Ok, time to clear the air on AAS use for those under 25

[seriousmass]

I think the main point to this thread is to get the young guys to open up their eyes and understand that while you can take steroids for a long portion of your life and walk away perfectly fine..... there is DEFINATELY a risk of putting exogenous hormones into your body. If you're going to start young..... you better know how to use steroids and not abuse them.

Well said.

[Reed]

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

I am with you on this one.

Though I really truly feel people should attempt to get as far as they can naturally, like a respectable weight and lifts then cycle. This is my opinion however. I try to subscribe to the hard work ethic old school training.

So i believe it depends on a persons goals in life at a young age, do they want to be a true athlete (bodybuilding, powerlifting, football, baseball) or are they just trying to look at the beach and at the club?

Arnold, Shawn Ray, Lee Priest, all started at a young age and I can not down their decisions as look at the greatness they achieved, did they make the right decision, seems they did.

Being at a young age I think one can base their decision around where they are at in their development as a bodybuilder before they cycle. Who wants to be a weakling and on cycle ya know. I'd be embarrassed personally, ha

[acl1036]

Im gunna go ahead and agree with seriousmass and devldog, I am young, almost 20, and ive been on here a lot lately reading, learning, and understanding the risks and consequences, trying to make a decision whether to use or not use

[seriousmass]

Im gunna go ahead and agree with seriousmass and devldog, I am young, almost 20, and ive been on here a lot lately reading, learning, and understanding the risks and consequences, trying to make a decision whether to use or not use

keep reading. research, research, research. I can't emphasize this enough bro.

[Dukkit]

all I can say is.... how the f*ck did you get 54, 000+ posts

thats insane! lol

oh... and the thread is a debate about when to use AAS (when too young, etc).

i have 54,000+ posts?

huh, i never noticed.

[Schmidty]

i was suppose to be on trt when i was 17 before i even started using aas so i say **** it im doin it, that was why i let myself use when i started at 19 anyways. life sucks when im off cycle i i def know how to PCT. im at the point no where im really thinking about actually starting the TRT cause iv got HEP-C n my fiances diabetic so we arnt haven kids anyways

[Schmidty]

btw im almost 22

[ajweb]

hey omna...who is the dude is ur avatar..freaking stacked

Couldnt agree more,better to wait. I was 16 when I did my first cycle and did another right after,no pct. Messed up my head for a long time.

[DEVLDOG]

i was suppose to be on trt when i was 17 before i even started using aas so i say **** it im doin it, that was why i let myself use when i started at 19 anyways. life sucks when im off cycle i i def know how to PCT. im at the point no where im really thinking about actually starting the TRT cause iv got HEP-C n my fiances diabetic so we arnt haven kids anyways

like I said earlier,certain people are pre disposed and there is nothing that will change that.thank you for posting this.

I ran a 17month insulin cycle and posted it all on here,this was about 4 yrs ago,everyone swore id be a diabetic for life,they swore it because this person read this that person read that.I dont believe anything i read,Im my own guinee pig.

guess what

Im not a diabetic and my blood sugar has been fine since the last day I used that worthless fk'n sh!t...I dont recommend it to anyone.its useless for size.why did I run it so long you might wonder....answer,because I had it,its that simple,ran it with everything from igf to 5 grams a week of test tren ,dbol ,you name it. have used it

now someone is sure to say I will be diabetic later in life,just hasnt caught up to me..ha

I could go on for days about high dose cycle and for extended periods of times and how you can get your natural hormone levels back to normal in 4 weeks if you wanted to,but as always theres people that want to believe what the uninformed read and spread on websites like this and i just dont have the patience anymore for it.

everyone can believe what they want to believe at the end of the day but unless you know things for a fact then as far as im concerned,its just good reading material and its all fiction.I have done this long enough and been around alot of BB'ers,some who competed in the Olympia,I know what the truth is and im telling you dont believe everything you read

Im done with this thread,any questions,send me a pm Ill be more then happy to help the ones who truely want it.

goodluck to the rest of yous

[Reed]

^^^ Always a pleasure to read your material Devldog.

[Juice Authority]

I think the main point to this thread is to get the young guys to open up their eyes and understand that while you can take steroids for a long portion of your life and walk away perfectly fine..... there is DEFINATELY a risk of putting exogenous hormones into your body. If you're going to start young..... you better know how to use steroids and not abuse them.

That was the sole purpose of this thread. If you ask 'most' people in their mid to late 30s that started cycling at an early age 'most' will tell you that knowing what they know now they would have waited. Hindsight is always 20/20 but unfortuately 'most' people have to learn through their own experience.

[Mooseman33]

i started young, age 18, when i was 220. i got a free ride for football so hit a test p cycle the summer i had to report...worked like a charm while on....
then came some problems, cause i believe no PCT, lost libido, went shit crazy...
had no knowledge except how to eat and train properly, nothing with chems.

the internet is huge for research now for everyone who wants to use, i wish it was like this then..people can be much more safe today then in the past.
the reason i say for kids to wait is i want them to do things right. to many kids today have no basic clue how to even train, let alone manipulate there hormones.
the actions of today will paid for in the future...

[Hazard]

The last thing i'd like to say is when I tell someone I think they should wait..... get their diet right..... and learn their body..... i'm not telling them to do so because I don't want another "BIG" guy walking this earth. What each person does is of relatively no concern to me. I give advice based on my beliefs and experiences..... if one chooses to take it or disregard it..... thats solely on them. If someone wants to run a cycle at 18 years old - who am I to tell them no? It's their choice..... I just tell them what i believe would be best for them based on what i know now.

And just to touch on how much aas to use or what compounds and how long to use them..... I believe each person figures out what works for them over time. You can't tell someone 500mg's test a week is better than 1000mg's test a week and vice versa..... everyone reacts differently to different compounds. My stance is..... if you've found that higher doses work better for you through your research..... all the power to you. Same goes for the guy who finds that he gets the same results from a moderate dose "cycle" as compared to a high dosed one.

As long as you know your body..... how you respond..... and how to recover your hpta..... run what works for you.

~Haz~

[marcus300]

the body is more resilient then most think,for all the people out there juicing or who have juiced,the % in actual "horror" cases is low,there millions of ppl juicing in this world and once every 10yrs some ex footbal player or wrestler dies its blamed on steroid use and then the media jumps all over it and has ppl believing that one anadrol will kill your liver...what a joke!!.im more scared of killing my liver taking tylenol then with steroids

goodluck to you

I agree there are many horror stories about people juicing and it killing them but whats that got to do with what we are discussing?

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

I dont think you know me at all, ive written many articles on high dose/burst cycles, infact i am from the Borreson days of high busrt cycles, check out my thread.

I am not into advicing newbies to cycle at such a young age because of what ive seen first hand,written and many many threads on the internet, it isnt worth debating because its plain to see, enjoy your keg buddy!

[marcus300]

I am with you on this one.

Though I really truly feel people should attempt to get as far as they can naturally, like a respectable weight and lifts then cycle. This is my opinion however. I try to subscribe to the hard work ethic old school training.

So i believe it depends on a persons goals in life at a young age, do they want to be a true athlete (bodybuilding, powerlifting, football, baseball) or are they just trying to look at the beach and at the club?

Arnold, Shawn Ray, Lee Priest, all started at a young age and I can not down their decisions as look at the greatness they achieved, did they make the right decision, seems they did.

Being at a young age I think one can base their decision around where they are at in their development as a bodybuilder before they cycle. Who wants to be a weakling and on cycle ya know. I'd be embarrassed personally, ha

Have you any idea what the % is of being in the top ten BB's are? these guys had genetics what are outstanding and only need to look at an apple to grow. Also the guys you mentioned are on HRT now for life because of starting so young, like i said it can go on and on but the risk is there and its high, your decision!

[Critical Mass]

hey omna...who is the dude is ur avatar..freaking stacked

Jay Cutler 15 days out from Mr.O. 2008 I think.

[Immortal Soldier]

First of all, you grew up in a completely different time-period. The internet wasn't even invented probably when you began cycling. The newfound spread of info has allowed for people to at least get SOLID information on how to run a proper cycle, while doing the least amount of damage to their HPTA / bodies.

So explain to us why, since you are from the "internet age" and you came to this board with all this information that we fed you yet you still ran back to back cycles.

So that goes to show you even those who support the notion (You) that waiting till 25 is too much, cannot even cycle properly. Kind of ironic is it not? That you talk all this big talk about how there is so information and sites like this that will help people cycle properly and limit any damage to the HPTA, yet using you as a case example shows thats not true.

Now see there are two types of steroid users on this board:

There are the ones who have done 5+ cycles and are barely over 200lbs

Then there are the ones who have done 2-3 cycles and have MAXIMIZED their potential.

Hell in my first cycle I blew away most people who are on their 3rd or 4th even 5th cycle. And alot of these people weren't old or anything, they are 21 or 22-23 and they have ran that many cycles.

[Juice Authority]

like I said earlier,certain people are pre disposed and there is nothing that will change that.thank you for posting this.

I ran a 17month insulin cycle and posted it all on here,this was about 4 yrs ago,everyone swore id be a diabetic for life,they swore it because this person read this that person read that.I dont believe anything i read,Im my own guinee pig.

guess what

Im not a diabetic and my blood sugar has been fine since the last day I used that worthless fk'n sh!t...I dont recommend it to anyone.its useless for size.why did I run it so long you might wonder....answer,because I had it,its that simple,ran it with everything from igf to 5 grams a week of test tren ,dbol ,you name it. have used it

now someone is sure to say I will be diabetic later in life,just hasnt caught up to me..ha

I could go on for days about high dose cycle and for extended periods of times and how you can get your natural hormone levels back to normal in 4 weeks if you wanted to,but as always theres people that want to believe what the uninformed read and spread on websites like this and i just dont have the patience anymore for it.

everyone can believe what they want to believe at the end of the day but unless you know things for a fact then as far as im concerned,its just good reading material and its all fiction.I have done this long enough and been around alot of BB'ers,some who competed in the Olympia,I know what the truth is and im telling you dont believe everything you read

Im done with this thread,any questions,send me a pm Ill be more then happy to help the ones who truely want it.

goodluck to the rest of yous

Running slin for 17 months won't necessarily make you a diabetic BUT running it that long can cause pancreatic shutdown. I think I'd rather be a diabetic than have pancreatic shutdown. Your quote in bolds is a personalized statement that you are recklessly generalizing and applying to anyone. It is simply NOT TRUE. The odds of getting normalized hormone levels in 4 weeks after running an extended high dose cycle are stacked heavily against you and its utter BS too.

[seriousmass]

So explain to us why, since you are from the "internet age" and you came to this board with all this information that we fed you yet you still ran back to back cycles.

So that goes to show you even those who support the notion (You) that waiting till 25 is too much, cannot even cycle properly. Kind of ironic is it not? That you talk all this big talk about how there is so information and sites like this that will help people cycle properly and limit any damage to the HPTA, yet using you as a case example shows thats not true.

Now see there are two types of steroid users on this board:

There are the ones who have done 5+ cycles and are barely over 200lbs

Then there are the ones who have done 2-3 cycles and have MAXIMIZED their potential.

Hell in my first cycle I blew away most people who are on their 3rd or 4th even 5th cycle. And alot of these people weren't old or anything, they are 21 or 22-23 and they have ran that many cycles.

See this is where I can't stand you. You always have to come in and spit out your utter bullsh*t. I mean honestly, who are you to talk? lol. You cruise and blast, so please don't attempt to lecture me about the "healthiest" method for your body.

We were having a debate. You obviously didn't even read the entire thread. Just trying to kick up drama, as usual.

BTW, what I did was NOT particularly terrible. I cycled, finished PCT, and then cycled again. But hey, I also had 6 blood-tests done in that time period. Oh, and P.S. got my test levels checked, and they are completely back to normal range currently; not to mention, my growth plates have not fused closed as of yet. So honestly, I wouldn't go lecturing me from a medical standpoint, because I've got the BW results / X-rays to prove that I'm fine. But you on the other hand... not so much bro.

Peace.

[marcus300]

Running slin for 17 months won't necessarily make you a diabetic BUT running it that long can cause pancreatic shutdown. I think I'd rather be a diabetic than have pancreatic shutdown. Your quote in bolds is a personalized statement that you are recklessly generalizing and applying to anyone. It is simply NOT TRUE. The odds of getting normalized hormone levels in 4 weeks after running an extended high dose cycle are stacked heavily against you and its utter BS too.

I see you picked up on that aswell, kind of puts everything else he said in the same context for me, well said

[Immortal Soldier]

Im gunna go ahead and agree with seriousmass and devldog, I am young, almost 20, and ive been on here a lot lately reading, learning, and understanding the risks and consequences, trying to make a decision whether to use or not use

The blind following the blind is what this thread is about, the ones who started young support it and the ones who want to start young support them.

I guess I am against that consensus, I started young (21) and I believe I should have waited.

The main principle here is the younger you are the more careless and reckless you are going to be when it comes to steroids and not give it the respect it deserves. When people are young they tend to make harsh rash decisions without really giving a fvck about the consequences, Devldog, Schimidty, and even Seriousmass are proofs of that.

So case in point, health concerns set aside, the younger you are the more likely you are to abuse. I would know as I have fought addiction before in volumes.

[seriousmass]

The main principle here is the younger you are the more careless and reckless you are going to be when it comes to steroids and not give it the respect it deserves. When people are young they tend to make harsh rash decisions without really giving a fvck about the consequences, Devldog, Schimidty, and even Seriousmass are proofs of that.

WTF. where's your name on that list?

I think it's straight hilarious, how all this "great," unbiased info coming from immortal is coming from a 21 year old, who has admitted to NEEDING to go to rehab next year for steroid ADDICTION.

IMO, that's not much of a "credible" source.

[Immortal Soldier]

See this is where I can't stand you. You always have to come in and spit out your utter bullsh*t. I mean honestly, who are you to talk? lol. You cruise and blast, so please don't attempt to lecture me about the "healthiest" method for your body.

We were having a debate. You obviously didn't even read the entire thread. Just trying to kick up drama, as usual.

BTW, what I did was NOT particularly terrible. I cycled, finished PCT, and then cycled again. But hey, I also had 6 blood-tests done in that time period. Oh, and P.S. got my test levels checked, and they are completely back to normal range currently; not to mention, my growth plates have not fused closed as of yet. So honestly, I wouldn't go lecturing me from a medical standpoint, because I've got the BW results / X-rays to prove that I'm fine. But you on the other hand... not so much bro.

Peace.

Obviously you missed the point as I am sure it went over your head. The whole "debate" you had, I read don't worry about that part a bunch of abusers trying to convince others its ok. It's just that you, as a spokesman for the "internet age" say how someone can "cycle properly" with all the information available to them (such as sites like this), but you are a walking/talking irony with what you done. Obviously, you don't understand steroids and its effects if you think back to back cycles are not "that bad". But its ok man cling to your bloodtests and X-ray results (LOL) because I am sure you will be following in my footsteps with the way you are carrying yourself now.

I don't care when someone starts cycling, if someone thinks that being 6'2 168lbs and 20 years old is the right time to go and cycle then so be it. It's your body, all I can give is advice that maybe people should consider since I have been there. See the mind is a beautiful thing, from psychological standpoint it tries to justify the decisions it made, and that is whats going on in this thread. Those who started young are trying to justify why its alright, in hopes of vindication and easing their conscience. The problem here is what applies to you doesn't apply to the general public and its when those who feel the need to justified themselves in inadvertently give way for others to follow their footsteps. The Blind leading the Blind.

[Immortal Soldier]

WTF. where's your name on that list?

I think it's straight hilarious, how all this "great," unbiased info coming from immortal is coming from a 21 year old, who has admitted to NEEDING to go to rehab next year for steroid ADDICTION.

IMO, that's not much of a "credible" source.

I think you must have the reading comprehension of a duck on crack since you conveniently decided to not quote this right after what you copy and pasted. I don't think it's ever occurred to you that I speak against using at young age because of what I went through and currently am going through. My cruising and blasting is my problem that you use to discredit me, but let me tell you this my research on steroid compounds and steroid use in general is unparalleled with my age. So while you continue to give advice on compounds you have never even touched, my research and otherwise subsequent knowledge in those who have allow me to give that advice. Hence why me and you are never on speaking terms, you don't realize your mistakes.

So case in point, health concerns set aside, the younger you are the more likely you are to abuse. I would know as I have fought addiction before in volumes.

[seriousmass]

Obviously you missed the point as I am sure it went over your head. The whole "debate" you had, I read don't worry about that part a bunch of abusers trying to convince others its ok. It's just that you, as a spokesman for the "internet age" say how someone can "cycle properly" with all the information available to them (such as sites like this), but you are a walking/talking irony with what you done. Obviously, you don't understand steroids and its effects if you think back to back cycles are not "that bad". But its ok man cling to your bloodtests and X-ray results (LOL) because I am sure you will be following in my footsteps with the way you are carrying yourself now.

I don't care when someone starts cycling, if someone thinks that being 6'2 168lbs and 20 years old is the right time to go and cycle then so be it. It's your body, all I can give is advice that maybe people should consider since I have been there. See the mind is a beautiful thing, from psychological standpoint it tries to justify the decisions it made, and that is whats going on in this thread. Those who started young are trying to justify why its alright, in hopes of vindication and easing their conscience. The problem here is what applies to you doesn't apply to the general public and its when those who feel the need to justified themselves in inadvertently give way for others to follow their footsteps. The Blind leading the Blind.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Psychoanalyzing a kid with a social-psych degree.

Too funny.

[seriousmass]

I think you must have the reading comprehension of a duck on crack since you conveniently decided to not quote this right after what you copy and pasted. I don't think it's ever occurred to you that I speak against using at young age because of what I went through and currently am going through. My cruising and blasting is my problem that you use to discredit me, but let me tell you this my research on steroid compounds and steroid use in general is unparalleled with my age. So while you continue to give advice on compounds you have never even touched, my research and otherwise subsequent knowledge in those who have allow me to give that advice. Hence why me and you are never on speaking terms, you don't realize your mistakes.

love how you always add stuff to your posts after the fact.

gotta love the edit button hey.

k well i guess we will have to agree to disagree. because this is going no where as usual

[Immortal Soldier]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Psychoanalyzing a kid with a social-psych degree.

Too funny.

*sigh*

Actually I wasn't psychoanalyzing you because to psychoanalyze someone you would need to know more about them besides what a few posts on a internet forum. Once again the point I tried to make went over your head since you thought I was personally trying to "get into your mind", when reality I was speaking about the whole stance of those in this thread who were pro-use below 25 and how many try to justify their actions for using. The mind will also try to justify the decisions it makes as the right one and will bring up facts to support it regardless if it subconsciously leaves ones that would tarnish its position aside.

This thread is turning into a problem that is between you and me and since I don't want to derail this thread if you wish to discuss this matter further I suggest you PM me.

[Immortal Soldier]

love how you always add stuff to your posts after the fact.

gotta love the edit button hey.

k well i guess we will have to agree to disagree. because this is going no where as usual

After the fact? I made the post at 3:13 and finished editing it at 3:17 you didn't respond to a full three minutes later at 3:20 so how is that "after the fact"?

Everything I wrote after the edit starting at "I don't think it's ever occurred to you" was to clarify my stance TOWARDS YOU AND ONLY YOU. So if it makes you feel better you can disregard everything from that part and I still beat your argument (you know the one where I don't acknowledge my own 'addiction') and wait for a counter-argument that will never come because you are a troll who points out minute discrepancies in posts proven by your last few posts in this "debate".

[DEVLDOG]

Running slin for 17 months won't necessarily make you a diabetic BUT running it that long can cause pancreatic shutdown. I think I'd rather be a diabetic than have pancreatic shutdown. Your quote in bolds is a personalized statement that you are recklessly generalizing and applying to anyone. It is simply NOT TRUE. The odds of getting normalized hormone levels in 4 weeks after running an extended high dose cycle are stacked heavily against you and its utter BS too.

The only thing on here that is "utter BS" is you trying to preach something you obviously dont have a clue about. your opinions are just that,your opinions,you may not like what I say but when you talk about "been there,done that" trust me I have been there and done that beyond what you or 95% of people on this board are willing to chance.

Again,believe what you want to believe and suffer the consquences for your ignorance,as simple as that

[fb4life]

I agree with Immortal in all he's said but one.

I, myself, started way too young. I'm still young to be doing it but I'm not going to say that it was a good idea. All the talk about how we are better off than other people because we have the internet is bulls***. I started too young because I did have the internet. Searched around for a few weeks, saw what people were suggesting, and did it. I'm still paying the price for that one. I haven't done a cycle in 1.5 years because i'm still trying to increase my knowledge. The guys that tell us young folk that we are wrong are the ones that know what they are talking about. Don't bash them because what you've read on the internet supports what you are doing. Let them help you out. And as far as back to back cycles...with all that internet knowledge you have access to this day and age... you should know better.

[seriousmass]

The only thing on here that is "utter BS" is you trying to preach something you obviously dont have a clue about. your opinions are just that,your opinions,you may not like what I say but when you talk about "been there,done that" trust me I have been there and done that beyond what you or 95% of people on this board are willing to chance.

Again,believe what you want to believe and suffer the consquences for your ignorance,as simple as that

Trust me, don't start this war with Juice Authority. Or else this thread will be locked immediately.

Debates always get outta control. Save it for PM.

[DEVLDOG]

I agree there are many horror stories about people juicing and it killing them but whats that got to do with what we are discussing?


I dont think you know me at all, ive written many articles on high dose/burst cycles, infact i am from the Borreson days of high busrt cycles, check out my thread.

I am not into advicing newbies to cycle at such a young age because of what ive seen first hand,written and many many threads on the internet, it isnt worth debating because its plain to see, enjoy your keg buddy!

because you write "articles " on steroid boards doesnt make you an authority on anything,thats no difference then some skinny chemist doing research in a liabrary and reposting written information!! have you ever used yourself to get the "facts" thats what Im talking about,"real life experiences" no re cycled information adlibed into your own version,that means nothing to anybody but the uninformed

"short burst cycles" not even interested in that and definately not what i was referring to,and would never suggest that to anyone,a waste IMHO of gear and $$.

Ill enjoy that keg buddy,you keep reading internet propoganda and spreading it around with your "articles",when you want the truth,you just come ask,its really not rocket science and isnt as complex as some try and make it out to be.

[c-Z]

Lol this is very interesting... loving the huge debate guys. Keep it up....

[DEVLDOG]

Trust me, don't start this war with Juice Authority. Or else this thread will be locked immediately.

Debates always get outta control. Save it for PM.

haha,I dont care brother,this thread is worthless and should be locked anyway with some of the nonsense being spread,this is why I rarely come to this board anymore,too much wrong, bad,useless info being spread by people who think they know something but only know what they read on the internet.

do yourself a favor and just because someone has 10000 posts and is a vet or whatever,dont assume they are any smarter then you

I dont need this board for info,Im here to share it and help guys not make the same mistakes i did along the way.thats it

goodluck

[c-Z]

Trust me, don't start this war with Juice Authority. Or else this thread will be locked immediately.

Debates always get outta control. Save it for PM.

They usually get locked because a flame war begins and comments of his wife are brought up...

[Matt]

haha,I dont care brother,this thread is worthless and should be locked anyway with some of the nonsense being spread,this is why I rarely come to this board anymore,too much wrong, bad,useless info being spread by people who think they know something but only know what they read on the internet.

do yourself a favor and just because someone has 10000 posts and is a vet or whatever,dont assume they are any smarter then you

I dont need this board for info,Im here to share it and help guys not make the same mistakes i did along the way.thats it

goodluck

Trust me after reading some of your responses im sure alot of us would be happy not to see you here again.

Take a holiday and maybe educate yourself a little son....

[marcus300]

because you write "articles " on steroid boards doesnt make you an authority on anything,thats no difference then some skinny chemist doing research in a liabrary and reposting written information!! have you ever used yourself to get the "facts" thats what Im talking about,"real life experiences" no re cycled information adlibed into your own version,that means nothing to anybody but the uninformed

"short burst cycles" not even interested in that and definately not what i was referring to,and would never suggest that to anyone,a waste IMHO of gear and $$.

Ill enjoy that keg buddy,you keep reading internet propoganda and spreading it around with your "articles",when you want the truth,you just come ask,its really not rocket science and isnt as complex as some try and make it out to be.

Come on what are you on about with this bull. Ive got over 20 odd years of personal experience, again you know nothing about me, ive ran very long cycle at high dose and various other protocols and i found what worked for me, which was short burst cycles, i write about my experiences and the clients ive had over the years, i do read studies but with every study comes another saying something completely different, real life experiences count for alot and if you knew me you would understand that's what i am about.

Some of your claims are total bull in my opinion but again that's just an opinion, i would say staying on for 4 years with no intention of turning pro is stupid, also running slin for so long, i would say your advice is very dangerous to to this newbie board but again everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's whats sop good about these boards, but to get back on topic i wouldn't advice any young guy to start cycling when his own hormonal system hasn't fully developed

[Reed]

Have you any idea what the % is of being in the top ten BB's are? these guys had genetics what are outstanding and only need to look at an apple to grow. Also the guys you mentioned are on HRT now for life because of starting so young, like i said it can go on and on but the risk is there and its high, your decision!

I know that its extremely extremely small and you're right but they didn't get to the top heap without taking the risk.

And I know we all wanna say that just look at things to grow but its simply not true they all worked extremely hard to achieve what they did its just their genetics allowed them to make it that far while others can do the same and never get there.

Hell my personal opinion is why do you people cycle if they aren't competitive athletes in the first place? Why take the risk at all?

[DEVLDOG]

Come on what are you on about with this bull. Ive got over 20 odd years of personal experience, again you know nothing about me, ive ran very long cycle at high dose and various other protocols and i found what worked for me, which was short burst cycles, i write about my experiences and the clients ive had over the years, i do read studies but with every study comes another saying something completely different, real life experiences count for alot and if you knew me you would understand that's what i am about.

Some of your claims are total bull in my opinion but again that's just an opinion, i would say staying on for 4 years with no intention of turning pro is stupid, also running slin for so long, i would say your advice is very dangerous to to this newbie board but again everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's whats sop good about these boards, but to get back on topic i wouldn't advice any young guy to start cycling when his own hormonal system hasn't fully developed

we can agree to disagree then, your 20 yrs experience and my 22yrs experience adds up to alot of experience. I know what I used to do and I know what works for me and what works for alot of people I have trained with over the yrs.I am not in no way reccomending anybody do what I did and do.I never said that.I am giving nothing but the truth as there are too many people on here that lie and tell stories and mis lead the uninformed.

believe what you want about me but most of my trials and errors are documented right here on the board over the last 5 yrs,just search my name and slin and Igf.

running the slin for 17months may have been reckless but there was no other way for me to determine what effects it really had.
i ran it with high doses,low doses,with igf and ran it by itself. all that takes times, 17 months later I cn honestly tell everyone it is worthless,,theres other ways to stimulate nutrient uptake if thats what ppl are after with it, otherwise I have documented and determined it was good for a 5lb gain in mass and nothing more,can get that from taking creatine and not haveing to worry about going hypo for 2 hrs after wards. I suffered no after effects and may have possible helped other who thought of using it because they believed like I did before using it that it was this miricle compound,the missing piece.....so say what you want man,Im fine with what I have used. I spent alot of $$, wasted alot of $$ if I knew 22yrs ago what i know now,i would have saved a ton of time and $$


again,we will agree to disagree and I'll leave it at that

[Juice Authority]

The only thing on here that is "utter BS" is you trying to preach something you obviously dont have a clue about. your opinions are just that,your opinions,you may not like what I say but when you talk about "been there,done that" trust me I have been there and done that beyond what you or 95% of people on this board are willing to chance.

Again,believe what you want to believe and suffer the consquences for your ignorance,as simple as that

You’re entitled to your own baseless opinion. I wasn't preaching either. If you go re-read what I initially posted you'll find that I was sharing my experience, not preaching. You, on the other hand, are disseminating factually incorrect and reckless information that can actually cause harm if followed. If you want to be your own guinea pig that's fine but don't try to argue pharmacological facts with me or encourage others to be their own guinea pigs.