question for americans

[5211969]

Bush sucks azz, c'mon ppl, there is more to this life then the power to go to war, So what Bush went to war, big friggin deal, what else has he done. Just name one thing that doesn't have to do with war or terrorism?

[BOUNCER]

Guys... M'guy is Lebanese, his land presently invaded by Syria and Syria only. They don't have oil, they have nothing and in the 60's and 70's made their money in diamond dealing. When he say's he's a ''freedom fighter'' he means he's a member of Hezbollah, a terrorist organisation. He's a terrorist.

Other than that he's a nice guy, most Lebanese are.

[PurePower]

I hate terrorists.

[tryingtogetbig]

Bush sucks azz, c'mon ppl, there is more to this life then the power to go to war, So what Bush went to war, big friggin deal, what else has he done. Just name one thing that doesn't have to do with war or terrorism?

I had to pay $6000 less in taxes each year since GW came to office....so are you a Bush supporter now? You said name one thing....there you go.

peace,

ttgb

[5211969]

I had to pay $6000 less in taxes each year since GW came to office....so are you a Bush supporter now? You said name one thing....there you go.

peace,

ttgb

Great glad to hear that, but look at our deficit now because of it

[tryingtogetbig]

Great glad to hear that, but look at our deficit now because of it

Typical democrat....you give them what they are asking for and they still aren't happy....

[Mart651]

Great glad to hear that, but look at our deficit now because of it

Screw the deficit. I want to keep my money.

[5211969]

I am neither D or R.. I am probably the only person that is looking out for America as a whole and not trying to be greedy. screw the deficit, lol.. You saved 6000 on taxes but spent half that on the gas prices that were upped, the medical insurance that is going through the roof, when you don't have enough money when you get older to support yourself and there is no SS, then tell me that back in 2004 you saved 6000 and that was a good thing..

[Mart651]

I am neither D or R.. I am probably the only person that is looking out for America as a whole and not trying to be greedy. screw the deficit, lol.. You saved 6000 on taxes but spent half that on the gas prices that were upped, the medical insurance that is going through the roof, when you don't have enough money when you get older to support yourself and there is no SS, then tell me that back in 2004 you saved 6000 and that was a good thing..

6k saved now is like 40k if invested correctly by retirement. maybe we should be responsible for own lifes when we get old.

[saboudian]

I think the one thing thats very interesting is that republicans still think bush is doing well in the war on terrorism, this war on iraq has undermined the war on terror. It has created a whole new generation of anti-americanism in iraq, it has diverted numerous resources away from the actual war on terrorism which there is still no connection between iraq and al-qaeda. Nearly all of the predators were diverted to recon in iraq rather than looking for obl or other al-qaeda members. The team that was looking or obl, got diverted and had to begin looking for saddam. Numerous troops and other resources were also diverted to iraq. In the mean time, while all these resources have been diverted to iraq, al-qaeda has been growing very rapidly, and there are now plenty of people are fully capable of easily replacing obl, a hydra i guess you could call it, and now al-qaeda is much stronger. In the process, the US has pushed away its allies, and its now seen as a US occupation of Iraq, unfortunately this is where we really need the support of the UN and our allies so its not a US occupation, when rumsfeld has to come out and say we're still in control of iraq except for a few uprisings, a year after the war, we're not in control. And the terrible thing is that we can't leave right now even if we wanted to because the new iraqi gvmt would be incredibly unstable, and i hesitate to add that this might be a case where the US gvmt continues to say we just need a few more resources, we just need 10k more troops, we just need 50k more troops, etc, and all these resources continue to get diverted, this is a lil bit reminiscent of vietnam.

The one thing that i still don't understand is why we're there. First it was WMDs, then we wanted to get rid of saddam, then its to create a model for democracy in the mid east. I know for one thing, we're not there because of terrorism.

And the one thing I bet Republicans can't do, is name a single domestic program that was cut because of the Iraq war. In fact, I challenge you to find a single domestic program that was cut because of the Iraq war, and if you're a real citizen, you'll look at the whole list of em.

[saboudian]

One more thing to add, the bush administration has gone back and said they never called Iraq an imminent threat. This war which was illegal in the first place was and still is illegal.

BTW, need I mention all who died in this war? Look at what happened in fallujah, approximately 600 iraqi dead, western reporters have reported most were women and children. They need to stop showing numbers on the news and start showing people.

[Superhuman]

I vote Bush no matter what... Kerry is a douche

[Superhuman]

HOW IS THE WAR ILLEGAL??? You're a dumbass

[Diesel]

Its simple Kerry is anti military

Last time I checked, Kerry served his country while Bush hid behind his families money.

D

[BigBull13]

Bush no matter what!!

[Cycleon]

Last time I checked, Kerry served his country while Bush hid behind his families money.

D

I wont get into what kerry "did" - his method of getting 3 purple hearts is a tad suspect - but he did serve and that is honorable - what he did after was dispicable

and something that happened 35 years ago doesnt really mean he would be much of a military president - one thing is a fact and that is the troops love Bush

[spywizard]

If you pick up a weapon, or hide behind skirts, and strap bombs to children....... you have to expect us to defend ourselves........

Death is death...... only an insane idiot would attack a tank with a stick. ... get the picture.......

One more thing to add, the bush administration has gone back and said they never called Iraq an imminent threat. This war which was illegal in the first place was and still is illegal.

BTW, need I mention all who died in this war? Look at what happened in fallujah, approximately 600 iraqi dead, western reporters have reported most were women and children. They need to stop showing numbers on the news and start showing people.

[ANABOLIX2]

its about our CAUUUUUUUSE understand this we want our lands free from all the invaders

Freedom fighter LOL you spend to much time dreaming about being a freedom fighter to be one..................... your a wanker never mind anything else.

[MilitiaGuy]

i beleive at the end the dediction of the people and freedom fighters in iraq will beat the high-tech usa troops ,my brothers in iraq with little bit of old weapons are doing well beating and confusing the well trained marines,til this moment usa is loosing in iraq.
God bless those mighty fighters!

[inheritmylife]

Even if your "brothers" are wiped off the face of the earth along with every one of their seed, you will still mark it down as a victory. That is what you do.

[TPAK]

Not sure which war you are watching but the US Army rolled over your "BROTHERS" in about a week. So yeah your right...they are kicking but....What a joke! They got up and ran for the hills or begged the Americans to save there lives. What brave brothers you have. Oh thats right. That isn't your type of war. When you and your brothers are confronted head on in a fight your run and cry and hid. The only war you know is to plant bombs and cheer how you hate America while hidding behind a scarf. What brave brothers you all are!!!

[MilitiaGuy]

i am just talking facts go and read some non-cnn news and u will find out i am right
now destroying and burning abrams tank is a game in iraq ,averyday u see 2 ,3 tanks burning

[MilitiaGuy]

oh i forgot the apashi that they took down today!

[TPAK]

So tell me then....how long did it take us to roll into the capital on your news network?

[inheritmylife]

i am just talking facts go and read some non-cnn news and u will find out i am right
now destroying and burning abrams tank is a game in iraq ,averyday u see 2 ,3 tanks burning

Everyday a few Marines and soldiers may be killed, but I assure you Abrams tanks are not charred in the streets.

[OGPackin]

i am just talking facts go and read some non-cnn news and u will find out i am right
now destroying and burning abrams tank is a game in iraq ,averyday u see 2 ,3 tanks burning

M'guy what are u smoking?! Just in the last upraising there have been over 600 insurgents killed and 60 US solders. Id say those are 10/1 odds. I'll take those all day!

Yes shinnies throwing rocks have knocked down a couple Apache heli's, but u sure havent taken out any Abrams Tanks. They have no firepower strong enough to take out an Abrams. Get a life and stop posting half truths and out and out lies.

OG

[MilitiaGuy]

M'guy what are u smoking?! Just in the last upraising there have been over 600 insurgents killed and 60 US solders. Id say those are 10/1 odds. I'll take those all day!

Yes shinnies throwing rocks have knocked down a couple Apache heli's, but u sure havent taken out any Abrams Tanks. They have no firepower strong enough to take out an Abrams. Get a life and stop posting half truths and out and out lies.

OG

[BOUNCER]

Guys I hate to pi$s on your parade, but the news here in Europe have shown a few Abrams burning. One where the RPM penetrated the turret, showing the badly injured crew exiting the tank... And today the Iraqi's brought down a blackhawk and an Apachi.

[inheritmylife]

That's cute, I have one too:

[BOUNCER]

i beleive at the end the dediction of the people and freedom fighters in iraq will beat the high-tech usa troops ,my brothers in iraq with little bit of old weapons are doing well beating and confusing the well trained marines,til this moment usa is loosing in iraq.
God bless those mighty fighters!

I'll say one thing buddy. You have balls posting this stuff daily.

[inheritmylife]

Guys I hate to pi$s on your parade, but the news here in Europe have shown a few Abrams burning. One where the RPM penetrated the turret, showing the badly injured crew exiting the tank... And today the Iraqi's brought down a blackhawk and an Apachi.

He stated everyday 2 or 3.

[OGPackin]

and what does that picture prove? that they are cowards hiding their faces? ohhya i get it now.

OG

[MilitiaGuy]

maybe usa have to buy some merkavas from israel lol

[BOUNCER]

He stated everyday 2 or 3.

Maybe they are!. I mean, some guys here have denied it happening and I've said that European news is showing them every few days. Whats to say that the EU news agencies are not telling the full truth either!. I have to say this, from reading the board here plus other boards I use your getting a VERY watered down version of the news back in the USA.

[50%Natural]

Renecks, hillbillies and people incapable of thinking for themselves will vote for Bush. So I assume it will be a close election as this country is full of imbeciles.

Terrorism is hardly the most important issue Americans are facing. And remember whom was in office when we were attacked in 2001!

Besides, Cheney is our president.

Who is this clown?

[50%Natural]

and what does that picture prove? that they are cowards hiding their faces? ohhya i get it now.

OG

lmfao @ that pic that mguy posted.

Look at all those skinny pussys, hiding behind a gun and hiding their faces. Those people make me laugh...oh so tough, but take that gun outta their hand and you got nothing.

[BOUNCER]

lmfao @ that pic that mguy posted.

Look at all those skinny pussys, hiding behind a gun and hiding their faces. Those people make me laugh...oh so tough, but take that gun outta their hand and you got nothing.

Sorry, I'm going to be the devils advocate for a few moments...

But the Vietnamese and Somalies weren't the biggest guys in the world either.

[50%Natural]

Sorry, I'm going to be the devils advocate for a few moments...

But the Vietnamese and Somalies weren't the biggest guys in the world either.

true, and it is unfortunate that we only engage in conventional warfare

[OGPackin]

Maybe they are!. I mean, some guys here have denied it happening and I've said that European news is showing them every few days. Whats to say that the EU news agencies are not telling the full truth either!. I have to say this, from reading the board here plus other boards I use your getting a VERY watered down version of the news back in the USA.

Im not douting u, but if a T-72 cant take out an Abrams how can it be taken out my 1 - rpg? Id say there was some luck involved.

DEPLETED URANIUM ARMOUR
The M1A1 tank incorporates steel encased depleted uranium armour. Armour bulkheads separate the crew compartment from the fuel tanks. The top panels of the tank are designed to blow outwards in the event of penetration by a HEAT projectile. The tank is protected against nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) warfare.


Although fielded in 1980, the Abrams remained untested for over 10 years. When Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990, there were concerns that the Abrams would fall victim to the sand and long months of continuous operation without the luxury of peacetime maintenance facilities. There were also doubts about the combat survivability of the extensive turret electronics. Immediately following President Bush's decision to commit US forces to the Gulf region in defense of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, American armored units began the difficult process of relocating to the threatened area. Due to the shear size and weight of the Abrams, the C-5 Galaxy, the largest cargo aircraft in the US Air Force inventory, was only able to handle one tank at a time. This meant that nearly all of the Abrams tanks deployed in the Gulf War were shipped by cargo ship. Although slow in coming, the arrival of the Abrams was much welcomed by Allied forces, as it is capable of defeating any tank in the Iraqi inventory.
The Iraqi Army had a considerable array of tanks, mostly purchased from the former Soviet Union. Chief among these were about 500 T-72's. These modern Soviet tanks were armed with an excellent 125mm smoothbore weapon and had many of the same advanced features found on the Abrams. Despite it's advanced design, the T-72 proved to be inferior to the M1A1's deployed during the Gulf War, and compared more closely with the older M60A3 tanks used there by the US Marine Corps. In addition, Iraq had a number of earlier Soviet models: perhaps as many as 1,600 T-62 and about 700 T-54, both of which were developed in the 1960's. These tanks were widely regarded as clearly inferior to the Abrams, but were expected to be highly reliable mechanically. The Gulf War provided military tacticians with an opportunity to evaluate developments in tank design that had not been available since World War II.

In his book "Desert Victory - The War for Kuwait", author Norman Friedman writes that "The U.S. Army in Saudi Arabia probably had about 1,900 M1A1 tanks. Its ability to fire reliably when moving at speed over rough ground (because of the stabilized gun mount) gave it a capability that proved valuable in the Gulf. The Abrams tank also has… vision devices that proved effective not only at night, but also in the dust and smoke of Kuwaiti daytime. On average, an Abrams outranged an Iraqi tank by about 1,000 meters." The actual numbers of Abrams M1 and M1A1 tanks deployed to the Gulf War (according to official DOD sources) are as follows: A total of 1,848 M1A1 and M1A1 "Heavy Armor" (or HA) tanks were deployed between the US Army and Marine Corp (who fielded 16 M1A1's and 60 M1A1(HA) tanks).

[BOUNCER]

OG, just have time for a quick reply. I'm not Cav so I can't claim to be an authority on MBT's. But you might find that the situ with the T-72 -V- Abrams is marksmanship to a larger extent than simply the armour makeup of the MBT.
From the news footage it appeared that the rocket penetrated the rear turret ring, a weak place on any tank. The Israeli's pretty much covered that area with some ball and chain armour. I have some photos of the Merkava in South Lebanon with it, but I'd have to scan them first.