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Thread: Atomini's all-you-need-to-know about TREN and how to use it effectively thread!

  1. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by texastea View Post
    Atomini, there are a number of guys on PM forum who are on a 100 test/100 tren weekly cruise, year-round. What are your thoughts/concerns on year round use of tren, even if at a relatively low 100 mg dosage?
    Well, it can be done, but my question is: for what purpose?

    I am sure you can cruise on it, and at a dose that low, it wouldn't do much harm. Remember that 100mg of Trenbolone is the equivalent of 500mg of Testosterone . So essentially, you'd be cruising on the equivalent of 500mg Testosterone. Just remember that even at a dose that low, Trenbolone could possibly still present health issues. It normally isn't an anabolic steroid that people would elect to run long-term, even at a low dose like that. Although it has no notable hepatotoxicity, especially at doses that low, there are other effects Trenbolone exhibits on the human body that aren't favorable.

  2. #682
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    How long do you cycle, ie say you take 100 mill/week of test-prop, 300 mill/week of tren - e, and 1 mill/week of anti progesterone, how long do you take these for it to count as "one cycle"? I am not going on gear until I am 25 (3years) so that gives me time to do proper research, and you seem like someone who knows what they're talking about?

  3. #683
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    I don't understand what you are asking. Please read threads in the 'educational threads' section of this forum in order to read about what constitutes a proper cycle. Unfortunately, your question doesn't sound like it is Trenbolone specific.

    Here is a sample cycle:

    8 weeks total cycle length
    Weeks 1 - 8:
    - Testosterone Propionate at 100mg/week (25mg EOD)
    - Trenbolone Acetate at 400mg/week (100mg EOD)
    Weeks 1 - 4:
    - Dianabol at 25mg/day

  4. #684
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    Trenbolone burns fat even when bulking....full explination in the video take a watch let me know what you think?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AS5tmscUmkM

  5. #685
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    Also Atomini how long is the longest one should run tren ?

    I ran it before at 50mg ED for 12 weeks and loved it could handle all the sides....... Can i do 16-20 weeks on tren?
    Last edited by RyanGreg; 02-25-2013 at 03:25 AM.

  6. #686
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    Its your body and you can do whatever the heck you want, you don't need to validate your decisions through me. But I will say that running Trenbolone longer than an 8 - 10 week period is not good, and the risks increase greatly the longer you run it, and I would never do something like that with a compound as harsh as Trenbolone. Not to mention the gains:side-effects ratio starts to shift in an unfavorable proportion the longer you are on anything. If you underestimate and disrespect a compound as serious and as harsh as Trenbolone, it will disrespect you. Proceed with caution.

  7. #687
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    tren e or tren a? and why?

    buddys at my gym tell me tren e is stronger than tren a?

  8. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanGreg
    tren e or tren a? and why?

    buddys at my gym tell me tren e is stronger than tren a?
    You are about to turn pro and have run 5 or 6 cycles. Should you not really know this by now?!?!?!
    NO SOURCES GIVEN

  9. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    You are about to turn pro and have run 5 or 6 cycles. Should you not really know this by now?!?!?!
    Also curious.

  10. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black

    You are about to turn pro and have run 5 or 6 cycles. Should you not really know this by now?!?!?!
    Give someone enough rope, and they'll eventually hang themselves. Lol

    Reminds me of the "I've done tons of research" lines we hear and then they propose the most ludicrous cycle possible and no AIs. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite
    Also curious.
    5 months ago requesting advice on first cycle

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.US3Bt_ogGc0

    5 months later he has already done 5or 6 cycles (one of which lasted 16 weeks) and is ready to turn pro.

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.US3CNPogGc0

    You will note he hasn't returned to this thread since I called him out.
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  12. #692
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    5 or 6 months and already set to go pro? Damn it! What have I been doing so wrong!?!?!!

  13. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleInk
    5 or 6 months and already set to go pro? Damn it! What have I been doing so wrong!?!?!!
    You need to run 5 or 6 cycles in 5 months mate. Oh, and be full of BS too.
    NO SOURCES GIVEN

  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    5 months ago requesting advice on first cycle

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.US3Bt_ogGc0

    5 months later he has already done 5or 6 cycles (one of which lasted 16 weeks) and is ready to turn pro.

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=#.US3CNPogGc0

    You will note he hasn't returned to this thread since I called him out.
    ugh. Silly and wasting everyone's time. Thanks for the links.

  15. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black

    You need to run 5 or 6 cycles in 5 months mate. Oh, and be full of BS too.
    My wife says I'm full of sh1t all the time. Awesome, I'm almost there. I'll be pro by October!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Its your body and you can do whatever the heck you want, you don't need to validate your decisions through me. But I will say that running Trenbolone longer than an 8 - 10 week period is not good, and the risks increase greatly the longer you run it, and I would never do something like that with a compound as harsh as Trenbolone. Not to mention the gains:side-effects ratio starts to shift in an unfavorable proportion the longer you are on anything. If you underestimate and disrespect a compound as serious and as harsh as Trenbolone, it will disrespect you. Proceed with caution.
    Could you delve into the harsh sides a little more for the long term user? If I take tren for 20+ weeks (start low dose and increase after about 10 weeks) what additional tests/issues would I need to worry about?


    Oh, I should probably throw this in here too....who has cardio issues during sex while on tren?
    Last edited by Perseverance1; 02-27-2013 at 04:54 AM.

  17. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseverance1 View Post
    Could you delve into the harsh sides a little more for the long term user? If I take tren for 20+ weeks (start low dose and increase after about 10 weeks) what additional tests/issues would I need to worry about?


    Oh, I should probably throw this in here too....who has cardio issues during sex while on tren?
    Long term use of a compound like Trenbolone is asking for trouble on your body's subsystems. I don't have time to pull the research up right now, but there is evidence that Trenbolone exhibits a far greater degree of heart muscle damage, impaired endothelial function, and vascular reactivity than any other anabolic steroid , even at very low doses. Trenbolone has a much greater negative effect on cholesterol profiles than any other injectable anabolic steroid, and its blood pressure increases also are not matched by any other injectable anabolic steroid. Are these all deleterious effects on the cardiovascular system that you want to be occurring inside you on a daily basis in the long term? These are all things you might not 'feel', but they are happening inside you whenever you decide to use Trenbolone, and the only time you'll 'feel' it is when it is too late and your heart stops functioning because of the excessive stressors on it caused by Trenbolone.

    People take things like these far too lightly, and the fact is that almost every notable individual who was known to be an avid 'hardcore' and long-term user of Trenbolone that died, died from heart and cardiovascular related complications (Zyzz, and numerous others, including some board members on here, RIP). If someone has an underlying cardiovascular condition, whether it is genetic or not (Zyzz), Trenbolone should be the LAST choice of anabolic steroid for that person. This is one of the reasons why cycling with Trenbolone should be limited to an absolute MINIMUM of 8 - 10 weeks! If you can make it even shorter than that, then better! If you have underlying cardiovascular issues or a genetic predisposition for CVD, stay away from Trenbolone at all costs. In fact, stay away from all anabolic steroids (but ESPECIALLY Trenbolone) at all costs.

  18. #698
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    43 Y.O. 5'9", 162#, ~14%? - Last cycle's PCT ended 8 months ago.
    Currently dieting and cardio with very light weight training, leaning up for this coming cycle.

    4th cycle in 3 years, but the first one running different esters. I figured that it'll be easiest with 1 injection daily rather than e3d Test-E and e1.5-2 days Tren -A. - Hence, the weird doses. (yes, I'm a little OCD, LOL)
    Last cycle, I felt I had too much test, so I'm dialing it back to more of a maintenance dose. My Tren-E dose was similar to this proposed one, (150mg/e3d) but I handled it fine. This time though, I have no interest in "more than enough..." and, "A" is more concentrated than "E" right?

    140mg Test-E / Wk. (20/mg per injection, ed) Wk 1-14
    420mg Tren-A / Wk. (60/mg per injection, ed) Wk 2-13

    Would you start Test-E more than a week before the Tren-A, due to the longer ester?
    Would you dial the Tren back to 10 weeks instead of 12?
    Would you dial the Tren-A dose back to 350mg/wk? (50/mg per injection, ed. I'm trying to keep it in multiples of 10 mg for measuring simplicity.)

    TIA!
    Last edited by oatmeal69; 02-27-2013 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Tren weeks 2-13...

  19. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal69 View Post
    43 Y.O. 5'9", 162#, ~14%? - Last cycle's PCT ended 8 months ago.
    Currently dieting and cardio with very light weight training, leaning up for this coming cycle.

    4th cycle in 3 years, but the first one running different esters. I figured that it'll be easiest with 1 injection daily rather than e3d Test-E and e1.5-2 days Tren -A. - Hence, the weird doses. (yes, I'm a little OCD, LOL)
    Last cycle, I felt I had too much test, so I'm dialing it back to more of a maintenance dose. My Tren-E dose was similar to this proposed one, (150mg/e3d) but I handled it fine. This time though, I have no interest in "more than enough..." and, "A" is more concentrated than "E" right?

    140mg Test-E / Wk. (20/mg per injection, ed) Wk 1-14
    420mg Tren-A / Wk. (60/mg per injection, ed) Wk 2-13

    Would you start Test-E more than a week before the Tren-A, due to the longer ester?
    Would you dial the Tren back to 10 weeks instead of 12?
    Would you dial the Tren-A dose back to 350mg/wk? (50/mg per injection, ed. I'm trying to keep it in multiples of 10 mg for measuring simplicity.)


    TIA!
    Question #1: There is usually no need to start the shorter ester at a later date than the first. The fact of the matter is that although a longer ester holds a larger half-life and larger window of release, blood plasma levels of any longer ester (Enanthate , Cypionate , Decanoate) all tend to achieve peak blood plasma levels of the hormone they are esterified to within approximately 48 hours after injection. This means that despite the misinformation you hear about how longer estered anabolic steroids take longer to 'work', they are actually working very soon after you inject them. It just takes a longer time to acheive steady state optimal blood plasma levels over the long term with long esters. So no, you don't need to start the shorter ester a week or two later after starting the long ester. That is largely unrequired, although some people have felt the need to do so. It doesn't hurt to do it, but you don't NEED to do it is what I am saying.

    Question #2: Yes, whenever possible, if your goals and life allows, run Trenbolone for as little time as possible. The less time you are on a compound like Trenbolone, the better it is for your body (if you indeed value your health). If you don't make the gains you aimed for, there is always next time. Always question yourself as to whether or not you value your health and whether or not it is worth it to keep pushing the envelope. If you are not gaining any monetary value out of what you are doing (or any worthwhile returns at all), then you probably don't need to be putting your body at risk with extended cycle lengths and/or increased doses. If you are doing this purely for cosmetic reasons, as most of us are, then you most likely look 100x better than any average individual out there, but you just don't realize it until someone tells you that you are (we all have to be reminded once in a while that we all tend to overachieve in our goal settings). But my point is, overachieving goals or not, there is no need to put your health at increased risk with riskier compounds.

    Question 3: Yes, for the reasons I have stated above alone, always relegate your Trenbolone cycles to the lowest effective dose. Even from a strength standpoint, 350mg/week of Trenbolone is the equivalent in strength of 1,750mg/week of Testosterone . Even an increase of 100mg of your Trenbolone dose will translate into a hefty potency increase when we look at the reality of things, so, for example, your Trenbolone dose is then increased to 450mg/week, which translates to a strength equivalent of 2,250mg/week of Testosterone. Strength equivalency of 1,750mg vs. strength equivelancy of 2,250mg is a massive difference. If people realized this more, they would not only save money by running sensible proper doses, but they would also be giving their bodies a massive break from the stressors that such a strong compound can cause at increasing doses.

    Trenbolone is a hormone to be respected at all times. Remember that at all costs, and when you see others mismanaging, disrespecting, and misusing Trenbolone, remember to remind them of the same things I just told you.

  20. #700
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    Outstanding, excellent thoughts. Thanks VERY much!

  21. #701
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    You're welcome!

    Remember that you have a responsibility to educate others on the proper use of Trenbolone if/when you encounter someone using it the wrong way or using it in a stupid manner. This thread has done a lot to educate perhaps thousands at this point of the proper use of Trenbolone, which was a once previously 'mysterious' anabolic steroid that so many people misunderstood and were scared of and/or used improperly, but I can't be there for every bonehead that misuses it to tell them that what they're doing isn't going to be a good idea. If you see someone treating Trenbolone as if its some smalltime child's play hormone, please exercise due dilligence and correct them, because as much as I might not give a shit about what they do with their own bodies, they are potentially putting someone ELSE'S health at risk when other people see what they're doing and take ideas from their stupid and harmful use.

  22. #702
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    Great point as well.
    We should also recognize that when someone uses steroids improperly and has difficulties, they contribute to the negative press and consequences we all must deal with.

  23. #703
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    Oh yes, that's another important point I was going to bring up in my last reply, but I wanted to focus more on the health issues involved. Nevertheless, that is still a big impact that whether or not we want to be a part of it, we ARE in one way or another. Every one of us represents the image of anabolic steroids as a whole.

    So the next time anyone here feels like flying off their handle without exercising self control in front of a bunch of people who knows the person is on AAS, or the next time someone decides to up their dose or extend the duration of their cycle being fully aware of the health risks, think again, because if something goes wrong and you can't own up to what you've done, you have now further marred the reputation of anabolic steroids in the face of the public once again. And that makes it that much harder for us to regain a foothold in promoting a more neutral or positive view of these substances in the public eye. Things are bad enough as it is, but I shouldn't have to remind people of that lol.

  24. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Long term use of a compound like Trenbolone is asking for trouble on your body's subsystems. I don't have time to pull the research up right now, but there is evidence that Trenbolone exhibits a far greater degree of heart muscle damage, impaired endothelial function, and vascular reactivity than any other anabolic steroid , even at very low doses. Trenbolone has a much greater negative effect on cholesterol profiles than any other injectable anabolic steroid, and its blood pressure increases also are not matched by any other injectable anabolic steroid. Are these all deleterious effects on the cardiovascular system that you want to be occurring inside you on a daily basis in the long term? These are all things you might not 'feel', but they are happening inside you whenever you decide to use Trenbolone, and the only time you'll 'feel' it is when it is too late and your heart stops functioning because of the excessive stressors on it caused by Trenbolone.

    People take things like these far too lightly, and the fact is that almost every notable individual who was known to be an avid 'hardcore' and long-term user of Trenbolone that died, died from heart and cardiovascular related complications (Zyzz, and numerous others, including some board members on here, RIP). If someone has an underlying cardiovascular condition, whether it is genetic or not (Zyzz), Trenbolone should be the LAST choice of anabolic steroid for that person. This is one of the reasons why cycling with Trenbolone should be limited to an absolute MINIMUM of 8 - 10 weeks! If you can make it even shorter than that, then better! If you have underlying cardiovascular issues or a genetic predisposition for CVD, stay away from Trenbolone at all costs. In fact, stay away from all anabolic steroids (but ESPECIALLY Trenbolone) at all costs.
    Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it. Do you think that doing something like 10 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 10 weeks on, 7 weeks off would be a fair bit safer? This would be at low to medium dosages (350-650mg). Also, should I get additional blood work and another EKG as well? I already take my BP every day at least twice (sit at 120/79 ).

    Appreciate your help.

  25. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseverance1 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it. Do you think that doing something like 10 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 10 weeks on, 7 weeks off would be a fair bit safer? This would be at low to medium dosages (350-650mg). Also, should I get additional blood work and another EKG as well? I already take my BP every day at least twice (sit at 120/79 ).

    Appreciate your help.
    No, that would be not any safer at all, and in fact would be even more detrimental as blood plasma levels will be taking wild rollercoaster rides up and down, and a dose range of 350 - 650mg of Trenbolone is by no means a "low to medium" dosage at all. 350 - 650mg of Trenbolone is the strength equivalent of 1,750 - 3,250mg of Testosterone . Please explain to me how that is considered "low to medium". That to me sounds like "high to extreme".

    Negative alterations in cholesterol require months (approximately 2 - 4 months depending on many different factors) to return to normal healthy levels, and the worse they are altered (especially from anabolic steroids such as Trenbolone), the longer your body will take to restore its proper cholesterol profiles. I had performed a Trenbolone cycle once and then took a little over a whole year off from any AAS cycles, had some bloodwork done monitoring cholesterol levels, and although my levels were in the normal range, they were still in the high end of normal!!!!!! That was a whole year after coming off a Trenbolone cycle. I was advised to make the appropriate adjustments to ensure it didn't rise out of the normal range, which it was very close to doing, and this was especially important considering I was going to start cycling again. Now, imagine what an individual's cholesterol levels are who decides to:

    A. Abuse Trenbolone by either running it at excessive doses or excessive cycle lengths
    B. Engages in poor nutritional habits (i.e. 'dirty bulking' or eating crap foods)
    C. Does not ensure the administration of proper cardiovascular care through supplementation of cardiovascular support supplements/compounds
    D. Might also possess an unknown underlying predisposition for CVD

    These are serious drugs that cause serious alterations of the body's subsystems, and any way you try to slice it, if you decide to abuse these things (i.e. venturing beyond the boundaries of what would be considered moderate/responsible use), you will reap the consequences of your actions and it isn't pretty at all. Often times by the time you realize it, it's too late.

    Bloodwork is ALWAYS essential and is a must-have whenever using anabolic steroids .

  26. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    No, that would be not any safer at all, and in fact would be even more detrimental as blood plasma levels will be taking wild rollercoaster rides up and down, and a dose range of 350 - 650mg of Trenbolone is by no means a "low to medium" dosage at all. 350 - 650mg of Trenbolone is the strength equivalent of 1,750 - 3,250mg of Testosterone . Please explain to me how that is considered "low to medium". That to me sounds like "high to extreme".

    Negative alterations in cholesterol require months (approximately 2 - 4 months depending on many different factors) to return to normal healthy levels, and the worse they are altered (especially from anabolic steroids such as Trenbolone), the longer your body will take to restore its proper cholesterol profiles. I had performed a Trenbolone cycle once and then took a little over a whole year off from any AAS cycles, had some bloodwork done monitoring cholesterol levels, and although my levels were in the normal range, they were still in the high end of normal!!!!!! That was a whole year after coming off a Trenbolone cycle. I was advised to make the appropriate adjustments to ensure it didn't rise out of the normal range, which it was very close to doing, and this was especially important considering I was going to start cycling again. Now, imagine what an individual's cholesterol levels are who decides to:

    A. Abuse Trenbolone by either running it at excessive doses or excessive cycle lengths
    B. Engages in poor nutritional habits (i.e. 'dirty bulking' or eating crap foods)
    C. Does not ensure the administration of proper cardiovascular care through supplementation of cardiovascular support supplements/compounds
    D. Might also possess an unknown underlying predisposition for CVD

    These are serious drugs that cause serious alterations of the body's subsystems, and any way you try to slice it, if you decide to abuse these things (i.e. venturing beyond the boundaries of what would be considered moderate/responsible use), you will reap the consequences of your actions and it isn't pretty at all. Often times by the time you realize it, it's too late.

    Bloodwork is ALWAYS essential and is a must-have whenever using anabolic steroids.
    Well I've seen people on these boards talk about doing a gram of tren so I suppose I figured that would be high and 650mg being 65% of that would be considered medium...also, Bear's running something like an 8 on 2 off protocol with a bunch of different compounds...what makes his body different than mine? All I want to do is gain whatever knowledge he has/is available so I can do a similar cycle (though about half as long) to what he's doing while not taking any more of a risk than he is.

    I'm just here looking for raw data/advice on how to do what I'm going to do safely...not advice on whether I should do it or not. I do appreciate the concern though.

  27. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseverance1

    Well I've seen people on these boards talk about doing a gram of tren so I suppose I figured that would be high and 650mg being 65% of that would be considered medium...also, Bear's running something like an 8 on 2 off protocol with a bunch of different compounds...what makes his body different than mine? All I want to do is gain whatever knowledge he has/is available so I can do a similar cycle (though about half as long) to what he's doing while not taking any more of a risk than he is.

    I'm just here looking for raw data/advice on how to do what I'm going to do safely...not advice on whether I should do it or not. I do appreciate the concern though.
    Have you read any posts by or seen any about bear? I'll give you a hint, there is a reason his name is BEAR.

    Do you think his first dose was 1g or even 650mg when he started Tren? No, it was probably closer to 200-300 range.

    You don't get 'huge, massive, jacked, etc without putting the work in. You need MATURE muscle to build upon before taking these huge doses!

    Who looks better today? A guy who has run two test e cycles with proper AI pct and time off or Zyzz's rotting body in the ground?

    It's your health, if you don't want to heed the information about health concerns then so be it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brick View Post
    Have you read any posts by or seen any about bear? I'll give you a hint, there is a reason his name is BEAR.

    Do you think his first dose was 1g or even 650mg when he started Tren ? No, it was probably closer to 200-300 range.

    You don't get 'huge, massive, jacked, etc without putting the work in. You need MATURE muscle to build upon before taking these huge doses!

    Who looks better today? A guy who has run two test e cycles with proper AI pct and time off or Zyzz's rotting body in the ground?

    It's your health, if you don't want to heed the information about health concerns then so be it

    Alright, maybe you don't understand...nothing anyone on this earth says is going to dissuade me from doing a long tren cycle. Now it's analogy time so maybe you can comprehend how useless posts like yours are.

    Let's say I post on the forum that I'm going to jump out of an airplane, and I ask what would be some good precautions to take. Your answer is "omg dont jump out of a airplane you'll look like zyzz's corpse"

    A helpful response would be something akin to the following "hey persev, when I jumped out of a plane I used a parachute...it was a real life saver!" or " you should take a sky diving course before jumping out of a plane" or "make sure you get your parachute professionally rolled so that it won't get tangled up when you deploy it".

    Do you see the difference? People on these boards say that they want to give the very best/most helpful information out there to anyone who asks so that people don't kill themselves and make AAS users around the world look bad and yet when guys like me show up looking for info all we get is "DONT DO IT YOU'LL DIE"....I've already decided to do it. My mind is made up. Now I'm just looking for help to stay as healthy as possible while doing it.

    I don't mean to sound like a prick here but honestly I don't think I could phrase it any other way and get my point across. Hope you understand.

  29. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseverance1 View Post
    Well I've seen people on these boards talk about doing a gram of tren so I suppose I figured that would be high and 650mg being 65% of that would be considered medium...also, Bear's running something like an 8 on 2 off protocol with a bunch of different compounds...what makes his body different than mine? All I want to do is gain whatever knowledge he has/is available so I can do a similar cycle (though about half as long) to what he's doing while not taking any more of a risk than he is.

    I'm just here looking for raw data/advice on how to do what I'm going to do safely...not advice on whether I should do it or not. I do appreciate the concern though.
    There is no way to do what you are planning to do safely. Bear knows what he is doing and has been doing it for a very long time. He gets regular bloodwork done, monitors everything far more meticulously than anyone here, keeps all of his internal vitals in check, and he even posted this disclaimer in a previous thread in which I discussed his use with him:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bear 79 View Post
    I absolutely in no way condone or recommend this behavior (my behavior) I have a very specific & somewhat time sensitive goal in sight, I'm not doing this for vanity.

    I usually don't post my doses on the open forum for just this reason, but I made an exception this time, & I'm starting to think it was a poor exception to make.

    If ANYONE is considering this just because "Bear does it, so can I" please, PM me first, this not for the faint of heart..................literally.
    Translation: "DO NOT DO WHAT I AM DOING, IT IS NOT SAFE."

    You can do whatever you want. But if you ask me how to do something safely that is inherently not safe, I can't tell you to go and do it. You can do it in defiance of my reccomendations and suggestions, but it won't be safe. I can't tell you how to drive a car into a concrete wall at 90MPH safely.

  30. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    There is no way to do what you are planning to do safely. Bear knows what he is doing and has been doing it for a very long time. He gets regular bloodwork done, monitors everything far more meticulously than anyone here, keeps all of his internal vitals in check, and he even posted this disclaimer in a previous thread in which I discussed his use with him:



    Translation: "DO NOT DO WHAT I AM DOING, IT IS NOT SAFE."

    You can do whatever you want. But if you ask me how to do something safely that is inherently not safe, I can't tell you to go and do it. You can do it in defiance of my reccomendations and suggestions, but it won't be safe. I can't tell you how to drive a car into a concrete wall at 90MPH safely.
    I completely agree with bear and would recommend the same thing. I am doing what I am doing with a specific goal in sight...also, my decision has absolutely nothing to do with bear. The ONLY reason I brought him up is because it seems pretty narrow minded and hypocritical of the board to generally accept/ignore what he does while simultaneously putting others down for wanting to do something similar (regarding cycle length). I can afford blood work/EKG/prostate checks every few weeks...I will have more than enough free time as well (unemployment until the fall term starts woohoo!)....ALL I am seeking here is the knowledge. I planned on getting as much as I could out publicly to benefit everyone and then PMing Bear with any leftover questions I had...but it would seem like you're all more interested in trying to dissuade me from doing something you don't agree with rather than help me do it as safely as possible. Fine logic you have there...

    Thanks anyway.

  31. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseverance1 View Post
    I completely agree with bear and would recommend the same thing. I am doing what I am doing with a specific goal in sight...also, my decision has absolutely nothing to do with bear. The ONLY reason I brought him up is because it seems pretty narrow minded and hypocritical of the board to generally accept/ignore what he does while simultaneously putting others down for wanting to do something similar (regarding cycle length). I can afford blood work/EKG/prostate checks every few weeks...I will have more than enough free time as well (unemployment until the fall term starts woohoo!)....ALL I am seeking here is the knowledge. I planned on getting as much as I could out publicly to benefit everyone and then PMing Bear with any leftover questions I had...but it would seem like you're all more interested in trying to dissuade me from doing something you don't agree with rather than help me do it as safely as possible. Fine logic you have there...

    Thanks anyway.
    Alright, so many bases to cover here. I can understand how you would view me as a hypocrite, but you should understand that even though I try to detour people from doing what myself am doing, I have the best of intentions at heart & mind, I'm not just being some hypocritical ass hat. I cycle the way I do because I intend to compete against big, bad, beastly mother fvckers that are shooting for my prize my decision had nothing to do with vanity. You mentioned getting heart monitor & blood pressure monitor once a week.........I do it every hour on the hour............yes......this shit is that serious, I get blood work every 60 - 90 days. in order to keep a close eye on cholesterol, Tren jacks that shit through the roof, and I get extensive prostate exams every 120 days. Also, at these doses, left ventricular hypertrophy is a big concern, I have yet to find a way to combat that other than not cycling. There are so many undue risks associated with doses this big, the reward has to be astronomical to balance it, & vanity is nowhere near heavy enough to counter balance the risk brother. I can go on & on with documented studies & dangers but I think you get my point.

    Antomini is the fvcking man when it comes to this shit man, he won't steer you wrong.

    And nobody here is trying to "hold you down", just trying to identify a legitimate justification or otherwise steer you towards a safer cycle.

  32. #712
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    And by the way.........I don't put people down when they want to do what I do..........I merely ask "why"..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bear 79 View Post
    Alright, so many bases to cover here. I can understand how you would view me as a hypocrite, but you should understand that even though I try to detour people from doing what myself am doing, I have the best of intentions at heart & mind, I'm not just being some hypocritical ass hat. I cycle the way I do because I intend to compete against big, bad, beastly mother fvckers that are shooting for my prize my decision had nothing to do with vanity. You mentioned getting heart monitor & blood pressure monitor once a week.........I do it every hour on the hour............yes......this shit is that serious, I get blood work every 60 - 90 days. in order to keep a close eye on cholesterol, Tren jacks that shit through the roof, and I get extensive prostate exams every 120 days. Also, at these doses, left ventricular hypertrophy is a big concern, I have yet to find a way to combat that other than not cycling. There are so many undue risks associated with doses this big, the reward has to be astronomical to balance it, & vanity is nowhere near heavy enough to counter balance the risk brother. I can go on & on with documented studies & dangers but I think you get my point.

    Antomini is the fvcking man when it comes to this shit man, he won't steer you wrong.

    And nobody here is trying to "hold you down", just trying to identify a legitimate justification or otherwise steer you towards a safer cycle.
    I appreciate you weighing in on here Bear and I was hoping you would...one thing I'd like to clear up is that I wasn't calling you a hypocrit...I was calling the guys who can simultaneously pat you on the back (or turn a blind eye) while telling me I'm retarded.

    I'll get bloodwork every 60 days, I already have a BP monitor I use a few times a day but I can up it to every hour, and I'll start getting my prostate checked every 120 days. I'll probably be PMing you with questions on how you control any/all potential sides and if there's anything else specific I should look for so hopefully you have a little spare time you don't mind using towards educating me a bit. I'm a pretty big numbers junkie so I'll be tracking all possible stats/sides etc. and loving every minute of it.


    One thing I don't get though is how everyone here likes to decide what is and isn't "worth the risk" for each individual. I mean, you're about to be the strongest man alive...and everyone here seems to believe that your goal completely validates the means you are using to achieve that goal...I honestly have no intention of becoming the strongest man alive, nor would I ever strive for that. I would never under any circumstance take the risks you are taking to be the strongest man alive.

    With that being said...let's say I'm willing to take those same risks so that I can look super cute in my pink Abercrombie T-Shirt my mom bought me at a garage sale (NOT why I'm doing it...just using extremes to prove a point lol). Isn't this a personal decision? Who is anyone else to say what I should or shouldn't risk for goal X. Sure, maybe I could reach my goal of filling out the shirt without gear while you can't...but let's add a timetable to that...maybe I only have 3 months to fill out my cute T-Shirt....I think you see where I'm going with this.

    All I'm really trying to say is maybe some members should reevaluate the reasons why they give or withhold information. My main reason for being here is I enjoy breathing, and would like to continue to do so...but on the other side of the coin I've always loved pushing things to the limits and genuinely enjoy taking risks.

    Cheers guys and thanks again Bear for the info.

  34. #714
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    Perseverance1,

    You asked me how to perform your proposed plan safely, did you not? And I gave you the answer that your proposed plan warranted: it is not safe. Did I once say that you couldn't do it? No. I said you cannot do it safely, as the risks are very high when doses and/or cycle lengths are increased to the degrees we discussed. Can you do it? Yes. You can do it. But do not expect to defy nature's (your body's) response in attempting to maintain homeostasis when you attempt to engage in such an endeavor.

    You asked me if it could be done safely. I said no it can't, considering all of the factors involved. I never said you couldn't do it. You can do whatever you want.

  35. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Perseverance1,

    You asked me how to perform your proposed plan safely, did you not? And I gave you the answer that your proposed plan warranted: it is not safe. Did I once say that you couldn't do it? No. I said you cannot do it safely, as the risks are very high when doses and/or cycle lengths are increased to the degrees we discussed. Can you do it? Yes. You can do it. But do not expect to defy nature's (your body's) response in attempting to maintain homeostasis when you attempt to engage in such an endeavor.

    You asked me if it could be done safely. I said no it can't, considering all of the factors involved. I never said you couldn't do it. You can do whatever you want.
    Maybe I should rephrase my sentence. How can I do what I've already decided I'm going to do (long tren cycle) as safely as possible? What sides should I look for from weeks 10-20? What additional tests/precautions would you recommend besides what Bear has already offered. Are there any supporting supplements you think I should take while on cycle?

    I realize that you're the expert 'round these parts so I'm just trying to gain some insight into the beast that is tren before I really get this cycle moving. Thanks for the help so far guys.

  36. #716
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    So, question. If running test low (20mg/day) and tren around 50mg/day would you have to wait the recommended time on + pct = time off? Common sense tells me yes. But since this isn't far off of the TRT dose of test it seems a legitimate question to me. I could be totally wrong just wondering.

  37. #717
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    when you say that tren should be limited to a max of 8-10 weeks, is that just for tren ace? or does that include tren e too??

  38. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perseverance1 View Post
    Maybe I should rephrase my sentence. How can I do what I've already decided I'm going to do (long tren cycle) as safely as possible? What sides should I look for from weeks 10-20? What additional tests/precautions would you recommend besides what Bear has already offered. Are there any supporting supplements you think I should take while on cycle?

    I realize that you're the expert 'round these parts so I'm just trying to gain some insight into the beast that is tren before I really get this cycle moving. Thanks for the help so far guys.
    Well, constant testing of vitals through blood pressure monitoring, regular bloodwork, etc. has all been mentioned is an absolute must. If anything becomes wildly out of range, the best thing to do is stop the cycle of course. Make sure that if you're running very high doses of Trenbolone , that cycle lengths are kept as short as possible, or as short as your situation will allow. Make sure you're supplementing with at least 2 - 4g of fish oils per day in order to maintain healthy lipid profiles, and get a good cardiovascular support supplement to go along with that if you can. There really isn't much else to do, other than to make sure you keep on top of things by monitoring everything as meticulously as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiveOn View Post
    So, question. If running test low (20mg/day) and tren around 50mg/day would you have to wait the recommended time on + pct = time off? Common sense tells me yes. But since this isn't far off of the TRT dose of test it seems a legitimate question to me. I could be totally wrong just wondering.
    No, the dose of Testosterone on a cycle does not determine how much time off inbetween cycles you need. What determines how much time off in between cycles is your time on. Period. Time on + PCT = time off is exactly that. It never changes, no matter what your doses on-cycle are,

    Quote Originally Posted by kronik420 View Post
    when you say that tren should be limited to a max of 8-10 weeks, is that just for tren ace? or does that include tren e too??
    Longer esters should be run for a little longer due to the fact that their long-acting nature causes the steady optimal peak blood plasma levels to be reached at a later date than short esters do. Therefore, they need to be run 2 - 4 weeks longer on average than a short estered cycle.

  39. #719
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    I'll be damned if I can find it, but I know I've seen a really good post here about the differences in esters. Particularly that the shorter esters result in a greater activity (?) or strength (?) of Tren per mg that the longer ones. Atomini, or anyone know what I'm talking about?

  40. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal69 View Post
    I'll be damned if I can find it, but I know I've seen a really good post here about the differences in esters. Particularly that the shorter esters result in a greater activity (?) or strength (?) of Tren per mg that the longer ones. Atomini, or anyone know what I'm talking about?
    I know what you're talking about and that article was splitting hairs. In the overall scheme of things, esters augment the release rate of the hormones and how much of it enters the body at any one given time, that's about it.

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