Liberal or Conservative?

[50%Natural]

Hmmm why am i not surprised to see more republicans in a weiight lifting forum. There was a study done showing how as education rose the likelihood you voted for bush decreased dramatically. Interesting. Guess i'm an economic conservative, but more liberal socially and tend to vote more liberal.

Mr. fudge, you say, as education rises, the likelihood to vote for bush decreases? I would really like to see that study. It is funny you say that. One state I think of when you made that statement is California. It is hilarious you make that statement but yet, minorities vote democrat for the very reason that democrats buy votes. I'm not harping on minorities, but a lot of hispanic, oriental, and most african americans vote this way because they know no better and they know they get more if they vote that way. I am an economic conservative too but this point tends to push at each other. How, if you vote liberal, could you be economic conservative? That doesn't make sense to me. On one hand, you have the conservatives, whose budget is outlined towards defense and economic prosperity for its people. The liberal budget is more outlined to social needs and a welfare nation. If you look throughout history, you will see this. Clinton, ransaked the military, Bush increases. This is an example from recent time and there are others throughout history. If liberals give money back to its people and insist on a welfare nation to buy votes, then how would you vote that way and still support conservatives on the economy?

Also, you act like you can make a statement saying "wow, a workout forum, conservatives=uneducated people" and not get hit with that. What the hell are you doing here? You need to open your eyes, the people in these forums have a lot more going for them than lifting weights. Would it be better if we were out smoking dope, having illegite kids and voting liberal?

[BigLegs51]

Hard core Republican.....Liberals are lazy and full of self pity

[tryingtogetbig]

Mr. fudge, you say, as education rises, the likelihood to vote for bush decreases? I would really like to see that study. It is funny you say that. One state I think of when you made that statement is California. It is hilarious you make that statement but yet, minorities vote democrat for the very reason that democrats buy votes. I'm not harping on minorities, but a lot of hispanic, oriental, and most african americans vote this way because they know no better and they know they get more if they vote that way. I am an economic conservative too but this point tends to push at each other. How, if you vote liberal, could you be economic conservative? That doesn't make sense to me. On one hand, you have the conservatives, whose budget is outlined towards defense and economic prosperity for its people. The liberal budget is more outlined to social needs and a welfare nation. If you look throughout history, you will see this. Clinton, ransaked the military, Bush increases. This is an example from recent time and there are others throughout history. If liberals give money back to its people and insist on a welfare nation to buy votes, then how would you vote that way and still support conservatives on the economy?

Also, you act like you can make a statement saying "wow, a workout forum, conservatives=uneducated people" and not get hit with that. What the hell are you doing here? You need to open your eyes, the people in these forums have a lot more going for them than lifting weights. Would it be better if we were out smoking dope, having illegite kids and voting liberal?

I was going to reply to Mr. Fudge....but 50% said everything I was going to say (and said it well too I might add!).

peace,

ttgb

[fudgedelic]

Ugggh, well i guess again my point is being missed. Please read my most recent post, i don't see how this is so hard for you to comprehend. And the study didn't say anything about voting republican or democrat it was about voting for bush. If you understand the libertarian party which i am part of they are right wing economists and left wing socially. Why must it be so cut and dry. And since libertarian candidates don't have a chance at the presidency i would vote liberal because i'd rather have liberal economics than the police state created by the current administration.

[USfighterFC]

All i know is that Howard Dean is a psycho and scares the crap outta me.

[spywizard]

Cool...........

Im' not judging... just made an observation based on what i had read... If i was wrong...

thanks for setting the record straight on how you feel...

Peace

First off no teacher or professor has given me my views. And i could care less of their sexual preference, it bares no relevance to my life. I'm just saying they should be free to make whatever choice they want, and not have their life choices considered unconstitutional according to the "sanctity of marriage". I would be lying if i said i didn't think homosexuality was disgusting. But it's not my life so who am i to hold them back. Second when i say equality i don't mean cookie cutter houses everyone has the same thing. Not at all. I speak equality in terms of racism, and acceptance of everyone regardless if you agree with their lifestyle. I'm a capitalist to the core, you missed my point entirely. Just because i say i'm more liberal doesn't mean i think we should tax the hell out of the rich and have everyone else get their **** handed to them. If you read my earlier posts i said i was a economic conservative. You jumped to a conclusion that couldn't be further from the truth about me. And i never said anything about PC. Say you whatever u want i'm proud of our freedom of speech, regardless of how vulgar or "politically incorrect" it may considered. If you really wnat a handle on where i stand www.lp.org. That sums me up.

[spywizard]

I actually know a little of the libertarian party.... and agree with alot of thier stances on issues..

However..... society and politics... use the word and have come to associate the democratic party with being liberal.. which would be a bad thing.. which is different from being and supporting the libertarian party..??

Would that be an accurate statement??

thus i vote rebublican.. conservative... mostly because i love the tax breaks.. i put in my pocket and extra $12,300 this year alone... without lying on my taxes...

but don't worry.. there will be plenty of government cheese that can be bought with the $34,000 THAT I HAD TO PAY...........

Peace......

Ugggh, well i guess again my point is being missed. Please read my most recent post, i don't see how this is so hard for you to comprehend. And the study didn't say anything about voting republican or democrat it was about voting for bush. If you understand the libertarian party which i am part of they are right wing economists and left wing socially. Why must it be so cut and dry. And since libertarian candidates don't have a chance at the presidency i would vote liberal because i'd rather have liberal economics than the police state created by the current administration.

[50%Natural]

I don't care where you stand, I was merely replying to the fact that you associate people in a workout forum as being uneducated, but yet you're here; and also the study which you spoke of. I still want a link to that study. I won't believe it till I see it.

[Maroon]

Ugggh, well i guess again my point is being missed. Please read my most recent post, i don't see how this is so hard for you to comprehend. And the study didn't say anything about voting republican or democrat it was about voting for bush. If you understand the libertarian party which i am part of they are right wing economists and left wing socially. Why must it be so cut and dry. And since libertarian candidates don't have a chance at the presidency i would vote liberal because i'd rather have liberal economics than the police state created by the current administration.

I'm a libertarian and am a little disturbed by your comment. Libertarians assert that supply and demand or Adam Smith's so-called invisible hand theory needs to be the major determining factor in our economy rather than government intervention. In other words, the government should not be giving subsidies to companies or industries that would otherwise fail in the free market (like the National Endowments for the Arts). Also, libertarians are major proponents of privitization, particularly in areas of education, health care, and social security, and do not support government-supported "safety net" programs that could otherwise be better and more efficiently provided for by the private and nonprofit sectors. Yet, you keep saying that you would prefer liberal candidates who believe in full-blown government intervention and socialism to the free market system ("i'd rather have liberal economics"), which blatently conflicts with a major libertarian belief.

The U.S. government's constitutional duty, first and foremost, is to protect its citizens. The events of 9-11 show that we have terrible flaws in our security and need to correct these inadequacies (for example, airport security). The comments that the Bush administration is creating a police state is a little exaggerated. If a government cannot protect its citizens, then it needs to be dissolved.

Libertarians are more align with the Republicans. Ron Paul, a congressman from Texas, was the Libertarian candidate for president in 1988, but when he ran for Congress, he did so as a Republican and not as a Democrat. You are definitely entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine. However, the fact that you would actually prefer liberal economics (a major no-no for true libertarians) and only declared libertariamism midway through this discussion makes me wonder if you are really a true libertarian.

Maroon

[tryingtogetbig]

I'm a libertarian and am a little disturbed by your comment. Libertarians assert that supply and demand or Adam Smith's so-called invisible hand theory needs to be the major determining factor in our economy rather than government intervention. In other words, the government should not be giving subsidies to companies or industries that would otherwise fail in the free market (like the National Endowments for the Arts). Also, libertarians are major proponents of privitization, particularly in areas of education, health care, and social security, and do not support government-supported "safety net" programs that could otherwise be better and more efficiently provided for by the private and nonprofit sectors. Yet, you keep saying that you would prefer liberal candidates who believe in full-blown government intervention and socialism to the free market system ("i'd rather have liberal economics"), which blatently conflicts with a major libertarian belief.

The U.S. government's constitutional duty, first and foremost, is to protect its citizens. The events of 9-11 show that we have terrible flaws in our security and need to correct these inadequacies (for example, airport security). The comments that the Bush administration is creating a police state is a little exaggerated. If a government cannot protect its citizens, then it needs to be dissolved.

Libertarians are more align with the Republicans. Ron Paul, a congressman from Texas, was the Libertarian candidate for president in 1988, but when he ran for Congress, he did so as a Republican and not as a Democrat. You are definitely entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine. However, the fact that you would actually prefer liberal economics (a major no-no for true libertarians) and only declared libertariamism midway through this discussion makes me wonder if you are really a true libertarian.

Maroon

Pretty insightful post for an "uneducated workout junky."



peace,

ttgb

[spywizard]

Yep... im a libertarian... voting republican..

Who would have thunk it.............

I'm a libertarian and am a little disturbed by your comment. Libertarians assert that supply and demand or Adam Smith's so-called invisible hand theory needs to be the major determining factor in our economy rather than government intervention. In other words, the government should not be giving subsidies to companies or industries that would otherwise fail in the free market (like the National Endowments for the Arts). Also, libertarians are major proponents of privitization, particularly in areas of education, health care, and social security, and do not support government-supported "safety net" programs that could otherwise be better and more efficiently provided for by the private and nonprofit sectors. Yet, you keep saying that you would prefer liberal candidates who believe in full-blown government intervention and socialism to the free market system ("i'd rather have liberal economics"), which blatently conflicts with a major libertarian belief.

The U.S. government's constitutional duty, first and foremost, is to protect its citizens. The events of 9-11 show that we have terrible flaws in our security and need to correct these inadequacies (for example, airport security). The comments that the Bush administration is creating a police state is a little exaggerated. If a government cannot protect its citizens, then it needs to be dissolved.

Libertarians are more align with the Republicans. Ron Paul, a congressman from Texas, was the Libertarian candidate for president in 1988, but when he ran for Congress, he did so as a Republican and not as a Democrat. You are definitely entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine. However, the fact that you would actually prefer liberal economics (a major no-no for true libertarians) and only declared libertariamism midway through this discussion makes me wonder if you are really a true libertarian.

Maroon

[tryingtogetbig]

Yep... im a libertarian... voting republican..

Who would have thunk it.............

I won't hold it against ya!!!

[fudgedelic]

I'm a libertarian and am a little disturbed by your comment. Libertarians assert that supply and demand or Adam Smith's so-called invisible hand theory needs to be the major determining factor in our economy rather than government intervention. In other words, the government should not be giving subsidies to companies or industries that would otherwise fail in the free market (like the National Endowments for the Arts). Also, libertarians are major proponents of privitization, particularly in areas of education, health care, and social security, and do not support government-supported "safety net" programs that could otherwise be better and more efficiently provided for by the private and nonprofit sectors. Yet, you keep saying that you would prefer liberal candidates who believe in full-blown government intervention and socialism to the free market system ("i'd rather have liberal economics"), which blatently conflicts with a major libertarian belief.

The U.S. government's constitutional duty, first and foremost, is to protect its citizens. The events of 9-11 show that we have terrible flaws in our security and need to correct these inadequacies (for example, airport security). The comments that the Bush administration is creating a police state is a little exaggerated. If a government cannot protect its citizens, then it needs to be dissolved.

Libertarians are more align with the Republicans. Ron Paul, a congressman from Texas, was the Libertarian candidate for president in 1988, but when he ran for Congress, he did so as a Republican and not as a Democrat. You are definitely entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine. However, the fact that you would actually prefer liberal economics (a major no-no for true libertarians) and only declared libertariamism midway through this discussion makes me wonder if you are really a true libertarian.

Maroon

I agree with you and understand libertarians are considered more conservative and tend to vote republican in things such as the presidential election. All i am stating is that since at this point since it is basically democrat or republican presidentially i would vote democrat because i value my freedoms over some extra money in my pocket. I still struggle to see why everyone is missing this so much here. In a perfect world i'd get my all my libertarian beliefs realized but since that can't happen this is a world of compromise. And also i was more likely to vote republican before the Busha dministration but he has steared me away from that. The problem is it is impossible to declare myself to a single party and have all my views satisfied. Also witht hat study the key note is it is about Bush. I whole heartedly agree that the more educated and the more money you make the more of it you'd want to keep ( human greed ) and would tend to be a republican. I never said i support safety programs of the government but just because i would have to make a choice to support a presidential candidate that would support these issues would make it so? if you voted republican than you also had to give up on some major livertarian party beliefs that the republicans do not share so i fail to see the difference.

[fudgedelic]

And one thing i forgot to add is that the first post seems to be blurring the line between the study and the people of this forum. I was not meaning to suggest the people here are uneducated, just said a little too much without enoguh explanation, i just find it ironic that the people here whose lives are so based on the use of illegal compounds would be so heavily right wing biased. Granted no democratic candidate is going to be legally AS anytime soon to my knowledge but generally conservatives have very strong negative views on any "illegal substance"

[cjp85]

I agree with you and understand libertarians are considered more conservative and tend to vote republican in things such as the presidential election. All i am stating is that since at this point since it is basically democrat or republican presidentially i would vote democrat because i value my freedoms over some extra money in my pocket. I still struggle to see why everyone is missing this so much here. In a perfect world i'd get my all my libertarian beliefs realized but since that can't happen this is a world of compromise. And also i was more likely to vote republican before the Busha dministration but he has steared me away from that. The problem is it is impossible to declare myself to a single party and have all my views satisfied. Also witht hat study the key note is it is about Bush. I whole heartedly agree that the more educated and the more money you make the more of it you'd want to keep ( human greed ) and would tend to be a republican. I never said i support safety programs of the government but just because i would have to make a choice to support a presidential candidate that would support these issues would make it so? if you voted republican than you also had to give up on some major livertarian party beliefs that the republicans do not share so i fail to see the difference.

You would vote democrat because you value your freedom? How does that make sense?

[hoss827]

Bump for this

[Maroon]

I agree with you and understand libertarians are considered more conservative and tend to vote republican in things such as the presidential election. All i am stating is that since at this point since it is basically democrat or republican presidentially i would vote democrat because i value my freedoms over some extra money in my pocket. I still struggle to see why everyone is missing this so much here. In a perfect world i'd get my all my libertarian beliefs realized but since that can't happen this is a world of compromise. And also i was more likely to vote republican before the Busha dministration but he has steared me away from that. The problem is it is impossible to declare myself to a single party and have all my views satisfied. Also witht hat study the key note is it is about Bush. I whole heartedly agree that the more educated and the more money you make the more of it you'd want to keep ( human greed ) and would tend to be a republican. I never said i support safety programs of the government but just because i would have to make a choice to support a presidential candidate that would support these issues would make it so? if you voted republican than you also had to give up on some major livertarian party beliefs that the republicans do not share so i fail to see the difference.

Libertarians generally side with the Republicans because they see the GOP as the lesser of two evils. I generally support the GOP, but withdraw my support whenever they began preaching about banning abortions and pushing mandatory school prayer and government displays of religion.

I find it ironic that you would vote Democrat because you value freedom. Consider this. If you look at current political spectrum, the Democrats have become socialists. Think back to 1993 when Hillary Clinton tried to reform and overhaul our health care system. She and Bill wanted the U.S. to have a health care system similar to Canada's. She also said something to the effect - "We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." In other words, the Hillamonster wants us to have a system of government that has little regard for individual rights and private property. And think, if this woman suddenly announced her candidancy for president, she would become the Democratic frontrunner. So long for Kerry, Edwards, Clark, and Psyco Dean.

Don't think I'm just going to pick on the Democrats. I'm an equal opportunity political basher. The Republicans are abandoning their conservative roots and becoming more moderate (even liberal in some cases). The federal government has grown more in three years under Bush than it did during Clinton's two terms. Bush has not eliminated one government program nor has he recommended any spending cuts. Other than the War on Terrorism, rebuilding our military strength, and the tax cuts, his presidency has not been that much to brag about. However, I will most likely vote for Bush this fall, because I'd rather have him than any of those clowns running in the Democratic primary.

Maroon

[fudgedelic]

Libertarians generally side with the Republicans because they see the GOP as the lesser of two evils. I generally support the GOP, but withdraw my support whenever they began preaching about banning abortions and pushing mandatory school prayer and government displays of religion.

I find it ironic that you would vote Democrat because you value freedom. Consider this. If you look at current political spectrum, the Democrats have become socialists. Think back to 1993 when Hillary Clinton tried to reform and overhaul our health care system. She and Bill wanted the U.S. to have a health care system similar to Canada's. She also said something to the effect - "We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." In other words, the Hillamonster wants us to have a system of government that has little regard for individual rights and private property. And think, if this woman suddenly announced her candidancy for president, she would become the Democratic frontrunner. So long for Kerry, Edwards, Clark, and Psyco Dean.

Don't think I'm just going to pick on the Democrats. I'm an equal opportunity political basher. The Republicans are abandoning their conservative roots and becoming more moderate (even liberal in some cases). The federal government has grown more in three years under Bush than it did during Clinton's two terms. Bush has not eliminated one government program nor has he recommended any spending cuts. Other than the War on Terrorism, rebuilding our military strength, and the tax cuts, his presidency has not been that much to brag about. However, I will most likely vote for Bush this fall, because I'd rather have him than any of those clowns running in the Democratic primary.

Maroon

All of these are valid points, i don't see how we disagree here. I mean we each have our different values and choose our lesser of two evils. I never said i would vote for hilary. I just happen to dislike what Bush has done and am planning on voting democrat. We each have to make our choice since a libertarian candidate doesn't have a legitimate chance. Personally i am rooting for clark. I feel he is the most qualified, he is democratic yet military, and served as supreme commander in europe, he would be able to fix some things with our european allies. just my opinion, i don't see why two people on the same side pretty much should be arguing over this.

[fudgedelic]

You would vote democrat because you value your freedom? How does that make sense?

How doesn't it?

[50%Natural]

I agree with you fudge, clark would make a great democratic candidate

[Maroon]

All of these are valid points, i don't see how we disagree here. I mean we each have our different values and choose our lesser of two evils. I never said i would vote for hilary. I just happen to dislike what Bush has done and am planning on voting democrat. We each have to make our choice since a libertarian candidate doesn't have a legitimate chance. Personally i am rooting for clark. I feel he is the most qualified, he is democratic yet military, and served as supreme commander in europe, he would be able to fix some things with our european allies. just my opinion, i don't see why two people on the same side pretty much should be arguing over this.

There are several thing that you have to remember about Clark. First, he is not a true Democrat. He didn't declare membership in the Democratic party until several days before he announced his candidacy. Also, Clark tends to change his political directions more than a weather vane on a gusty day. I support the war...No I don't.......I support it.........No.......Yes.......No.

Clark is nothing more than a Clinton stooge and only role is to disrupt the primary and weaken either Kerry or Dean or win the nomination himself. The Clintons are still power brokers in the Democratic Party, and they want more than anything for Bush to win the general election so that Hillary can make her run in 2008.

Yes, Clark was the supreme commander in Europe, but he was also fired from that position by the Clinton administration. No one knows the reason for the firing, but rumors are that is was over "character and integrity" issues. The military brass does not think too highly of Clark. Should Clark get the Democratic nod, you can bet that the Clinton mafia will be leaking the "character and integrity" issues to the media. The whole agenda for the Clintons this year is to disrupt the Democratic primaries and possibly get their stooge nominated (and sabotage his run against Bush). They do not want a Democrat to defeat Bush. The Hildabeast wants to make her run in 2008. If Kerry, Dean, Clark, or whoever wins, she will have to wait until 2012.

Let's admit it. Her aging cream can only work for so long.

Maroon

[50%Natural]

that would be so terrible to have hillary as president, I hope to god we have a republican congress at the time, if she is elected, oh I cringe at the thought

[cjp85]

How doesn't it?

Have you sacrificed any of your freedoms since bush has been in office? And how the hell are the democrats going to give you more freedom?

[tryingtogetbig]

that would be so terrible to have hillary as president, I hope to god we have a republican congress at the time, if she is elected, oh I cringe at the thought

Amen to that bro....Amen....

[convalescence69]

I don't like any party, but I like Ron Paul. Ron Paul is a badass.

[convalescence69]

Have you sacrificed any of your freedoms since bush has been in office? And how the hell are the democrats going to give you more freedom?

Hey man, I made a thread on Ron Paul that answers your questions, check it out. You want freedom and privacy? Vote Ron Paul!!!

[audis4]

old thread

[QuieTSToRM33]

Why would you bump this old ass thread ??


damn newbs

[3bd]

I'm actually for the party that is going to start a revolution. I am so tired of the staus quo - it doesn't matter who wins, nothing will really change. If there ever was such a thing as taxation without representation it is now, in our present political regime. I'm so tired of Fox vs CNN and all the rhetorical bullshit that goes with it. I would love to pick up my guns with a bunch of other patriots and just run 'em all home or into the ground. I know that Atomini is with me, who else?

[Kingweb50]

Im a republican myself (prior military) but with this thread going on about communism the marx system in theory was a good idea but it was never implemented in the correct form and also it would never work because people want to be different from each other humans naturally want to be better then the next guy they dont want to be a cookie cutter example of there neighbor

[Kingweb50]

oh nevermind I didnt notice this is from 3 years ago disregard the post above

[goodcents]

Yeah I was about to say the original poster had been here a long time but then I read the date

[goodcents]

Why would you bump this old ass thread ??


damn newbs

Damn newbies





























Bump

[goodcents]

He probably did a search (or has no life and went through all the post from the start like I have before) like everyone bltches about then he gets yelled at for posting confussed

[king6]

FVCK!!! 2003!! This thread is older than some of the members here.

Vote for lock.

[goodcents]

FVCK!!! 2003!! This thread is older than some of the members here.

Vote for lock.

Damn right





















Bump

[billybambam]

I vote Republican. It's an Ex-Military thing, and if you ever serve then you will understand. I consider myself Conservative because of my views, and because of what I believe in I always seem to vote for the Rep. canidate.
I do not agree with all the Global Warming Hype, and all the Enviro. Lobbiest. I do not agree with Gay Marriage. The marriage between a man and woman was set forth by God and is a Christian belief. Most Gays will say that they are not Christians, nor want to be, or even be associated with them... So why do they want to get married??? (For Tax and Health benfits)
I say take your gay A$$ home and keep it in the closet. I don't want to see it, and I don't want my kids to either.
Oh and by the way. Everytime I see some protestor burning our Country Flag... It's like a spit in the face, and I am done with having to put up with it. So the last time I heard about a Gay right Rally down town, I went down there. ... Yep they were burning a flag,.. and I put the biggest plug of Red Man Chew in my mouth, and spit crap all in the face of about 5 people... and I let them know hwy I had done it. Not one of those silly faggets wanted to stand up to my Ex-Seal A$$.
Peace is for *****s..... I say,... "Let's Go To War"!

[billybambam]

Infact... I'm gonna change my Avvy now!

[Igifuno]

i registered as an independant. sometime i side with the elephant and other times the donkey. sometimes i don't give a shit.

[billybambam]

Wow,... I didn't even realize that this was soooooooo old.