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Thread: Atomini's all-you-need-to-know about TREN and how to use it effectively thread!

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by bascat View Post
    Thanks for the reply- as you say there are many different reasons why I might have had the reaction that I did. Another quick question- the articles on injecting the ventro glute don't cover the length of needle only the guage. For someone of <10% bodyfat, would a 1" needle do the job or is a 1 1/2" a better option?
    For ventrogluteal injections, I use a 25 gauge 1 inch. I've used 1.5 inch before but its too long for that area. Most should be good with 1 inch.

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Wow, these are the most basic of questions that you should be able to answer yourself with no problems. Nolvadex is bad for PCT? Where did you hear this? That's perhaps the most truthless claim i've ever heard about Nolvadex, as Nolvadex is AN ABSOLUTE ESSENTIAL ADDITION TO PCT. Please, take the time to do a lot more research (especially in the PCT section and Educational Threads section of the forum) before you decide to use any anabolic steroid.
    (another steroid forum) that i cannot mention trashes nolvadex says its the worst thing you can use..... everyone over there says it.

    Also what about the prami atom ini do i keep using prami during PCT?

  3. #603
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    That whole thing over Nolvadex is most likely due to the fact that Nolvadex is a cancer-causing carcinogen and has a few detrimental effects on the body that they've noticed in breast cancer patients who are prescribed the drug. The problem is that these breast cancer patients are all on Nolvadex for YEARS, CONSTANTLY. A 4 - 6 week run of Nolvadex for PCT is not going to kill you. It's fine. You can use it. The only way you're going to exhibit the detrimental effects of Nolvadex is if you take it for years upon years upon years, and we don't know if most, some, or any of these effects apply to men since it has been almost exclusively women who were observed.

    You can keep using Prami during PCT but it is not a necessity, you don't have to if you don't want to.

  4. #604
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    Professor Atomini. really enjoyed the thread, and of course I have a question:
    I,am 49 yrs self medicating hrt (no insurance) 1ml sustanon 250 a week, split in two shots.

    Q: Should I drop my test to 1/2 ml a week while running tren -e at 200 for 8 weeks. Then returning to my previous 1ml of sust a week.

    Or stay at present hrt (250 sust) and add tren-e at 350 a week split into 2 shots. For 8wks then drop the tern.

    I am making steady body recomp progress on this htr regime . Just fell like a kick.
    I have run several cycles over the years, and no longer concerned with testicular atrophy.
    I would really appreciate any input.

  5. #605
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    I would reccomend lowering it to half a ml split twice weekly, yes. This is simply to reduce any chances of aromatization from higher Testosterone doses. 250mg per week is very high for a TRT dose. I wouldn't even consider it a TRT dose since the body only produces only about 50 - 70mg weekly of Testosterone endogenously. Bring it down when you run the Trenbolone (unless you want to use an AI).

  6. #606
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    Thanks, I will bring it down and run cabr.
    Is there a detrimental effect to running a trt to high' (other than gyno )

  7. #607
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    Yes, when you start to get into supraphysiological bodybuilding doses, cholesterol issues become a problem ESPECIALLY if you're on it for TRT because now you are on long-term use. If you do an 8 - 10 week cycle of high Testosterone here and there, you only have negatively altered cholesterol profiles for a temporary cycle before you come off and everything clears up during your time off, but think about it... long term at a high dose is not good for your arteries. Blood pressure issues also present themselves as well.

    Another problem, although not life threatening (but threatening to your gains) is that long term use of Testosterone at supraphysiological bodybuilding doses will raise levels of antagonistic hormones and proteins that inhibit the muscle-building effects (such as increased Myostatin, increased Cortisol, increased SHBG, increased Estrogen, etc.). While you may at first make great gains in the gym running 250-300mg weekly of Testosterone, you're going to notice things slowing down, and the only way to remedy this is to bring your body's T levels back to normal physiological range (50 - 70mg weekly) so as to ensure that all the antagonistic hormones and proteins to Testosterone will reduce over time. If you're on TRT, this is known as blasting and cruising. If you're not on TRT, its called cycling. lol.

  8. #608
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    I will take your advice , dropping to a true trt and cruise for .... ? A month before the term blast

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Android- View Post
    I will take your advice , dropping to a true trt and cruise for .... ? A month before the term blast
    It's up to you since essentially you're the one on TRT here, but I would reccomend time on + PCT = time off protocol everyone generally engages in, even for TRT patients. One month is not enough time for all of the antagonistic proteins and hormones to return to normal levels (for the most part, in most individuals). A big part of the reason why those who aren't on TRT engage in the 'time on + PCT = time off' protocol is beecause of endogenous Testosterone production and HPTA recovery. Even though you still don't need to worry about that because you're on PCT, that's no reason to start cycling more frequently and start going crazy with the stuff. Cholesterol profile changes don't return to normal THAT fast, and it varies between individuals, lifestyle habits, genetics, etc. Just remember that cycling more frequently (or blasting and cruising more frequently) greatly increases the potential for damage on the body.

  10. #610
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    Yo Atomini!

    In your experience has taking tren affect your studies at all? I'm studying law at uni, which involves a LOT of reading, and I'm worried that taking tren whilst studying may negatively impact my grades.

    Thoughts?

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super-Chump View Post
    Yo Atomini!

    In your experience has taking tren affect your studies at all? I'm studying law at uni, which involves a LOT of reading, and I'm worried that taking tren whilst studying may negatively impact my grades.

    Thoughts?
    Nope, I haven't seen a single negative aspect of Trenbolone associated with my academics or studying. I feel as though I have been using Trenbolone long enough in cycles (6 years to so now) to have warranted any noticeable difference and I haven't seen anything resembling and negative impact, so no. If anything, it has made me smarter seeing as though i've only continued to learn more and do very well in my studies! I'm kidding about that, as that is the typical bro-science you so frequently see around here. Just because i've been using Trenbolone for 6 years in cycles and happen to be doing well in school doesn't mean the Trenbolone is the cause lol.

    Good question though.

  12. #612
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    hey Atomini, what about people with asthma and are on tren ?

    any respiratory problems?

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00 View Post
    hey Atomini, what about people with asthma and are on tren ?

    any respiratory problems?
    Good question, I was just looking into this yesterday actually. Although I couldn't find any definitive information, logic would conclude that anyone with asthma problems should either completely steer clear of Trenbolone , or at the very least approach Trenbolone use with extreme caution and care. This is because Trenbolone increases levels of the prostaglandin F2Alpha, which one of its functions serves as a bronchial constrictor. That's serious if someone has moderate to severe asthma. As a general precaution, i'd advise people with asthma to stay away.

  14. #614
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    So if Test is taken with Tren it eliminates gyno and sexual dysfunction completely? Did I read that right in your original post?

    Also, if I train in CrossFit (I also lift) as long as I don't get into the higher doses typically I should be fine? Thanks again....
    Last edited by REBORN52; 01-12-2013 at 07:11 PM.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by REBORN52 View Post
    So if Test is taken with Tren it eliminates gyno and sexual dysfunction completely? Did I read that right in your original post?
    No, you've misunderstood that whole concept completely. I can't see where or how you could've interpreted my post as saying that.

    I've made a couple of key points about Testosterone use with Trenbolone in my post:

    - Trenbolone shuts down or at the very least heavy suppresses endogenous natural Testosterone production. Without exogenous Testosterone there to maintain at least normal physiological function in an environment absent of endogenous Testosterone, you will potentially encounter many problems resulting from the lack of Testosterone, including sexual dysfunction.

    - Testosterone, if used in supraphysiological amounts, necessitates the need for an aromatase inhibitor in order to control Estrogen levels in the body as a result of aromatization. If Estrogen levels are not kept under proper control either through the use of an AI or the use of Testosterone at TRT doses, GYNO BECOMES WORSE when Testosterone is used with Trenbolone.

  16. #616
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    I think its about time to pop that Tren cherry. I might take the plunge.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    No, you've misunderstood that whole concept completely. I can't see where or how you could've interpreted my post as saying that.

    I've made a couple of key points about Testosterone use with Trenbolone in my post:

    - Trenbolone shuts down or at the very least heavy suppresses endogenous natural Testosterone production. Without exogenous Testosterone there to maintain at least normal physiological function in an environment absent of endogenous Testosterone, you will potentially encounter many problems resulting from the lack of Testosterone, including sexual dysfunction.

    - Testosterone, if used in supraphysiological amounts, necessitates the need for an aromatase inhibitor in order to control Estrogen levels in the body as a result of aromatization. If Estrogen levels are not kept under proper control either through the use of an AI or the use of Testosterone at TRT doses, GYNO BECOMES WORSE when Testosterone is used with Trenbolone.

    Ok. Let me clarify: What about when running higher doses of Tren vs Test.... I come to that conclusion after reading this......

    Q: Can I run tren higher than test? Is this safe?

    Yes and yes. In fact, I very much prefer running the tren higher than test. Ideally, this is what you want to do! I used to run my tren cycles at 400/week of test prop with 300/week of tren. Then I eventually realized, why not just make tren the primary anabolic and leave test for purely maintaining normal bodily function? That way, you totally avoid the estrogen related sides. [B]No risk of bloat, no gyno , no estrogen, no SHBG from high test levels [/B](trenbolone does not have a high affinity for SHBG - nowhere near test). Just solid lean hard gains. I highly reccomend running tren higher than test, and keep test at TRT doses (100mg per week). There are some who are advising against this practice, but I find it funny that they provide no reason behind it. It is not as if the trenbolone acts like pac-man in your blood, eating up all of your testosterone. You will be fine, and this is the ideal method of running tren - not to say running test at a hefty dose isn't a bad thing, however... if that is what you wish to do, then so be it.

    I guess I took it out of context.....

    I'm asking this because I'm thinking about using it down the line and want to make sure I have all the info. I've been told by several how good it is.....

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by REBORN52 View Post
    Ok. Let me clarify: What about when running higher doses of Tren vs Test.... I come to that conclusion after reading this......

    Q: Can I run tren higher than test? Is this safe?

    Yes and yes. In fact, I very much prefer running the tren higher than test. Ideally, this is what you want to do! I used to run my tren cycles at 400/week of test prop with 300/week of tren. Then I eventually realized, why not just make tren the primary anabolic and leave test for purely maintaining normal bodily function? That way, you totally avoid the estrogen related sides. [B]No risk of bloat, no gyno , no estrogen, no SHBG from high test levels [/B](trenbolone does not have a high affinity for SHBG - nowhere near test). Just solid lean hard gains. I highly reccomend running tren higher than test, and keep test at TRT doses (100mg per week). There are some who are advising against this practice, but I find it funny that they provide no reason behind it. It is not as if the trenbolone acts like pac-man in your blood, eating up all of your testosterone . You will be fine, and this is the ideal method of running tren - not to say running test at a hefty dose isn't a bad thing, however... if that is what you wish to do, then so be it.

    I guess I took it out of context.....

    I'm asking this because I'm thinking about using it down the line and want to make sure I have all the info. I've been told by several how good it is.....
    The idea in that FAQ question is to outline the benefits of using low (TRT) doses of Testosterone when running Trenbolone.

  19. #619
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    Thanks for your response Atomini!

  20. #620
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    So what specific doses would you recommend someone who is experienced with cycles go? 250 test enanthate 400 tren enanthate? 500?

  21. #621
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    Atomini.

    I copied this post from another forum, He actually linked the studies but I think you have to be a member to view... pretty good read.

    Tren Decreases Muscle Protein Synthesis

    No, that wasn't a typo. All AAS function via the same androgen receptor; but different compounds produce their effects in very different ways. Some compounds like Test and NPP work by increasing the rate of protein synthesis. However, it is not correct that all AAS increase muscle protein synthesis; in fact trenbolone acetate (TBA) is known to actually decrease new protein synthesis. See references below. Then how does it increase lean muscle mass? Net protein accretion is determined by two rates, the rate of protein synthesis and the rate of protein degradation. High rates of both result in high protein turnover, but not necessarily high protein accretion or retention. Test and NPP both increase the rate of protein turnover, by increasing both the rate of synthesis and degradation; however they increase synthesis more than they do degradation, resulting in increased protein accretion. In other words, they cause you to produce more new protein than is lost, so your muscles grow. Tren (TBA) works the opposite way it decreases both protein synthesis and degradation, reducing protein turnover; but it decreases degradation more, so net protein accretion is increased. In other words, some compounds work by increasing anabolism while others decrease catabolism.

    What is the practical significance of this? Anabolic compounds, like NPP are better suited to bulking, because your main focus is increasing protein synthesis to build more new muscle. Anti-catabolic compounds, like Tren, on the other hand, are better suited to cutting, because they work by preventing protein degradation. Tren can increase muscle size, even in a caloric deficit, by preventing the loss of muscle protein, which, also, forces your body to get its energy from fat, burning more fat. This also explains why stacking is so effective. Tren taken alone is not as effective as when combined with test. By combining anabolic compounds with anti-catabolic compounds in the same cycle, you are getting the best of both worlds, increasing protein synthesis and decreasing protein degradation at the same time. The bottom line is that different compounds work thru distinct mechanisms, producing different effects. Understanding these differences is important to get the greatest benefit depending on one's goals. I have heard countless times that all AAS can be used for either bulking or cutting, etc. And that all AAS work the same way by increasing protein synthesis. These simplistic statements are just plain false, and reveal a great ignorance of the distinct mechanisms of action of different compounds.

  22. #622
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    I just posted this on a thread about Ed ... I want your take on my situation.


    Im actually running into some ED probs,, I came off test and deca right into a cut of TEst P and TRen Ace.. The last 2 weeks of the deca cycle I had probs keeping it up, was horny but my unit would be up then down ETC.. Wife doesn't care cus in the end we get ours but its still happening now on the tren 3 weeks in and im getting annoyed.

    Ive been running caber at 1mg a week as well Pharma grade. I was at 80mg tren ace and 40mg test p EOD and stopped my AI on such a low dose of test but recently matched the test to 80mg eod.. Ill prolly throw in Arimidx .25 EOD now..

    Today I also added T3 to my cycle but only going 25mcg a day to maintain normal t3 lvls that tren can drop as well as dieting..

    Can normal T3 lvls offset and help against prolactin buildup?

  23. #623
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    Very very very interesting first post there. I'd love to see the references to that, could you post them here? I doubt any of them involved human test subjects, and therein lies the problem. But in general, what that little piece you posted was stating in the end was that Trenbolone is still very effective for the addition of lean mass. I HONESTLY think that at this point, that little article is simply splitting hairs concerning this topic. I think that the evidence displayed in Trenbolone users, as well as animals and cattle that are administered the compound, shows that it's still an incredible compound for mass and strength gains. Even by the end of the post there, it basically said that Trenbolone is still extremely effective for the addition of lean mass, and that it's ability to increase protein synthesis absolutely dwarfs any possible catabolic properties it may carry with it. Once again, I feel at this point it's just hair splitting.

    In regards to your post about T3 and ED: I don't have an answer to your question, unfortunately. I don't know if T3 has a Prolactin antagonizing effect. I have yet to encounter any data or information that links T3 to Prolactin in the body that I can add to my knowledge base in my head.

    Unfortunately there are certain things and information I just don't know (yet). I will look into it though, as I think I vaguely remember coming across some data a while ago that covered T3 in relation to Prolactin.

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini
    Very very very interesting first post there. I'd love to see the references to that, could you post them here? I doubt any of them involved human test subjects, and therein lies the problem. But in general, what that little piece you posted was stating in the end was that Trenbolone is still very effective for the addition of lean mass. I HONESTLY think that at this point, that little article is simply splitting hairs concerning this topic. I think that the evidence displayed in Trenbolone users, as well as animals and cattle that are administered the compound, shows that it's still an incredible compound for mass and strength gains. Even by the end of the post there, it basically said that Trenbolone is still extremely effective for the addition of lean mass, and that it's ability to increase protein synthesis absolutely dwarfs any possible catabolic properties it may carry with it. Once again, I feel at this point it's just hair splitting.

    In regards to your post about T3 and ED: I don't have an answer to your question, unfortunately. I don't know if T3 has a Prolactin antagonizing effect. I have yet to encounter any data or information that links T3 to Prolactin in the body that I can add to my knowledge base in my head.

    Unfortunately there are certain things and information I just don't know (yet). I will look into it though, as I think I vaguely remember coming across some data a while ago that covered T3 in relation to Prolactin.
    PM bro with link

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin332
    So what specific doses would you recommend someone who is experienced with cycles go? 250 test enanthate 400 tren enanthate? 500?
    Bump. All help is greatly appreciated.

  26. #626
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    Great read, fascinating compound.

  27. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin332 View Post
    Bump. All help is greatly appreciated.
    If you are a bare-bones beginner to Trenbolone , 300 - 400mg weekly should do just fine. More experienced Trenbolone users will usually make amazing progress with the 400 - 500mg weekly range but even that is high for Trenbolone. There absolutely is no need to be running doses that high of such a strong compound. I am a VERY experienced Trenbolone user, and right now i'm running 200mg weekly, so it goes to show you: high/higher/excessive doses is NOT the definition of an advanced user.

    I have found personally that the 300 - 400mg weekly range is the sweet spot for me, despite my extensive experience with Trenbolone. Even the 200mg weekly I am running right now is providing great progress.

  28. #628
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    If you have easy/ cheap access to a blend containing tren and test would you recommend using it given that: you'd end up with about 600mg of test/ 260mg of tren ace per week?

    I'm currently running test only at a similar dose and loving it. So would using this blend for 10 weeks be a similar experience with just a sprinkle of tren on top?

  29. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick_beard View Post
    If you have easy/ cheap access to a blend containing tren and test would you recommend using it given that: you'd end up with about 600mg of test/ 260mg of tren ace per week?

    I'm currently running test only at a similar dose and loving it. So would using this blend for 10 weeks be a similar experience with just a sprinkle of tren on top?
    I have personally never ever used Trenbolone blends, so I am not sure what the typical concentrations are. If it indeed is 600/260 of Testosterone /Trenbolone respectively, I would say that is good enough to provide quality gains. Keep in mind that the Testosterone is high, but other than that I think it is a sufficient dose for both for a beginner Trenbolone run.

  30. #630
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    Hey Atomini, im sure this has been asked 100 times already but i must have missed it; how many weeks would you run tren A for ? say 350 prop 350 Tren A.

    Thanks

  31. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FQ320 View Post
    Hey Atomini, im sure this has been asked 100 times already but i must have missed it; how many weeks would you run tren A for ? say 350 prop 350 Tren A.

    Thanks
    8 - 10 weeks.

  32. #632
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    Hi, I have 4 test e vials and each one has 250 mg and I wanna inject only 125 mg per week split in 2 injections, I have an empty stanazolol 10 ml bottle sealed with a rubber stopper head. My question is this, can I inject the 4 test vials in that empty bottle and use the test from it during my 8 weeks cycle. The stanazolol bottle is empty but I think I can see dry white remains. So what do you think? I have no other choice and I spent weeks to find a new bottle with no luck and my test tren cycle will start in a few days.

  33. #633
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    Just letting you know this is an unrelated Trenbolone question.

    But to answer it, yes you can do this but there will be some risks seeing as though Stanozolol is a water-based anabolic steroid , and you will be putting oil-based gear into a vial that still has small amounts of Stanozolol in it. There is also a sterility factor here, and you can do this as long as you are absolutely certain that the Stanozolol vial is safe. Otherwise, just be safe rather than sorry and buy some brand new sealed, sterile glass vials from AR-R or any place on the internet. Infections are not something to mess around with or risk.

  34. #634
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    Im clueless as to where I can find cabergoline. Vitamin B6 is probably my most available choice, how much should I take if Im starting a cycle of
    400mg test e/200mg tren e?

  35. #635
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    ^^cancel that question... i found the answer after reading for about 2 hours
    next question... where/how can one find Nizoral 2% shampoo? is it prescription only? if so, (being that i dont have a prescription) what else can one use?
    some of my uncles are balding so im led to believe its in my genes "/

  36. #636
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    Most reports I have read say the Nizoral 2% really is not much if any more beneficial than 1%. Most people dont notice a difference. It is available on Amazon.

    Oh I just noticed we are in the Tren post. Please in the future make a seperate thread/post for these questions so we can keep this tren related.

  37. #637
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    Lovbyts has pretty much answered it. Nizoral 2% is not available OTC in the United States, I believe. You will require either a script or you can buy it via the internet from Canadian vendors where it is available OTC here and they will ship it to you.

  38. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini
    Lovbyts has pretty much answered it. Nizoral 2% is not available OTC in the United States, I believe. You will require either a script or you can buy it via the internet from Canadian vendors where it is available OTC here and they will ship it to you.
    You can also get it from UK based pharmacies that sell on Amazon.

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini
    Lovbyts has pretty much answered it. Nizoral 2% is not available OTC in the United States, I believe. You will require either a script or you can buy it via the internet from Canadian vendors where it is available OTC here and they will ship it to you.
    You can buy Revita shampoo on amazon which is best rated for hairloss and it contains 2% niz.

  40. #640
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    Hello, I'm starting my cycle next Saturday. I'm adding clen to my test tren cycle.
    Reminder: I'm running an 8 weeks cycle, test e 125 mgs/week and tren a 75 mgs eod. My goal is lean bulk while getting as cut as possible, cutting has the priority.

    1. Is it a good idea to add stanozolol as well, 50 mg ed oral? Let's say for the last 6 weeks or during the whole 8 weeks, or maybe make the cycle longer to make it like this:
    test e 1-10
    tren e 1-8
    winni 5-10
    I need your advice.

    2. I have an empty opened bottle with a rubber stopper, is there a place I can find to get it sterilized and safely add the vials in it?

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