**Elk and Moose bow hunting**

[cousinmuscles]

I will make that my last post in the thread as i have repeated the same thing over and over to different arguments.

You may think im a muppet but no one has presented a semi convicing argument in my eyes despite the many attempts.

I will still be watching

I tried but you have to think saliently and adhere to logic and not emotion.

You can't make the statement "the animals suffer thus it is wrong that we do it" or any such claim. First you'd have to define suffering and the degrees of suffering. Then you have to accept that part of being alive is suffering and eventually dying (both at a 100% rate, the concept of life can't exist without death nor can suffering without enjoying et.c.).

If you then come to the conclusion that killing an animal for its meat is excessive suffering on the animals part then you have to adhere to the logical consequences of this statement and be salient. This then means you are now obliged to create an enclosed zoo for the whole animals life and start treating it like a child and so on. This is not sustainable nor is e.g. killing deer comparable to killing humans, the degree of consciousness is profoundly different between the two, same goes for deer vs ant.

Also in the thread you tried denying biology. Like the fact that humans aren't animals. Last time I heard this type of argument was from "gender studies theories" where a man could claim they were a woman and vice versa because they felt so, despite that if you took any cell from their body guess which chromosome would be there... I am a self typing keyboard then lol

[RaginCajun]

Im also assuming you skipped my previous posts in the thread where i explain my thoughts on eating meat.

I havent read any links anyone has posted since i believe what i think without question and reading alternate views just annoys me. There is no argument that will convince me. Any argument that will even come close to convincing me will always be pest control not hunting. Completely different imo.

Ive shot rabbits and theyve dropped. Ive shot birds and theyve dropped. Rats, mice.

My guns must be magic.


Once again however. We are not animals, we are not a part of nature. We have evolved past it.

Animals dont pay taxes or drive cars. We rule the world and as such have the power to make ethical desicions that unevolved animal brains cannot

I’m not trying to convince you of anything. Just trying to show you the other side of the street.

[MuscleScience]

People are predators, we evolved to hunt. It’s one of our most basic instincts. Some would say that we have evolved past the “need,” to hunt. I would say that’s somewhat true in the developed world. But for a large part of the world population. Hunting/fishing is an important supplement to their daily food needs.

I’m not much of a hunter although I do enjoy it. When I was a kid, my parents were not very well off financially so having 2-3 deer each year in the winter was a big financial savings to them. Of course I grew up in a rural area, having freezer meat was extremely common.

As far as for sport, It is a thrill. There is no rush like it. I’ve never experienced the pump and euphoria in the gym quite like I have when I tracked and took down a huge buck or pulled in a 300lb shark. If I hunt or fish, I harvest the animal and make good use of it. Fishing I practIcally always practice catch and release. A vast majority of hunters and fisherman are avid conservationist. Without the billions of dollars these people pump into the economy a lot of our natural resources would be lost.

[BG]

Geez I am probably making a mistake butting my nose into this, but I have to. When I have conflict with people in my life I take it somewhere private and work it out! Maybe PM's would be better than disrespecting and destroying the end of a pretty good thread. I definitely don't believe in much that Zues had to say in this thread, but he was respectful when presenting his opinion. Ok I am out of this thread ... Hope you got something from it Marcus. This board may need some better leadership tactics employed. I know it's got to be hard with the vast variety of members.

You were right your better off staying out of it, btw Ill clean it up when done. Thanks for your 2 cents.

[Mooseman33]

I wasn't gonna respond but I figure I better confess...

Cousin is correct. If you take words out of what I said and switch them with racist things, my statement does appear racist.

I just blew snot all over my phone! Lmfao!

He will continue to follow me around trying to instigate things in an attempt to get me banned because that is what he does. Irritating at best.

pretty much sums it up. exactly what happens. Shit should end, this place is not about that. It is so blatant let alone stupid to watch.
racist?
stupid ass shit he said, just trying to you.

[cousinmuscles]

pretty much sums it up. exactly what happens. Shit should end, this place is not about that. It is so blatant let alone stupid to watch.
racist?
stupid ass shit he said, just trying to you.

I am sorry it came across that way to you

[Mooseman33]

its cool buddy.

[diesel101]

I actually just got back from hunting trip so I am just now reading this thread.
As many of you know I am a avid hunter and fisherman.

I will kick in my .02 cents worth

First of all when I go hunting I do not consider it to be just killing, yes I am taking an animals life but I am harvesting that animal.
I harvest the meat and hides the meat is consumed by myself and my family and the hide or antlers are normally preserved.
Hunting is not just charging into the woods or prairie and shooting everything in sight. Depending on what you are hunting many hunts are extremely challenging and a lot of work.

For those people that go out and kill animals and leave them lay for the fun of it I feel they are the lowest forms of shit on the earth.

For those of you that don't agree with hunting or even eating meat I respect that 100% just as I expect you to respect my decision to hunt and eat meat.

For those of you that depend 100% on your local deli or grocery store for all of your food have you ever considered what would happen if society as we know it runs into a glitch and the trucks stop delivering food.

One question for all of you vegetarians on here when I mow my lawn does your mouth water like mine does when grilling a steak?

[charger69]

I actually just got back from hunting trip so I am just now reading this thread.
As many of you know I am a avid hunter and fisherman.

I will kick in my .02 cents worth

First of all when I go hunting I do not consider it to be just killing, yes I am taking an animals life but I am harvesting that animal.
I harvest the meat and hides the meat is consumed by myself and my family and the hide or antlers are normally preserved.
Hunting is not just charging into the woods or prairie and shooting everything in sight. Depending on what you are hunting many hunts are extremely challenging and a lot of work.

For those people that go out and kill animals and leave them lay for the fun of it I feel they are the lowest forms of shit on the earth.

For those of you that don't agree with hunting or even eating meat I respect that 100% just as I expect you to respect my decision to hunt and eat meat.

For those of you that depend 100% on your local deli or grocery store for all of your food have you ever considered what would happen if society as we know it runs into a glitch and the trucks stop delivering food.

One question for all of you vegetarians on here when I mow my lawn does your mouth water like mine does when grilling a steak?

Diesel- glad to see you woke up! I was waiting for you to respond.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Obs]

That last line had me rolling diesel

[BG]

That last line had me rolling diesel

X2 very funny and I will use it for sure.

[Capebuffalo]

[Beetlegeuse]

People are predators, we evolved to hunt. It’s one of our most basic instincts. Some would say that we have evolved past the “need,” to hunt. I would say that’s somewhat true in the developed world. But for a large part of the world population. Hunting/fishing is an important supplement to their daily food needs....

Every mammal with its eyes in the front of its head and with incisors flanked by canine teeth is a genetic predator.

The reason Homo Habilis diverged from and became smarter than all his ape cousins and eventually evolved into Homo Sapiens was that he became a meat eater. The reason we wear Reeboks and live in skyscrapers while all the other apes still live naked in the wilderness is because our ancestor was the one who came down from the trees, learned to walk erect and took up killing for a living.

[Mr.BB]

The reason Homo Habilis diverged from and became smarter than all his ape cousins and eventually evolved into Homo Sapiens was that he became a meat eater. The reason we wear Reeboks and live in skyscrapers while all the other apes still live naked in the wilderness is because our ancestor was the one who came down from the trees, learned to walk erect and took up killing for a living.

Nothing to do with the subject, but maybe a better discussion.

That's not entirely truth, it is an established fact in anthropology that it was not hunting that lead to civilization. Maybe hunting helped, but in reality is was agriculture with its regular supply and abundance of food that allowed mankind to prosper. Domestication of both plants and animals brought us here.

[Beetlegeuse]

Nothing to do with the subject, but maybe a better discussion.

That's not entirely truth, it is an established fact in anthropology that it was not hunting that lead to civilization. Maybe hunting helped, but in reality is was agriculture with its regular supply and abundance of food that allowed mankind to prosper. Domestication of both plants and animals brought us here.

Hunting let to enhanced intelligence led to civilization.

Apes are hindered from walking upright because their bellies must be large to contain all the roughage and vegetable matter they have to eat to meet their caloric requirements. If you can't walk upright you sometimes need your hands for propulsion so you can't commit them to other full-time uses. In fact, that's what Homo Habilis means. Handy Man.

Apes have strong jaws for crushing grains and nuts. The muscles that make jaws powerful need massive skeletal attachment points. The attachment points for the jaw muscles on an ape's skull structurally limit the size of its brain case, therefore the size of its brain.

Its diet forever limits it to walking bent and having a limited brain size.

Meat is a very concentrated form of energy. Becoming a carnivore allowed to meet our caloric needs with less bulk, which allowed our bellies to shrink, which made upright walking possible.

Walking upright made us a better hunter because we could see further. Easier to locate both potential prey and potential threats.

Not needing our hands for propulsion meant we could learn to make and use tools (including weapons) more proficiently. Made us a better hunter and a better protector of family. Constantly using our hands for delicate tasks made us more dexterous. Gave us not just an opposable thumb but an articulating opposable thumb. Most apes have opposable thumbs but none but man has one that also articulates.

Since our diet no longer depended on crushing grains and nuts, our jaws shrank, which allowed for an expanded brain case.

And what enabled the brain growth was a diet including protein in excess of our nutritional needs. And we couldn't have had that excess of protein without the hunting.

It was a positive reinforcement cycle. More meat means smaller belly, more upright walking, better manual dexterity and more intelligence. More intelligence, more upright posture and better dexterity means better hunter and more meat. Repeat.

You're right, the bedrock of civilization was agriculture. There has never been a great civilization that didn't have both cereal grains and domesticated animals. Early man had been largely migratory until he discovered how to domesticate grains. It was barley (and beer) that convinced them to settle in one place and grow crops for a living.

But if any old ape could have done that, they would have by now. But they can't because they lack the intellect. They can't figure out how to domesticate wild grain. How to make a plow. How to domesticate a draft animal to pull the plow. How to plow a furrow. How to plant seed. How to dig a ditch so they can irrigate arid soil. How to measure the seasons so they know when to plant. How to measure land so they can determine their seed needs. How to store the excess grain so it can tide them over in lean times. How to barter with their neighbors so they can convert their excess crops into goods and services beyond what is needed to merely survive.

No other ape could ever figure all that out because they subsist on nuts and grains. Only man could figure all that out, and even he might never have if he hadn't climbed down from the tree and taken up hunting for a living.

[Mr.BB]

Don't where you are getting this, but you more wrong than before.

We are not, and never were, carnivores. Meat was part of our diet, as was fruits and vegetables. That is an omnivore.

[Beetlegeuse]

It was the carnivorous segment of the omnivorous diet that led to the shrinking abdomen, the shrinking jawbone, and the accelerated brain development.