"Warning" Gay Marriage Discussion

**Times Roman** · 08-01-2011, 08:28 PM

this is like the pro life/decision issue. Highly flamable, and something the government really has no right to stick it's nose into.

and to someone way at the top... if I want to use a label "bible thumper", I'm going to do it. It is NOT as you describe. And if you look at it, any general description of any group of people will piss someone off. so if they want to get pissed off, let em. Some people just look for a reason to bitch

**Shol'va** · 08-01-2011, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by amnkeefe

I think the next/current scapegoat is Islam. Personally I am not for any religion but I don't care if any one else is.

You bring up a point. Before 9-11 I don't think Americans knew anything about Islam nor the Koran. Now we are bombarded by it and how that faith has produced all these suicide bombers, and has people wondering what kind of a religion preaches people to blow themselves and everyone else up like that, for 96 give or take, slightly wounded from flying suicide bombers, virgin girls. But again you have to read who is saying what about whom and for what ulterior motive. It is up to us to separate truth from the bull. If everyone would just step back and realize we are all in this together and quit trying to think that one faith or body type or ethnic persuasion, sexual orientation, etc, is superior than the other and accept each other as equals, we could settle all this petty Bullcrap. But history has shown us time and again that ain't gonna happen. So, let the raping , pillaging, and plundering continue, and the denials of same sex marriage and I'll watch it all go down on Fox News cause they claim to be All Fair And Balanced. lol

**spywizard** · 08-01-2011, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

this is like the pro life/decision issue. Highly flamable, and something the government really has no right to stick it's nose into.

and to someone way at the top... if I want to use a label "bible thumper", I'm going to do it. It is NOT as you describe. And if you look at it, any general description of any group of people will piss someone off. so if they want to get pissed off, let em. Some people just look for a reason to bitch

Bigotry as a definition is what i posted right from the dictionary.. it's not that long ago that it was ok, or socially acceptable to call people names, now many use terms like, uneducated, ignorant and whatnot..

"I believe in calling a spade a spade etc.. " old quote, means even a pedo thinks they are in the right..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...ve_Association

**amnkeefe** · 08-01-2011, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

You bring up a point. Before 9-11 I don't think Americans knew anything about Islam nor the Koran. Now we are bombarded by it and how that faith has produced all these suicide bombers, and has people wondering what kind of a religion preaches people to blow themselves and everyone else up like that, for 96 give or take, slightly wounded from flying suicide bombers, virgin girls. But again you have to read who is saying what about whom and for what ulterior motive. It is up to us to separate truth from the bull. If everyone would just step back and realize we are all in this together and quit trying to think that one faith or body type or ethnic persuasion, sexual orientation, etc, is superior than the other and accept each other as equals, we could settle all this petty Bullcrap. But history has shown us time and again that ain't gonna happen. So, let the raping , pillaging, and plundering continue, and the denials of same sex marriage and I'll watch it all go down on Fox News cause they claim to be All Fair And Balanced. lol

The funny yet sad part of that is that the old testament of the Bible and the Koran have SO MANY similarities. If we could focus on the positive instead of the negative we would be better off. However, happiness doesn't sell news.

**Times Roman** · 08-02-2011, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by amnkeefe

The funny yet sad part of that is that the old testament of the Bible and the Koran have SO MANY similarities. If we could focus on the positive instead of the negative we would be better off. However, happiness doesn't sell news.

I know a few people, and have heard many more, that have either read or claimed to have read the english version of the Koran. Most say it is not as peaceful as some would want us to believe.

I think it's time I find out for myself. here soon, I think I will have to buy, and read a version.

**Nooomoto** · 08-02-2011, 12:32 AM

Who the hell wants to get married anyway? Have you ever hung out with married people? Lame.

**wmaousley** · 08-02-2011, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by spywizard

Where are our muslim brothers at???

If you don't stand for something, you'll laydown for anything...

Calling people "Bible Thumpers" is the same as calling homosexuals

"queer, faggots"

same as using the words like "Nazi, communist, rednecks, trailer trash etc"

Attempting to label someone with a distasteful or emotional word is simply trying to demean and or lessen them if they do not adhere or have the same values as you..

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

So, if we are going to have a discussion/debate about this, lets talk about the benefits and or advantages to the process..

We are here, well I am here. My religion has taught me homosexuality is a sin, and one who embraces this practice will go to hell. Having said that, personally I don't give a damn who anyone marries or the sexual preferences of anyone. Its not how I look at people.

**Times Roman** · 08-02-2011, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by wmaousley

We are here, well I am here. My religion has taught me homosexuality is a sin, and one who embraces this practice will go to hell. Having said that, personally I don't give a damn who anyone marries or the sexual preferences of anyone. Its not how I look at people.

if that is true, and I imagine it is, then how do muslims explain the very high rate of homosexuality? last statistic is a majority of muslim men engage in homosexual activity. or is it just a form of hypocracy? not trying to slam you, but you do have to admit that if it is such a terrible sin, then why do the majority of muslim men (here) engage in it?
or is homosexuality a "minor" sin in the muslim world?

**Times Roman** · 08-02-2011, 03:05 AM

^i'm not talking worldwide muslims, just the ones i know about here in afghanistan...

**Shol'va** · 08-02-2011, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

^i'm not talking worldwide muslims, just the ones i know about here in afghanistan...

TR do you think it is possible that maybe what you are seeing in that part of the muslim world Aka Afghan Land, that maybe it is not practicing homosexuality per sei but rather the elder men just teaching the young, tight holed virgin boys what not to do later in life. This showing them first hand on a one to one and two to one personal level how this isn't acceptable. But boys being boys, some of them just needing much more man on boy training to fully grasp the severity of the issue. So maybe it is just an educational issue you are seeing in progress and not rampant homosexuality as you might otherwise think that it is?

**Times Roman** · 08-02-2011, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

TR do you think it is possible that maybe what you are seeing in that part of the muslim world Aka Afghan Land, that maybe it is not practicing homosexuality per sei but rather the elder men just teaching the young, tight holed virgin boys what not to do later in life. This showing them first hand on a one to one and two to one personal level how this isn't acceptable. But boys being boys, some of them just needing much more man on boy training to fully grasp the severity of the issue. So maybe it is just an educational issue you are seeing in progress and not rampant homosexuality as you might otherwise think that it is?

pedophilia between older men and younger boys is a semi common practice. that is one independent issue. they even have terms for it, and as a part of their custom, has been in practice for a long time.
another issue is that, and it's no secret here, that gay sex between young men is fairly common.

this is clearly NOT teaching them what not to do (double negative).

it is a form of hypocracy. when the men go on vacation, they leave their women folk behind. then they go drinking and whoring as much as they want, all they can handle. we had one guy come back from vacation (not married) telling us he got "married" fifteen (15) times. he can't quite bring himself to say he fukked 15 times, with women he wasn't married to, so he just says he got married 15 times, then starts laughing like he is getting away with something.

the environment here is so "oppressive" that anytime the men get away from prying eyes of family and neighbors, they go fukken nutts and do everything exactly opposite from what they would do if they were home.

**spywizard** · 08-02-2011, 10:28 AM

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1111114493161

Asked about Iran Executing Gays, "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country," Mr Ahmadinejad said

now i don't get it who's correct??

**Shol'va** · 08-02-2011, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by spywizard

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1111114493161

Asked about Iran Executing Gays, "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country," Mr Ahmadinejad said

now i don't get it who's correct??

I think what Mr. Im-a-nut-job meant to say was that in Iran Homosexuals keep extremely underground for fear of death and that keeps them out of site therefore we have none here. Not to mention that they don't call them homosexuals over there so since they are not called that then none exist. He's a piss poor politician, but when it all boils down to it there are only two things that his people don't like about him...his face.

**zimmy** · 08-02-2011, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman

Should gays be allowed to get married? Absolutely

Should we make an amendment to the Constitution allowing them to get married? No

The government has no right to put any kind of rules or regulations on who anyone can marry for any reason. There should be no laws against it, so why do we need an amendment providing a right that all US citizens already have? This is an issue that should have absolutely nothing to do with the federal government - period. Don't get me started on all the other social issues the government shouldn't have a role in......

x2. Crazy the power we just surrendered to the gov't

**Shol'va** · 08-02-2011, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by zimmy

x2. Crazy the power we just surrendered to the gov't

Yeah, the scariest phrase to hear at your doorstep is...Hi I'm From The Government And I'm Here To Help You...better run for the hills. lol

**amnkeefe** · 08-02-2011, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I know a few people, and have heard many more, that have either read or claimed to have read the english version of the Koran. Most say it is not as peaceful as some would want us to believe.

I think it's time I find out for myself. here soon, I think I will have to buy, and read a version.

I have not read the Koran myself, but have had discussions with Muslims about their holy book. A few of the similarities with the old testament is that in the Bible the old testament, God commands his followers to kill any one that is not of their faith. It also claims that if a woman is raped, she must marry her rapist and the rapist must pay the father 50 pieces of silver. Also the old testament states Christians should not eat pork, or even touch the skin. (Goodbye football). There are many more but both books are very violent in nature. Scary stuff.

**zimmy** · 08-02-2011, 01:34 PM

I've read it a couple of times before I became christian when I was athiest. The same people who claim that the koran is this oh so violent book haven't read the old testament 9/10 times.

**crazy_rocks** · 08-02-2011, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

^i'm not talking worldwide muslims, just the ones i know about here in afghanistan...

well its no different in iraq

**Shol'va** · 08-02-2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by crazy_rocks

well its no different in iraq

RU Serious Crazy Rocks? Do they really do the humpty hump on their boys in Iraq also? Man that's just over the top as I have always been under the impression it was a most grievous offense to do such dastardly deeds against another mans body in those regions in accordance with their beliefs and all. This makes me wonder if they are more like the other religions who only go to church on sundays and raise hell the other 6 days of the week. Goes to show us that their culture is not so extremely unlike ours when you peel back the curtains. Man we live in such a bubble over here and have no idea what is really going on elsewhere in the world, only concern to us is what time is Americas Got Talent on tonight, and what are the lottery numbers, that's about it.

**layeazy** · 08-02-2011, 03:28 PM

If we take the religious debate about it and look at the facts.

Modern science has proven that homosexuals and lesbians are in fact that attracted to the same sex.

Agree with not changing any amendments just allow them to get married and be happy...

**Shol'va** · 08-02-2011, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by layeazy

If we take the religious debate about it and look at the facts.

Modern science has proven that homosexuals and lesbians are in fact that attracted to the same sex.

Agree with not changing any amendments just allow them to get married and be happy...

I get tired of the same sex so I look for new sex.

**layeazy** · 08-02-2011, 03:53 PM

lol true

**crazy_rocks** · 08-02-2011, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

RU Serious Crazy Rocks? Do they really do the humpty hump on their boys in Iraq also? Man that's just over the top as I have always been under the impression it was a most grievous offense to do such dastardly deeds against another mans body in those regions in accordance with their beliefs and all. This makes me wonder if they are more like the other religions who only go to church on sundays and raise hell the other 6 days of the week. Goes to show us that their culture is not so extremely unlike ours when you peel back the curtains. Man we live in such a bubble over here and have no idea what is really going on elsewhere in the world, only concern to us is what time is Americas Got Talent on tonight, and what are the lottery numbers, that's about it.

dude its outrageous over there. ive been hit on by so many dudes while carrying a rifle. i was up in mosul in 03-04 while in the 101st. i was pulling guard on this small combat outpost, but not really an outpost because it was in the city..anyways. this iraqi guard at the time was in FPSF which stood for force protection security force. rent a cops basically. he was like "me, you, sex " and "me, you freaky freaky". they said what sounded like freaky freaky for sex. not sure if thats what they were actually saying. i had to tell him over and over that i wasnt gay. a month later he hit on my friend who looks like a little boy. we told all the dudes he worked with. he started freakin out "no no".

i was on this post north of baghdad one time talkin to these hawaiian national guard dudes who had the unlucky job of pulling gate guard as the purpose of their deployment...sigh, pogs. they told me they opened the door to the room the night shift iraqis slept in and "there was a whole lot of movement in there".

they have a saying over there something like women are for breeding men are for pleasure or loving or something like that.

i was on patrol in telkaif a small town outside mosul. a young iraqi guy asks if i wanted to come upstairs to his home. i said no. he said why not? i said why would i? he said something about butt sex. i said i wasnt gay. he asked why not like he was surprised. i said i like women. he said oh. oh? NO SHIT i like women if im not gay. then he took a pic of me and said something about liking american men. the whole time he was eating a bag of chips with his mouth open.

there are a lot of cool dudes over there though. good times.

oh i forgot. this dude rides a goofy bike up to he gate one time on our way out. it had a huge heart light on it, a weird flag on the back, blinking lights on the back, and it played some weird music with a tape player mounted on the handlebars. it was such a weird sight. no offense to anyone who is gay on here but this guy and his bike was a REALLY GAY sight like he was in a gay parade. i wish i had a camera.

**spywizard** · 08-02-2011, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

I think what Mr. Im-a-nut-job meant to say was that in Iran Homosexuals keep extremely underground for fear of death and that keeps them out of site therefore we have none here. Not to mention that they don't call them homosexuals over there so since they are not called that then none exist. He's a piss poor politician, but when it all boils down to it there are only two things that his people don't like about him...his face.

actually I heard the clip, what he ended it with when people kept arguing that there were gays there he said

"Really??? what are their addresses, where do they live"

but hey, thats not a society i have to live in..

**crazy_rocks** · 08-02-2011, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by spywizard

actually I heard the clip, what he ended it with when people kept arguing that there were gays there he said

"Really??? what are their addresses, where do they live"

but hey, thats not a society i have to live in..

and if he is right its because they were all executed

**Shol'va** · 08-02-2011, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by crazy_rocks

dude its outrageous over there. ive been hit on by so many dudes while carrying a rifle. i was up in mosul in 03-04 while in the 101st. i was pulling guard on this small combat outpost, but not really an outpost because it was in the city..anyways. this iraqi guard at the time was in FPSF which stood for force protection security force. rent a cops basically. he was like "me, you, sex " and "me, you freaky freaky". they said what sounded like freaky freaky for sex. not sure if thats what they were actually saying. i had to tell him over and over that i wasnt gay. a month later he hit on my friend who looks like a little boy. we told all the dudes he worked with. he started freakin out "no no".

i was on this post north of baghdad one time talkin to these hawaiian national guard dudes who had the unlucky job of pulling gate guard as the purpose of their deployment...sigh, pogs. they told me they opened the door to the room the night shift iraqis slept in and "there was a whole lot of movement in there".

they have a saying over there something like women are for breeding men are for pleasure or loving or something like that.

i was on patrol in telkaif a small town outside mosul. a young iraqi guy asks if i wanted to come upstairs to his home. i said no. he said why not? i said why would i? he said something about butt sex. i said i wasnt gay. he asked why not like he was surprised. i said i like women. he said oh. oh? NO SHIT i like women if im not gay. then he took a pic of me and said something about liking american men. the whole time he was eating a bag of chips with his mouth open.

there are a lot of cool dudes over there though. good times.

oh i forgot. this dude rides a goofy bike up to he gate one time on our way out. it had a huge heart light on it, a weird flag on the back, blinking lights on the back, and it played some weird music with a tape player mounted on the handlebars. it was such a weird sight. no offense to anyone who is gay on here but this guy and his bike was a REALLY GAY sight like he was in a gay parade. i wish i had a camera.

I wish you had a camera too. I'd love to see the pics of their gay people over there in their environment. I can imagine that bike was a hoot.

**Times Roman** · 08-02-2011, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by spywizard

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1111114493161

Asked about Iran Executing Gays, "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country," Mr Ahmadinejad said

now i don't get it who's correct??

when was the last time you felt politicians from Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan, etc.... spoke the truth about anything?

**Shol'va** · 08-02-2011, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

when was the last time you felt politicians from Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan, etc.... spoke the truth about anything?

Unfortunately you can add the US to that list.

**crazy_rocks** · 08-02-2011, 09:44 PM

heres the thing though. for him to say that is like him taking us all as gullible idiots. maybe hes so use to people in his country not resisting due to harsh punishment that he himself has become blind of the fact that were not all idiots.

it shows how disconnected from the people he is. why does that sound familiar? uh oh sounds like a domestic problem.

**wmaousley** · 08-03-2011, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

if that is true, and I imagine it is, then how do muslims explain the very high rate of homosexuality? last statistic is a majority of muslim men engage in homosexual activity. or is it just a form of hypocracy? not trying to slam you, but you do have to admit that if it is such a terrible sin, then why do the majority of muslim men (here) engage in it?
or is homosexuality a "minor" sin in the Muslim world?

This is for everyone's information. The Muslim world has its share of Drug Addicts, Alcoholics, Rapist, Theives, liars, Murderers, Homosexuals, Heterosexuals, transgendered, Hard Workers, educated people ect just like in your country. Why is Islam held at a higher standard or always brought up in discussions. Why cant we talk about Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism ect?

TR-Homosexuality is a major sin in Islam, and I cant answer your question regarding the Pashtun people of Afghanistan.

**wmaousley** · 08-03-2011, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

when was the last time you felt politicians from Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan, etc.... spoke the truth about anything?

When is the last time any politician from any country spoke the truth?

**Times Roman** · 08-03-2011, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by wmaousley

This is for everyone's information. The Muslim world has its share of Drug Addicts, Alcoholics, Rapist, Theives, liars, Murderers, Homosexuals, Heterosexuals, transgendered, Hard Workers, educated people ect just like in your country. Why is Islam held at a higher standard or always brought up in discussions. Why cant we talk about Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism ect?

TR-Homosexuality is a major sin in Islam, and I cant answer your question regarding the Pashtun people of Afghanistan.

Obviously this is true. clearly. But with many muslims here, they look at us expats like we are some type of contamination, and the root cause of many of their problems.

Muslims drink, obviously, because it is brought here with us expats???

So the thinking of some of the clerics here, is that if they get rid of the expats, then the drinking problem goes too. In other words, we get blamed for many of the ills of their society, when in fact, quite commonly, we have nothing to do with the root cause of the problem.

I'm not saying their problems are any worse than ours. what I am saying, is if i took such a ridiculous position as many here take, blaming problems on others, it would have been challanged many times over, and the BS flag would have been raised long ago.

**Times Roman** · 08-03-2011, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by wmaousley

When is the last time any politician from any country spoke the truth?

some countries are much more blatant about it. this president from Iran. his crap is so obviously a lie....

....claims the WW2 holocoust didn't happen??? what kind of crap is that???

**wmaousley** · 08-04-2011, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

Obviously this is true. clearly. But with many muslims here, they look at us expats like we are some type of contamination, and the root cause of many of their problems.

Muslims drink, obviously, because it is brought here with us expats???

So the thinking of some of the clerics here, is that if they get rid of the expats, then the drinking problem goes too. In other words, we get blamed for many of the ills of their society, when in fact, quite commonly, we have nothing to do with the root cause of the problem.

I'm not saying their problems are any worse than ours. what I am saying, is if i took such a ridiculous position as many here take, blaming problems on others, it would have been challanged many times over, and the BS flag would have been raised long ago.

If they think we (westerners) are the cause of all there problems, then they are sadly mistaken. All there problems come from there government. Its just easier for them to blame the US.

**wmaousley** · 08-04-2011, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

some countries are much more blatant about it. this president from Iran. his crap is so obviously a lie....

....claims the WW2 holocoust didn't happen??? what kind of crap is that???

lmfao, this guy is a nut case, he is a big ass cry baby. But if you look at all that goes on in Iran or know about the leadership structure, ahmadenejad is just a puppet for the Ayatollah Seyed Ali Hoseyni Khāmene’i the true leader of Iran.

**spywizard** · 08-04-2011, 01:23 AM

So getting back on subject, we'll assume he's against same sex marriage..

anyone else?? because i haven't heard anyone champion the virtues yet.

**Shol'va** · 08-04-2011, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by spywizard

So getting back on subject, we'll assume he's against same sex marriage..

anyone else?? because i haven't heard anyone champion the virtues yet.

What am I chopped liver? You ask the virtues so I'm guessing that you mean the virtues of gays being married as in same sex marriage? Well lets see now, hmmm, let me think about that one. You know one thing is, no wait, that ain't right, well then there is, no that wont work either. On second thought I can't think of any. I'll get back to you on that.......
Ok I'm back, well I had to do some meditation, and then it came to me, I'll google Virtue for further reference to the specifics of this question and so I did and this is the out come....
Virtue: Is a moral excellence, A virtue is a trait or quality subjectively deemed to be morally excellent and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being.
So I'm watching Jerry Springer, Maurey Povich, Dr. Phill, Oprah Winfrey on tv every day with married couples screwing around on each other and wanting divorces all the friggen time
So that got me to thinking what kind of marriage has that? You know Virtue? Definitely not the straight one. So why should gays be held to any more of a standard than straights? Eh such is life. But from my perspective personally I don't care about marriage license or the marriage itself, but I want those rights, protections and privileges that straight marriage incurs.

**songdog** · 08-04-2011, 07:19 AM

I will just say this.I aint anti gay.People are people wat ever they maybe.But God said Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.So before you go rantig on this statementLet us ask ourselfs why.Why do we as a socity pick apart the Bible to justify wat we want.Just so we may feel better about ourselfs.1st it was the lawyers picking our constution apart.Now its this.So all I got to say is if you want to do it bad enough just do it.No need to try to justify it.

**Times Roman** · 08-04-2011, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

You bring up a point. Before 9-11 I don't think Americans knew anything about Islam nor the Koran. Now we are bombarded by it and how that faith has produced all these suicide bombers, and has people wondering what kind of a religion preaches people to blow themselves and everyone else up like that, for 96 give or take, slightly wounded from flying suicide bombers, virgin girls. But again you have to read who is saying what about whom and for what ulterior motive. It is up to us to separate truth from the bull. If everyone would just step back and realize we are all in this together and quit trying to think that one faith or body type or ethnic persuasion, sexual orientation, etc, is superior than the other and accept each other as equals, we could settle all this petty Bullcrap. But history has shown us time and again that ain't gonna happen. So, let the raping , pillaging, and plundering continue, and the denials of same sex marriage and I'll watch it all go down on Fox News cause they claim to be All Fair And Balanced. lol

OK Shovel. I've been looking at your avi for a year now. I'm thinking that is you on the right?

**brad1986** · 08-04-2011, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

Why arent all the people who are claiming to be protecting the institute of marriage and all it meanings complaining about the marriage game shows and ect. I can goto a place on the LV strip and get married by an Elvis impersonator to some girl i meet 10 mins earlier drunk out of my mind. Or the game shows the bachelor , i want to marry a millionaire and ect. Yet no protest about them yet we need to protect the institution of marriage.

excellent point. I want to see sombody try to argue this one