**Elk and Moose bow hunting**

[hollowedzeus]

Ive been haggis hunting for over 19 years and still haven't seen one, fuking fast and very secretive

I think the sheep scare them away mate.

[marcus300]

I think the sheep scare them away mate.

We need to leave the sheep alone aswell.

Its getting hot in here going to have to take my latex off


What does elk meat taste like guys ?

[RaginCajun]

Hunting would be splendid if meat wasnt mass produced... but it is. So why add futher death and pain. Theyre in the wild. They are lucky let them live free. The imprisoned ones arent going anywhere... might as well.

I try not to eat mass produced meat and growing up in my culture, you were taught to live off the land.

What is your view on catching fish, crabs, crawfish, and shrimp?

[Mr.BB]

I've been watching some extreme Elk and Moose bow hunting on YouTube and I've got to say I find this so out of my comfort zone.

Do any of you across the pond go bow hunting and what is it what makes you do this?

I've spent a fair amount of time watching these bizarre videos and its completely a different world to me but I'm struggling to find the excitement these guys have about bow hunting. Its huge business and a massive past time I'm kinda of addicted to watching them though lol

Have 60lbs compound bow. Took it twice for boar hunting, 1st time it was a waiting spot (dont know how to call it in english), waited 3 hours in the cold, no chance of shooting. 2nd time it was with dogs, and we were waiting for the dogs to push the boar... really not ideal for compound bow having a boar rushing at 30mph, totally missed lol.

The bow is now hanging on the wall. Not enough game around here.

[Eduke93]

Im not really for hunting at all when the world is so saturated with imprisoned animals bred to be eaten but bow hunting seems to be an unnecessary inhuman way to kill just because its more fun than shooting.

If youre going to hunt take a rifle and shoot the poor fucker in the head to end it quickely.

Unfortunately, hunting is actually a much much more humane way to kill an animal.

Wont go into detail, but the way in which animals are bred and slaughtered for consumption is disgusting.

If anyone is interested watch the below 45 min documentary.. It will open your eyes, i think everyone has a right to know where their food comes from, you pay for it at the end of the day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvtVkNofcq8

[hollowedzeus]

I try not to eat mass produced meat and growing up in my culture, you were taught to live off the land.

What is your view on catching fish, crabs, crawfish, and shrimp?

We arent in a state of affairs where wild animals need to be hunted. They are hunted because people enjoy doing it.

Lool at the fishing boats bringing in tonnes upon tonnes of fish. All dead. Nothing we can do to stop it.
Call the death toll 100 million for talking sake.

Then people start foing to their local rivers and ponds or whatever. 1 more death.... 10 more.... 1000.... 100000 across the country.
More.

While you catch and kill more animals the extras are fucked in the bin because people arent buying it.
Not that it stops it being caught.

If mass animal production didnt happen id be hunting and getting my own food.

We arent bound by the rules of nature like animals and the excuse of our insticts doesnt quite cut it. A mans insticts might tell him to tear through a group of women and impregnate all of them... we dont live in the stone ages. Until mass production of animal product stops i will be against hunting.


I absolutely hate with a passion meat being wasted. I want to strike people that have no appreciation what there food is and scrape all their chicken and beef into the bin because theyre full.
If its going to die... use it.

Individual people have no bearing on world affairs. Vegans are doing nothing to prevent animals dying. People voting in elections sigularly do nothing to impact the result.

Oh and i dont vote either

[Eduke93]

We arent in a state of affairs where wild animals need to be hunted. They are hunted because people enjoy doing it.

Lool at the fishing boats bringing in tonnes upon tonnes of fish. All dead. Nothing we can do to stop it.
Call the death toll 100 million for talking sake.

Vegans are doing nothing to prevent animals dying.

Its in the trillions.

Also, i half agree with the veganism statement, but one person saves an average 198 animals per year. At the moment we have around 7.8m vegans world wide, I believe the stats grew over 1000% last year and growing at the same rate this year.

soon enough we will have lab grown meat anyway, so can scrap a majority of this shit.

[Obs]

I think you are a shinning example of someone from the stone age with that post

I may be from the stone age but I can fix anything from your computer to your vehicle down to the last bolt. I can float the web truly anonymously and I can make anything from metal. I have natural and extreme mechanical expertise and I can do all the things a modern guy can and a shit ton more the soft handed limp wristed can't.

Above all, I can survive anything. Crude? Yes. Unintelligent? No.
The world needs people like me on occasion when shit goes bad.

Shooting an animal and eating it aint that bad.



Believe me there is no more cruel of a way for animals to die than in nature. Do you thing the moose would rather starve to death and when it finally has no more strength be gnawed on by a bear for 30 minutes before it dies?

Lets see with Mr. wildebeest and Mr. Lion...

The most humane way an animal can die is at the hands of the most effective predator on earth.

Do you think these fuckers go to a retirement home until hospice takes over? Lol! Don't be so soft boys.

[hollowedzeus]

I may be from the stone age but I can fix anything from your computer to your vehicle down to the last bolt. I can float the web truly anonymously and I can make anything from metal. I have natural and extreme mechanical expertise and I can do all the things a modern guy can and a shit ton more the soft handed limp wristed can't.

Above all, I can survive anything. Crude? Yes. Unintelligent? No.
The world needs people like me on occasion when shit goes bad.

Shooting an animal and eating it aint that bad.



Believe me there is no more cruel of a way for animals to die than in nature. Do you thing the moose would rather starve to death and when it finally has no more strength be gnawed on by a bear for 30 minutes before it dies?

Lets see with Mr. wildebeest and Mr. Lion...

The most humane way an animal can die is at the hands of the most effective predator on earth.

Do you think these fuckers go to a retirement home until hospice takes over? Lol! Don't be so soft boys.

Obs mate. I love you youre an absolute national treasure but if you think humans need to conform to the mentality of a wild animal that cant concieve morals or ethics then youre a dafty.

Shooting and eating an animal isnt that bad. Compare that to the trillions of animals being murdered. Yeah not that bad. But it doesnt need to happen in conjunction with it.

We woupd need to hunt or die if we werent so civilised but we are so we have a choice.
Eat the trillions of animals that die. Or let the trillions of animals die anyway and kill other unfortunate animals that are running free.

Its sad either way but ones worse than the other.

I dont think ita soft to love and care for the wellbeing of animals in this world.

[Obs]

Obs mate. I love you youre an absolute national treasure but if you think humans need to conform to the mentality of a wild animal that cant concieve morals or ethics then youre a dafty.

Shooting and eating an animal isnt that bad. Compare that to the trillions of animals being murdered. Yeah not that bad. But it doesnt need to happen in conjunction with it.

We woupd need to hunt or die if we werent so civilised but we are so we have a choice.
Eat the trillions of animals that die. Or let the trillions of animals die anyway and kill other unfortunate animals that are running free.

Its sad either way but ones worse than the other.

I dont think ita soft to love and care for the wellbeing of animals in this world.

Oh hell I agree and I have mutual respect bit you need to meet a sportsman and understand just how effectively we kill. Aside from heritage and right of passage from one generation to the next it is necessary to continue the art. 99% of these animals die with respect and are used for food having died a much more human death than the rest of nature would allow.

I know guys that put deer blood in their coffee during deer season as a means of appreciation. They catch someone killing a deer and just taking the antlers and they will probably beat the individual half to death. Yes we are intelligent and dont need to be cold but we are still animals and must eat. Even a poor shot from an arrow is better than starving to death with broken mouth or being eaten alive.

[hollowedzeus]

Oh hell I agree and I have mutual respect bit you need to meet a sportsman and understand just how effectively we kill. Aside from heritage and right of passage from one generation to the next it is necessary to continue the art. 99% of these animals die with respect and are used for food having died a much more human death than the rest of nature would allow.

I know guys that put deer blood in their coffee during deer season as a means of appreciation. They catch someone killing a deer and just taking the antlers and they will probably beat the individual half to death. Yes we are intelligent and dont need to be cold but we are still animals and must eat. Even a poor shot from an arrow is better than starving to death with broken mouth or being eaten alive.

Perhaps we should blanket bomb the forests of the world and save the animals from a death by nature?

We have the choice not to kill. Animals dont.

With respect, the reason you mentioned that you give the animals a quicker death than the natural course of nature is because it really is the only argument you have other than you want to kill.

If you need to eat go to the shop and buy all the dead animal you want. Already nice and dead, ready to eat.

[charger69]

Obs mate. I love you youre an absolute national treasure but if you think humans need to conform to the mentality of a wild animal that cant concieve morals or ethics then youre a dafty.

Shooting and eating an animal isnt that bad. Compare that to the trillions of animals being murdered. Yeah not that bad. But it doesnt need to happen in conjunction with it.

We woupd need to hunt or die if we werent so civilised but we are so we have a choice.
Eat the trillions of animals that die. Or let the trillions of animals die anyway and kill other unfortunate animals that are running free.

Its sad either way but ones worse than the other.

I dont think ita soft to love and care for the wellbeing of animals in this world.

Ok you two. Give each other a kiss. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marcus300]

Obs mate. I love you youre an absolute national treasure but if you think humans need to conform to the mentality of a wild animal that cant concieve morals or ethics then youre a dafty.

Shooting and eating an animal isnt that bad. Compare that to the trillions of animals being murdered. Yeah not that bad. But it doesnt need to happen in conjunction with it.

We woupd need to hunt or die if we werent so civilised but we are so we have a choice.
Eat the trillions of animals that die. Or let the trillions of animals die anyway and kill other unfortunate animals that are running free.

Its sad either way but ones worse than the other.

I dont think ita soft to love and care for the wellbeing of animals in this world.

Perfectly said in a Scottish accent

Its just not needed especially with a bow for pleasure and thrill, that's the part I don't understand but its not something we do over here that's why its so strange.
We also dont think the zombies are going to take over the world and we will need to take to the hills to survive

[marcus300]

Ok you two. Give each other a kiss. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can I join in? i'll take my mask off

[hollowedzeus]

Can I join in? i'll take my mask off

Ive heard stories about your mug. Keep it on if you please sir

[Obs]

Perhaps we should blanket bomb the forests of the world and save the animals from a death by nature?

We have the choice not to kill. Animals dont.

With respect, the reason you mentioned that you give the animals a quicker death than the natural course of nature is because it really is the only argument you have other than you want to kill.

If you need to eat go to the shop and buy all the dead animal you want. Already nice and dead, ready to eat.

I do.
I dont have time to hunt anymore.
I see no difference. A lot of those animals you eat are processed so fast they arent the least bit dead only injured when their throat is slit and butchering starts. You can't understand it until you have lived it and seen the respect given to the animals taken by a sportsman.

[RaginCajun]

Perhaps we should blanket bomb the forests of the world and save the animals from a death by nature?

We have the choice not to kill. Animals dont.

With respect, the reason you mentioned that you give the animals a quicker death than the natural course of nature is because it really is the only argument you have other than you want to kill.

If you need to eat go to the shop and buy all the dead animal you want. Already nice and dead, ready to eat.

And you have no clue what they feed that animal. They can label it grass fed and yet how can one tell of it was actually grass fed or not?

Here is a video
https://youtu.be/eLbvy7e4BvE

When I worked in a restaurant back in college, they served fried catfish on fridays for lunch. The box was from overseas and the fish looked pink/orange instead of nice white filets. Not sure what kind of catfish has that color meat but I for one did not ever eat it.

[Obs]

And you have no clue what they feed that animal. They can label it grass fed and yet how can one tell of it was actually grass fed or not?

Here is a video
https://youtu.be/eLbvy7e4BvE

When I worked in a restaurant back in college, they served fried catfish on fridays for lunch. The box was from overseas and the fish looked pink/orange instead of nice white filets. Not sure what kind of catfish has that color meat but I for one did not ever eat it.

Every single place that says catfish around here is actually cheap ass swai. Really stupid

[hollowedzeus]

I do.
I dont have time to hunt anymore.
I see no difference. A lot of those animals you eat are processed so fast they arent the least bit dead only injured when their throat is slit and butchering starts. You can't understand it until you have lived it and seen the respect given to the animals taken by a sportsman.

The ones that are raised to be butchered dont have a hope. The wild ones do that you choose to take their life away from them.

Ive shot rabbits, ive caught trout, ive worked on a farm for 2 years with cattle.

Ive seen it mate.

The 'processed' animals will be processed regardless of what we do. Dont add to the death toll when theres so much processing going on.

You can be as humane as you like... hunting is wrong imo. But of course the threads point was that bow hunting was disgusting. Shooting is more humane but both are wrong.

Oh and with just a minor change of mindset, killing humans could be seen as sports like as long as it was done respectfully

[hollowedzeus]

And you have no clue what they feed that animal. They can label it grass fed and yet how can one tell of it was actually grass fed or not?

Here is a video
https://youtu.be/eLbvy7e4BvE

When I worked in a restaurant back in college, they served fried catfish on fridays for lunch. The box was from overseas and the fish looked pink/orange instead of nice white filets. Not sure what kind of catfish has that color meat but I for one did not ever eat it.

Ive experienced first hand cattle that are born, grown, fed and sent to be killed. On the particular farm i worked they were fed well. And were as happy as caged animals could be i suppose. Ive worked with milking herds and beef cattle btw oh and also sheep.

I buy the cheapest and nastiest food possible usually... frozen chicken, cheap as chips. I dont much worry about what it was fed. Its dead and i eat it.

I wish we didnt qnd that everyone was happy to embrace a plant based diet to stop the needless death of trillions of animals. But its not going to happen so theres no point not eating it and seeing it go to waste.

I feel guilt eating animal but its just bearable to live with. I was a vegetarian for 3 years before coming to the realisation.

If you didnt like the colour of that fish, buy it somewhere else. Theres plenty of animals murdered everyday. We are spoiled for choice

[Obs]

The ones that are raised to be butchered dont have a hope. The wild ones do that you choose to take their life away from them.

Ive shot rabbits, ive caught trout, ive worked on a farm for 2 years with cattle.

Ive seen it mate.

The 'processed' animals will be processed regardless of what we do. Dont add to the death toll when theres so much processing going on.

You can be as humane as you like... hunting is wrong imo. But of course the threads point was that bow hunting was disgusting. Shooting is more humane but both are wrong.

Oh and with just a minor change of mindset, killing humans could be seen as sports like as long as it was done respectfully

How about snapping necks?
Hell I have hit and fatally wounded four deer with the truck I drive. I stop and break their necks... Is that humane or should I let them suffer?

[hollowedzeus]

How about snapping necks?
Hell I have hit and fatally wounded four deer with the truck I drive. I stop and break their necks... Is that humane or should I let them suffer?

Thats not hunting. Ive had to shoot birds that my dog has caught when its landed in my garden.
You are absolutely doing the right thing.

Humane is stopping a dying animal suffering

Killing an free animal that is living its life is wrong

[Obs]

Thats not hunting. Ive had to shoot birds that my dog has caught when its landed in my garden.
You are absolutely doing the right thing.

Humane is stopping a dying animal suffering

Killing an free animal that is living its life is wrong

Sorry but I dont see it. In fact I have met cattle with more personality than most dogs.

[hollowedzeus]

Sorry but I dont see it. In fact I have met cattle with more personality than most dogs.

Youve never met my doggos.

Not sure what thats got to do with the topic at hand though

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[Beetlegeuse]

The idiocy of claiming that hunting is cruel is in the presumption that there's a retirement community somewhere where all the old and infirm animals can go so they to die in a comfy bed on clean sheets with a morphine drip. Wild animals and particularly "big game" animals die almost exclusively from predation, deprivation or exposure, all of which are drawn-out and gruesome ways to go. Even if they manage to stay healthy until a ripe old age, all deer (which includes elk and moose) eventually will starve to death because they are strictly herbivorous and their molars invariably will wear to the point where they no longer can chew enough vegetable matter to sustain life.

Point of fact, left to the forces of nature, all wild animals -- from the shrew to the elephant -- almost invariably die a cruel death. The lucky ones get run over by a car or a lawnmower or fly into a windmill blade that bashes their brains out instantaneously.

The primary reason we have sustainable wildlife in vast numbers in the US is because of revenues raised from hunting licenses and game fees, voluntarily paid by people wanting to engage in the sport, funds which goes directly to that state's wildlife management efforts. The amount of money the bunny-hugger community gives to effective wildlife management programs is minuscule in comparison. You couldn't run a decent petting zoo on the combined incomes of all the anti-hunting pro-wildlife organizations.

And the hunters themselves play an essential role in the health of the herd because government game management agencies are constantly adjusting game limits (buck/doe ratios and preferred age of the animals to be harvested) in response to local herd populations an sex balances, which causes hunters to harvest the particular animals that need to be culled to keep herd size manageable and its population as disease-free a possible. Keeping population in check is crucial because overpopulation leads to Chronic Wasting Disease. CWD is contagious and can wipe out entire herds of deer. And it's not yet confirmed but there are fears and anecdotal evidence that CWD might be zoonotic, meaning it could jump to the human species, not unlike mad cow disease. CWD also has been found in Norway and South Korea.

We also have private individuals who undertake game management for personal profit, growing suitable habitats and feed plots for deer and leasing the right to hunt on their land individual hunters. Which is one important reason we are having a wild game boom. We now have well more wild deer in America that at any time in history, more even than before the first European set foot in North America. Private game management is a burgeoning industry. They're creating what effectively are privately-owned and financed ultra-eco-friendly wilderness areas.

Game surveys in my particular state at the end of WWII found that we had fewer than 2000 whitetail deer. From the late 1940s through the early 1980s they imported deer from other states to the end of re-establishing a stable breeding population. We currently have around a million deer, so many that in several regions they have reached 'nuisance' numbers and the state wildlife agency has set increased game limits intended to reduce the size of the herd.

The annual deer harvest presently is approaching 175,000, about one animal for every 10 deer tags sold. Yes, that means about 1.75 million people each paid $70 to the state (hunting license + deer tag), >$120 million in total, for the privilege of hunting Bambi.

Deer hunting also fattens state private businesses by about $750 million a year in expenditures peripheral to hunting; food, lodging, gasoline, firearms, ammunition and hunting clothing and accessories. Not to mention the ~$50 million in sales taxes that the state pockets from those transactions. And that's just one small state.

But if they weren't using hunters for this job they'd have to be hiring tens of thousands of additional game agents (nation-wide) at public expense (= more taxes) to manage herd population and composition, the same role that private individuals now volunteer to pay literally billions of dollars to perform to the individual state's specifications.



Every state has its own game laws but in every one I am familiar with, there are special deer hunting seasons during which only 'primitive' weapons (black powder rifle or bow&arrow) are permitted. This usually is done for a couple of weeks before the opening of (conventional) gun season, which gives the hunters who want to use those particular weapons (which have a shorter effective range than modern firearms) a crack at the greater game population before they're made skittish and scarce by large numbers of gun hunters traipsing through the woods.

So in part it's the challenge of making effective use of the particular weapon, but it's also because black powder and bow&arrow hunters to get first crack at the best deer, at a time when they're more likely to get close enough to do the business with their short-range weapons.

And which do you find crueler, fating an animal to spend a month (or months) starving to death, or deliberately causing it to bleed out in somewhere between five seconds and five minutes?

And that's not to mention death by canid predation, which is the most common cause of death of infirm deer in areas where either wolves or coyotes are present in significant numbers. Both canids typically try to bite the deer by the asshole (because the male deer have dangerous weapons at the other end) and pull out its intestines. Which does not inflict an immediately fatal injury, and the deer commonly will live through 10 to 20 minutes or this mutilation before succumbing to hypovolemic shock.

Which makes an broadhead through the breadbasket sound like a blessing.

[hollowedzeus]

The idiocy of claiming that hunting is cruel is in the presumption that there's a retirement community somewhere where all the old and infirm animals to go so they to die in a comfy bed on clean sheets with a morphine drip. Wild animals and particularly "big game" animals die almost exclusively from predation, deprivation or exposure, all of which are drawn-out and gruesome ways to go. Even if they manage to stay healthy until a ripe old age, all deer (which includes elk and moose) eventually will starve to death because they are strictly herbivorous and their molars invariably will wear to the point where they no longer can chew enough vegetable matter to sustain life.

Point of fact, left to the forces of nature, all wild animals -- from the shrew to the elephant -- almost invariably die a cruel death. The lucky ones get run over by a car or a lawnmower or fly into a windmill blade that bashes their brains out instantaneously.

The primary reason we have sustainable wildlife in vast numbers in the US is because of revenues raised from hunting licenses and game fees, voluntarily paid by people wanting to engage in the sport, funds which goes directly to that state's wildlife management efforts. The amount of money the bunny-hugger community gives to effective wildlife management programs is minuscule in comparison. You couldn't run a decent petting zoo on the combined incomes of all the anti-hunting pro-wildlife organizations.

And the hunters themselves play an essential role in the health of the herd because government game management agencies are constantly adjusting game limits (buck/doe ratios and preferred age of the animals to be harvested) in response to local herd populations an sex balances, which causes hunters to harvest the particular animals that need to be culled to keep herd size manageable and its population as disease-free a possible. Keeping population in check is crucial because overpopulation leads to Chronic Wasting Disease. CWD is contagious and can wipe out entire herds of deer. And it's not yet confirmed but there are fears and anecdotal evidence that CWD might be zoonotic, meaning it could jump to the human species, not unlike mad cow disease. CWD also has been found in Norway and South Korea.

We also have private individuals who undertake game management for personal profit, growing suitable habitats and feed plots for deer and leasing the right to hunt on their land individual hunters. Which is one important reason we are having a wild game boom. We now have well more wild deer in America that at any time in history, more even than before the first European set foot in North America. Private game management is a burgeoning industry. They're creating what effectively are privately-owned and financed ultra-eco-friendly wilderness areas.

Game surveys in my particular state at the end of WWII found that we had fewer than 2000 whitetail deer. From the late 1940s through the early 1980s they imported deer from other states to the end of re-establishing a stable breeding population. We currently have around a million deer, so many that in several regions they have reached 'nuisance' numbers and the state wildlife agency has set increased game limits intended to reduce the size of the herd.

The annual deer harvest presently is approaching 175,000, about one animal for every 10 deer tags sold. Yes, that means about 1.75 million people each paid $70 to the state (hunting license + deer tag), >$120 million in total, for the privilege of hunting Bambi.

Deer hunting also fattens state private businesses by about $750 million a year in expenditures peripheral to hunting; food, lodging, gasoline, firearms, ammunition and hunting clothing and accessories. Not to mention the ~$50 million in sales taxes that the state pockets from those transactions. And that's just one small state.

But if they weren't using hunters for this job they'd have to be hiring tens of thousands of additional game agents (nation-wide) at public expense (= more taxes) to manage herd population and composition, the same role that private individuals now volunteer to pay literally billions of dollars to perform to the individual state's specifications.



Every state has its own game laws but in every one I am familiar with, there are special deer hunting seasons during which only 'primitive' weapons (black powder rifle or bow&arrow) are permitted. This usually is done for a couple of weeks before the opening of (conventional) gun season, which gives the hunters who want to use those particular weapons (which have a shorter effective range than modern firearms) a crack at the greater game population before they're made skittish and scarce by large numbers of gun hunters traipsing through the woods.

So in part it's the challenge of making effective use of the particular weapon, but it's also because black powder and bow&arrow hunters to get first crack at the best deer, at a time when they're more likely to get close enough to do the business with their short-range weapons.

And which do you find crueler, fating an animal to spend a month (or months) starving to death, or deliberately causing it to bleed out in somewhere between five seconds and five minutes?

And that's not to mention death by canid predation, which is the most common cause of death of infirm deer in areas where either wolves or coyotes are present in significant numbers. Both canids typically try to bite the deer by the asshole (because the male deer have dangerous weapons at the other end) and pull out its intestines. Which does not inflict an immediately fatal injury, and the deer commonly will live through 10 to 20 minutes or this mutilation before succumbing to hypovolemic shock.

Which makes an broadhead through the breadbasket sound like a blessing.

Just blanket bomb the forests. Theyre all going to die of starvation anyway. Spend a couple of million on some rockets and napalm strike nature.

Why dont we kill humans because lots of them wither away and die of cancer.

Why do we allow newborns to survive knowing that something bad very well could happen to them causing there death?

[Beetlegeuse]

Just blanket bomb the forests. Theyre all going to die of starvation anyway. Spend a couple of million on some rockets and napalm strike nature.

Why dont we kill humans because lots of them wither away and die of cancer.

Why do we allow newborns to survive knowing that something bad very well could happen to them causing there death?

Think much? My guess is not.

[Obs]

The idiocy of claiming that hunting is cruel is in the presumption that there's a retirement community somewhere where all the old and infirm animals can go so they to die in a comfy bed on clean sheets with a morphine drip. Wild animals and particularly "big game" animals die almost exclusively from predation, deprivation or exposure, all of which are drawn-out and gruesome ways to go. Even if they manage to stay healthy until a ripe old age, all deer (which includes elk and moose) eventually will starve to death because they are strictly herbivorous and their molars invariably will wear to the point where they no longer can chew enough vegetable matter to sustain life.

Point of fact, left to the forces of nature, all wild animals -- from the shrew to the elephant -- almost invariably die a cruel death. The lucky ones get run over by a car or a lawnmower or fly into a windmill blade that bashes their brains out instantaneously.

The primary reason we have sustainable wildlife in vast numbers in the US is because of revenues raised from hunting licenses and game fees, voluntarily paid by people wanting to engage in the sport, funds which goes directly to that state's wildlife management efforts. The amount of money the bunny-hugger community gives to effective wildlife management programs is minuscule in comparison. You couldn't run a decent petting zoo on the combined incomes of all the anti-hunting pro-wildlife organizations.

And the hunters themselves play an essential role in the health of the herd because government game management agencies are constantly adjusting game limits (buck/doe ratios and preferred age of the animals to be harvested) in response to local herd populations an sex balances, which causes hunters to harvest the particular animals that need to be culled to keep herd size manageable and its population as disease-free a possible. Keeping population in check is crucial because overpopulation leads to Chronic Wasting Disease. CWD is contagious and can wipe out entire herds of deer. And it's not yet confirmed but there are fears and anecdotal evidence that CWD might be zoonotic, meaning it could jump to the human species, not unlike mad cow disease. CWD also has been found in Norway and South Korea.

We also have private individuals who undertake game management for personal profit, growing suitable habitats and feed plots for deer and leasing the right to hunt on their land individual hunters. Which is one important reason we are having a wild game boom. We now have well more wild deer in America that at any time in history, more even than before the first European set foot in North America. Private game management is a burgeoning industry. They're creating what effectively are privately-owned and financed ultra-eco-friendly wilderness areas.

Game surveys in my particular state at the end of WWII found that we had fewer than 2000 whitetail deer. From the late 1940s through the early 1980s they imported deer from other states to the end of re-establishing a stable breeding population. We currently have around a million deer, so many that in several regions they have reached 'nuisance' numbers and the state wildlife agency has set increased game limits intended to reduce the size of the herd.

The annual deer harvest presently is approaching 175,000, about one animal for every 10 deer tags sold. Yes, that means about 1.75 million people each paid $70 to the state (hunting license + deer tag), >$120 million in total, for the privilege of hunting Bambi.

Deer hunting also fattens state private businesses by about $750 million a year in expenditures peripheral to hunting; food, lodging, gasoline, firearms, ammunition and hunting clothing and accessories. Not to mention the ~$50 million in sales taxes that the state pockets from those transactions. And that's just one small state.

But if they weren't using hunters for this job they'd have to be hiring tens of thousands of additional game agents (nation-wide) at public expense (= more taxes) to manage herd population and composition, the same role that private individuals now volunteer to pay literally billions of dollars to perform to the individual state's specifications.



Every state has its own game laws but in every one I am familiar with, there are special deer hunting seasons during which only 'primitive' weapons (black powder rifle or bow&arrow) are permitted. This usually is done for a couple of weeks before the opening of (conventional) gun season, which gives the hunters who want to use those particular weapons (which have a shorter effective range than modern firearms) a crack at the greater game population before they're made skittish and scarce by large numbers of gun hunters traipsing through the woods.

So in part it's the challenge of making effective use of the particular weapon, but it's also because black powder and bow&arrow hunters to get first crack at the best deer, at a time when they're more likely to get close enough to do the business with their short-range weapons.

And which do you find crueler, fating an animal to spend a month (or months) starving to death, or deliberately causing it to bleed out in somewhere between five seconds and five minutes?

And that's not to mention death by canid predation, which is the most common cause of death of infirm deer in areas where either wolves or coyotes are present in significant numbers. Both canids typically try to bite the deer by the asshole (because the male deer have dangerous weapons at the other end) and pull out its intestines. Which does not inflict an immediately fatal injury, and the deer commonly will live through 10 to 20 minutes or this mutilation before succumbing to hypovolemic shock.

Which makes an broadhead through the breadbasket sound like a blessing.

Damn you have a way with words. I have nothing left to say you said it all.

[hollowedzeus]

Think much? My guess is not.

My guess is that unless things are spun your way then they are incorrect?

Animals might die of starvation or predation? Kill it

Children might grow up and die od cancer.... school shooting.... etc. No no thats fine. Ill take the chance

[hollowedzeus]

Damn you have a way with words. I have nothing left to say you said it all.

Its absolute lunacy to state that its okay to kill wild animals because they might die in a less than pleasent way...

Oh there's a spider! It might die when someone stands on it. I better squash it before that happens

[Beetlegeuse]

My guess is that unless things are spun your way then they are incorrect?

Animals might die of starvation or predation? Kill it

Children might grow up and die od cancer.... school shooting.... etc. No no thats fine. Ill take the chance

Take away the Straw Man fallacies and the nonsequitirs and you have no argument left.

Now go find your dictionary (an a grown-up to read it to you) to figure out what all that means.

[Obs]

Its absolute lunacy to state that its okay to kill wild animals because they might die in a less than pleasent way...

Oh there's a spider! It might die when someone stands on it. I better squash it before that happens

Its food. You will consume or die. Your meal is coming from somewhere.
You are socializing the food chain...
Lol like it or not eventually you run out of someone elses money.
Eventually something will die for you to live. If you cant understand what Beetleguese said about conservation there is no way I can make a dent.

[hollowedzeus]

Beetlejuice... same logic as yourself. Feel free to edit your first post to avoid looking so silly.

Obs. Food isnt food. Theres food thats already dead. Then food that is food because you enjoy killing.

Once again hunting is not pest control.


A toddler in the uk understands this but grown men in the US cannot. It baffles me.

[Obs]

Attachment 172998

Recant Zeus! Change your view or the squirrel gets it!

[hollowedzeus]

Also beetlejuice your ad hominem fallicy is underappreciated. You might be older than me but deserve more respect than i do.

Ive not spoke about your age or character so id appreciate the same

You respect me and ill respect you thanks.

[Obs]

Also beetlejuice your ad hominem fallicy is underappreciated. You might be older than me but deserve more respect than i do.

Ive not spoke about your age or character so id appreciate the same

You respect me and ill respect you thanks.

He's right beetle... Your Eminem is all outta whack.

[hollowedzeus]

Attachment 172998

Recant Zeus! Change your view or the squirrel gets it!

Give tren a kiss goodnight for me obs xx

[Obs]

Give tren a kiss goodnight for me obs xx

I cant... I am an animal toturing heartless prick

[hollowedzeus]

Also mesnt to say 'doesnt deserve more respect than me'

But hey.... fml.

Nah not to that squirrel youre not

[marcus300]

Take away the Straw Man fallacies and the nonsequitirs and you have no argument left.

Now go find your dictionary (an a grown-up to read it to you) to figure out what all that means.

Nature taking its course and human intervention because of what the end result may be isn't a solid argument to hunt with a bow IMHO. I can see its something what a lot of Americans do, I've watch a lot of videos this week on it and I do find it very interesting and just wanted to go deeper with some of the bow hunters to why they may do it. If you try and take yourself out of your space and look at it with innocent eyes its clear to see both sides of the debate its just troubling when its done for the thrill and game of hunting. I cant seem to get past that one.