Should we ban guns in the US like other countries have done?

**Euroholic** · 08-24-2015, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by davidtheman100

At the end of the day America is bigger than Australia and America is involved in much more foreign affairs it's hard to judge things solely off of "other countries are doing it" ...Yeah Sweden let's their kids go to college for free why can't America do that? Well let's start with the fact that Sweden is like the size of california...

True. What works in one society does not work in another. Australia has never had a big gun culture anyway so it was not that big of a deal when they placed those restrictions.

**tarmyg** · 08-24-2015, 11:05 PM

If people do not like the 2nd Amendment the constitution can always be amended to make it invalid as that is fully in line with the constitution itself.

**Shol'va** · 08-26-2015, 04:21 PM

Absolutely America Should ban guns all guns and fast! I own stock in American steak knives company and well people being people if they can't kill with guns they will look to nice quality steak knives to get the job done and I can make my fortune instead of the gun industry.....

Ok so seriously guns are not the problem in America. It's our society and how a lot of it has no value of life. and in my humble opinion it all goes back to one person where most of this started. No not Obama...lol But a now dead lady from Texas named Madeline Murray Ohare. This one woman atheist crusade of years gone by started the hell we now are in by taking prayer and the ten commandments out of schools and the rest of society. and even if you aren't of the religious type you still have to admit the bible is a great book to try and live our lives by as much as we can, especially those ten commandments. so as America continues to fall into a godless society this is what we are getting people without any value of life or respect of one another and so the rapes robberies and murders go through the roof. So now so many did not get the memo thou shall not kill! And we are left with nightmare on elm street,oak street and all the other streets of America.

**Euroholic** · 08-26-2015, 05:06 PM

Another shooting just happened in the usa. I read it on cbs news and fox news their stories are inconsistent. It would be nice if news just told the facts and let the viewer/reader interpret it.

**Brett N** · 08-26-2015, 05:16 PM

Euro, you're not even from the states and know very little about it. As soon as there is a thread about your country, feel free to post about it. You don't seem to understand what my dad taught me when I was little. If you don't know what your talking about, shut your mouth.

Duck season right over the horizon, working on blinds. Let the killing begin!!!!

**Euroholic** · 08-26-2015, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Brett N

Euro, you're not even from the states and know very little about it. As soon as there is a thread about your country, feel free to post about it. You don't seem to understand what my dad taught me when I was little. If you don't know what your talking about, shut your mouth.

Duck season right over the horizon, working on blinds. Let the killing begin!!!!

Mate Please show me what post in this thread you are referring to?

**Brett N** · 08-26-2015, 06:24 PM

Your "amendment" to the 2nd amendment. Plus, all you see is what is in the news. I have worked and spent a better part of the last 15 years in the St Louis area. But if you watch the news, it looks like everyone is shooting everyone. It's not like that at all. News is all just bullshit trying to get ratings.

Guns are a huge part of the states. Many of the people I work and hang out with subsidize their grocery bills by hunting, fishing and growing. They survive for the most part without commercialized unhealthy food.

Guns aren't just for sport or self defense. They can also provide a better quality of life for many families.

**Euroholic** · 08-26-2015, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Brett N

Your "amendment" to the 2nd amendment. Plus, all you see is what is in the news. I have worked and spent a better part of the last 15 years in the St Louis area. But if you watch the news, it looks like everyone is shooting everyone. It's not like that at all. News is all just bullshit trying to get ratings.

Guns are a huge part of the states. Many of the people I work and hang out with subsidize their grocery bills by hunting, fishing and growing. They survive for the most part without commercialized unhealthy food.

Guns aren't just for sport or self defense. They can also provide a better quality of life for many families.

Whats wrong with my questions? I had a question so i was asked it? Who better to ask then locals? No?

**Hazard** · 08-26-2015, 07:48 PM

Here's my view on banning guns.....

Fact: Criminals acquire guns illegally
Fact: Criminals will always be able to acquire guns illegally
Fact: Banning guns would disarm those who actually acquire them and use them legally

So what will happen is everyone who went thru a background check, everyone who submitted finger prints, everyone who purchased legally will now have to surrender their firearms.

The criminals will still be able to acquire guns but the law abiding citizens won't acquire them because of the legal ramifications. Now you have a society where the criminals have the upper hand.

It doesn't make any sense to me.....

**Hazard** · 08-26-2015, 07:52 PM

What they need to do is creat harsher sentences. If you are in possession of a firearm that was stolen or has the serial number shaved off you should get a minimum mandatory 15 year sentence.

Thy doit with fvcking pain killers now..... But not guns. Fvcking unreal

This won't stop the crazy kids who steal their parents guns or the disgruntled employee who legally owns a gun but there's NO FVCKING WAY you can stop them. You can't stop life from happening just like you can't stop someone from taking a life if they really want to.

**RaginCajun** · 08-26-2015, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Hazard

Here's my view on banning guns..... Fact: Criminals acquire guns illegally Fact: Criminals will always be able to acquire guns illegally Fact: Banning guns would disarm those who actually acquire them and use them legally So what will happen is everyone who went thru a background check, everyone who submitted finger prints, everyone who purchased legally will now have to surrender their firearms. The criminals will still be able to acquire guns but the law abiding citizens won't acquire them because of the legal ramifications. Now you have a society where the criminals have the upper hand. It doesn't make any sense to me.....

Exactly!

**ppwc1985** · 08-26-2015, 09:15 PM

I'm not for sure where I seen it, but they had a show or segment on a show where they outlined Australia and crime before and after their weapons ban. Crime raised quite a bit in most categories. They will never ban all guns in the United States because there is no way it is possible, if you believe it than your just a nut. There would be so much more death because ppl just won't give up their weapons. No way no how.

**austinite** · 08-26-2015, 10:25 PM

My pencil made me misspell words. Pencils misspell.

**william981125** · 08-27-2015, 02:03 AM

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Edit : Oops someone already mentioned this.

**Irish_muscle** · 08-27-2015, 02:37 AM

I was just amazed how all my hard core republican "friends" on Facebook that exploded when gay marriage was adopted, kept their mouths nicely shut when two journalists were killed on live tv.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

**Brett N** · 08-27-2015, 05:21 AM

Maybe not in this instance but journalists put themselves in a lot of places where they have no business being. They have not been trained to be in a combat situation.

If I was to go walking about on an oil rig that I have never been, there is a good chance that it would kill me. It's not Exxons fault , it would be my own stupid ass.

**Shol'va** · 08-27-2015, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Irish_muscle

I was just amazed how all my hard core republican "friends" on Facebook that exploded when gay marriage was adopted, kept their mouths nicely shut when two journalists were killed on live tv.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

You are discovering what a lot of us already know that both republicans and democrats are sell outs these days. I can't stand either party. democrats are out there in the twilight zone allowing everyone in their camp including illegals and commies and extremeist terrorists, and republicans they just sit there and let it all happen regardless of what the democrats pass and support without challenging anything anymore. Can you say sellout??? this is why Trump is gaining ground he is speaking what no one else will or has the balls to do. short of self destructing he will probably be a candidate all the way. Of course the republican party could sabotage him some way but we will see. Get this both dems and republicans passed a bill a short time ago making it now impossible for a candidate to change parties if he doesn't make it in one party for election time. In other words if Donald Trump is somehow bounced off the republican ticket the time to switch to say a independent will have been to late due to the republican and democrats passing a bill to keep those things from happening for their own selfish selves so he would have to wait till the next election to try again in a different party....

**thisAngelBites** · 08-28-2015, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

When the U.S. Constitution was originally drafted it was not a bit hit with our forefathers because there were no rights given to the people that government was not allowed to break. Congress proposed that the Bill of Rights be added and and the bill was passed by every state and then added to the constitution. You see the reason the Bill of Rights is so important to U.S. citizens is because it restricts the power of government and gives the power to the people.

There was a lot of contention about whether there should have been a bill of rights as some of the federalists thought that an enumeration of rights would be take to be an exhaustive list of rights, when the intention was that all rights not expressly granted to the federal government would be retained by the people (and so it was agreed to add the ninth amendment which says that explicitly). I'd send the cite to the relevant parts of The Federalist Papers but I'm in Brussels at the moment and just on my phone and away from my books - but I can send them when I'm back if you like.

Note that the restrictions on government were always intended to apply to the federal government and the idea was that the states could regulate as they pleased. So even if the second amendment means that people have a right to keep guns for their own protection and hunting (which I'm not so sure about) it was intended that states could still restrict that if they wanted. Writing it out in the bill of rights opened the door to similarly enjoining the states later. Who knows what would have happened if the people against a bill of rights had been more convincing in their arguments?

**Shol'va** · 08-28-2015, 04:16 PM

Well Hillary Clinton has just announced that if elected president she will do what others will not and ban those guns once and for all. but in my community a lot of criminals are using suv's and cars and trucks to kill with by mowing people down and running over them, therefore following Hillary's example she will have to ban all motorized vehicles in America as well as guns. and in some communities knives are used as weapons and in other's still baseball bats are used so no more baseball bats or knives of any kind will be allowed under Hillary Clinton's presidency. Wow what's left for Americans? Oh and we can't forget the internet. yes words are used to kill on the internet. People are telling others on the internet to go kill themselves. So no more word's can be used in America either under Hillary. Does everyone see how stupid this gets? when it's none of these items faults at all but rather people who use them for their own evil deeds. It's a mental health issue mainly. Someone opened the nuthouse gates and let them all loose on America. Of course most of those nuts ended up running our country......

**kinetixtrainer** · 08-28-2015, 05:23 PM

I always carry one of my guns. With the direction our society (and world) seem to be headed I think it's crazy not to carry.

I'm well trained in CQB and the deploying of and engaging with my weapons. I never want to have to ask myself when it mattered most, why I wasn't carrying my tools that would allow me to stop a threat to my family or save a fellow citizen.

**songdog** · 08-28-2015, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Wow.... Well what criminal would think of turning their guns in? None! Why crime period is up now(in Austrailia)... It further proves that the law abiding citizens(w/gun rights) are just getting the sh!tty end of the stick...

We as a country should definitely take note of this and prove it would be the same regarding crime going up - we already have - how many - killings assaults rapes robberies etc as of now - not to mention the young shooting back at cops/people etc on a daily basis! Imho it would make things worst - just like stated above...

Furthermore we need to be able to protect our families friends - and land! Also hunting is a very big deal here!

Edit- funny thing is RC I was writing this while you were - look at my last paragraph or line....

Yeah your crime is up but they wont say why!

**bartman314** · 08-29-2015, 03:43 PM

maybe i'm the black sheep here. i do think we need some reform in our gun laws. i think it's to easy to get them and i think there are some things we can do in our society to decrease the ease of gun misuse (i also think of all the tragedies with kids in homes with guns that shoot themselves or others and how avoidable these things are).

that being said, i believe in the general principal of the second amendment and that responsible, law-abiding can and should be allowed to own and carry guns.

the trick in my view is finding some balance between these two positions and having the political will to do something effective. frankly i'm pessimistic such will ever occur here. if sandyhook couldn't lead to something, nothing will.

**lovbyts** · 08-30-2015, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by bartman314

maybe i'm the black sheep here. i do think we need some reform in our gun laws. i think it's to easy to get them and i think there are some things we can do in our society to decrease the ease of gun misuse (i also think of all the tragedies with kids in homes with guns that shoot themselves or others and how avoidable these things are).

that being said, i believe in the general principal of the second amendment and that responsible, law-abiding can and should be allowed to own and carry guns.

the trick in my view is finding some balance between these two positions and having the political will to do something effective. frankly i'm pessimistic such will ever occur here. if sandyhook couldn't lead to something, nothing will.

The problem is every time someone tries to "reform" the gun law they lie about their intentions and once the fine print is read it's 100x more restrictive than what they said it will be or they find a way to make it so. Thats why most of us have just gotten use to saying NO change.

I would not have a problem with anyone having to go through some type of training class before buying a handgun or riffle but it could not be set up make it so no one could pass or some other BS.

**spywizard** · 08-30-2015, 06:22 AM

If a person takes something that belongs to you, do you have a right to stop them, or say no to them?? Do you have a right to protect your life and home??

If no, take my gun..

**almostgone** · 08-30-2015, 06:28 AM

Agree and "Morning, Spy"!

**spywizard** · 08-30-2015, 07:42 AM

Thanks..

If a person walks into my home and takes the food from my hand do I not have a right to say no??

If the government comes in and says I must financially support another family who is unwilling to support themself do I not have a right to say no??

And what level or standard and more importantly WHO sets that standard of training and to what level do I have a right to protect myself..

Here is another way to say it.. If a woman is being raped, as long as it's only 3 guys and they don't beat her is she really harmed?? does she have a right to say no?? I mean after all them men aren't really hurting her are they??

Sharia Law addresses much of these things, however we live in more "enlightened" culture (according to us) according to others we are barbaric..

**numbere** · 08-30-2015, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by thisAngelBites

There was a lot of contention about whether there should have been a bill of rights as some of the federalists thought that an enumeration of rights would be take to be an exhaustive list of rights, when the intention was that all rights not expressly granted to the federal government would be retained by the people (and so it was agreed to add the ninth amendment which says that explicitly). I'd send the cite to the relevant parts of The Federalist Papers but I'm in Brussels at the moment and just on my phone and away from my books - but I can send them when I'm back if you like.

Note that the restrictions on government were always intended to apply to the federal government and the idea was that the states could regulate as they pleased. So even if the second amendment means that people have a right to keep guns for their own protection and hunting (which I'm not so sure about) it was intended that states could still restrict that if they wanted. Writing it out in the bill of rights opened the door to similarly enjoining the states later. Who knows what would have happened if the people against a bill of rights had been more convincing in their arguments?

I haven't herd someone bring up The Federalist Papers since high school constitutional hisrory. Thanks for the horrible flashback lol.

**Mr.BB** · 08-30-2015, 05:59 PM

Over here if I shot someone breaking into my house, I will go to prison, basically my life will be over as would probably have to pay compensation to the burglar or his family.

Hell, even cops cant shot criminals, theres plenty of them facing criminal charges for shotting them... Its a mess.

Not so much crime anyways, some petty theft, just a lot of white collar crime.

**thisAngelBites** · 08-31-2015, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

I haven't herd someone bring up The Federalist Papers since high school constitutional hisrory. Thanks for the horrible flashback lol.

Oops, sorry about that.

**MuscleScience** · 08-31-2015, 11:55 AM

I'm kinda a gun nut, so take it as you may. I feel that not everyone is capable of owning firearms. I was born and raised with them as part of my rural upbringing. They were simply a indispensable tool in our daily lives. We were taught a healthy respect for their power and danger. I am of the belief that everyone should have to take some training and classes much like driving and much like I had to do to get a hunting license.