Ok, time to clear the air on AAS use for those under 25

[c-Z]

Lets play nice guys....... honestly isn't worth it.... You learn from experience...... Everyone is different... Some people liek to try different things to see it's affects.

[Twist]

this thread went to shit

[fb4life]

^^^yup

[DEVLDOG]

You’re entitled to your own baseless opinion. I wasn't preaching either. If you go re-read what I initially posted you'll find that I was sharing my experience, not preaching. You, on the other hand, are disseminating factually incorrect and reckless information that can actually cause harm if followed. If you want to be your own guinea pig that's fine but don't try to argue pharmacological facts with me or encourage others to be their own guinea pigs.

post your picture brother,we will see if you know what you speak of,mine is in my avitar
6'1" 292 34" waist,.....

thats my resume

[DEVLDOG]

this thread went to shit

and your post helped alot

[Twist]

post your picture brother,we will see if you know what you speak of,mine is in my avitar
6'1" 292 34" waist,.....

thats my resume

I am not one to speak but... your avy kinda makes you look fat. sorry I don't mean to offend but if you had a pic like marcus I would understand this comment. maybe a new avy is in order...

[Matt]

I am not one to speak but... your avy kinda makes you look fat. sorry I don't mean to offend but if you had a pic like marcus I would understand this comment. maybe a new avy is in order...

Lol you do know that isnt marcus???

[Juice Authority]

post your picture brother,we will see if you know what you speak of,mine is in my avitar
6'1" 292 34" waist,.....

thats my resume

My pics are in the members pics forum. No need to post them here. The last thing I want to be is 292 and fat.

Guess my BF% - just got it checked

Here are my stats:

5'10" 202, 30" waist (more like 28) and 6.3% BF. I'm at my goal. My interests are more than just perma-bulking. I like other functional activities and trust me, my look is much more appealing to the opposite sex AND I can bend over and touch my nose to my knees too.

[DEVLDOG]

I am not one to speak but... your avy kinda makes you look fat. sorry I don't mean to offend but if you had a pic like marcus I would understand this comment. maybe a new avy is in order...

his avatar is marcus ruhl you idiot,thats not him...again

[Reed]

his avatar is marcus ruhl you idiot,thats not him...again

you mean dorian yates

[Immortal Soldier]

post your picture brother,we will see if you know what you speak of,mine is in my avitar
6'1" 292 34" waist,.....

thats my resume

Not to get into this argument, but what does that prove my friend? If comparing body types is an indication of true knowledge than I guess only a handful of people in the world should have ever speak about steroids in an informational way. He wasn't calling you out and saying you don't know what you are talking about completely, he said don't preach advice on being your own guinea pig, since ignorant newbies will hurt themselves unlike veterans who have the luxury of doing "experiments" to see what works.

I agree with you on that alot of what we learned is from the people who have come before us experimenting with steroids in different ways, but actively preaching it in a thread which will most surely garner newbies attention is a bad choice.

[DEVLDOG]

My pics are in the members pics forum. No need to post them here. The last thing I want to be is 292.

Guess my BF% - just got it checked

Here are my stats:

5'10" 202, 30" waist (more like 28) and 6.3% BF. I'm at my goal. My interests are more than just perma-bulking. I like other functional activities and trust me, my look is much more appealing to the opposite sex AND I can bend over and touch my nose to my knees too.

I wont lie,you look good.I on the other hand prefer the size and strength, but I can touch my nose to my knee,I just did it to prove to myself....ha

[Matt]

you mean dorian yates

Correct, that back can only belong to dorian..

[Immortal Soldier]

his avatar is marcus ruhl you idiot,thats not him...again

LOL That's Dorian

[DEVLDOG]

you mean dorian yates

hahaha,yeah,your right,I just re looked at it,even better!!!!

thanks for pointing that out and making me look like a dick...ha..j/k

[UncleD]

well its takes big doses to get big results, and some die or get hurt along the way thats called "shi t happens" your rolling the dice on everything you do in life, whats worse running 2 grams of test a week for a year or drinking 20 beers a nite like some do everyday?? who knows.. u can pop 1 pill and die, or take 100 and live so nothing is ever in stone like i said "shi t happens"

[Twist]

I know it is not him I am just saying if your avy looked like his or omnas (cutler) or reeds
(good job reed) I would understand

[Reed]

I think this is kind of like how people that don't know anything about steroids preach to us that have done or do do steroids. We are people just like anyone else should be free to do as we please to our own bodies as they are not someone else's possession and if we mess up well that was our own fault just like drinking, smoking, or doing anything else like breaking my neck rock climbing, football etc. There are risks in anything and everything we do

We all have our opinions, we all have our different goals, and we all our reasons of why we do things.

And the others are right, it is beginning to turn into a pissing match instead of a helpful thread.

[Reed]

I know it is not him I am just saying if your avy looked like his or omnas (cutler) or reeds
(good job reed) I would understand

Thanks just changed it again as to be even more of an ass

No but really just finishing up on my contest prep, next Sat is the big day and then one more the following week and buffets better make way cause I'm coming!!!!!!!

[Juice Authority]

I wont lie,you look good.I on the other hand prefer the size and strength, but I can touch my nose to my knee,I just did it to prove to myself....ha

But can you do it with your legs straight? Anyway, I can respect that. There was a time when size and strength was my sole focus too. I abused AAS, ran high dose extended cycles and was basically semi-shutdown for 3yrs with virtually no sex drive. My T-levels were just slightly above HRT status. It was a long sedentary 3yrs and this was the result:

[Twist]

Thanks just changed it again as to be even more of an ass

No but really just finishing up on my contest prep, next Sat is the big day and then one more the following week and buffets better make way cause I'm coming!!!!!!!

I follow your posts closely.

[strength_addict14]

I am not one to speak but... your avy kinda makes you look fat. sorry I don't mean to offend but if you had a pic like marcus I would understand this comment. maybe a new avy is in order...

Not to offend in your words... Devil looks big and strong you look lean and weak. Pick you poison. That was bs.

[Twist]

that's why I said "I am not one to speak"

Big and strong but so does my best friend and he is all natural.
I am not trying to insult him, I am saying he should put up a new pic because that one does not show his potential.

[strength_addict14]

that's why I said "I am not one to speak"

Big and strong but so does my best friend and he is all natural.
I am not trying to insult him, I am saying he should put up a new pic because that one does not show his potential.

And your pic does show potential? You got it cutie pie.

[Twist]

I am saying that mine does not. how do you not understand that. "I AM NOT ONE TO TALK"
You don't get that?

[strength_addict14]

Ok fine, haha. Im just saying that .... well the hell with it. That cat looks like he could press your nearest of kin at the same time, doesn't look fat to me. For the record don't know the guy in the slightest, lol.

[Hazard]

wow..... c'mon guys.... leave well enough alone. Everyone is here to improve themselves..... no one started out looking friggin awesome. Crticizing the way someone looks without them asking is uncalled for and not needed.

~Haz~

[strength_addict14]

wow..... c'mon guys.... leave well enough alone. Everyone is here to improve themselves..... no one started out looking friggin awesome. Crticizing the way someone looks without them asking is uncalled for and not needed.

~Haz~

Well, your dog looks great.

[Schmidty]

So explain to us why, since you are from the "internet age" and you came to this board with all this information that we fed you yet you still ran back to back cycles.

So that goes to show you even those who support the notion (You) that waiting till 25 is too much, cannot even cycle properly. Kind of ironic is it not? That you talk all this big talk about how there is so information and sites like this that will help people cycle properly and limit any damage to the HPTA, yet using you as a case example shows thats not true.

Now see there are two types of steroid users on this board:

There are the ones who have done 5+ cycles and are barely over 200lbs

Then there are the ones who have done 2-3 cycles and have MAXIMIZED their potential.

Hell in my first cycle I blew away most people who are on their 3rd or 4th even 5th cycle. And alot of these people weren't old or anything, they are 21 or 22-23 and they have ran that many cycles.

lol hey hey hey now 200lbs for my short frame is alot u asshole lol and iv done idk 3or4 good cycles and 3 or 4 little 4wkrs back when i first starteded.

[DEVLDOG]

But can you do it with your legs straight? Anyway, I can respect that. There was a time when size and strength was my sole focus too. I abused AAS, ran high dose extended cycles and was basically semi-shutdown for 3yrs with virtually no sex drive. My T-levels were just slightly above HRT status. It was a long sedentary 3yrs and this was the result:

Oh,you ment with my legs straight

keep doing what your doing,its working for you....amazing transformation!

[Hazard]

Well, your dog looks great.

LOL thanks.....

Wasn't calling you out specifically btw..... just saying to everyone

~Haz~

[strength_addict14]

LOL thanks.....

Wasn't calling you out specifically btw..... just saying to everyone

~Haz~

Brindle pits are beautiful, on that note so are jokes. Luck would have it we are not short on either on this board.

[Immortal Soldier]

lol hey hey hey now 200lbs for my short frame is alot u asshole lol and iv done idk 3or4 good cycles and 3 or 4 little 4wkrs back when i first starteded.

Haha I wasn't specifically talking about you Schmidty, how tall are you anyway? I always assumed you were 5'10 or something

[DEVLDOG]

Not to get into this argument, but what does that prove my friend? If comparing body types is an indication of true knowledge than I guess only a handful of people in the world should have ever speak about steroids in an informational way. He wasn't calling you out and saying you don't know what you are talking about completely, he said don't preach advice on being your own guinea pig, since ignorant newbies will hurt themselves unlike veterans who have the luxury of doing "experiments" to see what works.

I agree with you on that alot of what we learned is from the people who have come before us experimenting with steroids in different ways, but actively preaching it in a thread which will most surely garner newbies attention is a bad choice.

you need to go re-read what I said. I never suggested nor would I ever that a newbie be his own guinea pig.


I said I have used myself as a Guinea pig and that was only because I got tired of the same old same old...I knew there was more.I have friends who competed in top level competitions including the olympia,I know what the real dosages are,trust me,it isnt what you read in Muscular developement.most would need a mortgage to even afford it.

but I wasnt neither could afford that type of gear nor would I use that amount,ppl think I have used high dosages over the yrs,up to 5grams a week.....not even close...trust me.

and it what probably after 15yrs of training and 10 yrs of cycleing I went to that dosage,I put my time in and it was my decision as is the decision of everyone who gets involved in this game,you have to live with the consiquences if there are any.

[strength_addict14]

Oh,you ment with my legs straight

keep doing what your doing,its working for you....amazing transformation!

I agree, JA has one of the best transformations I have seen on any board anywhere.

[Juice Authority]

Oh,you ment with my legs straight

keep doing what your doing,its working for you....amazing transformation!

Thanks Bro and I respect your experience. You know your body better than anyone. This thread was really meant for general masses. When I first stated using AAS I didn't have a clue about what I was doing and from what I can tell most newbies posting here don't either.

These younger guys don't bother to research and learn more about the chemical compounds they put in bodies even with the plethora of information available online, which wasn't the case when I first started.

With all the negative publicity in the media they are even more encouraged to use AAS. When I was a teenager and even through my early 20s if you told me not to do something I would do the exact opposite. I never stopped and asked myself, “how is this going to affect me later on”?

[gymnerd]

But can you do it with your legs straight? Anyway, I can respect that. There was a time when size and strength was my sole focus too. I abused AAS, ran high dose extended cycles and was basically semi-shutdown for 3yrs with virtually no sex drive. My T-levels were just slightly above HRT status. It was a long sedentary 3yrs and this was the result:

Are you on hrt now? Did you do anything to get your test goin again?

[Juice Authority]

Are you on hrt now? Did you do anything to get your test goin again?

I ran a few different PCT protocols during that timeframe and got my T-levels back to the low end of normal. Free test (the one that counts) remains slightly below normal and total test ranges between 350-500. In another couple of years I'll be HRT/TRT for life according to my endo, which was the point of this thread. That wouldn't have been the case if I did things the right way.

[nilrac]

In my honest opinion.... if your 18 years old..... 170lbs..... 6'0" - you have NO BUSINESS touching steroids . If someone like that was anywhere near ready for steroids they'd be over 200lbs. All this tells me is that they don't have all their ducks in a row..... the diet is off..... their training split could be off..... they don't know their body yet. This is where things go wrong.....
~Haz~

Firstly, I appreciate the response. Secondly, I agree that an individual should maximise their training naturally before even contemplating gear. And then they should do alot of research into the subject.

The only other point I'd make though, is this idea that everybody has to be atleast 200Lbs naturally before they should touch gear. That seems to be the general rule of thumb on this forum, however, alot of people are just never going to attain that kind of lean weight, naturally.

Although I am a firm believer of lifestyle affecting who we become mentally and physically, and diet being a huge part of that, we can't avoid the fact that genetics also do contribute to the end result.

So to say that somebody HAS to be 200Lbs, low bf % NATURAL, before touching gear, to me, seems unrealistic and maybe even a little silly. It depends on the individual, hell even their basic height! And I highly doubt that the majority of users on this forum had a lean, natural base of 200Lbs before deciding to juice. Most people probably decide to juice because they are nowhere near 200Lbs natty...

So my point, I guess... if you are 5ft 10', 185Lbs, great natural base with low BF%... then by the rule of thumb on this forum, you are not ready to take gear, just because of your overall poundage. I don't agree. I do agree though, that age is a very important aspect of deciding when to take steroids, as is general health (BF% etc, how long you've trained, etc etc etc). 18 years to me, is too young. 25... much more acceptable.

Just my two. Peace.

[Matt]

Firstly, I appreciate the response. Secondly, I agree that an individual should maximise their training naturally before even contemplating gear. And then they should do alot of research into the subject.

The only other point I'd make though, is this idea that everybody has to be atleast 200Lbs naturally before they should touch gear. That seems to be the general rule of thumb on this forum, however, alot of people are just never going to attain that kind of lean weight, naturally.

Although I am a firm believer of lifestyle affecting who we become mentally and physically, and diet being a huge part of that, we can't avoid the fact that genetics also do contribute to the end result.

So to say that somebody HAS to be 200Lbs, low bf % NATURAL, before touching gear, to me, seems unrealistic and maybe even a little silly. It depends on the individual, hell even their basic height! And I highly doubt that the majority of users on this forum had a lean, natural base of 200Lbs before deciding to juice. Most people probably decide to juice because they are nowhere near 200Lbs natty...

So my point, I guess... if you are 5ft 10', 185Lbs, great natural base with low BF%... then by the rule of thumb on this forum, you are not ready to take gear, just because of your overall poundage. I don't agree. I do agree though, that age is a very important aspect of deciding when to take steroids , as is general health (BF% etc, how long you've trained, etc etc etc). 18 years to me, is too young. 25... much more acceptable.

Just my two. Peace.

Very well stated, however ive not seen many people on here being told that they must be 200lbs low bf before they should cycle.

I have seen the thread that Big uses alot and im sure the title is "If your 5'10 and under 160lbs then your diet sucks", I agree to some degree with this statement.

Time and time again ive seen people ask for a first cycle plan and when asked for stats they reply, 5'10, 6' ect with a body weight of 145lbs, they claim to be on a great diet but when their diet is posted its horrible.
Their eating between 2000 and 2500 cals a day.

I think the problem is that alot of people want to use steroids as an alternative to eating correctly, (the lazy option). Again imo it comes back to the age thing, most of these guy's that see steroids as an alternative tend to be between the ages of 17/22....