Any fish tank / aquarium owners ?

**Polska** · 11-13-2009, 03:44 PM

I am looking to get into this hobby but have no idea where to start. Should I invest in a fresh water or salt water aquarium? I've heard the salt water fish are a lot nicer looking but it takes more time and money maintaining a salt water tank. How much money would I approximately need to spend to get a larger tank (50+ gallon ?) with fish, live plants, etc. Any aquarium hobbyists want to give me some advice? Thanks

**Mooseman33** · 11-13-2009, 03:54 PM

salt water tanks are really great. i have a 120 gallon salt water tank that is more customed towards a reef tank..
do not buy from a store, look at craigslist or newspaper. u will have to spend some coin as the tank is cheap but the filter system and lights is where it gets costly.

fish are expensive however i catch my own as i life on the intercoastal in ft. lauderdale.

u will have to spend some time each week making sure everything is good with the water..

**jccnewbie** · 11-13-2009, 03:56 PM

Saltwater tanks are a lot of work bro. If you are new to this I wouldn't recommend jumping into saltwater until you have a few years of practice with some cheaper set ups. Don't go crazy with live plants and all that junk, you will need special lighting and special gravel. I would recommend startting with a 10-20 gallon tank with some cheap fish whale you are learning. chemical changes in a large tank can be costly and an overcorrection even worse, not to mention fish loss. Get your feet wet first before you invest in something that you may not even like once you get started.

BG · 11-13-2009, 03:59 PM

A 50 gallon is small for a tank, you would definitly have to go fresh. I have a 50 salt reef tank and its SO hard to keep up with. Water parameters change so quickly that it causes problems. Ive lost about $1500 in the past years in fish and coral. My 2 fresh water tanks are bullet proof. Thing is not to skimp when you buy your filters and other equipment, it will save you head aches down the road.

Heres some pics....lmk if you have any other questions...

BG · 11-13-2009, 04:02 PM

A few more, thats my salt 50 gal.

**big_k** · 11-13-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by BG

A 50 gallon is small for a tank, you would definitly have to go fresh. I have a 50 salt reef tank and its SO hard to keep up with. Water parameters change so quickly that it causes problems. Ive lost about $1500 in the past years in fish and coral. My 2 fresh water tanks are bullet proof. Thing is not to skimp when you buy your filters and other equipment, it will save you head aches down the road.

Heres some pics....lmk if you have any other questions...

Thats some pretty good looking coral and fish you got BG. I've always wanted a Salt Water tank, maybe I will try Mooseman's method of catching your own. I am coastal too.

BG · 11-13-2009, 04:09 PM

Heres my fresh water... first 3 are my 75 gal with a red devil, Jack Dempsey and a few more fish, the 4th is my African ciclid tank, 55 gal.

BG · 11-13-2009, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by big_k

Thats some pretty good looking coral and fish you got BG. I've always wanted a Salt Water tank, maybe I will try Mooseman's method of catching your own. I am coastal too.

You would have to keep your water real close to their natural and aclimate them well. Captive bread seem to do much better. Salts alot of work, approx 2 hours ew once set up.

**Mooseman33** · 11-13-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by BG

A 50 gallon is small for a tank, you would definitly have to go fresh. I have a 50 salt reef tank and its SO hard to keep up with. Water parameters change so quickly that it causes problems. Ive lost about $1500 in the past years in fish and coral. My 2 fresh water tanks are bullet proof. Thing is not to skimp when you buy your filters and other equipment, it will save you head aches down the road.

Heres some pics....lmk if you have any other questions...

perfect post man.

the tank is cheap, the lights and filters will cost some nice coin..

real nice setups BG, i will get some pics of mine up also, reef tanks come alive when the lights are on..
do u have awater cooler on ur reef setup?

mine just went out, cost me couple hundred to replace, talk about a pain in the ass..

**Mooseman33** · 11-13-2009, 04:18 PM

and learning on freshwater will do nothing in helping u with saltwater.
they are 2 complete different animals.

freshwater is a joke to take care off, as BG said.

start with a small saltwater tank man, throw some tangs in there and learn as u go..

BG · 11-13-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

mine just went out, cost me couple hundred to replace, talk about a pain in the ass..

No this was my starter tank, had it about a year, really just got the hang of it. Going to start a 90 gal soon and move this tank into it. I just lost my first and fav fish last week along with a coral banded shrimp and two dragonets. Sucked, all because my PH dropped and I didnt catch it!!

Post some pics, cant wait.

**stack_it** · 11-13-2009, 04:28 PM

If you've got the money and time go saltwater. I had a 55 gallon freshwater for a few years. Practically no maintenance and really cheap to upkeep. If your not sure you will like it I would suggest freshwater first. It would suck to spend a few thousand on a saltwater tank and then not enjoy the hobby.

BG · 11-13-2009, 04:30 PM

This is the best place to go http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/index.php, they have 101 starter list , read it many times !!!

BG · 11-13-2009, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by stack_it

It would suck to spend a few thousand on a saltwater tank and then not enjoy the hobby.

I agree, it takes dedication, sometimes I think about giving mine away.

**Polska** · 11-13-2009, 04:32 PM

BG That salt water tank looks amazing.

I've got a guy offering me a 75 gallon tank with canopy and stand with one 10000k and one actinic light both 48", with heater and one topfin 60G filter for $300. I figure I can talk him down to $200. Is that a good price?

**Polska** · 11-13-2009, 04:34 PM

Heres a (shitty) pic:

**stack_it** · 11-13-2009, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Polska

BG That salt water tank looks amazing.

I've got a guy offering me a 75 gallon tank with canopy and stand with one 10000k and one actinic light both 48", with heater and one topfin 60G filter for $300. I figure I can talk him down to $200. Is that a good price?

Yes that's very cheap

BG · 11-13-2009, 05:46 PM

Ya thats not bad, I would probably buy it.

**MuscleScience** · 11-13-2009, 05:51 PM

I have had salt and fresh water tanks. Start out with freshwater for sure. To see if you like it and to basically learn with a cheaper set up. Salt water can get expensive and you dont want your learning curve to be on 100 dollar fish. Also the bigger the tank the more stable the system will be once it is set up. Which basically means less work to keep the tank within a good operating range. It will take some trial and error at first but once you get the basics down and learn to know the signs of an unhealthy tank its a really fun hobby and is a great stress reliever.

**Hazard** · 11-13-2009, 06:39 PM

I have always loved fish and always wanted a saltwater tank. I've had a couple freshwater tanks and gave the hobby up. I was actually into garden ponds with koi too..... gave that up also. Fish are a lot of work and I just don't have the time anymore..... so rather than have it for the hell of it and risk the fish..... I just don't doit.

My ideal set up:

100 gallon saltwater tank
Poisonous lion fish
Live coral
Someone hired to take care of the fish and tank...... lol

~Haz~

**collar** · 11-13-2009, 10:11 PM

one day when i have my own house, i am going have a pond and get a few koi fish.

thats my love.

**thai-lan** · 11-13-2009, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

and learning on freshwater will do nothing in helping u with saltwater.
they are 2 complete different animals.

freshwater is a joke to take care off, as BG said.

start with a small saltwater tank man, throw some tangs in there and learn as u go..

lol dont buy tangs !! they arent for beginners

**Oranges** · 11-14-2009, 12:50 AM

If your doing a saltwater tank, bigger is better as water parameters tend to stay more steady. I top up water every day but beside that and cleaning algae of the glass I don't do much maintenance. I do a 20% water change every 2 months. I havnt had a fish die or get sick for nearly one and a half years, the key is to invest in a good set-up with plenty of live-rock, extra filter floss, skimmer, UV sterilizer and if you don't want corals you can save a lot on lighting and can get away with higher water temperatures without the need to invest in a costly chiller.

I spent $250 on the whole set up you see in the attached picture, but rocks and fish are cheap as I live in Thailand.

**hockeyguy** · 11-14-2009, 01:32 AM

i have a 75 reef set up with a 20 gal sump and i love it. If your ready for the work it's a great hobby

**Bojangles69** · 11-14-2009, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Polska

I am looking to get into this hobby but have no idea where to start. Should I invest in a fresh water or salt water aquarium? I've heard the salt water fish are a lot nicer looking but it takes more time and money maintaining a salt water tank. How much money would I approximately need to spend to get a larger tank (50+ gallon ?) with fish, live plants, etc. Any aquarium hobbyists want to give me some advice? Thanks

Thats a HUGE myth about more time for saltwater, but it IS absolutely more money, a good deal more.

I had salt water for a few years but went back to fresh. My brother currently has a 60gallon saltwater set up. But BOTH of us do nothing to take care of our fish, almost nothing at all except feed them.

The key with ANY set up is overfiltration, protein skimmers, and a jet on the bottom (you always want a current flowing over the gravel - THIS is what actually keeps the tank clean, it will blow everything that wants to settle back up and into the filters). People who don't have jets on the bottom often have a disgusting film of old food, shit and debree that settles and rots in the gravel.
You want all that crap to make way into the filter so absolutely get a jet. Also you will almost never need to vacuum the tank doing this.

Next (these are the best tips I've learned over years and years), AIR SEAL the hood or just line the recessed part of the top of the tanks with a film of hot glue. But do not have any open/exposed areas on the top of the tank bigger then a syringe hole.
If you don't do this, water will evaporate (water evaporates fast in fish tanks because of the air bubbles, it simulates boiling and moves water particles outside the tank) very fast and you will need to retop it every week. It becomes a pain in the ass so just airseal it. Ideally though you should still do water changes, anyone will recommend it but you also must remember a protein skimmer and 200%-300% filtration almost makes water changes completely uneccessary. I've gone 6 months without doing one and prob could have went a year (with checking water levels too, ammonia, nitrates/ites and all that was perfect).

But if you get a 50 gallon tank, I'd get 150 gallons worth of filtration. MOST OF ALL, do not overpopulate the tank. Thats ALWAYS the #1 reason people have problems. Less fish always = cleaner water. And buy your activated carbon in bulk from ebay. You will save money over time instead of changing filters, buy the reusable ones. Just clean the polyster filter under the sink with hot water, refill it with fresh carbon and you will save a buttload of money over time. Plus you can be more generous with the carbon which also helps keep all the toxic shit broken down. The nonresusable filters NEVER have enough carbon in them, they are shit.
I wouldn't even use them if they were the same price.

Most people have more problems with the water getting acidic then basic. Very small amounts of baking soda can correct this. If the water is under 5.2 don't use baking soda cause the amount to correct the ph will become toxic to the fish (carbon dioxide is released in the tank which can kill fish). If its over 5.2 its usually never a problem.

And the second chemical I recommend most is cycle (bacteria). Cycle always addresses the source of water problems while 90% of the chemicals on the market address symptoms of what the cycle fixes completely (the nitrogen cycle). If you find your ammonia is high dont buy ammolock buy cycle. If acidity is low use the baking soda. If nitrates our high only a water change will fix that but thats usually the least common of all the problems. Ammonia and a low ph are usually number one.
As far as fish I can't recommend any but I'll put it this way and never forget (for fresh water).
There is community fish, semi-aggressive and aggressive.

The 3 main categories. What VERY FEW people realize is 2 things, 1 more obvious one less obvious.
Community are cheapest, semi-aggressive a bit more expensive, aggressive the most expensive but MOST IMPORTANTLY.

Community fish are often weak sickly bastards. Semi aggressive are more hardy but still die quite a bit. Aggressive fish are almost impossible to kill. The less aggressive a fish species is, for some reason the more sensitive it is to slight changes in water chemistry. The ph can change .2 on the scale and you'll see community fish dropping left and right.
With aggressive fish I've had the ph change as much as 1.5 in one day and not had a single fish die. So remember, just from my experience the aggressive fish are absolutely worth the money. They look nicer, and tend to live longer.

Thats about all I can think of for now, feel free to ask any more questions you have.

**romo6** · 11-14-2009, 05:59 PM

I have a 90 gallon fresh with two tiger oscars.

**lovbyts** · 11-15-2009, 06:18 AM

I had fish once. I though it would be cool. I let them all die and flushed them. What a PITA. I like my pets now. Python and lizard. Low maintenance and about as friendly as fish except I can handle them. LOL I like being able to leave for a few days, a week, a month and not worry about the pets.

**Polska** · 11-15-2009, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bojangles69

Whole post

Bo, thanks for the tips, I'll definitely hit you up with more questions if I have them. I still can't decide between fresh water or salt. What made you go back to fresh?

**hockeyguy** · 11-16-2009, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Bojangles69

Thats a HUGE myth about more time for saltwater, but it IS absolutely more money, a good deal more.

I had salt water for a few years but went back to fresh. My brother currently has a 60gallon saltwater set up. But BOTH of us do nothing to take care of our fish, almost nothing at all except feed them.

The key with ANY set up is overfiltration, protein skimmers, and a jet on the bottom (you always want a current flowing over the gravel - THIS is what actually keeps the tank clean, it will blow everything that wants to settle back up and into the filters). People who don't have jets on the bottom often have a disgusting film of old food, shit and debree that settles and rots in the gravel.
You want all that crap to make way into the filter so absolutely get a jet. Also you will almost never need to vacuum the tank doing this.

Next (these are the best tips I've learned over years and years), AIR SEAL the hood or just line the recessed part of the top of the tanks with a film of hot glue. But do not have any open/exposed areas on the top of the tank bigger then a syringe hole.
If you don't do this, water will evaporate (water evaporates fast in fish tanks because of the air bubbles, it simulates boiling and moves water particles outside the tank) very fast and you will need to retop it every week. It becomes a pain in the ass so just airseal it. Ideally though you should still do water changes, anyone will recommend it but you also must remember a protein skimmer and 200%-300% filtration almost makes water changes completely uneccessary. I've gone 6 months without doing one and prob could have went a year (with checking water levels too, ammonia, nitrates/ites and all that was perfect).

But if you get a 50 gallon tank, I'd get 150 gallons worth of filtration. MOST OF ALL, do not overpopulate the tank. Thats ALWAYS the #1 reason people have problems. Less fish always = cleaner water. And buy your activated carbon in bulk from ebay. You will save money over time instead of changing filters, buy the reusable ones. Just clean the polyster filter under the sink with hot water, refill it with fresh carbon and you will save a buttload of money over time. Plus you can be more generous with the carbon which also helps keep all the toxic shit broken down. The nonresusable filters NEVER have enough carbon in them, they are shit.
I wouldn't even use them if they were the same price.

Most people have more problems with the water getting acidic then basic. Very small amounts of baking soda can correct this. If the water is under 5.2 don't use baking soda cause the amount to correct the ph will become toxic to the fish (carbon dioxide is released in the tank which can kill fish). If its over 5.2 its usually never a problem.

And the second chemical I recommend most is cycle (bacteria). Cycle always addresses the source of water problems while 90% of the chemicals on the market address symptoms of what the cycle fixes completely (the nitrogen cycle). If you find your ammonia is high dont buy ammolock buy cycle. If acidity is low use the baking soda. If nitrates our high only a water change will fix that but thats usually the least common of all the problems. Ammonia and a low ph are usually number one.
As far as fish I can't recommend any but I'll put it this way and never forget (for fresh water).
There is community fish, semi-aggressive and aggressive.

The 3 main categories. What VERY FEW people realize is 2 things, 1 more obvious one less obvious.
Community are cheapest, semi-aggressive a bit more expensive, aggressive the most expensive but MOST IMPORTANTLY.

Community fish are often weak sickly bastards. Semi aggressive are more hardy but still die quite a bit. Aggressive fish are almost impossible to kill. The less aggressive a fish species is, for some reason the more sensitive it is to slight changes in water chemistry. The ph can change .2 on the scale and you'll see community fish dropping left and right.
With aggressive fish I've had the ph change as much as 1.5 in one day and not had a single fish die. So remember, just from my experience the aggressive fish are absolutely worth the money. They look nicer, and tend to live longer.

Thats about all I can think of for now, feel free to ask any more questions you have.

you seem to know your stuff. But I'm curious how you get away with having a jet blowing on your live sand all the time. Live sand is so fine and will leave a cloudy tank if you have it blowing on it directly? Did you just use gravel? Also do you have a reef set or just a fish only tank? Any pics?

**hockeyguy** · 11-16-2009, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by BG

This is the best place to go http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/index.php, they have 101 starter list , read it many times !!!

x2 Great site for information.

**optimus** · 11-29-2009, 04:49 PM

Great tank BG. Do you have a sump/ or refuge to help with keeping up the pod population and water params? How long have you had the mandarin? Hippo tangs are one of my favorite fish. Do you have any blenny? They are great little fish.

BG · 11-29-2009, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by optimus

Great tank BG. Do you have a sump/ or refuge to help with keeping up the pod population and water params? How long have you had the mandarin? Hippo tangs are one of my favorite fish. Do you have any blenny? They are great little fish.

The new tank will have a refuge, this was just my starter tank. I just had a ph problem from doing a few water changes with out a buffer. I lost my cbs, lawnmower, mandrin (blue), I wish the hippo went , I hate it. I cried a little for my lawnmower, I could call him to eat and he went to the same spot everytime. I got another but its not the same.

Heres my lawnmower RIP......

**jbm** · 11-29-2009, 10:25 PM

**jbm** · 11-29-2009, 10:25 PM

**jbm** · 11-29-2009, 10:27 PM

**optimus** · 11-30-2009, 04:01 PM

Sorry about your lawnmower blenny. Those guys have great personalities. I lost my fish cause of spikes in the water params. I also lost most of my coral too. So I took my tank down because of it. I felt bad that I didn't catch it in time, as well as all the money that was being literally flushed. I plan on trying again after school is done.

From the pics your tank looks great. Congrats