**Elk and Moose bow hunting**

[marcus300]

Attachment 172998

Recant Zeus! Change your view or the squirrel gets it!

Fuking hell Obs hahah hahah hahah

[marcus300]

Beetlejuice... same logic as yourself. Feel free to edit your first post to avoid looking so silly.

Obs. Food isnt food. Theres food thats already dead. Then food that is food because you enjoy killing.

Once again hunting is not pest control.


A toddler in the uk understands this but grown men in the US cannot. It baffles me.

Its the rabbit, apple and baby test

[kelkel]

I'm a gun guy but not a hunter. Fascinating thread.

[hollowedzeus]

I think i need to start simplifying my langauge for the toddlers

[RaginCajun]

Beetlejuice... same logic as yourself. Feel free to edit your first post to avoid looking so silly.

Obs. Food isnt food. Theres food thats already dead. Then food that is food because you enjoy killing.

Once again hunting is not pest control.


A toddler in the uk understands this but grown men in the US cannot. It baffles me.

I help farmers and land owners kill pests (wild hogs) that are tearing up their crops and land. I enjoy helping people out and in return, I get the meat or donate it here

https://www.hunters4hungrylouisiana.org/contact-us.html

[hollowedzeus]

I help farmers and land owners kill pests (wild hogs) that are tearing up their crops and land. I enjoy helping people out and in return, I get the meat or donate it here

https://www.hunters4hungrylouisiana.org/contact-us.html

Pest control isnt hunting. Fair enough to you.

Ive eliminated pests also. Rats, pigeons wasps.

[RaginCajun]

Pest control isnt hunting. Fair enough to you.

Ive eliminated pests also. Rats, pigeons wasps.

I also eat these!

[Ernst]

Zeus has seemingly never done any research into where this pre-packaged meat in the store comes from or else he'd be a vegetarian. Life is cruel, buddy.

There's probably not a more humane way to put meat on the table than taking a wild animal yourself. You may also consider your need to balance your respect of the animal by using a method that offers more 'fair chance' to the animal and doesn't destroy all the meat. Arrows will destroy very little meat.

A little food for thought:
“I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs, a very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” ― Terry Pratchett

[cousinmuscles]

Just blanket bomb the forests. Theyre all going to die of starvation anyway. Spend a couple of million on some rockets and napalm strike nature.

Why dont we kill humans because lots of them wither away and die of cancer.

Why do we allow newborns to survive knowing that something bad very well could happen to them causing there death?

I think you're wrong here mate, the point Beetlegeuse made here holds well. The death of these particular animals is one of the mildest ways for them to die. Our intervention of controlling their population is part of maintaining the ecosystems in which they exist.

The "industrially" raised animals are a completely different matter. Over time (perhaps not even in our lifetime) these bad business practices eventually disappear, I don't think such crap can be hidden from the public eye forever nor will people never realize what good meat really is like. The final product sucks and is too expensive. The torment on the soul of the animal passes on to you and you suffer unexplainable physical and mental conditions.

Lamb thigh has always been my favorite due to the fat and it's texture, when grilled it becomes excellent. These animals breed and grow to become tasty.

[cousinmuscles]

I also eat these!

No thanks lol what a disgusting animal.

[hollowedzeus]

Animals kill each other. We are not animals.

I do not accept that you are doing the animals a favour by hunting and killing them. Absolutely not. Doesnt matter how many people say it.

And ive seen the youtube videos animals mistreated... abused... all sorts of horrors.

Me being vegan doesnt stop it. Hunting your own food doesnt stop it all this does is add to the death toll.

Eat whats already dead. Dont kill again.

The enviroment does not require obs to go out and shoot 5 squirrels and for rajun to go catch 6 grabs.

If anyone has any sensible argument other than 'i like killing things' (which i accept as an argument... its just not a good one) then batter in.

[hollowedzeus]

Cousin i dont think theres been a more ridiculous point made on here until beetle turned up. I actually laughed out loud when i read it

[cousinmuscles]

Cousin i dont think theres been a more ridiculous point made on here until beetle turned up. I actually laughed out loud when i read it

We are animals. Here you made your own definition of humans as a different type of entity. You have made assumptions of your conscience and your perception of your conscience and its relation to reality. In short you have created a set of values and some axiom(s) of what choice humans should make. But you fail to realize all the accultured information you have inherited which has led to your thoughts. I have an innate desire for grilled lamb thigh which was encoded into me long before we started raising animals, actually meat is what lead to the evolution of our brain (energy dense food, less time spent getting this energy and growth of the brain et.c.)

To quote Aristotle "Humans are political animals". We are not much different with our taste, preference systems et.c. But we are inherently much more advanced intellectually and thus value the "soul" of a human differently of that of other animals. And now we are going back to classical philosophy. I'm serious and it would take ages for me to try and go through it all (not to mention I barely remember the order of everything)...

You are also wrong in eating what is already dead, as you are supporting a bad industry. Change will only occur when you stop financing its existence.

[clarky.]

Yes, love bow hunting! You have to get close, really close! Those videos are crazy! I haven’t been on any moose or elk hunt yet but would love the chance to. Not sure about a moose but would love to pack my freezer with some elk meat.

Hey Marcus, guess what, there is also bow fishing!!! And bow fishing with titties! Haha! Yes, I’m a sick cunt!
Lol lol you got him now

https://youtu.be/Hqpz_dSQD8U

haha only fuking you lol you sick cunt

So what do you hunt with a bow?

Hahahaha that same as we would all hunt big guy. .

[clarky.]

Yes, love bow hunting! You have to get close, really close! Those videos are crazy! I haven’t been on any moose or elk hunt yet but would love the chance to. Not sure about a moose but would love to pack my freezer with some elk meat.

Hey Marcus, guess what, there is also bow fishing!!! And bow fishing with titties! Haha! Yes, I’m a sick cunt!

https://youtu.be/Hqpz_dSQD8U

haha only fuking you lol you sick cunt

So what do you hunt with a bow?

I help farmers and land owners kill pests (wild hogs) that are tearing up their crops and land. I enjoy helping people out and in return, I get the meat or donate it here

https://www.hunters4hungrylouisiana.org/contact-us.html

Very nice RC.

[Mr.BB]

Eat whats already dead. Dont kill again.

Your understanding of supply chain is a bit poor.

At the end of the day hunting in western countries is controlled, most species requires hunting for control purposes as we eradicated their natural predators. Somebody has to do it.

The meat at supermarket is a completely different subject.

[RaginCajun]

Animals kill each other. We are not animals.

I do not accept that you are doing the animals a favour by hunting and killing them. Absolutely not. Doesnt matter how many people say it.

And ive seen the youtube videos animals mistreated... abused... all sorts of horrors.

Me being vegan doesnt stop it. Hunting your own food doesnt stop it all this does is add to the death toll.

Eat whats already dead. Dont kill again.

The enviroment does not require obs to go out and shoot 5 squirrels and for rajun to go catch 6 grabs.

If anyone has any sensible argument other than 'i like killing things' (which i accept as an argument... its just not a good one) then batter in.

The environment provides plenty of food and there are limits and regulations on all animals. Actually, I think when in season, I can bag 8 squirrels a day, and catch 12 dozen crabs in a day. Some people where I live are commercial crabbers and provide for their family this way. The crabs are not ‘dead’ until they hit the boiling pot.

I don’t think most people go out to ‘kill things’ as you say, they merely take what they need to provide for others and themselves. Of course, there are also exceptions to the rule and there are plenty of them out there

[Obs]

Your understanding of supply chain is a bit poor.

At the end of the day hunting in western countries is controlled, most species requires hunting for control purposes as we eradicated their natural predators. Somebody has to do it.

The meat at supermarket is a completely different subject.

Just when I think you are a complete liberal feminine european dude... You say something like this.
You really do suprise me sometimes. Thats not easy.

[Mr.BB]

Just when I think you are a complete liberal feminine european dude... You say something like this.
You really do suprise me sometimes. Thats not easy.

Err.. no Im south european, the liberal feminine shit is further up north.

[kelkel]

We are animals.

Except for MS-13....

[Obs]

Err.. no Im south european, the liberal feminine shit is further up north.

I have a internal voice narrative for each member here. When I read their posts I read it in my head as I picture their voice.

Kel sounds like my buddy Richard because mentally they are twins except kel is a less angry and has more class. RajuinCajun sounds like the farmer Fran off waterboy. Marcus Sounds like Dorian Yates except a gravellier voice. Zeus sounds like a typical british 20 year old. Cousin sounds like... I wont even go there.

You though I always pictured sounding like:



A lot of smart people on here sound like this in my head. Anyway it seems I was wrong. You aren't gay after all. Now I gotta train my fuckin brain to use a different voice for you. Do you know how hard that is?

[hollowedzeus]

We are animals. Here you made your own definition of humans as a different type of entity. You have made assumptions of your conscience and your perception of your conscience and its relation to reality. In short you have created a set of values and some axiom(s) of what choice humans should make. But you fail to realize all the accultured information you have inherited which has led to your thoughts. I have an innate desire for grilled lamb thigh which was encoded into me long before we started raising animals, actually meat is what lead to the evolution of our brain (energy dense food, less time spent getting this energy and growth of the brain et.c.)

To quote Aristotle "Humans are political animals". We are not much different with our taste, preference systems et.c. But we are inherently much more advanced intellectually and thus value the "soul" of a human differently of that of other animals. And now we are going back to classical philosophy. I'm serious and it would take ages for me to try and go through it all (not to mention I barely remember the order of everything)...

You are also wrong in eating what is already dead, as you are supporting a bad industry. Change will only occur when you stop financing its existence.

Whens the last time you saw an animal drive to the supermarket to buy the weekly shopping?

[hollowedzeus]

Your understanding of supply chain is a bit poor.

At the end of the day hunting in western countries is controlled, most species requires hunting for control purposes as we eradicated their natural predators. Somebody has to do it.

The meat at supermarket is a completely different subject.

People getting there rocks off killing a deer does not impact the food chain.

People do it because they enjoy it. And yes meat in the shop is a different subject.

Somehow discussion turned to this rather than boe hunting being inhumane though

[marcus300]

Ok guys I've read your replies and I just want to give this one more try here so please stay with me on this and just tell me if you see my point on this or am I missing something ( reason why I started the thread).


Zeus is extremely passionate about this so lets not knock him out of the water and come from another angle here.


Please look at this with innocent eyes, don't look at it as you agree with bow hunting and don't look at it as hunting is all wrong. I've read all replies and ok I will accept the hunting and killing of pest to preserve the land and farmers.


I will also accept in this instance to put forward that hunting for the freshest meat and not buying heavily mass production farm meats is far better for us and also the hunting aspect is appealing


I will also accept in this scenario that using a gun to hunt and shoot an animal for its meat is the best way to kill the animal, from what ive seen and I've seen a lot of videos, that a bullet usually drops the elk or moose instantly and dies


I will also accept there are licences for hunting for meats and also these animals are vast and their species is highly populated and its something you have been brought up with


Now...in this scenario where I have come half way here and it still does trouble me what I've said and what I will accept but I am looking at this innocent here so please do the same. What still gets me and surely this is clear to see is that hunting for the thrill and enjoyment of the hunt with a bow, what does not in most cases kill the animal instantly and usually they run off and bleed out and the hunters may track the animal for another hour or so tracking its blood for pure pleasure and enjoyment for a skill isn't acceptable?


These lovely majestic animals are absolutely stunning shouldn't be the game of someone's thrill, pleasure and hunted in such a barbaric way.


This is why I started the thread and alot of people have tried and failed to justify what I've asked. Can anyone who is for hunting see the your way of understanding that yes hunting with a bow isn't the best way to do this if you look at this with innocent eyes?.


I will accept a lot of things if I take myself out of my shoes and look at this from someone who is impartial can you?

[cousinmuscles]

I have a internal voice narrative for each member here. When I read their posts I read it in my head as I picture their voice.

Kel sounds like my buddy Richard because mentally they are twins except kel is a less angry and has more class. RajuinCajun sounds like the farmer Fran off waterboy. Marcus Sounds like Dorian Yates except a gravellier voice. Zeus sounds like a typical british 20 year old. Cousin sounds like... I wont even go there.

You though I always pictured sounding like:



A lot of smart people on here sound like this in my head. Anyway it seems I was wrong. You aren't gay after all. Now I gotta train my fuckin brain to use a different voice for you. Do you know how hard that is?

Now I see why you have been posting the butt pic. You have been fantasizing something, that's why you fantasize our voices now. Hahahahaha

[cousinmuscles]

Ok guys I've read your replies and I just want to give this one more try here so please stay with me on this and just tell me if you see my point on this or am I missing something ( reason why I started the thread).


Zeus is extremely passionate about this so lets not knock him out of the water and come from another angle here.


Please look at this with innocent eyes, don't look at it as you agree with bow hunting and don't look at it as hunting is all wrong. I've read all replies and ok I will accept the hunting and killing of pest to preserve the land and farmers.


I will also accept in this instance to put forward that hunting for the freshest meat and not buying heavily mass production farm meats is far better for us and also the hunting aspect is appealing


I will also accept in this scenario that using a gun to hunt and shoot an animal for its meat is the best way to kill the animal, from what ive seen and I've seen a lot of videos, that a bullet usually drops the elk or moose instantly and dies


I will also accept there are licences for hunting for meats and also these animals are vast and their species is highly populated and its something you have been brought up with


Now...in this scenario where I have come half way here and it still does trouble me what I've said and what I will accept but I am looking at this innocent here so please do the same. What still gets me and surely this is clear to see is that hunting for the thrill and enjoyment of the hunt with a bow, what does not in most cases kill the animal instantly and usually they run off and bleed out and the hunters may track the animal for another hour or so tracking its blood for pure pleasure and enjoyment for a skill isn't acceptable?


These lovely majestic animals are absolutely stunning shouldn't be the game of someone's thrill, pleasure and hunted in such a barbaric way.


This is why I started the thread and alot of people have tried and failed to justify what I've asked. Can anyone who is for hunting see the your way of understanding that yes hunting with a bow isn't the best way to do this if you look at this with innocent eyes?.


I will accept a lot of things if I take myself out of my shoes and look at this from someone who is impartial can you?

Marcus, excellent point.If you're using a bow and you have the animal suffering for an hour+, chasing it in the wild while it's bleeding to death, I think you should rethink your methods. It shouldn't be intentional. I agree we went off point.

[SocioMachiavelli]

So who controls our population?

[Ernst]

If I may, I will address a few of the points you bring up here. Dear lord, please forgive me for this long and boring post I am about to make.

In regards to the rifle ‘dropping’ game while the bow does not: unfortunately, the reality is that this is not quite true. One would generally shoot for the lungs/heart, regardless of whether you are using a bullet or an arrow, to ensure a quick and clean kill. Those videos you’ve seen? Well, people like to post their best moments, not their worst. Look deeper and you'll see at least as many videos where they do not just drop. Tracking for at least a short distance is common enough even with a good, clean, and ethical shot from a rifle.

So why not just use a bigger, faster bullet? Well, just how much gun should I bring before you qualify it as ‘humane?’ The animal will be just as dead at the end and that bigger, faster bullet will ruin more meat. Shall we just call in an artillery strike and make chili and sausage with whatever’s left?

So what about the head shot? You do not shoot for the head because unless it is a absolutely perfect shot where you hit a vital portion of the brain because if you are even a tiny bit off you instead grievously wound the animal and it will run away and die somewhere in pain and misery. Better to bleed it out internally with the heart/lung shot. It’s quick enough.

So you can see it’s not as different as maybe you thought, though with a bow you have to get a lot closer and bring a lot more skill to the hunt. So now what’s so extra barbaric about bow hunting? The game has a much better chance of getting away and it will likely suffer no more or less than being shot with a rifle.

Now, this general argument does not address hunter skill and ethics. Getting a clean kill with a bow and arrow requires much more patience and skill. If the hunter does not deliver in the this regard (and it is definitely much more difficult to do so with a bow than a rifle) then the animal will be more likely to suffer/escape/etc.

Now getting a bit off the bow hunting and addressing hunting in general...

Hunting and shooting is definitely part of the culture here. We have a hard time understanding the cultural gap that exists between us and the city folks (and Brits) who seem to see weapons as nothing but instruments of crime and hunting as something sick and deranged, when at the same time they enjoy freedoms and safety won with those same weapons while eating a plate of meat that someone else killed for them. It’s hypocrisy of the highest degree in our eyes so you will have a harder time getting cool, reasoned arguments versus emotional ones. Where you see brutality and bloodlust we see hunting and fishing as mankind connecting with nature and his primal raison d’etre as a provider.

Now I'll admit, I could give a shyt about hunting myself. I’ll cheerfully shoot the deer that presents itself but I’m not paying good money and going out at the ass crack of dawn to find one just to get some thrill out of killing. Not really my bag. If I want a thrill, I'll go skydiving. But if you don't have the balls to kill something, you don't deserve to eat it. If you respect the animal so damn much, try looking it in the eye. If you cannot abide one moment of animal suffering or killing then don’t eat meat, it’s not for you. There is no such thing as a perfectly humane way to kill.

[Mr.BB]

Now...in this scenario where I have come half way here and it still does trouble me what I've said and what I will accept but I am looking at this innocent here so please do the same. What still gets me and surely this is clear to see is that hunting for the thrill and enjoyment of the hunt with a bow, what does not in most cases kill the animal instantly and usually they run off and bleed out and the hunters may track the animal for another hour or so tracking its blood for pure pleasure and enjoyment for a skill isn't acceptable?


These lovely majestic animals are absolutely stunning shouldn't be the game of someone's thrill, pleasure and hunted in such a barbaric way.


This is why I started the thread and alot of people have tried and failed to justify what I've asked. Can anyone who is for hunting see the your way of understanding that yes hunting with a bow isn't the best way to do this if you look at this with innocent eyes?.

I will try explain it to you.

The only way for insta kill is head shot, no hunter aims for head as it will ruin the trophy and there are high possibility of missing target. All hunters aim for heart and lungs area, 10 sec drop if heart or aortha hit, 30 secs for lungs.

Personnal opinion, bow (compound as recurves dont really have enough power) are a lot more fair for the animal. You only shot with a bow from close range, less than 15 meters ideally, max I would say 30 meters. You may see videos of higher distances, but thats only for show off, very special conditions or plain assholes. Shotting a wild boar from 10-15 meters does require a lot of guts, if it charges (and they mostly do) you are royally fucked. You dont have time for anything with a beast charging right at you at 30mph. Their teeth will cut your legs butter if it hits you.

Now imagine an elk at 15mt... or even a bear... If you take a shot you have to make sure its a kill shot.

Guns are different. You lay down, look down your big scope at 200,300, hey maybe 400mts, no? Its not up and personal like with a bow. Still at the end of the day its necessary for some species, being done by a ranger or by a amateur hunter that paid a lot for the right of hunting maybe a discussion, but the end result its the same.

If you are criticizing the "amateurs" that take pleasure from doing it, its a dead end discussion. Its like criticizing BDSM, or sado masochism sexual "practices", you are not going to be able to change their tastes.

[marcus300]

If I may, I will address a few of the points you bring up here. Dear lord, please forgive me for this long and boring post I am about to make.

In regards to the rifle ‘dropping’ game while the bow does not: unfortunately, the reality is that this is not quite true. One would generally shoot for the lungs/heart, regardless of whether you are using a bullet or an arrow, to ensure a quick and clean kill. Those videos you’ve seen? Well, people like to post their best moments, not their worst. Look deeper and you'll see at least as many videos where they do not just drop. Tracking for at least a short distance is common enough even with a good, clean, and ethical shot from a rifle.

So why not just use a bigger, faster bullet? Well, just how much gun should I bring before you qualify it as ‘humane?’ The animal will be just as dead at the end and that bigger, faster bullet will ruin more meat. Shall we just call in an artillery strike and make chili and sausage with whatever’s left?

So what about the head shot? You do not shoot for the head because unless it is a absolutely perfect shot where you hit a vital portion of the brain because if you are even a tiny bit off you instead grievously wound the animal and it will run away and die somewhere in pain and misery. Better to bleed it out internally with the heart/lung shot. It’s quick enough.

So you can see it’s not as different as maybe you thought, though with a bow you have to get a lot closer and bring a lot more skill to the hunt. So now what’s so extra barbaric about bow hunting? The game has a much better chance of getting away and it will likely suffer no more or less than being shot with a rifle.

Now, this general argument does not address hunter skill and ethics. Getting a clean kill with a bow and arrow requires much more patience and skill. If the hunter does not deliver in the this regard (and it is definitely much more difficult to do so with a bow than a rifle) then the animal will be more likely to suffer/escape/etc.

Now getting a bit off the bow hunting and addressing hunting in general...

Hunting and shooting is definitely part of the culture here. We have a hard time understanding the cultural gap that exists between us and the city folks (and Brits) who seem to see weapons as nothing but instruments of crime and hunting as something sick and deranged, when at the same time they enjoy freedoms and safety won with those same weapons while eating a plate of meat that someone else killed for them. It’s hypocrisy of the highest degree in our eyes so you will have a harder time getting cool, reasoned arguments versus emotional ones. Where you see brutality and bloodlust we see hunting and fishing as mankind connecting with nature and his primal raison d’etre as a provider.

Now I'll admit, I could give a shyt about hunting myself. I’ll cheerfully shoot the deer that presents itself but I’m not paying good money and going out at the ass crack of dawn to find one just to get some thrill out of killing. Not really my bag. If I want a thrill, I'll go skydiving. But if you don't have the balls to kill something, you don't deserve to eat it. If you respect the animal so damn much, try looking it in the eye. If you cannot abide one moment of animal suffering or killing then don’t eat meat, it’s not for you. There is no such thing as a perfectly humane way to kill.

Its fine to be lengthy and long Ernst especially from yourself but I must admit I was disappointed in your reply.


Your still looking at this through a hunters eyes, not once did you look at it from a none hunters eyes or even someone on the fence with it who's impartial. You didn't take on anything except defend your position as a hunter.


I will admit and I must listen to a hunter regarding rifles and bows because ive never used any so I have to sit back and listen but in consideration you should sit back and just put yourself in someone else's position like I said otherwise its all pointless.


All I can say is the professional bow videos on YouTube ive watch and I will repeat my wording in most cases or usual case is when ive watch these professional videos by some serious channels the bow doesn't drop the animal straight away and a big part of it is tracking it and letting it bleed out. If you say different that's fine I am saying from all the videos ive watched usually and in most case the bow doesn't drop them.


In most cases on the professional shooting videos they seem to drop them instantly. You say different that's fine


You mention skill and patience and the hunters ethics yet again I explain take yourself out of this mind-set for this scenario and try and be impartial.


I didn't say anything about me not being able to accept an animal suffering, I didn't say anything about me eating meat. I didn't say I didn't have the balls to hurt an animal or kill it and to even say that kind of sums it up to a pointless post. I didn't say anything about me thinking its sick or deranged or even about fishing ( which is a whole different fuking topic lol) or peoples freedoms, what i did ask is take yourself out of your eyes for 5 mins . If you read the post you see I will accept certain things if I am seeing this through innocent eyes which is something you can't or fail to comprehend.


You state " Getting a clean kill with a bow and arrow requires much more patience and skill. If the hunter does not deliver in the this regard (and it is definitely much more difficult to do so with a bow than a rifle) then the animal will be more likely to suffer/escape/etc."


This is the exact thing I am trying to say, can you not see this not through your eyes as someone whos shoots or hunts, vegan or animal rights campaigner- Just your statement above says it all. I will accept the kill ( like I said) I will accept the meat (like I said) but why use something what is harder to do and in most cases triggers a longer kill. Don't defend the view can you see it if you take the hunter out of you? If you can't that's fine and to be honest I doubt you can otherwise you would of. One last thing I will agree on is your right there is no such thing as perfectly humane way to kill.

[marcus300]

I will try explain it to you.

The only way for insta kill is head shot, no hunter aims for head as it will ruin the trophy and there are high possibility of missing target. All hunters aim for heart and lungs area, 10 sec drop if heart or aortha hit, 30 secs for lungs.

Personnal opinion, bow (compound as recurves dont really have enough power) are a lot more fair for the animal. You only shot with a bow from close range, less than 15 meters ideally, max I would say 30 meters. You may see videos of higher distances, but thats only for show off, very special conditions or plain assholes. Shotting a wild boar from 10-15 meters does require a lot of guts, if it charges (and they mostly do) you are royally fucked. You dont have time for anything with a beast charging right at you at 30mph. Their teeth will cut your legs butter if it hits you.

Now imagine an elk at 15mt... or even a bear... If you take a shot you have to make sure its a kill shot.

Guns are different. You lay down, look down your big scope at 200,300, hey maybe 400mts, no? Its not up and personal like with a bow. Still at the end of the day its necessary for some species, being done by a ranger or by a amateur hunter that paid a lot for the right of hunting maybe a discussion, but the end result its the same.

If you are criticizing the "amateurs" that take pleasure from doing it, its a dead end discussion. Its like criticizing BDSM, or sado masochism sexual "practices", you are not going to be able to change their tastes.

Again stop looking at this from a defence position lol and don't even start going to the BDSM or S&M mate come on you might aswell ask me on a fishing holiday. Ruin the trophy mate come on hahaha hahah

I can see the hunters cant even question anything they do, I did which everyone fails to understand and I can see I am slogging a dead horse so to speak lol.

Back down to my S&M cellar anyone wants to join me all bows are welcomed

[Mooseman33]

i dont give a shit about hunting. I have real shit in my life to deal with or worry about.
I dont hunt, buy my meat from butcher, and guess what, i dont give a flying fvck how it got there.

i cant watch them videos as i really get upset when i see animals hurt, hence why i cant hunt.

but go hunt, or dont, i dont fvking care, i just know I want meat daily, so sorry little or big animals, somethings got to die to feed someone else.

[RaginCajun]

I have a internal voice narrative for each member here. When I read their posts I read it in my head as I picture their voice.

Kel sounds like my buddy Richard because mentally they are twins except kel is a less angry and has more class. RajuinCajun sounds like the farmer Fran off waterboy. Marcus Sounds like Dorian Yates except a gravellier voice. Zeus sounds like a typical british 20 year old. Cousin sounds like... I wont even go there.

You though I always pictured sounding like:



A lot of smart people on here sound like this in my head. Anyway it seems I was wrong. You aren't gay after all. Now I gotta train my fuckin brain to use a different voice for you. Do you know how hard that is?

[RaginCajun]

Ok guys I've read your replies and I just want to give this one more try here so please stay with me on this and just tell me if you see my point on this or am I missing something ( reason why I started the thread).


Zeus is extremely passionate about this so lets not knock him out of the water and come from another angle here.


Please look at this with innocent eyes, don't look at it as you agree with bow hunting and don't look at it as hunting is all wrong. I've read all replies and ok I will accept the hunting and killing of pest to preserve the land and farmers.


I will also accept in this instance to put forward that hunting for the freshest meat and not buying heavily mass production farm meats is far better for us and also the hunting aspect is appealing


I will also accept in this scenario that using a gun to hunt and shoot an animal for its meat is the best way to kill the animal, from what ive seen and I've seen a lot of videos, that a bullet usually drops the elk or moose instantly and dies


I will also accept there are licences for hunting for meats and also these animals are vast and their species is highly populated and its something you have been brought up with


Now...in this scenario where I have come half way here and it still does trouble me what I've said and what I will accept but I am looking at this innocent here so please do the same. What still gets me and surely this is clear to see is that hunting for the thrill and enjoyment of the hunt with a bow, what does not in most cases kill the animal instantly and usually they run off and bleed out and the hunters may track the animal for another hour or so tracking its blood for pure pleasure and enjoyment for a skill isn't acceptable?


These lovely majestic animals are absolutely stunning shouldn't be the game of someone's thrill, pleasure and hunted in such a barbaric way.


This is why I started the thread and alot of people have tried and failed to justify what I've asked. Can anyone who is for hunting see the your way of understanding that yes hunting with a bow isn't the best way to do this if you look at this with innocent eyes?.


I will accept a lot of things if I take myself out of my shoes and look at this from someone who is impartial can you?

Great reply Marcus!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it’s great to have discussions. Everyone was brought up in different cultures all over the world here on this forum and it’s great to see that we are all different.

[bethdoth]

Wow after a lot of reading I don't recall reading about hunting. I have read a lot about killing a wild animal. Well let me enlighten you a bit. Hunting is about spending time with your children, family and friends. It all starts with scouting where you want to hunt (aka walking in the woods a tree huggers dream) no gun or bow, just trying to learn where they are feeding, bedding down, staging etc... Some go as far as feeding the deer all year with food plots of different crops.

Now that you have found the perfect spot, you may again go out in the woods with your grandson and clear some shooting lanes (for clean kill shot), put up a stand or blind.

Ok getting close to hunting season! Now you go to the range with your grandson (bow or rifle) and you practice shooting together ensuring that you have the skills to make a good clean shot.

Now it's hunting season. You go up to camp or where ever you have chosen. Spend time with family friends etc.... You walk out to your stand or blind and you sit there peacefully waiting for that perfect shot and legal buck. You may sit like this fighting falling a sleep for a day or two weeks before you actually get to shot your prey!

My point is killing the animal for food isn't all there is to hunting. That's about 2 seconds of hours and hours of other activities, that even the most liberal tree hugging liberal would enjoy.

[cousinmuscles]

Great reply Marcus!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it’s great to have discussions. Everyone was brought up in different cultures all over the world here on this forum and it’s great to see that we are all different.

That is a good reply indeed but I'd like to give my two cents on the suffering part. We can not classify as all types of suffering by all living things as the same. A mother giving birth suffers too. Others will say this type of suffering is a beautiful thing despite making them feel bad themselves. To put it shortly if your starting point is it is a beautiful creature thus should not suffer that way, then do we owe making an enclosed zoo for it and a painless euthanasia when it's time?

To claim that type of death is barbaric isn't an objective viewpoint either, that viewpoint has obvious cultural filters. For an objective viewpoint we go into a philosophical discussion and try and define what we are talking about and agree upon some axioms and logic we should adhere to...

[Obs]

Wow after a lot of reading I don't recall reading about hunting. I have read a lot about killing a wild animal. Well let me enlighten you a bit. Hunting is about spending time with your children, family and friends. It all starts with scouting where you want to hunt (aka walking in the woods a tree huggers dream) no gun or bow, just trying to learn where they are feeding, bedding down, staging etc... Some go as far as feeding the deer all year with food plots of different crops.

Now that you have found the perfect spot, you may again go out in the woods with your grandson and clear some shooting lanes (for clean kill shot), put up a stand or blind.

Ok getting close to hunting season! Now you go to the range with your grandson (bow or rifle) and you practice shooting together ensuring that you have the skills to make a good clean shot.

Now it's hunting season. You go up to camp or where ever you have chosen. Spend time with family friends etc.... You walk out to your stand or blind and you sit there peacefully waiting for that perfect shot and legal buck. You may sit like this fighting falling a sleep for a day or two weeks before you actually get to shot your prey!

My point is killing the animal for food isn't all there is to hunting. That's about 2 seconds of hours and hours of other activities, that even the most liberal tree hugging liberal would enjoy.

Very well put.
Some Europeans seem a little "Evolved" past tradition of any kind.
Taught myself a lot of shit in the woods growing up.
At 8 years old I would go out with a shotgun and matches, shoot a rabbit, clean it, start a fire, and put it on a spit. I like to remember the things I was allowed as a child and the do or die responsibility I learned as a child from shooting and hunting.

I think about that little boy when one of my kids brings me some pre packaged food they can't get open and I see a gap a mile wide between me as a child and them as a child.

If shit ever hits the fan, I will survive.
I hope I can make my kids understand what it means to survive in a soft ass world of pussys that would be totally fucked if the grocery store closed due to a disaster.

"Boys, if this gun goes off on accident or if you aren't sure of your target , someone will die, and your life will never be the same. I may not get to tell you this twice."

"Ok Dad."

Never fucked up.
Hard to get a 20 year old today to take something serious and God forbid it be physically demanding or difficult...

[David LoPan]

A great lesson I learned while growing up in the woods with livestock and hunting. It is not like it is on TV. And even though you think you're a cowboy and have a horse, DO NOT shoot a gun off a horse back like they do in the westerns.

[bethdoth]

This is what I mean I have so many great memories of hunting with my grandfather, my father, and now my grandsons. We had been sitting in a blind and it was the 3rd morning and we had not seen a shoot yet. My grandson was 6 at the time. A nice wide 8 point walked in. I woke up my grandson so he could watch, when he saw the deer he yelled "shoot it Papa"! Needless to say the deer won that day... he ran away with his white flag high!
Just a hunting memory. Do I have memories of the shot and the kill watching a deer crash through the woods even after a good clean heart shot ... yep I do. But it's everything else, even teaching a kid how to field dress a deer, skin it, quarter it, and cut it up into steaks etc...
Yep I will survive as well!
What happens when you play Hollywood and shot a rifle from the back of a horse?
OBS not a huge fan of rabbit unless I can make a stew or pot pie out of it!

[cousinmuscles]

Very well put.
Some Europeans seem a little "Evolved" past tradition of any kind.
Taught myself a lot of shit in the woods growing up.
At 8 years old I would go out with a shotgun and matches, shoot a rabbit, clean it, start a fire, and put it on a spit. I like to remember the things I was allowed as a child and the do or die responsibility I learned as a child from shooting and hunting.

I think about that little boy when one of my kids brings me some pre packaged food they can't get open and I see a gap a mile wide between me as a child and them as a child.

If shit ever hits the fan, I will survive.
I hope I can make my kids understand what it means to survive in a soft ass world of pussys that would be totally fucked if the grocery store closed due to a disaster.

"Boys, if this gun goes off on accident or if you aren't sure of your target , someone will die, and your life will never be the same. I may not get to tell you this twice."

"Ok Dad."

Never fucked up.
Hard to get a 20 year old today to take something serious and God forbid it be physically demanding or difficult...

In all seriousness you are making racist remarks.