Atomini's all-you-need-to-know about TREN and how to use it effectively thread!

[Atomini]

Kind of a broad question but if using Test E and Tren A together, would you have to wait until the forth week of Test use before starting the Tren due to the difference in esters?

Nope, you can start both of them right off the bat. It's just an issue of convenience and timing your shots. Test E and Tren E just go well together because you can load them into the same syringe and just shoot at the same time on the same schedule. It's not as easy when you're running an E and an A.

[mledwards81]

I am on my third cycle of test cyp and will be starting tren e shortly. Is there any problem with starting a super small amount to test drive for problems? You mentioned first timers starting at 250mg ew 2 100mg of test. Just curious on how I am to layer tren e into my cycle. Thanks! Awesome post and great info.

[Atomini]

What is this 'super small amount' you speak of?

You're not the first person to come to me inquiring about this 'testing the waters' procedure. A lot of people do it, and I think its because you and everyone who wants to do this is just very scared of Trenbolone from all of the things you've read. A perfect beginners dose is Tren Ace at 300-400mg weekly. Done. If you use 300mg/week and find the sides to be really REALLY bad and untolerable, then you can easily stop, and with the Acetate ester it will be out of your system in a matter of days. Usually though, people won't have extreme sides at 300mg weekly. So I don't think you have too much to worry about.

[mledwards81]

Thanks for the quick response. Fear is not the issue, I was merely seeing if there was any validity in increasing the dosage slowly to ascertain a stoping point for controlling any side effects. No worries. I will go ahead and start with 250mg ew and will keep this updated about my experience if that is cool. I am going to go ahead and try the tren e and just deal with whatever comes my way. On an aside I also have some prim that I am willing to try either with test or as a layered stack with prim, tren and test. I read that list you posted about your dlist of aas and thought I would just ask to see if you have any experience with the combination. Or also would it just be a better idea to try prim before cycling tren?

[Atomini]

Thanks for the quick response. Fear is not the issue, I was merely seeing if there was any validity in increasing the dosage slowly to ascertain a stoping point for controlling any side effects. No worries. I will go ahead and start with 250mg ew and will keep this updated about my experience if that is cool. I am going to go ahead and try the tren e and just deal with whatever comes my way. On an aside I also have some prim that I am willing to try either with test or as a layered stack with prim, tren and test. I read that list you posted about your dlist of aas and thought I would just ask to see if you have any experience with the combination. Or also would it just be a better idea to try prim before cycling tren?

I've never tried that combination, but i've done very similar cycles that come close to it (Test/Tren /Anavar and Test/Tren/Turinabol ). Depends what your Primo dosage is going to be. My Test/Tren/Anavar cycle was 100mg/200mg/700mg weekly, and Test/Tren/Turinabol was 400mg/400mg/490mg weekly. If your Primo dose is too low, the Trenbolone tends to dwarf it due to its sheer strength.

[Glennk93]

Oops, I didn't realize that you meant first-time Tren user as opposed to first time ever AAS user. In this case, I agree 100% that is the perfect Trenbolone beginner cycle!

Hey Atomini,

I know you probably don't suggest me doing tren on my first AAS cycle but I've been lifting for a long time now and decided to run my first cycle and i'm pretty set on running tren ace and test e. Ive done plenty of research on my part as well. I would like for you to critique this first tren cycle.

Week 1-8 Test-E 100mg 2x/week or Test prop since I'm running tren ace?
Week 1-8 Tren Ace 100mg EOD

Week 1-8 aromasin .25mg ED if needed
Week 1-8 Prami .5-1mg/day from day 1
Nolvadex - 14 days after last injection for test e, 3 days for test prop
40mg first 2 weeks
20mg last 2 weeks

Thanks.

[Atomini]

Looks like a solid cycle to me. Just a reminder that starting PCT 3 days after Testosterone Propionate has been terminated is inadequate. You should wait at least 6 days seeing as though Propionate 's half life is 48 hours (2 days) and by the 3rd day, there is still a significant amount of the hormone still in your system. I don't know where people are getting these 'PCT should begin 3 days afterwards for Prop' ideas.

[Glennk93]

Looks like a solid cycle to me. Just a reminder that starting PCT 3 days after Testosterone Propionate has been terminated is inadequate. You should wait at least 6 days seeing as though Propionate's half life is 48 hours (2 days) and by the 3rd day, there is still a significant amount of the hormone still in your system. I don't know where people are getting these 'PCT should begin 3 days afterwards for Prop' ideas.

Alright thanks alot ! You think I should take test-e or test prop ?

[Atomini]

Prop is the more common choice with Tren Ace because it makes dosing convenient, you can inject them together, etc. but you can also use Enanthate , it is just less convenient. I personally prefer Prop.

[Glennk93]

Prop is the more common choice with Tren Ace because it makes dosing convenient, you can inject them together, etc. but you can also use Enanthate, it is just less convenient. I personally prefer Prop.

Thanks brotha

[balzay]

When running tren e instead of tren a would you start the caber at the beginning of your cycle or wait a couple of weeks due to the ester of the tren?

[Atomini]

Start it right away.

Think about it, would you start an AI 2 weeks into a cycle where you're using Testosterone Enanthate just because of the longer ester? That's a really bad idea, because as soon as the body detects supraphysiological levels of aromatizable anabolic steroids in the body, it begins to aromatize it. Be safe instead of sorry.

[Glennk93]

Prop is the more common choice with Tren Ace because it makes dosing convenient, you can inject them together, etc. but you can also use Enanthate, it is just less convenient. I personally prefer Prop.

Also how should i dose the Test Prop?

[Atomini]

That is up to you. I can't spoonfeed you that kind of information. That's the ideea of the Trenbolone post I made, with guidelines of using Testosterone at TRT doses while on cycle, or it is up to you if you want to use trditional doses of 400+mg per week.

[RyanGreg]

1 - Never start any cycle without having everything you need in your possession. Sure, you can go ahead and start while something is on its way but you'll look like an idiot if something happens within the first week (or if your item's arrival is delayed in the mail for whatever reason, and now you've started your cycle and start to lactate from Prolactin - you're screwed). It is common sense to wait to have everything before you start, and there are many horror stories you can easily find on this forum of people too impatient to wait before ALL of their ancillaries arrive.

2. Yes, it is actually the preferred protocol to increase your AI dose rather than start a new AI if you get gyno symptoms. Aromasin is a pretty strong AI, so increasing to a full 25mg ED dose if gyno symptoms appear is a good way to control estrogen in order to take care of the gyno.

Ok thanks for the reply.

A question about competing should I stop test 2 weeks before the show but continue using tren only right up until I compete? I heard this is common to do.......? then straight into PCT.... or should i stop both test and tren before the comp or should i stay on both of them right up until day of comp...?

[Atomini]

Ok thanks for the reply.

A question about competing should I stop test 2 weeks before the show but continue using tren only right up until I compete? I heard this is common to do.......? then straight into PCT.... or should i stop both test and tren before the comp or should i stay on both of them right up until day of comp...?

I've never heard of this practice of stopping the Test while continuing Tren , it doesn't sound like a good idea. You should ideally remain on both right into the competition, as both compounds (the Tren especially) should bring out hardness and vascularity. You will want to totally eliminate Estrogen by the time the competition comes around though, so have an AI ready to do that. The last thing you want is Test bloating you up on the day of the competition. The practice of dropping the Test and continuing the Tren in the midst of competition is probably an old outdated practice before Aromatase Inhibitors were widely used (due to the bloating issue).

[Wes201]

Awsome post! Asome thread! Although i never posted anything about it, i was one of those guys who wondered about and was also a bit scared or tren even though i didnt really have any solid knowledge on it, only the rumors that i heard. You ansered all of my questions. Massive/incredible amount of information. Thanks for taking the time to write that up. That was a lot of work you put in to that.

[mojo999]

Awsome post! Asome thread! Although i never posted anything about it, i was one of those guys who wondered about and was also a bit scared or tren even though i didnt really have any solid knowledge on it, only the rumors that i heard. You ansered all of my questions. Massive/incredible amount of information. Thanks for taking the time to write that up. That was a lot of work you put in to that.

I know what you mean. Been a regular follower. If there's a 2012 Dave Duchaine Man-of-the-year award it should go to Atomini! Seriously!

[zacheryah]

Excellent, great feedback and I am very pleased to hear your positive results!

In response to your anorgasmia issue, if you can't get a hold of Pramipexole or Cabergoline in your country, you can try vitamin B6. Look back through this thread or do a search function in this thread and you'll find the dosing guidelines for vitamin B6 to control prolactin and the studies conducted with it. I believe 600mg per day (split into two separate doses). The only issue with B6 is that excessive doses for prolonged periods can cause nerve damage and other problems in the body, this is why B6 for prolactin is not always my first advice for people. It's usually no big concern when using it at this dose for Prolactin control, but it is something everyone should be aware of.

Thanks alot for the vitamin B6 advice !

I had my package on tueday evening.

Been taking 600mg/day in 3 diffrent doses
-200mg in the morning
-200mg when i get home from collegue
-200mg right before i go to sleep

As of this wednesday evening, I can confirm the anorgasmia issue is entirely gone. I didnt quite xpect it to work so fast tbh.

Should i keep on doing 600mg/day untill the end of the cycle, or lay it off for now, and restart the B6 when the problem reoccurs ?

thanks again !

[Atomini]

Thanks alot for the vitamin B6 advice !

I had my package on tueday evening.

Been taking 600mg/day in 3 diffrent doses
-200mg in the morning
-200mg when i get home from collegue
-200mg right before i go to sleep

As of this wednesday evening, I can confirm the anorgasmia issue is entirely gone. I didnt quite xpect it to work so fast tbh.

Should i keep on doing 600mg/day untill the end of the cycle, or lay it off for now, and restart the B6 when the problem reoccurs ?

thanks again !

That is some incredible feedback on how fast B6 works to reduce Hyperprolactinemia, thanks for sharing that with us. What I would suggest now is that you keep taking B6, but simply reduce the dose. I don't believe B6 in high doses for extended periods of time is a good thing for the body, so consider your 600mg/day to be the initial 'shock' dose that reduces your high Prolactin levels. After that, try only consuming maybe 200mg daily of B6.

[RyanGreg]

few more questions.....

1) Thoughts on running deca with tren ?

2) highest tren dose you would recommend?

3) does tren dose need to be increased every cycle? say for example 50mg ed for first cycle....would you recommend 60mg ed for new cycle then 70mg ed for 3rd tren cycle and so on?.......will you still gain on same dose for next cycle?

[Atomini]

few more questions.....

1) Thoughts on running deca with tren ?

2) highest tren dose you would recommend?

3) does tren dose need to be increased every cycle? say for example 50mg ed for first cycle....would you recommend 60mg ed for new cycle then 70mg ed for 3rd tren cycle and so on?.......will you still gain on same dose for next cycle?

1. Bad idea. I believe i've made my opinion clear in this thread a couple of times on running Nandrolone with Trenbolone in the same cycle. There really isn't too much to say about it though. Both of these compounds are 19-nors, both of them are Progestins, both of them shut the body down very hard, and both of them are known to be associated wtih harsher and unique side effects compared to other anabolic steroids . You are really asking for trouble if you attempt to run both at the same time because it creates far too much Progestational activity in the body at one time. It is something that has been done before (and I believe one or two members here have attempted it recently) but it t isn't something reccomended and would turn out to be a high risk very uncomfortable cycle.

2. There is no highest Trenbolone dose I would reccomend, because everybody reacts differently on an individual basis. There should be no need to venture higher than 500mg weekly though, considering the sheer strength of Trenbolone. I have found that personally anything greater than this amount results in a waste of money, increased side effects in spite of no greater gains, and is a health risk,

3. No anabolic steroids should need to have their dosed increased every cycle, ESPECIALLY Trenbolone. You should be able to gain on the exact same dose of Trenbolone every cycle for a good while. There is no telling for how long or how many cycles you'll be able to consistently be making gains at a particular dose before you need to increase it, but i'll tell you this - it is absolutely unnecessary to increase your Trenbolone dose after every single subsequent cycle. Those who do such a thing are simply making excuses up in their heads to run greater and greater doses, and as you do such a thing you will end up putting your body at a greater risk of health complications, and with something like Trenbolone, it can end up being astronomical. It is also something unnecessary with other anabolic steroids as well. Grow INTO your dose. Please see this thread for more information on this growing issue of people unnecessarily increasing their doses after every cycle: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...into-your-dose!!

[Rv8G30]

Scroll up above or go back in the thread a bit, there's a guy who posted the exact same question as you I think. EOD shots should be just fine with something like that. Gains from something like that should be good, provided nutrition is spot on.

Thanks I saw that. Just wasnt sure on how often to inject. Eod would give around 200mg of prop/tren /mast. I was considering this because of convienence. But do you think I should do that or be better off doing prop & tren only with different dose? Maybe prop at 200 or 250 and tren 350 to 400?

[Atomini]

Thanks I saw that. Just wasnt sure on how often to inject. Eod would give around 200mg of prop/tren/mast. I was considering this because of convienence. But do you think I should do that or be better off doing prop & tren only with different dose? Maybe prop at 200 or 250 and tren 350 to 400?

Well, I am never a fan of these 'blended' products (stuff like Sustanon , Test 400, blends of Test/Tren , or Test/Tren/Masteron , etc.). When you use blends you have less control over what you are doing and what you are able to do. I've always enjoyed just having everything separate for this reason. You can control dosing and administration far more efficiently.

[Rv8G30]

Well, I am never a fan of these 'blended' products (stuff like Sustanon, Test 400, blends of Test/Tren, or Test/Tren/Masteron, etc.). When you use blends you have less control over what you are doing and what you are able to do. I've always enjoyed just having everything separate for this reason. You can control dosing and administration far more efficiently.

Good point. Tell me if Im way off here. Id like to do a normal tren cycle but that blend had me interested because I thought maybe I could get good results at lower doses (200mg of each) and minimal sides vs just test and tren with tren at a higher dose. Im mainly worried about sleep issues. I have a hard work schedule that has me splitting up sleep. I have a hard time getting to sleep normally and use sleepaids often. Really not sure which way to go here.

[Atomini]

Good point. Tell me if Im way off here. Id like to do a normal tren cycle but that blend had me interested because I thought maybe I could get good results at lower doses (200mg of each) and minimal sides vs just test and tren with tren at a higher dose. Im mainly worried about sleep issues. I have a hard work schedule that has me splitting up sleep. I have a hard time getting to sleep normally and use sleepaids often. Really not sure which way to go here.

I would say use the Trenbolone independently of the other compounds, as you will be able to have better control over your Tren dose if you do encounter any undesireable side effects such as insomnia issues. You won't be able to do this as easily if you used a blend product.

[Rv8G30]

I would say use the Trenbolone independently of the other compounds, as you will be able to have better control over your Tren dose if you do encounter any undesireable side effects such as insomnia issues. You won't be able to do this as easily if you used a blend product.

Ok last question. How bad is the insomnia at 300 to 500 mg tren ? Any experience with it? I sometimes use that zzquil which works ok. Sorry if its been mentioned already but I didnt recall any real specifics on the insomnia. Thanks.

[zacheryah]

Ok last question. How bad is the insomnia at 300 to 500 mg tren? Any experience with it? I sometimes use that zzquil which works ok. Sorry if its been mentioned already but I didnt recall any real specifics on the insomnia. Thanks.

gaba works against those. or pikamelon, if you can get it

[Atomini]

Ok last question. How bad is the insomnia at 300 to 500 mg tren? Any experience with it? I sometimes use that zzquil which works ok. Sorry if its been mentioned already but I didnt recall any real specifics on the insomnia. Thanks.

I don't experience much insomnia at doses less than 300mg per week, but again every individual is different. I also find insomnia becomes worse as the cycle progresses. For example, insomnia at week 8 of a cycle is VERY significant compared to week 2 where there is almost nothing. Try doing a search through this thread or even in the forum in general, you'll find some good discussions as to how to assist sleep during Trenbolone use where insomnia is prominent.

[RyanGreg]

thanks for your response Atomini....you are very helpful and knowledgable...

1) Do you believe tren would be a staple in most pro bodybuilder cycles? what do you think would be the most common steroids of choice in a pro bodybuilders cycle and what doses would they be running.... i know you won't know for sure but what would you presume them to consist of?

2) test tren and EQ for a bulking cycle...? you think EQ is a good combo to run with tren? I see this done quite often....what are your favorite compounds your recommend to run along side tren for a bulking cycle...?

3) if gyno signs appear and i don't know if its caused by estrogen or prolactin from the tren what should i do? I'm currently using aromasin 12.5mg ED for estrogen and 1mg prami ED for prolactin..... but if i notice some gyno signs and i don't know what its from estrogen or prolactin should I increase aromasin dose and also increase the prami dose and supplement with vitamin B6....? what would you do in this situation if you start to get some gyno but don't know what is causing it. I'm on test tren and mast. what should i do if i ever do notice any gyno symptoms and I'm using an AI and anti prolactin.

4) i have heard that nolva for PCT is something you want to stay well away from if using tren or deca in a cycle? is there any truth to this? someone said it makes prolactin sides worse and possible to get gyno this way?

[Atomini]

thanks for your response Atomini....you are very helpful and knowledgable...

1) Do you believe tren would be a staple in most pro bodybuilder cycles? what do you think would be the most common steroids of choice in a pro bodybuilders cycle and what doses would they be running.... i know you won't know for sure but what would you presume them to consist of?

2) test tren and EQ for a bulking cycle...? you think EQ is a good combo to run with tren? I see this done quite often....what are your favorite compounds your recommend to run along side tren for a bulking cycle...?

3) if gyno signs appear and i don't know if its caused by estrogen or prolactin from the tren what should i do? I'm currently using aromasin 12.5mg ED for estrogen and 1mg prami ED for prolactin..... but if i notice some gyno signs and i don't know what its from estrogen or prolactin should I increase aromasin dose and also increase the prami dose and supplement with vitamin B6....? what would you do in this situation if you start to get some gyno but don't know what is causing it. I'm on test tren and mast. what should i do if i ever do notice any gyno symptoms and I'm using an AI and anti prolactin.

4) i have heard that nolva for PCT is something you want to stay well away from if using tren or deca in a cycle? is there any truth to this? someone said it makes prolactin sides worse and possible to get gyno this way?

1. Yes, Trenbolone has been referred to as the 'nectar of the Gods', and it is believed that if if one is aspiring to be a proffessional bodybuilder that you won't get very far without the use of Trenbolone. Trenbolone is believed to be a staple in most of the cycles run by competitive bodybuilders.

2. Testosterone /Trenbolone/Equipoise is a solid stack, but why have EQ in there when you can have something better such as Winstrol , Masteron , or Anavar ? Equipoise is a garbage anabolic steroid that is essentially a one-trick-pony. It's not regarded by many as being very useful or versatile. My own personal favorite compounds are of course Testosterone and Trenbolone being at the top of the list, and I rarely use anything aside from those. Next favorite would be Anavar, which I am currently experimenting with and using for the first time and I am REALLY enjoying it (only 3 weeks into cycle as well). The strength gains are great and it seems to go well with Testosterone and Trenbolone. I am currently running my Testosterone/Trenbolone/Anavar cycle at 100/200/700mg per week (100mg daily of Anavar).

3. Gyno issues (Prolactin related gyno as well) across the board should be kept under control by keeping Estrogen levels under control. You will usually know what type of gyno it is when it happens. If your nipples start lactating, you've got Prolactin problems. If your nipples lactate along with a lump under your nipple and puffiness, then you have Prolactin problems WITH gyno formation caused likely by high Estrogen levels. As soon as this happens, get a hold of Estrogen by increasing your Aromatase Inhibitor dose, block the receptor sites with a SERM such as Nolvadex , and attack the Prolactin with a dopamine agonist drug such as Cabergoline or Pramipexole. The idea here is to attack all possible angles of gyno and leave no stone unturned. If you still get gyno despite using an AI AND a Prolactin antagonist... increase your AI dose and throw a SERM in to block receptor sites while the AI lowers total blood plasma levels of Estrogen. If nothing works after you've done then, then you're fvcked pretty much.

4. The issue of Nolvadex exacerbating Prolactin issues is an old rumor that isn't true. I originally believed this until I came across some valid clinical research that stated otherwise. If you do a search through this thread, you may be able to locate the cited reference I posted and the details surrounding it. But in short, it just isn't true. It should be okay to use Nolvadex with a 19-nor. I also never EVER stated that Nolvadex is a bad PCT choice, I don't know where you heard that. It is a very good choice for PCT and is perhaps one of the best choices. It is Clomid that is the PCT drug that I am totally against using during PCT.

[Knockout_Power]

Just getting around to this thread now, was away for a while. Awesome go-to guide and Im glad its a sticky... Always something I wanted to write but I dont have the patience for it, nor this much experience. Over the last year and a half Ive noticed that every 140lb kid trying to add 40lbs in one cycle has let their dealer convince them that Tren is the only way to go for a first cycle cause "thats what all the freak Pro's use.. you want to be a freak dont you?".

Ran into a 19 year old kid who was bragging to me about getting on his first cycle of 50mg/ED Dbol , Test @ 500 and 750 Tren En. Other than being jealous of his cashflow, I told him to save a bit of coin and pick out what he wants written on his headstone. *** and no, Im not insinuating that he would die from this cycle, but this mentality repeated over and over does not make for a healthy lifestyle***

And I REALLY like this part...

Q: Can I run tren higher than test? Is this safe?

Yes and yes. In fact, I very much prefer running the tren higher than test. Ideally, this is what you want to do! I used to run my tren cycles at 400/week of test prop with 300/week of tren. Then I eventually realized, why not just make tren the primary anabolic and leave test for purely maintaining normal bodily function?

If you're taking Tren, LET IT DO THE WORK!!!

Most beautiful cycle I ever witness was 250/wk Test E & 350/wk Tren E.

[Atomini]

Just getting around to this thread now, was away for a while. Awesome go-to guide and Im glad its a sticky... Always something I wanted to write but I dont have the patience for it, nor this much experience. Over the last year and a half Ive noticed that every 140lb kid trying to add 40lbs in one cycle has let their dealer convince them that Tren is the only way to go for a first cycle cause "thats what all the freak Pro's use.. you want to be a freak dont you?".

Ran into a 19 year old kid who was bragging to me about getting on his first cycle of 50mg/ED Dbol , Test @ 500 and 750 Tren En. Other than being jealous of his cashflow, I told him to save a bit of coin and pick out what he wants written on his headstone. *** and no, Im not insinuating that he would die from this cycle, but this mentality repeated over and over does not make for a healthy lifestyle***

And I REALLY like this part...



If you're taking Tren, LET IT DO THE WORK!!!

Most beautiful cycle I ever witness was 250/wk Test E & 350/wk Tren E.

Excellent post, KPO! I've missed having you around the forum and I totally agree with you on what you've just said. I mentioned this in another thread recently, but i'll say it again (especially for anyone who will be reading this): I may be a big fan of Trenbolone , and I may have a lot of experience with it - but I will never reccomend or suggest its use to anyone, especially if they are a novice or even an intermediate AAS user. You will never EVER find me telling someone to use Trenbolone for any reason, and you will never find me telling someone "sure, its cool to use Trenbolone in your first cycle" when some kid presents me with a cycle plan/outline for their very first ever cycle and it includes Trenbolone in it. I will give advise as to its proper use if someone asks me or posts about it, but I will never say "yeah, USE TREN!". The fact of the matter is that Trenbolone IS a dangerous compound when not understood or used properly, and I have seen just far too many people that throw doses of Tren around like it's child's play and treat its strength like its Primobolan or something. There is a reason (actually, there are MANY reasons) as to why Trenbolone is an anabolic steroid not approved for human use or used at all by the medical establishment, and that says a lot about something.

The minute someone underestimates, disrespects, and treats Trenbolone lightly like it's child's play is the minute they've met the grim reaper. The nice slow onset grim reaper.

[RyanGreg]

Everyone always says Tren actively burns fat..... is this true?

[Atomini]

Everyone always says Tren actively burns fat..... is this true?

The short answer is: NO.

The long answer is: all anabolic steroids have an ever so slight fat metabolizing effect, due to the existence of androgen receptors on fat cells that when activated by androgens, initiate lipolysis. The problem is that this doesn't occur in any significant measure with any anabolic steroid . The majority of the "fat loss" people claim to see with anabolic steroids (especially VERY androgenic /anabolic ones such as Trenbolone ) is not due to this feature, but is instead due in larger part to the nutrient partitioning effect that all anabolic steroids exhibit. It's through this nutrient partitioning that anabolic steroids work - this is what they DO, it's how they work and how they allow you to grow muscle faster and larger with their use. They influence the body to shuttle more nutrients you consume towards the muscles and muscle growth than towards fat storage. It is well understood that Trenbolone possesses a far greater nutrient partitioning effect on the body than does any other anabolic steroid due to its incredible strength. This is why Trenbolone is used in cattle for the purpose of increased feed efficiency to favor higher ratios of lean mass with lower ratios of fat. It is also used in cattle for lean mass retention while the animals are in transit to the slaughterhouse, where they may not be fed very much during this time. This is why your steaks and porkchops come out leaner and are more plentiful and cheaper in the grocery store.

[mockery]

just came off my tren , going to miss feeling like a god.

even running just 350 a week, was great sides were minimal. Aggression was nil, blood pressure due to cialis was in check. Heart rate was extremly high, girls i was with all was asking me why my heart was beating so fast lol. insomnia was nil, Night sweats were bad on the final 2 weeks when i got lazy and started injecting eod. When i was pinning daily i was pretty much fine. The final weeks of nights sweats i got really ****ed up my mattress, it was like bad, pillow case could ring out and have water come out... stopped prami after one week and went bareback prolactin. No change in nipples, no deca dick. Mind you it takes me an hour to cum with a hot blonde if i cum at all. facial and chest acne wasnt BAD but i didnt have pimples before. back acne didnt change and got a couple of cyst like pimples in my delts that were gross.

*Strength was great.

* recovery didnt change

* central nervous system was fatigued

* growth i didnt blow up by any means, but half way through the tren, i hit a wall with myostatin and calories, my gradual weekly increase stalled, and from what i played with i was looking at having to add at least another 1500 calories , yes 1500 daily to peak and push through this stall. and no it wasn't figured out by a website, through actual eating.

* because of job loss and stress of family event i mentally took a hit and couldn't afford 300 a week on food, instead i cut protein way back to 150-200 a day and went from cycling 50/50/50/120 carbs a day to eating unlimited carbs. so in turn i didn't gain much more then 3lbs on tren but this was at the tail end of a long cycle were gains slow down to a snails pace, but i managed to keep my abs visible, stay below 8% body fat and eat a very high carb/gluten based diet and felt great doing so and visual body recomp changes.. im not sure at all if the tren contributed to this or not. oh and i stopped all cardio while running tren.

Bottom line even at a low dose like i ran, with quality product i was able to achieve alot. i forgot to get another vial so i cut the tren short to only 6 weeks instead of 8 but i was happy with what i got from it and in 2 months i can run a 8 weeker then. Quality product, mentally prepared and dialed in diet along with the up most respect for this drug and i think you are gtg. I have a feeling a lot of people giving advice on tren, haven't even used it. Read this thread over and over. Good info here on how to do it right, trust me Ive done tren wrong before, wasn't fun.

Thanks atomini, for all your help on the forums and in PM's

[Papa-pwn]

I have planned my next cycle, it will commence the 14th of febuary, and it will be my first go at tren .

I have run a couple of Ph cycles, and a test E cycle at 500 a week for 13 weeks, the PCT for said cycle came to a conclusion the 15th of October.

My next cycle is to be 550mg Test e a week and 400mg Tren E a week. I am in possession of Adex, Letro, Caber, Prami, Nolvadex , and Clomid in rather large quantities to run on cycle/PCT after, due to my everlasting fear of gyno. I understand I will not need all of these chemicals, I plan on using Adex and Prami throughout the cycle and clomid+nolva for PCT.



Now that that's stated, I was wondering what sort of diffent gains I can expect in comparison to my previous cycle of test e? I gained ~40lbs that cycle, increasing from 185lbs to 227, also increasing BF% from 9 to 13. I am currently 6' 216 at 12.8% BF several months later, so a net gain of 31lbs. I do not max lift, but my strength shot up substantially on all lifts, seemingly every week, and I've lost very little from my gains in that department.

My question is, sorry for digressing, what sort of gains should I expect from adding tren e to my next cycle? I was very happy with the gains I saw from my test e cycle(which were near double those of my training partner, perhaps he is not a strict with his diet as I), but I have high aspirations in this sport and while I enjoy competing in amateur events, I desire more. Thanks!

[Atomini]

I have planned my next cycle, it will commence the 14th of febuary, and it will be my first go at tren .

I have run a couple of Ph cycles, and a test E cycle at 500 a week for 13 weeks, the PCT for said cycle came to a conclusion the 15th of October.

My next cycle is to be 550mg Test e a week and 400mg Tren E a week. I am in possession of Adex, Letro, Caber, Prami, Nolvadex , and Clomid in rather large quantities to run on cycle/PCT after, due to my everlasting fear of gyno. I understand I will not need all of these chemicals, I plan on using Adex and Prami throughout the cycle and clomid+nolva for PCT.



Now that that's stated, I was wondering what sort of diffent gains I can expect in comparison to my previous cycle of test e? I gained ~40lbs that cycle, increasing from 185lbs to 227, also increasing BF% from 9 to 13. I am currently 6' 216 at 12.8% BF several months later, so a net gain of 31lbs. I do not max lift, but my strength shot up substantially on all lifts, seemingly every week, and I've lost very little from my gains in that department.

My question is, sorry for digressing, what sort of gains should I expect from adding tren e to my next cycle? I was very happy with the gains I saw from my test e cycle(which were near double those of my training partner, perhaps he is not a strict with his diet as I), but I have high aspirations in this sport and while I enjoy competing in amateur events, I desire more. Thanks!

Nobody can tell you what gains to be expecting. Everyone responds differently to AAS, everyone has different genetics that will allow faster/slower/larger/smaller growth with or without AAS. And I don't know if or how close you're at your genetic limit or not. Your diet is the other aspect of how much you'll gain. You mentioned on one cycle you put on 40 lbs but your bodyfat percentage increased 4%.... and we're not even counting water weight. This would indicate your diet is that of the bulking type (whether or not its clean, its obvious the caloric surplus is just a little high up there over the top). If you adjust your diet to favor lean mass with minimal fat gain, then you may have received different results - perhaps less lbs. but higher muscle:fat gaining ratio.

Trenbolone does not aromatize into Estrogen at any amounts, and you should therefore not experience the same amount of water weight gain - but the problem here is you're choosing to run it with 550mg of Testosterone , which has moderate aromatase interaction. If you insist on continuing with that dose of Testosterone, I reccomend running it with an AI, which, as you mentioned you have on hand. Other than that, i've already mentioned all of the other factors.

A final note from my personal experience - I would be what is classified as an advanced AAS user. I ran a Testosterone/Trenbolone cycle at 100/800mg weekly respectively. My diet was shifted towards lean mass with little to zero fat gain. I gained 12 lbs. in the 8 week cycle - no fat gain, no water retention - just 100% lean mass (I even lost bodyfat on the cycle). 12 lbs. of pure muscle gain with no fat is incredible progress for me at my level - many people struggle to put on 12 lbs. of muscle in a year WITHOUT gear.

[Papa-pwn]

Nobody can tell you what gains to be expecting. Everyone responds differently to AAS, everyone has different genetics that will allow faster/slower/larger/smaller growth with or without AAS. And I don't know if or how close you're at your genetic limit or not. Your diet is the other aspect of how much you'll gain. You mentioned on one cycle you put on 40 lbs but your bodyfat percentage increased 4%.... and we're not even counting water weight. This would indicate your diet is that of the bulking type (whether or not its clean, its obvious the caloric surplus is just a little high up there over the top). If you adjust your diet to favor lean mass with minimal fat gain, then you may have received different results - perhaps less lbs. but higher muscle:fat gaining ratio.

Trenbolone does not aromatize into Estrogen at any amounts, and you should therefore not experience the same amount of water weight gain - but the problem here is you're choosing to run it with 550mg of Testosterone , which has moderate aromatase interaction. If you insist on continuing with that dose of Testosterone, I reccomend running it with an AI, which, as you mentioned you have on hand. Other than that, i've already mentioned all of the other factors.

A final note from my personal experience - I would be what is classified as an advanced AAS user. I ran a Testosterone/Trenbolone cycle at 100/800mg weekly respectively. My diet was shifted towards lean mass with little to zero fat gain. I gained 12 lbs. in the 8 week cycle - no fat gain, no water retention - just 100% lean mass (I even lost bodyfat on the cycle). 12 lbs. of pure muscle gain with no fat is incredible progress for me at my level - many people struggle to put on 12 lbs. of muscle in a year WITHOUT gear.

Exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks for the reply and the thread in general!

And yes when I bulk it is not a clean bulk in the sense that I eat much more than 500 over my caloric maintenance. Closer to 1500 over..I know, not everyone's idea of perfect, but working well for me so far! I have found eating more than I need, while unfortunately resulting in more fat, makes sure I am getting the most out of my cycle in terms of gains. As I've found I can cut BF just as well after my cycle, just takes more time naturally :P I won't be starting this next cycle until I am back under 10% BF, at that point I believe I will be around 210-213, and then I hope to replicate last cycle's gains and cut again at my PCT's conclusion. Very excited for this tren adventure.

Again, thank you!

[mockery]

now that you have ran test as a support to the tren . what worked best for you high test and tren or low support test and high tren?

i like masteron alot, thou next cycle not sure if running 100mg test with low dose tren will get me any where as id still like to grow into my dosage of tren. I feel 350-400 weekly again if i get good quality will serve its purpose nicely. but running low test is something i worry about unless i keep running my HRT test dose only, and run tren a weekly with it for 8 week then drop tren. Confusing but the logs ive read running test lower the tren seem to be great. just wounding if im doing 400mg tren weekly with 800mg masterone and hrt dose test if its just a waste of money. actually would make sense to run mast prop but not sure how to dosage it unless its 100-150mg daily to get the best out of it, but at the dose for prop... so expensive.

one large random brain fart, just curious ur experince on the two different tren protocols, high test/low test