Why NOT to take TEST in every cycle

[TheMindOfRoss]

Due to the compounds used, dosages selected, and duration of cycle, estrogen related problems should not be a problem at all. Keep some Nolva or Arimi on hand, just in case you are extra sensitive. But like I said, there is a MARGINALLY small chance of trouble. If things get strange, use Nolva 20mg ED.

[TheMindOfRoss]

BUMMP THIS to ALL NEWBIES......and all vets willing to try new cycling schemes.

[dirtyvegas]

Yep Yep.....bump Bump Bump...

[forsz]

"Can't we all just get along?" LOL I appreciate all the info being put forth on both sides. The debate will never end...so why can't it b a more friendly debate? Think about it. Is it really important to convince everyone either way? The most imp thing is to find what's best for urself N use it........& MAYBE ( I M dreamin, right?) help convince the public that this demonization of AS is total media BS. N the politicians therefor jump on the bandwagon because they are pandering to the sentiment of an ignorant voting public. ANYWAY.............. I would def appreciate as much ( 1st or 2nd hand experience ) input as possible. I've made my call N I M 2 wks into 400Mg/wk Test cycle ( Very little in Fx so far, good or bad, except heightened libido. My drive usually goes thru high N low cycles on it's own, even tho i've always been natural. . It started up about 2 days B4 cycle. It hasn't gone higher than it's usual high; but it's only now starting to fade; whereas it usually fades after about 1 week. When it's lowest I M OK to perform; but just have to be really turned on. That low usually lasts roughly 5 days. I M SCARED of it getting lower. ). Am i lucky in having no Side Fx; or will they kick in when the Gains kick in??????? I M 42 years old (if that matters). I intend 10-wk cycle with last 2 wks prop only ( while probably starting HCG ). When will my balls shrink ??????? Will my libido drop BEFORE cycle ends??????. If i do good PCT incl HCG and Nolva/Clomid ; what can i expect Re: retention of gains and recovery of sex performance????????. I know everyone is different-- that's why I M trying to get a consensus. Gratitude to any who helps.

[TheMindOfRoss]

"Can't we all just get along?" LOL I appreciate all the info being put forth on both sides. The debate will never end...so why can't it b a more friendly debate? Think about it. Is it really important to convince everyone either way? The most imp thing is to find what's best for urself N use it........& MAYBE ( I M dreamin, right?) help convince the public that this demonization of AS is total media BS. N the politicians therefor jump on the bandwagon because they are pandering to the sentiment of an ignorant voting public. ANYWAY.............. I would def appreciate as much ( 1st or 2nd hand experience ) input as possible. I've made my call N I M 2 wks into 400Mg/wk Test cycle ( Very little in Fx so far, good or bad, except heightened libido. My drive usually goes thru high N low cycles on it's own, even tho i've always been natural. . It started up about 2 days B4 cycle. It hasn't gone higher than it's usual high; but it's only now starting to fade; whereas it usually fades after about 1 week. When it's lowest I M OK to perform; but just have to be really turned on. That low usually lasts roughly 5 days. I M SCARED of it getting lower. ). Am i lucky in having no Side Fx; or will they kick in when the Gains kick in??????? I M 42 years old (if that matters). I intend 10-wk cycle with last 2 wks prop only ( while probably starting HCG). When will my balls shrink ??????? Will my libido drop BEFORE cycle ends??????. If i do good PCT incl HCG and Nolva/Clomid ; what can i expect Re: retention of gains and recovery of sex performance????????. I know everyone is different-- that's why I M trying to get a consensus. Gratitude to any who helps.

Just be patient, and YES, once you start making gains, your chances of sides will increase. Just do you research, all of your questions can be answered by simply searching the forum. I think you are ok, you sound like you know what to do. Just relax and get ready to turn into SUPERMAN!

[swedes]

First of all, I was locked up from the ages of 13-17. I was in an out of juvenile facilities, including in and out-patient drug rehabs, a Wilderness program, and a severe behavioral modification program in Poland Maine. So no, I was not picked on in high school--I was the ringleader and always have been. I still am the motherfvckin ringleader.

As for the questions:

1.) "how were your gains on test as opposed to orals?!"

MY TEST gains WERE GREAT--but shortlived. I believe this was due to several factors, first and foremost being the DRAMATIC effect it had on my endogenous testosterone production. The post cycle crash was always more severe and longer in duration that when I used class 1 androgens like primo. Because ESTROGEN levels were supraphysiologically high (even with the use of an estro supressor) which also triggers a negative feedback mechanism, recovery was mreo difficult than with teh use of NON-AROMATIZING steroids (TREN , OX, Primo) Furthermore, risk of side effects are always high with test--luckily, i got out scratch free several times. Most of my friends and clients have not been so lucky--especially those prone to BALDNESS!

2.) "could it be that you don't like needles? "

I LOVE NEEDLES! Use em with prop, tren, primo.

3.) :are you really saying you keep all your gains on an oral cycle?"

DEPENDING on the drug/drugs used, the dosages used, and duration of cycle length, YES--it is possible to keep ALL nor nearly ALL of your gains.

4.) "did you really gain 40 flippin lbs on an all oral cycle"


NO OF COURSE NOT! THIS IS ALL OF THE MASS I AQUIRED WITHIN THOSE 2 years! More than 5 cycles.

Bro d-ball is harsh on the hair and there is nothing you can take to stop it. Atleast with test you can take fina/avodart

[chris2wire]

i dont think i agree test is bad...

but I will say ive ALWAYS felt low dose test is better than high dose.

IE test prop at 50mg per day is better than 100mg overall, and testE is better at 250-300mg per week rather than like 700mg per week.

The reason is less sides from less test, and less 'fake' gains that will disappear. I believe gains are smaller but actually real and keepable on low test dose.

[TheMindOfRoss]

IS SAFE STEROID USE POSSIBLE?

Some Rules To Follow When You Decide To Break The Rules

******THE UNDERGROUND ANABOLIC REPORT
Feel FREE To Give or Share This Report with Anyone!
You may not, however, claim ownership of it, sell it, or modify it in ANY
way. If you give it away, you give it away without making any changes to it
Opinions on steroid use tend to fall into two distinct categories. You have those
who are vehemently opposed to them, swearing that they're the scourge of
sports then
you have the advocates, the hardcore bodybuilders who will do
everything and anything to build muscle and steroids are at the top of the list.
It's either one way or the other. No yin. No yang.
Neutrality within controversial topics is rare. More rare is the willingness to see
both sides of the picture. If you're dead set against the use of pharmaceutical
enhancement for either moral, ethical, medical or legal reasons, you'll have
plenty of arguments to support your conviction.
Steroids, used irresponsibly, can cause a host of complications. However, many
such "antiroid"
assessments stem from a lack of credible information and far
too many people draw conclusions and cast aspersions on those who wish to
partake based solely on prejudice and ignorance. These are the people who
always know a guy who knew a guy, who had a friend who knew a guy whose
brother worked with somebody who had a neighbour who knew a guy who took
steroids and his head exploded.
The truth is, the potential side effects of steroid use are mostly dose and
duration related. Unfortunately, it's that very fact that prompts some
bodybuilders to consider drug use an almost benign endeavour. No one thinks
they take too much. Everyone believes they have things under control.
Problems only happen to the "other guy."
Simply put, steroids are drugs, and there is no such thing as a completely safe
drug. They certainly don't deserve to be on par with narcotics (although they're
classified as a schedule II drug) yet, they can easily be abused. Attempting to
set a guideline for responsible use of steroids isn't unlike setting boundaries for
responsible alcohol use it's
too ambiguous and open to interpretation. No one
ever wakes up and says; "I'm going to be an alcoholic!" But it happens to
millions of people each year. The same can be said for steroid use.
2
Thousands upon thousands of men and women have sworn; "I want to do just
ONE cycle!" Nice try. But once you've dipped into that bag of tricks, it's difficult
to resist its allure and subsequent cycles are almost sure to follow. The better
the gains, the greater the temptation to push the envelope further. And once
you get used to feeling like Superman, it's tough to go back to being Mr.
Normal. That's when you've got a problem, whether you're willing to admit it or
not.
The only sane approach to steroid use, for those of you who've already decided
to take the plunge, is to use them in a judicious fashion following certain
stipulations. Once again, parameters become blurred by the individual's ability
to rationalize. A tweak here and an alteration there won't make much of a
difference, will it?
Maybe. Maybe not. But only by staying within the boundaries can you be sure
(or as close to it as possible) to avoid contraindications.
If there was a "rule book" of sorts on safe steroid use, it may look something like
the following. It's a check list of protocols that will insure you keep the risk to
benefit ratio leaning in your favour.
1. No one under the age of 21 should use steroids .
Until the age of 21, your body is overflowing with testosterone and
growth hormone . If you can't make progress without drugs when you're
still young, you need to reevaluate
a few things mainly your training and
your supplementation. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to
progress on a consistent basis without drugs. And if you can't, chances
are you won't do much better with drugs. Steroids will also close the
growth plates of long bones so if you haven't reached full height, steroids
may prevent further skeletal development, not to mention, they'll be
shutting down your hormonal system at a time when it's reaching
maturity.
Don't mess with your reproductive system at this point. You're going to
need it in the future.
2. You shouldn't commence steroid use until natural pathways have
been exhausted.
Even if you're over 21, steroids should never be used as a shortcut. In
doing so, you'll be cutting yourself off from ever reaching your full
potential. You don't know what you're capable of until at least 5 years of
training naturally. After that, if you honestly believe you've reached your
genetic peak and cannot make any further progress, then and only then,
should you consider taking steroids.
3
3. A full medical check up, including blood work is essential.
Moderate steroid use, if it were legal, is usually safe for a healthy adult.
Still, there's no telling how someone will react to any foreign substance.
Check with a doctor to make sure you aren't taking any unnecessary
risks. Most bodybuilders forgo this process because finding a physician
who is open minded in the usage of anabolics may be hard to come by.
Steroids can place a strain on the vital organs and if you have any
underlying problems, they may be exasperated. A second blood test
following the cycle would also be a good idea to see how well you
reacted to the drugs.
4. All cycles should be no longer than 4 weeks in length.
This goes against conventional thinking but it makes perfect sense. The
greatest gains come when the receptors are fresh. Why not make the
most of this precious "window of opportunity?"
Then get out and get clean. Naturally, gains won't be massive due to the
abbreviated cycle length, but remember, smaller gains are much easier
to maintain. It doesn't matter if you put on 30 pounds if you lose 20 of
them. (In fact, if you put on that much, chances are you'll lose the last 10
as well because you'll be in such a catabolic state once you come off and
"crash.") But a gain of 67
pounds in three weeks that,
the body can
handle. Also, the shorter the cycle, the quicker the endocrine system can
normalize.
5. Dosages should be kept to an absolute minimum.
There are certain selfproclaimed
steroid gurus who are advocating
megadoses
of steroids going with the assumption that; "If you're going
to suppress your natural testosterone anyway, you might as well take as
much as possible." That line of thinking may sound logical, but all you
have to do is take a look at some of the champions from the 60's and
early 70's to prove it wrong. Men like Larry Scott, Don Howorth, Sergio
Oliva, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, Frank Zane and many, many more
made outstanding gains using just a couple of Dianabol a day! And they
accomplished it without the hideous side effects such as impotence,
bloated bellies, and swollen nipples which are so prevalent among
today's professional bodybuilders. That's because they knew how to train
and how to eat. They didn't just let the drugs do everything. There's a
valuable lesson to be learned there.
4
6. Avoid substances that pose the biggest risk.
This may appear to be a "nobrainer,"
but you'd be surprised how often
this rule is broken. The reasoning is usually due to the fact that only
certain drugs may be available. That doesn't make it okay! Anadrol ,
Halotestin , Parabolan , and most testosterones are but a few that can
cause irreparable damage. Although a milligram of steroid is a milligram
of steroid in terms of the way it affects muscle cell, certain drugs have a
lower risk to benefit ratio. But even steroids that are considered mild can
have negative side effects. DecaDurabolin
has long been a popular
choice among bodybuilders, mostly because it's a powerful anabolic with
few androgenic side effect, yet new evidence suggests that Deca will still
suppress the HPTA (hypothalamicpituitarytesticularaxis
) as much, if
not more, than straight testosterone. It also produces progesterogenic
effects making it a culprit in the development of "bitch tits."
(Gynecomastia ).
Winstrol and Anavar are potent oral steroids with a favorable profile
which makes them superior to more harsh orals like Dianabol. (Although
Dianabol is known to have the biggest bang for the buck). But as is the
case with all orals, they can raise LDL (bad) cholesterol and lower HDL
(good cholesterol) levels. Since the pill dosage of both Winstrol and
Anavar is so low, up to 30 tablets a day are required, placing a strain on
your liver as well as your bank account.
The one steroid considered by many as the "most safe" would be
Primobolan Depot. It's as close to a perfect steroid as possible in that it
retains nitrogen extremely well (allowing for more muscle growth via the
ingestion of protein) with virtually no endogenous suppression of
testosterone. (If cycles are kept short). The drawback of Primobolan is
that it won't produce "spectacular" gains. It's also expensive. This
encourages many bodybuilders to eschew Primo and go with something
like Testosterone Cypionate which is cheap and will cause dramatic size
spurts in a relatively short time. Unfortunately, as with most testosterone
esters, the gains are lost shortly after cessation of use. The muscle from
Primobolan tends to be more solid, and should be maintained once the
cycle is terminated. (Note* This may be due to the very fact that it's so
weak.)
There's also an oral version of Primobolan (Acetate) which is not liver
toxic, the reason being it isn't 17alphaalkylated.
The alkylated process
is what prevents the liver from breaking it down, thus placing it under
additional stress. The down side of a non17alphaalkylated
oral steroid
is, the drug remains in your system for only a few hours necessitating
several doses throughout the day. Primobolan tablets once came in
50mgs, which meant four a day were all that were required for an
effective dose. Most Primo tabs manufactured today come in only 5 mgs!
This makes it ideal for women but completely impractical for men. Forty
pills a day at a dollar per pill is simply out of most bodybuilders' budgets.
5
7. Once gains cannot be made with 1000mgs a week, it's time to stop for
good.
Each time you do a cycle, the body will develop more of a tolerance until
it requires higher and higher dosages to induce gains. If you get to the
point where a total of 1000mgs a week isn't producing noticeable gains,
it's time to call it quits. That means, let it go entirely. Accept the fact that
you've obtained far more muscle than you could have naturally and cut
yourself off. If you try to continue beyond this point with ever increasing
dosages, you may never make it back to a normal lifestyle. You may be
bound for a life of dependency.
Steroid use is a personal decision, one that should not be condemned or
condoned. Anyone who makes a conscious choice to use drugs must
understand the risks and accept responsibility for the repercussions.
Although such an individual isn't a threat to society and shouldn't be
treated as such, the lawmakers see it differently and that's a stark reality
that must be taken under consideration. Since anabolic use is illegal in
North America, the danger of dealing with a black market becomes a
significant factor. Counterfeits, bootlegs and veterinarian products are
often passed as genuine pharmaceutical grade merchandise. Some
products contain no active ingredients at all. Some may actually be
contaminated. Anyway you slice it, you're taking a chance. You can't be
too careful.

[Luke_Skywalker]

That was an interesting read....but dude..your pinkies are gonna be sore tomorrow from hitting that SHIFT key. Give it a rest. Please.

You make some interesting points ross, but personally, you haven't convinced me. I've read literally thousands of posts from seasoned vets that have had more than satisfactory results with Test. My money is on them.

And burn that fourth pic dude.

[TheMindOfRoss]

I am not the AUTHOR by the way....I hope EVERYONE reads that! SHould be a STICKY!

[TheMindOfRoss]

The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement
Article by Bransholme (MuscleTalk Member)

This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences.

Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids . Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids .

Liver Toxicity of Dianabol
The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out.

Benefits of Dianabol Use
Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol.

A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance.

One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'.

How to Cycle Dianabol
To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone or stacked with other steroids.

Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen ) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day.

Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone , it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some.

Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems. A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best:


6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total
10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total

So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle.

Summary
This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable.

This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains.

References:

Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG.
An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN.
Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu.
Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O.
Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT.
Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV

[perfectbeast2001]

I have done oral only as first cycle and it was crap. My diet was good and my routine was fine but i just puffed up like a balloon and lost all gains. The only time i use orals now is as a kick start for the TEST!

[Luke_Skywalker]

I am not the AUTHOR by the way....I hope EVERYONE reads that! SHould be a STICKY!

I gathered that you weren't the author...not only did it not contain an incestuous amount of caps, it was also objective an non condecending.

[AnabolicAlien]

BullSh1T!!!



A.A.

[Deezuhl]

Your shoulders and traps can use some work.

[Swifto]

BullSh1T!!!



A.A.

[AnabolicAlien]

[Powrlftr]

TREN is INDEED more supressive than test--it binds more effectively to the A-R, and it is more Androgenic. HOWEVER, due to its short half-life, it has the capacity to be run for very short periods of time....2 weeks..that would be a Kickstart to a possible 4 weeker (or 6 weeker) with test prop, or even VAR.

The short half-life you are referring to is the acetate of tren . You state earlier that test is MUCH more suppressive than var and here you are suggesting that you stack test with tren which you admit is even more suppressive than tren. I don't know why you would want to use such a suppressive compound to jumpstart another suppressive compound(test prop) that is normally used for jumpstarting cycles or for cutting. What if I want to bulk up, this short cycle you have provided will do nothing but make me cut and vascular. Why not just use d-bol like you said earlier, it seems like you are backpedalling in an effort to accomodate the very views that you came to this board to refute.

From my understanding, it doesn't take test very long to completely shut you down. If you stack it with another, much more suppressive, hormone then you have really gained nothing over the types of cycles advocated on this site, since you claimed your cycles were much milder and unsuppressive thereby allowing for a more permanent gain of lean muscle mass.

[Powrlftr]

Your dick may WORK ON CYCLE...but IT DOES NOT WORK OFF CYCLE......TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSES ENDOEGENOUS TEST MORE THAN ANY OTHER COMPOUND EXCEPT TRENBOLONE AND NANDROLONE .

While I MAY have some minor erection issues while ON CYCLE(like a higher dose Primo cycle)...but i can GARUNTEE MY RECOVERY will be 3 times as fast as yours--your TEST, DECCA cycle...lol..

I've never had any erection probs with test cycles on or off, I don't know why you keep claiming that everyone who uses test will have virility issues when they are done.

[Luke_Skywalker]

Now that is totally cool.

[MatrixGuy]

How you do that?!! Thats some funny sh**!! :roflmao:

[RA]

I've never had any erection probs with test cycles on or off, I don't know why you keep claiming that everyone who uses test will have virility issues when they are done.

Agree. This is why we have pct.

[Mesomorphyl]

Your shoulders and traps can use some work.

This is true but in all fairness, even though I do hate him and his bitch dirtyvegas, his chest is a nice plate and his arms look nice but they are no more than 16.5" not 19"... and I believe his bf is almost correct so he does look shreaded, I bet them legs are skinny. I refuse to believe he weighs 210lbs but more like 185 and ripped(still a good job, but still a liar).

So mindofross, I am glad to see you say in here TEST IS KING. But, you have not answered how you can OBTAIN a degree IN that AMOUNT of TIME. Or who THE ELITE and PRO's you SEEMINGLY consult WITH. Please think about BLOCKING out your FACE, not just so WE do not HAVE to SEE it, but because ANYONE could use this AGAINST you if LEGAL issues ever happened.

EDIT: Your public profile says you are 175 pounds and have done var only cycles.

[Powrlftr]

LISTEN...MOST of the methods that I have experimented with are fromdocumentations of EARLY STEROID USE ..ie 1960's-80's.....THIS IS NOT NEW INFORMATION..."TEST IS BEST" is new...and it is GROSSLY ABUSED IN AMERICA. TEST IS CRACK. I am threatening people's RATIONALE for USING THEIR CRACK! It is THIS simple.

I am presenting views that have proven VALID in Europe and in early America. Do some research on Methandrostenelone.

I think you've made an erroneous supposition here, they used to use arsenic to cure syphilus in the early 1900's and mercury before that. Does the earlier treatments for syphilus somehow make them inherently better than than the "new" treatment, penicillin? Did it occur to you that they had less knowledge about the use of steroids in the '60s than they do today. I have an idea; let's go back to using mercury for the treatment of syphilus, since it's older it MUST be better.

[UK CHRIS]

Has everyone else missed this or am i the only one who thinks he looks like the goofy Jewish guy from the American Pie movies,

[FrkyBgStok]

when was this "study" published??? it was published right?

[dirtyvegas]

This is true but in all fairness, even though I do hate him and his bitch dirtyvegas, his chest is a nice plate and his arms look nice but they are no more than 16.5" not 19"... and I believe his bf is almost correct so he does look shreaded, I bet them legs are skinny. I refuse to believe he weighs 210lbs but more like 185 and ripped(still a good job, but still a liar).

So mindofross, I am glad to see you say in here TEST IS KING. But, you have not answered how you can OBTAIN a degree IN that AMOUNT of TIME. Or who THE ELITE and PRO's you SEEMINGLY consult WITH. Please think about BLOCKING out your FACE, not just so WE do not HAVE to SEE it, but because ANYONE could use this AGAINST you if LEGAL issues ever happened.

EDIT: Your public profile says you are 175 pounds and have done var only cycles.

BITCH...? THE ONLY BITCH HERE IS YOU..FAKE ASS MESOMORPHAL.....MORE LIKE FAKE ASS 50 CENT THATS ACTS TUFF....AND FLAMS DUDES EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW YOUR WRONG....SHOW US YOUR ****IN PHD HARVARD BOY WHERE THE fU*CK DO YOU GET OFF GIVIN ADVICE BUT CANNOT ACCEPT ANY?.....HARD HEADED FAG.....SHOW US YOUR POTENTIAL, POST YOUR PIC INSTEAD OF SOME DUMB ASS 50 CENT PIC..WANNA BE.!! HE SHOWED PICS WHEN EVERYONE SAID HE WAS A LIAR....NOW HE PROVED HIMSELF THERE YOU HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER REASON TO **** WITH SOMEONE....YOU JUST KEEP GOIN AND DONT STOP.....POST YOUR PIC....MESO..I BET ITS A LAUGH

[desperado7]

BUMMP THIS to ALL NEWBIES......and all vets willing to try new cycling schemes.

good thread all over! I agree with most of your research and your points are strong! but there are a lot of guys who cant live without a hard dick not even for 6 weeks! keep the research comming!
I personally like short cycles of 6 weeks or less!
prop for 75 to 100 md ed
tren 75md ed
dbol 30mg first 3 weeks
20 mg weeks 4th and 5th
10 mg last week
this is my current cycle and after this I only nees 3 to 4 weeks of PCT to recover! but I think I am going to try the Dbol as supplement fo 10 tp 15 mg ed for 8 to 10 weeks after this cycle!

[dirtyvegas]

Bump Bump Bump

[Mesomorphyl]

BITCH...?

That is right... you are his BITCH.

[speak]

Are you Bobcat Goldwaith? I can't get his voice out of my mind when I read your posts. The yelling everyother sentence or word- you're killing me.

[fighteveryone]

i have run test with every cycle in the past and i will run test with every cycle in the future.

that's my input.

[desperado7]

BITCH...? THE ONLY BITCH HERE IS YOU..FAKE ASS MESOMORPHAL.....MORE LIKE FAKE ASS 50 CENT THATS ACTS TUFF....AND FLAMS DUDES EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW YOUR WRONG....SHOW US YOUR ****IN PHD HARVARD BOY WHERE THE fU*CK DO YOU GET OFF GIVIN ADVICE BUT CANNOT ACCEPT ANY?.....HARD HEADED FAG.....SHOW US YOUR POTENTIAL, POST YOUR PIC INSTEAD OF SOME DUMB ASS 50 CENT PIC..WANNA BE.!! HE SHOWED PICS WHEN EVERYONE SAID HE WAS A LIAR....NOW HE PROVED HIMSELF THERE YOU HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER REASON TO **** WITH SOMEONE....YOU JUST KEEP GOIN AND DONT STOP.....POST YOUR PIC....MESO..I BET ITS A LAUGH

Excellent response for meso! I couldn't have give it better!

[dirtyvegas]

That is right... you are his BITCH.

...

I THOUGHT SOOO..I KNEW YOU WERE FAKE FAKE ASS 5O CNT GOT OWNED BY VEGAS.. ... ....

[Mesomorphyl]

Excellent response for meso! I couldn't have give it better!

You are right... You couldnt have reponded better as you are unintelligent, uneducated, a follower, haven't any common sense... but hey follow the 175-185 lbs. guy who after 6 cycles and probably hasn't the education he speaks of... follow him and be disappointed. Your name shouldn't be desperado it should be desperate for friends... it shows.

[Mesomorphyl]

...

I THOUGHT SOOO..I KNEW YOU WERE FAKE FAKE ASS 5O CNT GOT OWNED BY VEGAS.. ... ....

LOL, yeah you got me... go ahead and do your var only as you are too chicken shiit to inject... and you want to cover your cowardice with this guy that you will now have your face clearly buried into his ass forever. Go ahead and you both can have skinny legs 16" arms but one thing... you will be cutt.

[RA]

Has everyone else missed this or am i the only one who thinks he looks like the goofy Jewish guy from the American Pie movies,

lmao.

[MrMondodondo]

This is the MOST stupid crap I have seen/read in over 20 years in the Iron game.

Amazing so much stupidity around AAS. No wonder the feds are on it.

Bunch a crap in this thread. Train hard, try all the cycles, stop showing us your pictures that are inappropriate and get real.


STOOGE!

[desperado7]

You are right... You couldnt have reponded better as you are unintelligent, uneducated, a follower, haven't any common sense... but hey follow the 175-185 lbs. guy who after 6 cycles and probably hasn't the education he speaks of... follow him and be disappointed. Your name shouldn't be desperado it should be desperate for friends... it shows.

huuu! it hurt!

[Kale]

Biggest load of crap I have read in a long time. If you want to believe somebody with a profile like this (which he posted) then go ahead !!!!!

Birthday:
January 14, 1984
Location:
FL
Height:
5'10
Weight:
175
Body Fat %:
6%
Training Experience:
6 Yrs
Cycle Experience:
VAR ONLY
Bodybuilding Competitions:
None