'm not saying the stereotype is true.

What I'm saying is IF such a study were conducted, and it was determined that as a whole a larger percentage of black people liked fried chicken than other races, would it be racist to say "black people like fried chicken"? Would it be any more bigoted than saying "College kids drink a lot" or "College kids like to drink" or even saying something like "Lots of baseball players do steroids ". Obviously these statements aren't referring to EVERY black person or EVERY college kid or EVERY baseball player. They're talking about the population as a whole, in reference to other populations.

If generalizations couldn't be used to refer to populations we couldn't say half the things we say... "Dell's suck... oh wait, I haven't used every Dell on the planet, I've only used 2, so I can't say that"... "Latin people like to dance Salsa music... oh wait, I don't personally know every single Latin person in the world, so I can't say that."

Does the fact that Asian countries have higher math and science test scores mean that you can say "Asians are good at math" or is that racist?

no because im sure many parts of asia have really shitty math/science scores: North korea, vietnam, cambodia, laos, philippines... should i go on?

**JiGGaMaN** · 02-10-2009, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

Categorization is an essential human capability that enables us to simplify, predict, and organize our world. We all do it consciously or not. If that makes me a racist. Then ok.

a stereotype that is based on truth? Americans are obese...does that mean i am obese? No as you implied i am an individual, but nonetheless it has truth to it.

i dont know how offensive that is? because ive never been stereotyped? come on.

and you make decisions as an individual. but your telling me they are not shaped by your experiences, upbringing, ethnicity and culture, religion or lack of, education etc?

it doesnt hold true for race though.

**AandF6969** · 02-10-2009, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by JiGGaMaN

no because im sure many parts of asia have really shitty math/science scores: North korea, vietnam, cambodia, laos, philippines... should i go on?

Okay... if China's test scores are twice as good as the U.S., saying "The Chinese are good at math". Obviously EVERY chinese person isn't, but as a general population....

Is saying "College kids drink a lot" or "Dell's suck" an invalid statement?

**Kratos** · 02-10-2009, 10:10 AM

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=1329241

**Kratos** · 02-10-2009, 10:13 AM

But even when black and white customers are in the same socioeconomic class or rate the quality of service equally, he says, several studies by himself and others found that they tip differently. Black diners average 10.9% to 14.7% of the bill, and white diners average 16.6% to 19.4%, depending on the study. The server’s race didn’t matter.

Black subjects are also more likely than whites to say they never tip servers (6% versus 2%, in one study) and to leave tips as flat-dollar amounts instead of percentages of the bill (50.7% versus 19.4%, in one study).

from this article http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar...l/tr-insider26

**VeraDeMilo** · 02-10-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Kratos

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=1329241

Good find Kratos. I think american restaurants should just factor in the 15% gratuity charge into the total bill at the end of the meal. This would solve this problem. I have eaten at some high end restaurants that do this already. If the service was outstanding, you can always leave a little extra at the table. This would also benefit the government by being able to see what restaurant workers make in tips instead of just taxing them on the amount they report.

**Kratos** · 02-10-2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by AandF6969

Yes dude. Noticing and observing things about people's behavior is racist.

I don't think so, if it's a personal observance and not the mindless repitition of a stereotype.

**chuckt12345** · 02-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Ive had the same thing,, worked college bars and they would have "hiphop night" or whatever you wanna call them and i hated working them because of the tips. No one wanted to work them,, if that makes me racist than so be it. I find it to be more of a cultural thing.

**J-Dogg** · 02-10-2009, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by VeraDeMilo

Good find Kratos. I think american restaurants should just factor in the 15% gratuity charge into the total bill at the end of the meal. This would solve this problem. I have eaten at some high end restaurants that do this already. If the service was outstanding, you can always leave a little extra at the table. This would also benefit the government by being able to see what restaurant workers make in tips instead of just taxing them on the amount they report.

Why care about the service you give if you know you are getting 15%? No point in caring if you know it's worked in.

To be honest, I think servers make TOO much money, and they don't have to claim shit.

If they don't make $20 an hour, they throw a fit.

It's a $10 an hour job if you ask me, the guy cooking the food makes less and the guy managing the restaurant in most cases makes less too.

Quit crying, it's a job, if you make $12 an hour 1 day a week and $25 an hour the rest of the week big deal. You are still only claiming a fraction of it. Most servers live in income base housing, get a bridge card and have a few kids. They live off the government and make 30 or 40k a year with out any real training or schooling.

I tip well because I'm nice, but I think I'm going to quit.

**IronReload04** · 02-10-2009, 01:34 PM

somebody mentioned asians and driving/traffic.

I just wanted to give my thoughts.

There are quite a bit of asians on my campus, especially in my apt complex. exchange students not asian americans.

My personal bias, from personal observations of watching traffic, is that asians are clueless as to where their bodies are in space and compeltely oblivious to their surroundings.

But then I got to thinking, maybe its just their culture to take laws and rules more literal. Without getting into to much detail, their are situatsions I see all the time where the asians are technically correct in what they are doing, but almost end up getting hurt. I think here, we follow laws but they are not always so black and white. let me just use an example.

at an intersection urban setting at a traffic light. the bus is going straight and turning right at the intersectrion. the asian girl is going straight. technically, the asian girl has the right of way. However, if the bus waited for its right of way, it would NEVER be able to turn. The bus commits to the turn before asian girl gets to intersection. She does not look before crossing, and practically gets ran over, and throws a tantrum over it.

I see these things ALL the time with asians

**J-Dogg** · 02-10-2009, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by IronReload04

somebody mentioned asians and driving/traffic.

I just wanted to give my thoughts.

There are quite a bit of asians on my campus, especially in my apt complex. exchange students not asian americans.

My personal bias, from personal observations of watching traffic, is that asians are clueless as to where their bodies are in space and compeltely oblivious to their surroundings.

But then I got to thinking, maybe its just their culture to take laws and rules more literal. Without getting into to much detail, their are situatsions I see all the time where the asians are technically correct in what they are doing, but almost end up getting hurt. I think here, we follow laws but they are not always so black and white. let me just use an example.

at an intersection urban setting at a traffic light. the bus is going straight and turning right at the intersectrion. the asian girl is going straight. technically, the asian girl has the right of way. However, if the bus waited for its right of way, it would NEVER be able to turn. The bus commits to the turn before asian girl gets to intersection. She does not look before crossing, and practically gets ran over, and throws a tantrum over it.

I see these things ALL the time with asians

So you are basically saying, revoke their right to vote and enslave them because they are crappy drivers?

Racist

**VeraDeMilo** · 02-10-2009, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

Why care about the service you give if you know you are getting 15%? No point in caring if you know it's worked in.

To be honest, I think servers make TOO much money, and they don't have to claim shit.

If they don't make $20 an hour, they throw a fit.

It's a $10 an hour job if you ask me, the guy cooking the food makes less and the guy managing the restaurant in most cases makes less too.

Quit crying, it's a job, if you make $12 an hour 1 day a week and $25 an hour the rest of the week big deal. You are still only claiming a fraction of it. Most servers live in income base housing, get a bridge card and have a few kids. They live off the government and make 30 or 40k a year with out any real training or schooling.

I tip well because I'm nice, but I think I'm going to quit.

$10 bucks an hour base? where do u live? if its a job where tips count as part of your pay, you can be paid under minimum wage. two years ago, my friends made $4.50 an hour as waiters where they worked as base pay.

I do understand what you are saying about being tipped on quality of performance though. And if they are making at least minimum wage, then I totally agree. But from a standpoint of them making less than minimum wage, I don't think it would be a terrible idea to factor the gratuity into the bill.

Can any of you Brits chime in on what the quality of service is over there, seeing how you guys factor tips into the bill. Do you feel its less because of this?

**VeraDeMilo** · 02-10-2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

Why care about the service you give if you know you are getting 15%? No point in caring if you know it's worked in.

To be honest, I think servers make TOO much money, and they don't have to claim shit.

If they don't make $20 an hour, they throw a fit.

It's a $10 an hour job if you ask me, the guy cooking the food makes less and the guy managing the restaurant in most cases makes less too.

Quit crying, it's a job, if you make $12 an hour 1 day a week and $25 an hour the rest of the week big deal. You are still only claiming a fraction of it. Most servers live in income base housing, get a bridge card and have a few kids. They live off the government and make 30 or 40k a year with out any real training or schooling.

I tip well because I'm nice, but I think I'm going to quit.

You mind sharing where you got this information from? Now you are stereotyping people of certain occupations.

**Matt** · 02-10-2009, 02:30 PM

This has to be the worst thread ever, who gives a fuvk, im going else where...

**J-Dogg** · 02-10-2009, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by VeraDeMilo

You mind sharing where you got this information from? Now you are stereotyping people of certain occupations.

From the age of 19 to 25 I managed a restaurant and over saw 30+ servers.

Prior to that, I worked as a cook with those servers.

I've dated 20 servers over my life time.

Servers claim their pay based off their sales. Normally between 6 and 8 percent.

I've seen 1 get audited.

Servers made the most money of anyone I worked with in the restaurant field, complained the most and had the cheapest rent.

**J-Dogg** · 02-10-2009, 03:36 PM

Oh I use to send the servers home early because the 2 closers always wanted out early.

In 2 hours, I'd almost always make at lest $50 cash, tax free.

What's amazing, is they got paid cash every day. Got 2.65 so their checks were under a hundred bucks. But pop out a few kids and they get a 6k tax refund some how.