sorry

**tyward** · 04-02-2009, 01:01 PM

I agree with BigSexy, his explanation of the Confederate flag is right on. I would also add that if the north was just interested in freeing the slaves, why didn't they use the money that they made from the slave/rum trade to purchase their freedom? I'll bet that some serious money donated toward the problems of the agrarian south would have saved the 660,000 lives lost. Lastly, everything offends someone, somewhere...

***T-MOS*** · 04-02-2009, 01:04 PM

I like cake

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 01:08 PM

Oh wait you dont like the Dolphins so i cant fly my flag because you said so...

RA · 04-02-2009, 01:09 PM

Thats got to go Im a Lions fan.

Originally Posted by scerpico22

Oh wait you dont like the Dolphins so i cant fly my flag because you said so...

***T-MOS*** · 04-02-2009, 01:14 PM

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by roidattack

Thats got to go Im a Lions fan.

no sir...thats my team and I will fly my flag...because I am American and I can because I want to...

LOL...

and damn bro, the Lions...I feel for you roidattack!

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by NATE0406

how come its only racist when white ppl do something??? i live in the south. arkansas to be exact and i have met more racist african amercians and mexicans then white ppl. come on guys. the black panthers where a racist radical group but some how they where heros. and i see african americans always repping there flag or symbols.

Nobody called anyone racist. To whom are the Black Panthers heroes? Are you speaking for all black people and what gives you the credibility to do that? What symbols are African Americans repping that are overtly symbols of racism? You may have met more black and hispanic racist than white, but you are also white, I 'could' say the same thing, but I won't because I know all white people aren't racist although I've met my fair share. I also recognize the fact that racism exist across all colors.

Originally Posted by roidattack

I disagree. I see a lot of rebel flags (northern MI..go figure) on vehicles..its a given that they are normally on jacked up redneck looking type trucks but I dont believe that everyone that has one believes in white superiority..thats not the first thing that anyone thinks when they see the rebel flag...they do think that when seeing the swastika.

Again, I'm not calling everyone that reps that flag a racist. Re-read my posts. What I was saying is that 'I' consider that flag racist for what for the history of it and the fact that its used by extremist as such.

Originally Posted by prone2rage

What do you think when you see the flag above? Racism? Slavery? Hatred? White supremacy?

Something worse?

Now, what do you see on the flag above? The color Red? White? Blue? Thirteen stars?

Is that all? See anything else?

Look closer and take some time to think about what you're actually seeing... examine every detail of the flag.

The design of this flag actually tells the story about what the flag stood for, and my friend...

... it says NOTHING about racism, slavery, hatred or white supremacy!

You could remove all COLOR from this flag, leaving just the outline of the details, and still get the picture...

... if your mind wasn't already clouded with the LIES, STUPIDITY and TOTAL IGNORANCE of those who taught you what they have chosen to think it stands for... which is generally the negative attributes listed above.

First of all, the flag above is NOT the "Confederate Flag." It is the "Battle Flag of Northern Virginia." This design, however, is the one most synonymous with the term, and the one used in various forms on other Confederate Flags. It is also the one most hated by those who have no clue what it stands for or the story its design tells.

So look again at the flag and answer this question : Do you see a big letter "X" on it anywhere? How about if I lay that "X" down on its side like this? : See it now? The X is the big, blue bands outlined with white trim that the thirteen stars are placed on.

And do you know what these thirteen stars represent? They represent the thirteen original colonies that formed the first united states of this country. Knowing this is the key to understanding the design of this flag and its TRUE meaning.

The thirteen stars on this flag appear to lie on the blue X... but in reality, the X lies on the starts.

Do you remember from your grade-school years how the teachers would ask you to circle the right answers or picture on a page, or to put an X on the wrong answer or picture? That is the same, basic concept here... the stars on this flag are laid out in the pattern of an X, and the blue bands on this flag were put on the thirteen stars (which represent the 13 original, "united" states) to show that the southern states no longer wanted to be "united" with the northern states. The southern states withdrew from that union in a movement called "secession, which led to the Civil War."

That's it. Its just that simple. If this flag represented slavery, hatred, white supremacy, or something worse, it would contain pictures of the faces of those whom it stood against, and there would be a big X on their faces.

But that is NOT what is on this flag.

And that is NOT what this flag represents.

Nobody is debating how the flag was designed and why. The last time I looked the Nazi flag didn't have stereotypical images of Jews on it. You misinterpreted my posts. Their is no denying that white supremist groups use the Confederate flag as a source of racial solidarity and white pride. It was also used post-reconstruction as a symbol of their heritage which included (like it or not) a white supremacist ideology.

Originally Posted by prone2rage

Slavery has been dead for so long get over it you were never a slave nor will your children be...It is a flag that has meaning to people from the south, like other thread in the lounge if you dont like them walk away. don't post in them unless you are looking for a fight.

I'm not looking for a fight...internet tough guy. And again, how many times do I have to say this? This isn't about slavery!!!!

Originally Posted by ironmaiden708

What, people havn't gotten over an incident that happened over 130 years ago. They don't know anyone personally whos been there or know any1 who has talked to someone who has been there. These hypersensitive pricks need to get a hobby collecting bottle caps and get their oozing vag's checked out, leave this forum.

I wouldn't call slavery an "incident". But again, this isn't about slavery!!!

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by roidattack

I stand corrected.

Go back and read my entire thread Roid Attack!!! He took my quote out of context.

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

What I was saying is that 'I' consider that flag racist

And because YOU consider the flag racist therefore countrybhoy cant fly his flag in his avy?

Damn brother, the balls on you let me tell you...

RA · 04-02-2009, 01:22 PM

I know...can you believe I admitted that shit too..

Originally Posted by scerpico22

no sir...thats my team and I will fly my flag...because I am American and I can because I want to...

LOL...

and damn bro, the Lions...I feel for you roidattack!

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by roidattack

I know...can you believe I admitted that shit too..

bright side: you guys set an NFL record last year

RA · 04-02-2009, 01:29 PM

I did go back a re-read it when he pointed it out. I wanted to see the original so there was no misinterpretation. You basically said **** you to a lot of people including me...so yeah...when you opened the door people are going to step through.

Its proably time to quit the back and forth bickering and pm admin for whats going to be allowed on the board.

Originally Posted by BgMc31

Go back and read my entire thread Roid Attack!!! He took my quote out of context.

RA · 04-02-2009, 01:31 PM

You hadda remind me

I know we suck bad but we have the #1 pick and have you seen ford field...always look on the bright side..you have to as a loyal lions fan

...otherwise the depression starts creeping back in

Originally Posted by scerpico22

bright side: you guys set an NFL record last year

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

And because YOU consider the flag racist therefore countrybhoy cant fly his flag in his avy?

Damn brother, the balls on you let me tell you...

No he can do what he wants, but that isn't the point and you are being short sided for such an approach. For the millioneth time, regardless of the pride and positive history the flag represents, the flag also represents an oppressive regime with a basis in racial superiority. Deny it as much as you want but it's true.

This forum is supposed to be an open forum with lively debate with the intention not to offend but rather to discuss, correct me if I'm wrong. If someone proudly displays a Nazi flag, what's the difference. Again the Nazi regime instilled a since a racial pride in the German people and there are still Germans to this day the revel in that fact. Why is the Nazi flag offensive and the Rebel flag isn't?

***RAGE*** · 04-02-2009, 01:45 PM

For the millioneth time, regardless of the pride and positive history the flag represents, the flag also represents an oppressive regime with a basis in racial superiority. Deny it as much as you want but it's true.

Why because you say so

If this is correct you need to move back to the south and learn because you dont know shit..

***RAGE*** · 04-02-2009, 01:48 PM

This forum is supposed to be an open forum with lively debate with the intention not to offend but rather to discuss, correct me if I'm wrong. If someone proudly displays a Nazi flag, what's the difference. Again the Nazi regime instilled a since a racial pride in the German people and there are still Germans to this day the revel in that fact. Why is the Nazi flag offensive and the Rebel flag isn't?

Oh, I dont know, how many jews died? not even close

**tyward** · 04-02-2009, 01:50 PM

That's a good point, it just somehow seems worse. The offense is sometimes with the audience as well. On this board if I said I was a neo Nazi, baby killer, who was 6' tall and weighed 145 lbs., I would probably get a hundred flames about being so skinny. LOL

**UrRoyalHighness** · 04-02-2009, 01:56 PM

Who ever said that the Confederate Flag is like flying the Nazi Flag is not very smart and needs to grow up. It is saying you are proud of what ever roots you have. I wear a rebel flag at least once a week in PHX and never once has someone said anythign to me. I wear that ish to the gym and not even a bad look. WOW this county is really starting to breed soft women like men. (nothing against women). Go ahead and tell that to a soldier who fought for his country for freedom of men that he is a nazi for wearing a rebel shirt. What a joke. CountryBoy I give you respect for changing it because it may have offended ppl and taking their feelings into concideration. Kudos bro

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

No he can do what he wants, but that isn't the point and you are being short sided for such an approach. For the millioneth time, regardless of the pride and positive history the flag represents, the flag also represents an oppressive regime with a basis in racial superiority. Deny it as much as you want but it's true.

This forum is supposed to be an open forum with lively debate with the intention not to offend but rather to discuss, correct me if I'm wrong. If someone proudly displays a Nazi flag, what's the difference. Again the Nazi regime instilled a since a racial pride in the German people and there are still Germans to this day the revel in that fact. Why is the Nazi flag offensive and the Rebel flag isn't?

This is an open forum to debate and within debate are you that shallow to think that someone somewhere will not get offended? If you are offended make your point and move on, no need to bully people into changing the avy because you dont like whats up there...that simple. Who are you to assume what he/she has it up there for. As I said before if someone is into semiotics and puts up the swastika because they believe in its first true meaning of peace...they now have to take it down because you or someone feels other wise?

In this world my friend you will have an argument and representation for the offensive and non-offensive...you might as well get used to it if you plan on living here on earth.

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by prone2rage

Why because you say so

If this is correct you need to move back to the south and learn because you dont know shit..

http://www.teacheroz.com/reconstruction.htm

These are documents from both sides. They seem to prove my point. Google "Black Codes and Jim Crowe" laws.

Jim Crow laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

Black Codes: http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/bl...kcodes1865.htm

Pre-Civil War:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/slavery.htm

http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/geog...ve_laws_SC.htm

But again this thread wasn't about slavery but you brough it up.

Your turn....

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

http://www.teacheroz.com/reconstruction.htm

These are documents from both sides. They seem to prove my point. Google "Black Codes and Jim Crowe" laws.

Pre-Civil War:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/slavery.htm

http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/geog...ve_laws_SC.htm

Your turn....

The swastika (from Sanskrit svástika स्वस्तिक) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either right-facing (卐) form or its mirrored left-facing (卍) form. Archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates from the Neolithic period. It occurs mainly in the modern day culture of India, sometimes as a geometrical motif and sometimes as a religious symbol. It remains widely used in Eastern religions / Dharmic religion such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

Though once commonly used all over much of the world without stigma, because of its iconic usage in Nazi Germany the symbol has become stigmatized in the Western world, notably even outlawed in Germany.

So with that...and Im Buddist and I put it up to show my "RELIGIOUS" pride I must take its down because it outlawed in Germany and BgMc31 dose not like it?

YOUR TURN...

***RAGE*** · 04-02-2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

http://www.teacheroz.com/reconstruction.htm

These are documents from both sides. They seem to prove my point. Google "Black Codes and Jim Crowe" laws.

Jim Crow laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

Black Codes: http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/bl...kcodes1865.htm

Pre-Civil War:

http://www.civilwarhome.com/slavery.htm

http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/geog...ve_laws_SC.htm

But again this thread wasn't about slavery but you brough it up.

Your turn....

I am not going to read this bullshit because I dont care, I did not bring up slavery, you did. I said you were never be a slave nor will your children be slaves. Then I said get over it!!!!!!!

Now you want to post a bunch of websites which I could google and find everything that debates what you posted and we can go around and round with this all day long. you are tyring to compair the confederate flag with the nazi flag and now you want to put it on whites against blacks....

**UrRoyalHighness** · 04-02-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by prone2rage

I am not going to read this bullshit because I dont care, I did not bring up slavery, you did. I said you were never be a slave nor will your children be slaves. Then I said get over it!!!!!!!

Now you want to post a bunch of websites which I could google and find everything that debates what you posted and we can go around and round with this all day long. you are tyring to compair the confederate flag with the nazi flag and now you want to put it on whites against blacks....

Super Burn. good job Prone

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

The swastika (from Sanskrit svástika स्वस्तिक) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either right-facing (卐) form or its mirrored left-facing (卍) form. Archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates from the Neolithic period. It occurs mainly in the modern day culture of India, sometimes as a geometrical motif and sometimes as a religious symbol. It remains widely used in Eastern religions / Dharmic religion such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

Though once commonly used all over much of the world without stigma, because of its iconic usage in Nazi Germany the symbol has become stigmatized in the Western world, notably even outlawed in Germany.

So with that...and Im Buddist and I put it up to show my "RELIGIOUS" pride I must take its down because it outlawed in Germany and BgMc31 dose not like it?

YOUR TURN...

A little late to get into the convo brotha and not know what was previously said. I, along with other forum members, already point this issue out. Go back and read the other posts. Members of this board in the past have been asked to take down Nazi regalia many times. So this is no different.

Originally Posted by prone2rage

I am not going to read this bullshit because I dont care, I did not bring up slavery, you did. I said you were never be a slave nor will your children be slaves. Then I said get over it!!!!!!!

Now you want to post a bunch of websites which I could google and find everything that debates what you posted and we can go around and round with this all day long. you are tyring to compair the confederate flag with the nazi flag and now you want to put it on whites against blacks....

Your comment about me and my children never being slaves was brought up long before I mentioned slavery. As a matter of fact my last post was the 1st I commented on southern slavery.

The reason why I put up those sites is because you said I don't know shit and maybe I should move back down south. Well, I was being proactive, because if I would have written everything I know about the subject, you would have said I made it up as pure conjecture so I decided to do what most people do in order to prove a point...site sources!! Something you might want to look into doing.

Originally Posted by UrRoyalHighness

Super Burn. good job Prone

Simple minds think alike...

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

No he can do what he wants, but that isn't the point and you are being short sided for such an approach. For the millioneth time, regardless of the pride and positive history the flag represents, the flag also represents an oppressive regime with a basis in racial superiority. Deny it as much as you want but it's true.

This forum is supposed to be an open forum with lively debate with the intention not to offend but rather to discuss, correct me if I'm wrong. If someone proudly displays a Nazi flag, what's the difference. Again the Nazi regime instilled a since a racial pride in the German people and there are still Germans to this day the revel in that fact. Why is the Nazi flag offensive and the Rebel flag isn't?

this is what really gets me, you choose to simply dismiss what one side believes in just because you see it another way...this my friend is your flat out ignorance.

everyone does not see the world through YOUR eyes.

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

A little late to get into the convo brotha and not know what was previously said.

i little late to get into the convo? what a douche you are, i suggest YOU go back and take look at my posts in this thread...ive been active in this conversation since early this morning, 11:18am to be exact.

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by prone2rage

Oh, I dont know, how many jews died? not even close

Originally Posted by UrRoyalHighness

Who ever said that the Confederate Flag is like flying the Nazi Flag is not very smart and needs to grow up. It is saying you are proud of what ever roots you have. I wear a rebel flag at least once a week in PHX and never once has someone said anythign to me. I wear that ish to the gym and not even a bad look. WOW this county is really starting to breed soft women like men. (nothing against women). Go ahead and tell that to a soldier who fought for his country for freedom of men that he is a nazi for wearing a rebel shirt. What a joke. CountryBoy I give you respect for changing it because it may have offended ppl and taking their feelings into concideration. Kudos bro

So again with the immaturity comments. The level of my responses proves that I am not immature. If you are going to attempt to insult me, a least come up with something that is provable. Good for you for wearing your rebel flag and no one ever says anything to you. That is the public and you have the right to your opinion, this is a member based forum. Something that you have to sign up for. Part of the rules, how I understand them, indicates that no outward shows of disrespect or offensive material. I see people here in Vegas wear rebel flags all the time. I've had beers with them, soldiers included and I've voiced my opinion to those I have known or spoken to. What, am I'm supposed to fear a soldier in a rebel t-shirt? Why?

And now you're calling me soft for standing up against this, c'mon dude, you don't know me, so don't make generalizations. Keep it cordial. This is a heated intellectual debate, so let's keep it that way.

Originally Posted by scerpico22

This is an open forum to debate and within debate are you that shallow to think that someone somewhere will not get offended? If you are offended make your point and move on, no need to bully people into changing the avy because you dont like whats up there...that simple. Who are you to assume what he/she has it up there for. As I said before if someone is into semiotics and puts up the swastika because they believe in its first true meaning of peace...they now have to take it down because you or someone feels other wise?

In this world my friend you will have an argument and representation for the offensive and non-offensive...you might as well get used to it if you plan on living here on earth.

I don't know how old you are, brotha, but I'm 36 and I consider myself well travel. I group in the military and having been a professional athlete and a bit successful afterwards, I've travelled quite extensively. I'm not easily offended at all. This is something that does get me going though.

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

i little late to get into the convo? what a douche you are, i suggest YOU go back and take look at my posts in this thread...ive been active in this conversation since early this morning, 11:18am to be exact.

My bad, brotha, I meant to comment on another persons response. How does that make me a douche and why do you feel the need to get personal? Have I stooped to calling you names? What's the point in that?

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 04-02-2009, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

I got you good in your own thread lol...

lol I know! I had to get you back somehow...haha

**Matt** · 04-02-2009, 03:21 PM

This is great, anyone got popcorn??

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

this is what really gets me, you choose to simply dismiss what one side believes in just because you see it another way...this my friend is your flat out ignorance.

everyone does not see the world through YOUR eyes.

I've sited why the flag demonstrates oppression, using credible sources. How does that make me ignorant? Ignorance implies that I lack knowledge. Clearly, I've shown that I recognize the positive affects of the flag, but you fail to recognize the negative. Again with the name calling, what's the purpose in that in a debate. It doesn't make your argument any stronger. As a matter of fact, it lessens it.

***RAGE*** · 04-02-2009, 03:24 PM

Your comment about me and my children never being slaves was brought up long before I mentioned slavery. As a matter of fact my last post was the 1st I commented on southern slavery. post 52 you are talking about slavery

The reason why I put up those sites is because you said I don't know shit and maybe I should move back down south. Well, I was being proactive, because if I would have written everything I know about the subject, you would have said I made it up as pure conjecture so I decided to do what most people do in order to prove a point...site sources!! Something you might want to look into doing.

dont need to you post up bullshit websites to make a point...Like I said before I can post up some bullshit from google and it proves what nothing that you are talking about....

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

My bad, brotha, I meant to comment on another persons response. How does that make me a douche and why do you feel the need to get personal? Have I stooped to calling you names? What's the point in that?

hmmm, i dont know maybe this had something to do with it?

"while I admire and respect Countrybhoys apology and I accept it, I send all the other cats standing up for it a big 'FVCK YOU'!!!!"

**Noles12** · 04-02-2009, 03:27 PM

Holy shlt this apology for an avatar turned into a 3 page 100+post argument on slavery, racism, and other random things.

**Matt** · 04-02-2009, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

hmmm, i dont know maybe this had something to do with it?

"while I admire and respect Countrybhoys apology and I accept it, I send all the other cats standing up for it a big 'FVCK YOU'!!!!"

Hahahaha

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by scerpico22

hmmm, i dont know maybe this had something to do with it?

"while I admire and respect Countrybhoys apology and I accept it, I send all the other cats standing up for it a big 'FVCK YOU'!!!!"

I was merely responding to the previous comments made by others. But since when is telling somebody "Fvck You' considered name calling? True it is offensive and maybe I'm splitting hairs, but in no way have I resorted to insulting someone's intelligence or stooped to level of calling someone a douche? How many times in this thread have you resorted to name calling while I have not?

**Matt** · 04-02-2009, 03:29 PM

French people should all be shot...

Die frogs

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

I've sited why the flag demonstrates oppression, using credible sources. How does that make me ignorant? Ignorance implies that I lack knowledge. Clearly, I've shown that I recognize the positive affects of the flag, but you fail to recognize the negative. Again with the name calling, what's the purpose in that in a debate. It doesn't make your argument any stronger. As a matter of fact, it lessens it.

now you are telling me what I fail to recognize? no sir, i have clearly stated that I recognize both sides.

my point is simple...YOU or anyone cannot assume another mans intentions or beliefs. if countrybhoy chooses to fly his confederate flag in his avy because is proud of his southern heritage, why and Gods name must he take it down because a few feel they are offended because what they believe it represents.

this is what i dont get, so maybe with your lack of ignorance you can explain it to me?

**BgMc31** · 04-02-2009, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by prone2rage

dont need to you post up bullshit websites to make a point...Like I said before I can post up some bullshit from google and it proves what nothing that you are talking about....

Isn't that the point of a debate, to cite sources that prove our points in order to make a point? Otherwise, if we went on he said/he said, this debate would be pointless. If you are trying to sway someone to see your point of view then you need more than just "cuz I said so". Show me why I am wrong and if I see it that way, I'll admit it. I've been wrong before and swayed otherwise. Just ask Roidattack, Bigsexxy, and others. I'm not above that, and I am not ashamed to admit it. The question is, are you?

**scerpico22** · 04-02-2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

I was merely responding to the previous comments made by others. But since when is telling somebody "Fvck You' considered name calling? True it is offensive and maybe I'm splitting hairs, but in no way have I resorted to insulting someone's intelligence or stooped to level of calling someone a douche? How many times in this thread have you resorted to name calling while I have not?

dude, calling someone a douche is stooping to a low level and a flat out fvck you is not worse or lets say just as bad.

well the horse you sit on is mighty high my friend...and yes, you are still are a douche and i believe that is a grand total of 3 insults thank you!