Tuff Love

**Lunk1** · 11-01-2012, 10:58 AM

Does this form of dicipline work on young kids and teens? Explain....

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 11:04 AM

If it tells you anything I am a result of tuff love.

**JohnnyVegas** · 11-01-2012, 11:06 AM

I am no expert, but I have done some reading over the years and it seems to be something I would use as a last resort on a problem child. It doesn't really help a kid grow or learn. It just tries to discourage behavior by applying negative reinforcement.

Interested to see what others say.

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 11:22 AM

Knowing I was getting an apple tree what we call a switch from my mom and a leather belt from my dad when a letter would come home from school kept very few letters from coming home. Having to work for things I wanted taught me value of hard work. Having to take responsibility for my mistakes and make it right with whom ever taught me respect.

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 11:24 AM

Coddling children gives a false sense of entitlement. That's a problem in my opinion.

**JohnnyVegas** · 11-01-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Knowing I was getting an apple tree what we call a switch from my mom and a leather belt from my dad when a letter would come home from school kept very few letters from coming home. Having to work for things I wanted taught me value of hard work. Having to take responsibility for my mistakes and make it right with whom ever taught me respect.

Totally agree with the second two things you said and I learned those lessons too...but I learned them without the threat of violence.

**Hunter** · 11-01-2012, 11:28 AM

Define tough love?

Do you mean beating your kids and verbally assualting them? Then no

Do you mean your kids have to work for what they have, giving them praise when it is deserved, or a spanking? Then yes. My parents praised me when i did some exceptional etc. They never showered me with praise if I didn't deserve it. They helped me out with things I needed like half and half for a new bow etc. However because I had to work for what I wanted I appreciated it more and understood the value of hard work.

**JohnnyVegas** · 11-01-2012, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Coddling children gives a false sense of entitlement. That's a problem in my opinion.

Agreed. We must be able to find that level that gives kids freedom to discover things but doesn't follow the "every child is equally special" model that seems to be popular right now.

**Bigshotvictoria** · 11-01-2012, 11:34 AM

When I did something wrong, I was punished. I was also made to understand why I was being punished. If I was good, made accomplishments and so on I was rewarded, and made to understand that I had earned my reward. I learned that every decision I made had consequences, either good or bad. I also learned that all of my possessions given by my parents (bike, video games, etc...) were a privilege not a right. I also placed value in them, as I had to earn the right to have them. This is how I define tough love, and in that respect I think it's the only way to parent.

With all that said, I'm not yet a dad. Ask again in a couple of years and we'll see if I still feel the same way.

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bigshotvictoria

When I did something wrong, I was punished. I was also made to understand why I was being punished. If I was good, made accomplishments and so on I was rewarded, and made to understand that I had earned my reward. I learned that every decision I made had consequences, either good or bad. I also learned that all of my possessions given by my parents (bike, video games, etc...) were a privilege not a right. I also placed value in them, as I had to earn the right to have them. This is how I define tough love, and in that respect I think it's the only way to parent.

With all that said, I'm not yet a dad. Ask again in a couple of years and we'll see if I still feel the same way.

Well said. As for being a dad. The trouble is when you and mom don't see eye to eye on discipline.

**lestat85** · 11-01-2012, 11:46 AM

Tuff love isn't about violence. It's about strict discipline and making your kids earn rewards. IMO, rewarding a child, regardless of there behaviour teaches them that they should get everything handed to them. There's too many people already with that attitude. My kids have to earn their rewards and lose out on things when the behave badly. No exceptions

As far as what for of discipline is used, that's up to the parent, within reason and is no one else's business.

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

Agreed. We must be able to find that level that gives kids freedom to discover things but doesn't follow the "every child is equally special" model that seems to be popular right now.

You mean a a sporting event where everyone gets a trophy so everyone is the same?
Why work hard if I will get it any way. Bad path we are on.

**Bigshotvictoria** · 11-01-2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Well said. As for being a dad. The trouble is when you and mom don't see eye to eye on discipline.

Thank you cape. Although I should say that despite having fantastic parents, and an amazing home life, I still made bad decisions. Alcohol and drug use, arguably pushing into addiction; leading into other things that I prefer to leave in the past. But perhaps it was the lessons they worked so hard at teaching me that made me able to stop and turn my life around. I couldn't be more proud of the person I've become, and I think my parents deserve the credit for that. Perhaps that's why I'm such an advocate for their method of parenting.

**JohnnyVegas** · 11-01-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

You mean a a sporting event where everyone gets a trophy so everyone is the same?
Why work hard if I will get it any way. Bad path we are on.

Dude, you just don't get it. We are all special. We are all winners.

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bigshotvictoria

Thank you cape. Although I should say that despite having fantastic parents, and an amazing home life, I still made bad decisions. Alcohol and drug use, arguably pushing into addiction; leading into other things that I prefer to leave in the past. But perhaps it was the lessons they worked so hard at teaching me that made me able to stop and turn my life around. I couldn't be more proud of the person I've become, and I think my parents deserve the credit for that. Perhaps that's why I'm such an advocate for their method of parenting.

Sounds like a carbon copy of my life. I understand completely. Although some how was able to keep the drug use from being known by them. But I've been clean over 7 yrs. knowing the disappointment they would have had was a big thing. But that was my respect for them that they taught/instilled in me.

**Bigshotvictoria** · 11-01-2012, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Sounds like a carbon copy of my life. I understand completely. Although some how was able to keep the drug use from being known by them. But I've been clean over 7 yrs. knowing the disappointment they would have had was a big thing. But that was my respect for them that they taught/instilled in me.

I grew up in a smaller town, with an attorney as a dad. Since he new all the Mounties, there wasn't a lot he didn't know. Congrats on kicking the habits, I'm at 8 years myself. Smoking was the last to go, that's just about 5 years.

Sorry Lunk, I've started to hijack your thread. I was just trying to say that you can do everything right, and us kids will still screw up through no fault of yours!!!

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 12:12 PM

Stopped smoking 5 yrs ago. Tuff love is needed or we will be a country of worthless useless people with our hand s out.

**Lunk1** · 11-01-2012, 12:14 PM

By tuff love I don't mean abuse or assault. I mean for example in the case of a child turned drug addict. I have seen parents use tuff love tactics like turning their back on the child and basicly saying I love you BUT....if this is your path you walk it alone!

Tuff love discipline really has nothing to do with spanking, whipping and such. God knows I still feel some of those smacks with a leather belt even if only in my head!

**Hunter** · 11-01-2012, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

By tuff love I don't mean abuse or assault. I mean for example in the case of a child turned drug addict. I have seen parents use tuff love tactics like turning their back on the child and basicly saying I love you BUT....if this is your path you walk it alone!

Tuff love discipline really has nothing to do with spanking, whipping and such. God knows I still feel some of those smacks with a leather belt even if only in my head!

I dont consider a spanking assualt( not saying you do). The media has completly over blown spankings imo. My dad only used a belt on me once and thats cause I hit my brother in the face with a stick lol.

**lestat85** · 11-01-2012, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

By tuff love I don't mean abuse or assault. I mean for example in the case of a child turned drug addict. I have seen parents use tuff love tactics like turning their back on the child and basicly saying I love you BUT....if this is your path you walk it alone!

Tuff love discipline really has nothing to do with spanking, whipping and such. God knows I still feel some of those smacks with a leather belt even if only in my head!

In a situation like this, I think it's really the only thing you can do, if they refuse to take the help their offered.

This is basically the situation my parents faced with my older sister. It been about 10 years since I've seen or heard from her. As much I would have loved to have her as a part of my life and to meet my kids, she refused to accept help and, as long as my parents kept bailing her out of trouble, she had no reason to change.

**baseline_9** · 11-01-2012, 12:28 PM

Good thread idea

I'm not a parent so have no experience... I only have an opinion based on what I believe...

I think that beating or punishing a child will only make them grow up to do the same as they would see it as acceptable behaviour.... I think that protecting a child from the 'real world' is only going to have negative effects in the end....

If children are over 'mothered' or protected too much against real world threats it simply weakens them and does not allow them to develop propperly....

When I have a child I would like to think that I was firm but fair.... If you do as your told then you get rewarded... Not every time but in generall... If your bad then you get punished.... Punishment being withdrawal of rewards....

I would quite happily see my child make mistakes and learn on there own how to overcome them.... I'd happily see my child fall of his bike if it taught them how to ride a bike alone.... I think that's a good example of tough love....

**MR-FQ320** · 11-01-2012, 12:33 PM

Good thread, especially as I have a 10 month old daughter. Having your own children really does change your perspective view point.

**lestat85** · 11-01-2012, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

Good thread, especially as I have a 10 month old daughter. Having your own children really does change your perspective view point.

It changes everything you ever thought before in an instant lol. I have 3 boys, my oldest is turning 6 in a month and the youngest is 1. The way I think now is completely different than before I had kids.

**Lunk1** · 11-01-2012, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hunter

I dont consider a spanking assualt( not saying you do). The media has completly over blown spankings imo. My dad only used a belt on me once and thats cause I hit my brother in the face with a stick lol.

No I don't either Hunter. Spanking is ok in my book to a degree. Again I think ppl have a different definition of tuff love then what my understanding of it is. My definition is more the you have to live with your actions and we are not going to help you or enable you so you are on your own type of discipline

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Hunter

I dont consider a spanking assualt( not saying you do). The media has completly over blown spankings imo. My dad only used a belt on me once and thats cause I hit my brother in the face with a stick lol.

Agreed. When ypou have taken everything away sometimes the only thing left is a spanking. Like I said earlier no more than 3 letters were ever sent home. The threat of a spanking is worse than the spanking most times.

I read in a great book more than one time "Spare the rod and spoil the child". Was a line I remember to this day.

I'm not saying beat the hell out of your kid.

**Lunk1** · 11-01-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Agreed. When ypou have taken everything away sometimes the only thing left is a spanking. Like I said earlier no more than 3 letters were ever sent home. The threat of a spanking is worse than the spanking most times.

I read in a great book more than one time "Spare the rod and spoil the child". Was a line I remember to this day.

I'm not saying beat the hell out of your kid.

I have read that and it has alot of great quotes ;0)

**lestat85** · 11-01-2012, 12:59 PM

Sometimes a spank is needed. More often than not, the threat of a spank works wonders, as long as they know you'll follow through.

As far as making them deal with the consequences of their decisions goes, if you don't make them do it, they never will. There are far too many people that expect everything handed to them as it is. Everything has a consequence and children need to be taught that or they will never learn it.

**Lunk1** · 11-01-2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by lestat85

Sometimes a spank is needed. More often than not, the threat of a spank works wonders, as long as they know you'll follow through.

As far as making them deal with the consequences of their decisions goes, if you don't make them do it, they never will. There are far too many people that expect everything handed to them as it is. Everything has a consequence and children need to be taught that or they will never learn it.

How far would you go to teach that lesson? Would you kick a teenager out of the house that repeatedly refused to abide by your rules???

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 01:16 PM

^^yes

**lestat85** · 11-01-2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

How far would you go to teach that lesson? Would you kick a teenager out of the house that repeatedly refused to abide by your rules???

I don't know about kicking a teenager out, but other things like refusing to pay bail money as an example are not unreasonable. I think kicking them out before they are an adult could be a little extreme. If they're an adult living at home, then it's my rules or find their own place. But, my oldest is only 5, I hope I don't have to face that situation.

My dad told me once that if I ever got arrested he wouldn't bail me out. I knew he was serious and I never did anything to get arrested.

**RaginCajun** · 11-01-2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Knowing I was getting an apple tree what we call a switch from my mom and a leather belt from my dad when a letter would come home from school kept very few letters from coming home. Having to work for things I wanted taught me value of hard work. Having to take responsibility for my mistakes and make it right with whom ever taught me respect.

this!!!!!!!!!

**RaginCajun** · 11-01-2012, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

Good thread idea

I'm not a parent so have no experience... I only have an opinion based on what I believe...

I think that beating or punishing a child will only make them grow up to do the same as they would see it as acceptable behaviour.... I think that protecting a child from the 'real world' is only going to have negative effects in the end....

If children are over 'mothered' or protected too much against real world threats it simply weakens them and does not allow them to develop propperly....

When I have a child I would like to think that I was firm but fair.... If you do as your told then you get rewarded... Not every time but in generall... If your bad then you get punished.... Punishment being withdrawal of rewards....

I would quite happily see my child make mistakes and learn on there own how to overcome them.... I'd happily see my child fall of his bike if it taught them how to ride a bike alone.... I think that's a good example of tough love....

and this!

**Capebuffalo** · 11-01-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by lestat85

I don't know about kicking a teenager out, but other things like refusing to pay bail money as an example are not unreasonable. I think kicking them out before they are an adult could be a little extreme. If they're an adult living at home, then it's my rules or find their own place. But, my oldest is only 5, I hope I don't have to face that situation.

My dad told me once that if I ever got arrested he wouldn't bail me out. I knew he was serious and I never did anything to get arrested.

Fortunately that is what angry wives are for. And I do me angry

**songdog** · 11-01-2012, 04:34 PM

There is a difference between a beating and a spanking.I believe some not all kids need a swat on the butt from time to time.I have seen to many SPOILED brats who control their home.Simply beacuse if they dont get wat they want they make the home hell.I have left more than 1 home beacuse of this.All I can say is my father said it once.Now if he spoke twice I was set down for a while.A third time was a swat on the ass.I learned quick.

**MickeyKnox** · 11-01-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bigshotvictoria

When I did something wrong, I was punished. I was also made to understand why I was being punished. If I was good, made accomplishments and so on I was rewarded, and made to understand that I had earned my reward. I learned that every decision I made had consequences, either good or bad. I also learned that all of my possessions given by my parents (bike, video games, etc...) were a privilege not a right. I also placed value in them, as I had to earn the right to have them. This is how I define tough love, and in that respect I think it's the only way to parent.

With all that said, I'm not yet a dad. Ask again in a couple of years and we'll see if I still feel the same way.

I agree and practice this type of parenting.

I have never, and would never, raise my hand to my daughter. (i do not have sons but the same would apply)

Now, having said that, my dad used to beat me tied to a chair with a bag of oranges. My brother got beat, my mother got beat. My father was an alcoholic and a mean sob. He's dead now, he's where he belongs. He died in prison serving out a murder sentence. Thats tough love to me, and i never liked it.

All three of us, including my mom who has remarried a wonderful man, are doing well and have gf's, wives, and family. Thankfully none of use turned out like our father.

**baseline_9** · 11-01-2012, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by MickeyKnox

I agree and practice this type of parenting.

I have never, and would never, raise my hand to my daughter. (i do not have sons but the same would apply)

Now, having said that, my dad used to beat me tied to a chair with a bag of oranges. My brother got beat, my mother got beat. My father was an alcoholic and a mean sob. He's dead now, he's where he belongs. He died in prison serving out a murder sentence. Thats tough love to me, and i never liked it.

All three of us, including my mom who has remarried a wonderful man, are doing well and have gf's, wives, and family. Thankfully none of use turned out like our father.

Tough love....

Tough yes... Was there love tho? I don't think u will take this the wrong way (after reading your post) but he sounds like he wasnt a nice guy...

I think u need to nip bad behaviour at the bud and a sharp firm smack would probably work if you make sure it's firm enough that the child remembers it and then learns from it.... If u just do it over and over again it is worthless...

**ironbeck** · 11-01-2012, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Stopped smoking 5 yrs ago. Tuff love is needed or we will be a country of worthless useless people with our hand s out.

Too late

**MickeyKnox** · 11-01-2012, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

Tough love....

Tough yes... Was there love tho? I don't think u will take this the wrong way (after reading your post) but he sounds like he wasnt a nice guy...

I think u need to nip bad behaviour at the bud and a sharp firm smack would probably work if you make sure it's firm enough that the child remembers it and then learns from it.... If u just do it over and over again it is worthless...

No offense taken Base.

And i totally get what youre saying and understand. But i simply disagree. And im not suggesting one way is better than the other, just a difference of opinion based on past experiences and learned behavior patterns. I studied these type of behavior patterns in university and can tell you that the outcomes are not pretty, for the most part. However, not all children who have been "spanked" turn out to be social misfits and demonstrate aggressive, assaultive, behavior. Some are just fine and lead "normal" productive lives. But the percentages of these types lean towards dysfunctional families who were also aggressive and violent towards their children.

**kalspic** · 11-01-2012, 07:30 PM

when i misbehaved i got spanked

when i did good i got rewarded

as i grew up it went from spanking to not paying bill/gas and getting my car taken away

when i did good they helped pay for the essentials

what made me the man i so proudly am today is all the support and dicipline they gave me.

**frank13** · 11-01-2012, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

How far would you go to teach that lesson? Would you kick a teenager out of the house that repeatedly refused to abide by your rules???

yes don't abuse your kids its not a good idea they will grow to resent you i used to get hit as a kid and as an teen and it did nothing accepted cause more problems anyone that advocates hitting there kids wasn't hit as i was because they wouldn't want there kids going through that as far as kicking your kid out hell no all that will happen is they will go out and get in trouble and possibly do things they cant take back