College Sports and Homosexuality/Bisexuality

[Carlos_E]

I can't wait to get to the work field, to be turned down at business firms with my mba and a minority with a bba only because they want to make it more equal. Don't try to tell me i'm ignorant when you can't even relate to what I say. Can you?

You're telling me I can't relate? I grew up in an all white area. Not predominate, all white. My family the only minorities for an hour drive in every direction. When we graduated the school became came all white and has been ever sense. You're telling me I can't relate to people getting special treatment because the color of their skin? I had a guidance counselor tell my brother and I (both 4.0 students) we should consider going to a vocational school or skip college all together because she didn't feel it would be right for us. While she helped white kids who barely had a C average. I could go on and on with examples. You're saying you're getting mistreated because of the color of your skin. You're just getting a taste of what I've had to deal with.

Being a white male no longer holds privilege as it did 30-40 years ago. I'll give you the same advice my parents gave me. If you want to be treated as an equal you're going to have to work 10 times harder and make sure you're better than everyone else just so you can get fair treatment.

And no, I harbor no ill feelings towards whites because of the treatment I received. I hope the same applies to you.

[Carlos_E]

You have to go back to the begining of the thread..........to understand my response.........

I understand your point. He's a newbie, we know nothing about him and his first post is I'm gay woe is me. Personally I don't like that attitude. If you consider yourself a target or victim people will treat you as such.

[Da Bull]

I'm curious Carlos...why is it every debate you enter,you manage to turn it into a racial debate?

[50%Natural]

You're telling me I can't relate? I grew up in an all white area. Not predominate, all white. My family the only minorities for an hour drive in every direction. When we graduated the school became came all white and has been ever sense. You're telling me I can't relate to people getting special treatment because the color of their skin? I had a guidance counselor tell my brother and I (both 4.0 students) we should consider going to a vocational school or skip college all together because she didn't feel it would be right for us. While she helped white kids who barely had a C average. I could go on and on with examples. You're saying you're getting mistreated because of the color of your skin. You're just getting a taste of what I've had to deal with.

Being a white male no longer holds privilege as it did 30-40 years ago. I'll give you the same advice my parents gave me. If you want to be treated as an equal you're going to have to work 10 times harder and make sure you're better than everyone else just so you can get fair treatment.

And no, I harbor no ill feelings towards whites because of the treatment I received. I hope the same applies to you.

well, then we are in the same postition, why fight me on the topic if we are in agreement? You felt out of place, I feel that way, why argue about some miniscule detail of a particular post. I made sure I worded things so you would not feel I was attacking any one race, or you or any other minorities. It just really sucks that society is more worried about particular people's rights than others...We are not equal, will never be, and the government will make sure of it, even if they feel they are doing something to help(i.e. college tuition assistance for minorities).
That is what this topic is about right? Personal freedoms and rights? I just brought up a spin off of the original topic in which minorities usually don't consider...that's all. It just isn't fair for jesse jackson or some other liberal addvocate for reperations/civil rights to jump all over whites like it is my fault for problems in the minority communities, because that is what they do, buy votes. They make people think that they aren't equal, don't have everything the same...so they lead the ignorant(better context for this word) into thinking they are owed something by society, (white males)...where I fall in. Unfortunatley, if anyone were to speak about this in public, they would be shot down in a heart beat because i'd be labeled "racist" when all I really do is speak the blind truth. And honestly, after speaking from my heart...I can understand why lsu and mach500 got shot down or aren't looked at the same. I appologize for my generalizations. Because at one point or another...we are all the minority/different and the scrutiny of a system that can't be fixed, no matter who is in office or what laws come about.

[Carlos_E]

I'm curious Carlos...why is it every debate you enter,you manage to turn it into a racial debate?

Acutally I didn't. 50% brought it up. Read the previous page.

[Carlos_E]

well, then we are in the same postition, why fight me on the topic if we are in agreement? You felt out of place, I feel that way, why argue about some miniscule detail of a particular post. I made sure I worded things so you would not feel I was attacking any one race, or you or any other minorities. It just really sucks that society is more worried about particular people's rights than others...We are not equal, will never be, and the government will make sure of it, even if they feel they are doing something to help(i.e. college tuition assistance for minorities).
That is what this topic is about right? Personal freedoms and rights? I just brought up a spin off of the original topic in which minorities usually don't consider...that's all. It just isn't fair for jesse jackson or some other liberal addvocate for reperations/civil rights to jump all over whites like it is my fault for problems in the minority communities, because that is what they do, buy votes. They make people think that they aren't equal, don't have everything the same...so they lead the ignorant(better context for this word) into thinking they are owed something by society, (white males)...where I fall in. Unfortunatley, if anyone were to speak about this in public, they would be shot down in a heart beat because i'd be labeled "racist" when all I really do is speak the blind truth. And honestly, after speaking from my heart...I can understand why lsu and mach500 got shot down or aren't looked at the same. I appologize for my generalizations. Because at one point or another...we are all the minority/different and the scrutiny of a system that can't be fixed, no matter who is in office or what laws come about.

I agree, why argue.

But my the point I made to LSU stands. I think the reason everyone jumped on him is because of the way he worded his post. If you act like a victim you will be treated as such. If your teammates find out you're gay, big ****ing deal. That's they're problem not yours. Lift, get huge and if anyone threatens you or calls you a faggot kick their asses. I bet they won't do it again.

[LouMessina]

"You have to go back to the begining of the thread..........to understand my response........."

The quote I provided was taken from the first comment in the thread. So I pretty well covered all the ground.

You indicated his intent was "to promote his sexual orientation." I replied by quoting his original comments, thereby clarifying his intent, which clearly was to address a problem he found, and not his orientation.

Now you're saying there's something in the thread that justifies your position that he was only promoting his sexual orientation. Could you point us to it or quote it please?

[Carlos_E]

LouMessina, you need to work on that avatar.

[chicamahomico]

Teaching African Studies.

Hahaha funny guy.

[50%Natural]

I agree, why argue.

But my the point I made to LSU stands. I think the reason everyone jumped on him is because of the way he worded his post. If you act like a victim you will be treated as such. If your teammates find out you're gay, big ****ing deal. That's they're problem not yours. Lift, get huge and if anyone threatens you or calls you a faggot kick their asses. I bet they won't do it again.

Yeah it was worded pretty wierd, I though he was trying to solict gay members on the board when I first read it...yeah, that avitar needs some work Lou...

[50%Natural]

Now you're saying there's something in the thread that justifies your position that he was only promoting his sexual orientation. Could you point us to it or quote it please?

dude, the debate was yesterday...that's old beef

[Carlos_E]

that's old beef

Yeah, catch the **** up.

[BDTR]

I tell it like it is.

Hahaha funny guy.

[Mach500]

well, then we are in the same postition, why fight me on the topic if we are in agreement? You felt out of place, I feel that way, why argue about some miniscule detail of a particular post. I made sure I worded things so you would not feel I was attacking any one race, or you or any other minorities. It just really sucks that society is more worried about particular people's rights than others...We are not equal, will never be, and the government will make sure of it, even if they feel they are doing something to help(i.e. college tuition assistance for minorities).
That is what this topic is about right? Personal freedoms and rights? I just brought up a spin off of the original topic in which minorities usually don't consider...that's all. It just isn't fair for jesse jackson or some other liberal addvocate for reperations/civil rights to jump all over whites like it is my fault for problems in the minority communities, because that is what they do, buy votes. They make people think that they aren't equal, don't have everything the same...so they lead the ignorant(better context for this word) into thinking they are owed something by society, (white males)...where I fall in. Unfortunatley, if anyone were to speak about this in public, they would be shot down in a heart beat because i'd be labeled "racist" when all I really do is speak the blind truth. And honestly, after speaking from my heart...I can understand why lsu and mach500 got shot down or aren't looked at the same. I appologize for my generalizations. Because at one point or another...we are all the minority/different and the scrutiny of a system that can't be fixed, no matter who is in office or what laws come about.

I see that you were so nice to mention me in your thread. However, I have read it over a few times, and I can't figure out if you are giving me a hard time, or being nice? LOL.

I also want to say, I have agreed with a lot of what Tock has said on this board, but I personally disagree with there being a seperate board for gays and lesbians. I think it is positive that we are looked at as the same, and as equals. (Remember, this is coming from a guy that is gay.)

I also see Carlos' point. That if people felt or thought LSU was being a 'victim' they would not be quick to by sympathetic. I don't think that is what he was doing, considering I have talked to him on the phone a few times now.

But again, I personally really like the idea of being accepted as an equal on the board. I don't think I would want a divided board for gays and lesbians 'if' it was even an option. I agree with Carlos' view point on that one. I truly am not looking for special treatment. It feels good to just feel a part of the board. I just don't need the rude comments. I wouldn't do it to you, and I expect the same treatment. I agree with Carlos' on his statement he made, about what his parents told him. I know that has been true in my life. I have had to work 10 times as hard to be considered and equal. But all and all, if that is the way it is, so be it. All I want, is to be able to be myself, and have people accept me the same.

[Mach500]

The goverment may legistlate equal protection under the law, but you can't force people to be tolerant.

Myself, I have no problem with gay men. However, 99% of "bull-dyke" lesbians and I don't get along. They seem to dislike stereotypical masculine men, while at the same time embracing hyper masculinity. They don't tolerate me and I don't tolerate them.

Off the wall question, is that pic of you MMC78?

[LouMessina]

"dude, the debate was yesterday...that's old beef"

Dude, the post you're referring to was yesterday, minutes after the post it's in reference to...duh...are threads supposed to expire & close at a certain time, because I'm curious why you've been coming back to this thread on 2/4, 2/5, 2/6!

[spywizard]

Thank you...........exactly............

truth be told i can understand what he is trying to get across completely... it was both revealing, and thought out.. and yes alot of people look for direction, and understanding..

But ppl get put off so much when teh first thing that is put for is thier sexual preferences..

it is the attitude........very simular to
" My parents were slaves, you owe me"

Guess what............ we didn't send an army to south africa... your brothers kinsmen... enslaved you, killed your people, and sold you into slavery..

By the way............you are welcome for the education, the medical, and dental and the opportunity to experience a different life.......

I understand your point. He's a newbie, we know nothing about him and his first post is I'm gay woe is me. Personally I don't like that attitude. If you consider yourself a target or victim people will treat you as such.

[Dude-Man]

I know this is old news, but all i have to say on this subject is regardless of how much you fear your teammates finding out, chances are that they aren't going to care. They may be a less likely to shower around you, and may treat you a little differently, but almost no one in today's society would beat the crap out of someone just because they're gay. Your fears are a little irrational. You don't have to be open, but you don't have to hide it either.

[spywizard]

Wow.. chris............that's probably true.... just like i wouldn't care, never did in the military, nor in college.....

but then again.. I know alot of people that still have founded, and unfounded fear of being beaten up because of thier choices../lifestyle...

so both sides of the issue can be supported..

but good point...

I know this is old news, but all i have to say on this subject is regardless of how much you fear your teammates finding out, chances are that they aren't going to care. They may be a less likely to shower around you, and may treat you a little differently, but almost no one in today's society would beat the crap out of someone just because they're gay. Your fears are a little irrational. You don't have to be open, but you don't have to hide it either.

[Tock]

Why say you want to be accepted on the board then turn and around and segregate yourself? That doesn't make sense to me.

========

Well, I guess when I wrote
"Too bad there isn't an area on the board for gays and lesbians, like the area set aside for the women"
I hadn't really thought the issue through. I am surprised, though, at the intensity of the knee-jerk reaction to my little idle thought . . . It's not like it would take a significant outlay of resources to make it happen (or would it? I don't know for sure).
It doesn't really matter anyway, because the antipathy expressed leads me to beleive that the absent gay folk would be sorely missed. It's a sentiment that warms the cockels of my heart . . .
--Tock

[Tock]

Back on topic.

Tock, I still don't see why you want a seperate forum.

--

Ya, it was just an offhand comment . . . just musing about what it might be like in a forum where gay AS users could chat, making references to the realities they live with every day, without having the conversation hijacked.
But, I have to admit that not everything I write is well-thought out. Most of it is, but not everything.
As I previously mentioned, I had no idea how much the rest of the guys valued the presence of gays. Sometimes it's hard to tell, what with the berating and slurs and goading. It's not unlike a dysfunctional family relationship, where person A is so terrified that person B would leave that A attempts to control everything that B does so they can't get away. There's not much anyone can do here to keep anyone from leaving, but there's still the verbal abuse that the two situations have in common. Which leads me to think some of the outspoken straight guys here are indeed playing the role of the ones stricken with seperation anxiety. Which is pretty cool, once you think about it . . . makes me think guys like 50%Natural (the other half must be 50%Wit) have a sublimated interest in womanless encounters . . . that they've got a little bit of what I've got in spades . . . that we're actually more buddies than they let on . . .
And who could leave something as swell as this?
--Tock

[Tock]

This was a great thread to read.....

Yah, ain't it cool, that the most lively and most read threads on this board are related to gay topics? Kinda warms the very cockels of my heart . . .
--Tock

[Carlos_E]

========

Well, I guess when I wrote
"Too bad there isn't an area on the board for gays and lesbians, like the area set aside for the women"
I hadn't really thought the issue through. I am surprised, though, at the intensity of the knee-jerk reaction to my little idle thought . . . It's not like it would take a significant outlay of resources to make it happen (or would it? I don't know for sure).
It doesn't really matter anyway, because the antipathy expressed leads me to beleive that the absent gay folk would be sorely missed. It's a sentiment that warms the cockels of my heart . . .
--Tock

The idea is silly. Post what you want. If others don't like it, they should skip the thread. Or if they are that terrified they should put all of the gay members on their ignore list. Me, I have more important things to worry about than who's sticking what where.

[Mach500]

Hey 50% natural, you still haven't answered my question....

[50%Natural]

Dude, the post you're referring to was yesterday, minutes after the post it's in reference to...duh...are threads supposed to expire & close at a certain time, because I'm curious why you've been coming back to this thread on 2/4, 2/5, 2/6!

so...I was staying current the whole time. Why point me out as Carlos and I both agreed that you were debating what had already been done with. It doesn't make sense If we are on page 4 of a thread and you jump in to quote like the third response on the first page.

Mach-No, I wasn't giving you a hard time...If you read the last couple sentences of that post, you will see that I can understand your position because even though the situation you refer(gay) to and what I talk about(lack of aid) we are both I guess you could say different when compared to others in the same position. Homosexuality may not be considered "normal" or "right" by a lot while being a white college student, I don't get the same privlages as others because of the color of my skin. I did apologize for my assumptions earlier in the thread as when I wrote that thread out I guess I could relate somewhat to what you go through on a day to day basis.

Tock-I am not interested in womanless encounters and we'll just leave it at that

[50%Natural]

--

makes me think guys like 50%Natural (the other half must be 50%Wit)
--Tock

I'll take that as a compliment

[MMC78]

Off the wall question, is that pic of you MMC78?

I wish. That's the cover image of Arnold from his Encyclopedia. Cheers.

[spywizard]

Are you delusional???

Even a pathilogical sociopath can justify anything... that seems to be your mo..

agree with someone.. then come up with a conclusion that fits your needs..

This isn't statistical analysis... where you come up with the outcome, and then find the data to support it...

In your fantasy world... do you believe that everyone wants you??

if so.. maybe it's that you are alot like us... and you are simply trying to justify in your mind why you were unable to succeed with women... is that the issue..

you were rejected too many times by women??

I can't believe i got sucked back into this..

and the point you make regarding this thread being viewed alot..

the one that is currently more... is "just keeping my post count up" an endless worthless story line of people goofing around.

--

Ya, it was just an offhand comment . . . just musing about what it might be like in a forum where gay AS users could chat, making references to the realities they live with every day, without having the conversation hijacked.
But, I have to admit that not everything I write is well-thought out. Most of it is, but not everything.
As I previously mentioned, I had no idea how much the rest of the guys valued the presence of gays. Sometimes it's hard to tell, what with the berating and slurs and goading. It's not unlike a dysfunctional family relationship, where person A is so terrified that person B would leave that A attempts to control everything that B does so they can't get away. There's not much anyone can do here to keep anyone from leaving, but there's still the verbal abuse that the two situations have in common. Which leads me to think some of the outspoken straight guys here are indeed playing the role of the ones stricken with seperation anxiety. Which is pretty cool, once you think about it . . . makes me think guys like 50%Natural (the other half must be 50%Wit) have a sublimated interest in womanless encounters . . . that they've got a little bit of what I've got in spades . . . that we're actually more buddies than they let on . . .
And who could leave something as swell as this?
--Tock

[Dude-Man]

It all comes back to the idea of ethical relativism vs. ethical absolutism.

[spywizard]

****>>>>>>.............. thanks.. that puts what i was trying to say in better terms...

My degrees are somewhat limited............. sorry.............

thanks chris.........

It all comes back to the idea of ethical relativism vs. ethical absolutism.

[Carlos_E]

if so.. maybe it's that you are alot like us... and you are simply trying to justify in your mind why you were unable to succeed with women... is that the issue..

you were rejected too many times by women??

Someone being gay has nothing to do with being rejected by women.

[Mach500]

OK, I have to say I don't agree with Tock. I'm not taking sides, but I think that was pushing the envelope. I wouldn't go that far. I think that might have been 'pushed' a little far, because thinking you 'might' be rejeted by the other 'straight' guys is too painful. I believe there are guys that flat out don't like me on this site, because I'm gay. And that's ok. I just want their comments to be kept to themselves. Aside from that, I really appreciate the acceptance I feel from a lot of the guys on the board. I think making an grandiose assumption like that Tock, might make the guys want to rebell, to show you might be 'wrong.' I don't think that is what we want. I think we want things to work. I don't care about being right, what I want is to be able to lift, and be myself, and not be verbally (or othewise) bashed.

Isn't that what we want? We just want to feel accepted, or at least, left alone, if someone doesn't like us.

[spywizard]

Hey Mach... I have been here since dec 2003... i have never seen anyone bashed... if that helps...

If you check out the "are there any Gay BB" thread... i don't think there are anywhere near the issues this thread has seen..

I think in part that is because it started off on a bad foot... and alot of us took offense to the issue that we were informed that you were gay...

how does that effect your ability to be a body builder?? It doesn't...

at the same time... don't make assumptions that all of our lives we (different people) haven't had and been in your same shoes... example.. I was a cop for 6 years... like it or not..........

Mass hates them... and alot of people here hate cops, because of alot of different reasons.. so alot of us have been in situations in our lives where we are afraid to be ourselves....

What i am saying is you don't need to be....

You are welcome here... To AR..... add to the community... but if you keep making everything about your sexual preferences... you have to accept that it won't always be friendly..

peace.........

OK, I have to say I don't agree with Tock. I'm not taking sides, but I think that was pushing the envelope. I wouldn't go that far. I think that might have been 'pushed' a little far, because thinking you 'might' be rejeted by the other 'straight' guys is too painful. I believe there are guys that flat out don't like me on this site, because I'm gay. And that's ok. I just want their comments to be kept to themselves. Aside from that, I really appreciate the acceptance I feel from a lot of the guys on the board. I think making an grandiose assumption like that Tock, might make the guys want to rebell, to show you might be 'wrong.' I don't think that is what we want. I think we want things to work. I don't care about being right, what I want is to be able to lift, and be myself, and not be verbally (or othewise) bashed.

Isn't that what we want? We just want to feel accepted, or at least, left alone, if someone doesn't like us.

[50%Natural]

at the same time... don't make assumptions that all of our lives we (different people) haven't had and been in your same shoes... example.. I was a cop for 6 years... like it or not..........

Mass hates them... and alot of people here hate cops, because of alot of different reasons.. so alot of us have been in situations in our lives where we are afraid to be ourselves....

yeah, and I wait tables and people don't like to tip but they have no idea what it is like
also, sorry to the guys who had a passionate debate going here when I threw in my .02...but it kinda relates in a way that I am angered at the way i'm treated because of my skin color and you are mistreated at times do to sexual preference.

[Tock]

1) Are you delusional???

2) In your fantasy world... do you believe that everyone wants you??

3) you were rejected too many times by women??

1) I like to think of my condition as "visionary."

2) No, not everyone . . . but some of y'all are real friendly.

3) I've never been rejected by women, oddly enough. Of course, I've never been that interested in 'em in the first place. But before I figured out I'm gay, I had a girlfriend, and she and I were going to get married and go through a Salvation Army seminary together, then spend our lives as Salvation Army officers. I decided to spend 4 years in the USAF so I could go to school with my Veterans benefits, but about 6 months after Basic Training, it slowly dawned on me that I wasn't straight. One year, 10 months, and 5 days later, the USAF threw me out for nothing other than being gay. I had been training a terrier for narcotics sniffing, and when they couldn't find anyone who wanted to continue using him, they shipped him back to Lackland AFB and they put him to sleep. Killed him. Cost the gummit about $16,000 to get another experienced sniffing team; good use of taxpayer money, no? I would have taken him, but, that's a whole 'nother story.
Anyway, to get back on the subject, I got with my fiance and we talked the situation through. Shortly thereafter, the Salvation Army sent me a letter saying I could not continue to be a member, due to "certain things" they had heard about me. I wasn't real happy about that, but it's their church, they can do what they want, but that was one of the things that got me to question all the religious stuff they had been preaching.
Anyway, to get back on the subject again . . . my fiance and I went our seperate ways, she went through the seminary and became a Salvation Army officer, and after a few years quit and became a minister in the Methodist church somewhere in Maine. Haven't spoken with her in, gee, 20 years or so. But to finally get to the question, no, she didn't reject me, it was just that things were not meant to be. She was lucky I figured out what I did when I did, and so was I, because it would have been terrible for the both of us had I not made my realization until after we'd been married and had a child.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' with it . . .
--Tock

[spywizard]

Wow...... thanks.............

visionary and crazy...........history will only tell......

Just joking....

LE huh???

Grand Forks.. drug and bomb.... all staff dogs.. reassigned ad needed... then OSI for 3 years....

small world... didn't work on your case though.. that was before the "Don't tell don't ask."

if you stated, or were charged with being gay it was a general discharge at that time..

My brother who is gay........... came out to me like this....

conversation:

me:

"So tell me, are you gay"? age 37

him:

"ah ah yea......... " age 36

i laughed... he laughed...

then we talked alot about it..........

I personnally know 2 of the longest living men to still be surviving with AIDS. both live in atlanta Ga.. both close friends with my brother..

I share this because he understands the why of how i feel the way i do... and i understand alot more than most...

It still comes down to..........I need and want to spend time with people i have something in common with... If the most interesting thing about that person is thier sex preference.. then it is kind of a waste of time..

1) I like to think of my condition as "visionary."

2) No, not everyone . . . but some of y'all are real friendly.

3) I've never been rejected by women, oddly enough. Of course, I've never been that interested in 'em in the first place. But before I figured out I'm gay, I had a girlfriend, and she and I were going to get married and go through a Salvation Army seminary together, then spend our lives as Salvation Army officers. I decided to spend 4 years in the USAF so I could go to school with my Veterans benefits, but about 6 months after Basic Training, it slowly dawned on me that I wasn't straight. One year, 10 months, and 5 days later, the USAF threw me out for nothing other than being gay. I had been training a terrier for narcotics sniffing, and when they couldn't find anyone who wanted to continue using him, they shipped him back to Lackland AFB and they put him to sleep. Killed him. Cost the gummit about $16,000 to get another experienced sniffing team; good use of taxpayer money, no? I would have taken him, but, that's a whole 'nother story.
Anyway, to get back on the subject, I got with my fiance and we talked the situation through. Shortly thereafter, the Salvation Army sent me a letter saying I could not continue to be a member, due to "certain things" they had heard about me. I wasn't real happy about that, but it's their church, they can do what they want, but that was one of the things that got me to question all the religious stuff they had been preaching.
Anyway, to get back on the subject again . . . my fiance and I went our seperate ways, she went through the seminary and became a Salvation Army officer, and after a few years quit and became a minister in the Methodist church somewhere in Maine. Haven't spoken with her in, gee, 20 years or so. But to finally get to the question, no, she didn't reject me, it was just that things were not meant to be. She was lucky I figured out what I did when I did, and so was I, because it would have been terrible for the both of us had I not made my realization until after we'd been married and had a child.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' with it . . .
--Tock

[peregrine]

========

Well, I guess when I wrote
"Too bad there isn't an area on the board for gays and lesbians, like the area set aside for the women"
I hadn't really thought the issue through. I am surprised, though, at the intensity of the knee-jerk reaction to my little idle thought . . . It's not like it would take a significant outlay of resources to make it happen (or would it? I don't know for sure).
It doesn't really matter anyway, because the antipathy expressed leads me to beleive that the absent gay folk would be sorely missed. It's a sentiment that warms the cockels of my heart . . .
--Tock

haha the gay guy said "cockels" thats funny...........

[Mach500]

Hahaha, even his heart has a cock.

[RP7]

haha the gay guy said "cockels" thats funny...........

Peregrine you are cracking me up.....

By the way I'm not a homophob, Peregrine is just genetically funny like some people are genetically gay.

[bigbouncinballs]

Population control, not so. Truth is there has been homosexuality since the Greeks and almost definitely before. So does it really run in the genes??? If it did, then those not procreating (bisexual) would not pass it on to thier offspring, consequently homosexuality would be a thing of antiquity. But its not???????????? It continues to be prevalent even when 10% of the population is not consumating a relationship with a member of the opposite sex.