I read,after a cycle you should expect to lose 90% of your gains, what's the point?

[Sharmthetics]

there pretty much isnt any tbh, unless you're competing.

my take on AAS now is dont bother unless you're competing, but im not going to force it down anyone's throat.

if i could turn back time, i wouldnt have started in the 1st place but 7yrs later and trt i aint got much choice. i thought one just kept tanking up, but ive learned through experience that doesnt happen, its a constant few steps forward and a few steps back each time.

might be diff for me, since i'd 16yrs natural behind me, who knows for sure, alot of variables??? but one thing i know for sure is the fact that the overwhelming majority of gain on a cycle is WATER.

sure you may say, why cycle anymore? truth is, i wont be unless i compete again, and that will be twice a year max.

So, basically, when you are at your genetic maximum and then choose to cycle, you pretty much gain some muscle then eventually go back to your genetic maximum? So my take is that you'll always only ever be at your genetic maximum when off cycle? When one reaches their genetic maximum then you think it would be much more intelligent to stay natural and just maintain that weight and attempt to get more lean/shredded. No point in cycling after reaching your genetic maximum. Seems as though the only way you could get constantly bigger after reaching your maximum is through blasting and cruising.

[dec11]

So, basically, when you are at your genetic maximum and then choose to cycle, you pretty much gain some muscle then eventually go back to your genetic maximum?correct, in my case and the case of plenty of experienced guys i know in real life, in fact, i know no-one who stays big all the time (except for constant users)

So my take is that you'll always only ever be at your genetic maximum when off cycle? When one reaches their genetic maximum then you think it would be much more intelligent to stay natural and just maintain that weight and attempt to get more lean/shredded. No point in cycling after reaching your genetic maximum.

Seems as though the only way you could get constantly bigger after reaching your maximum is through blasting and cruising. correct again, but you're selling your soul. to put into context when i self prescribed trt it was 250mg pw, i stayed at 102kgs constant, when i went legit i got roughly 100mg pw trt, i went down to 93kg pretty rapidly. the difference? WATER retention, plain and simple

bolds

[Sharmthetics]

bolds

Thanks man. As always very helpful. I guess my overall goal is to reach my genetic limit (whatever that may be, I'm 185CM so probably at least 85KG) and then first maintain that, and then be as lean and shredded as possible.

[dec11]

Thanks man. As always very helpful. I guess my overall goal is to reach my genetic limit (whatever that may be, I'm 185CM so probably at least 85KG) and then first maintain that, and then be as lean and shredded as possible.

no prob, i'll always lay down my experiences as they happen, without fear of saying ive lost so called 'muscle weight' and losing internet kudos

[dec11]

as you get older you'll most likely lose the desire to be an ox anyhow, (again, unless competing) most of us just want to be in shape and healthy after a certain length of time in this game

[austinite]

as you get older you'll most likely lose the desire to be an ox anyhow, (again, unless competing) most of us just want to be in shape and healthy after a certain length of time in this game

Very true. for me at least.

[Capebuffalo]

Where the hell did op go?
Dan tell him if he eats complete carbs he will keep his gains.
Bird food diet won't do it austn

[DanB]

Where the hell did op go?
Dan tell him if he eats complete carbs he will keep his gains.
Bird food diet won't do it austn

no no no i think he is lacking in his incomplete protein intake and switch to 10min workouts lol

[rhoads90]

Where the hell did op go?
Dan tell him if he eats complete carbs he will keep his gains.
Bird food diet won't do it austn

eh, carbs arent neccessary and i would say they are better off excluded. All they do is bloat you. Keto proved carbs suck and people can keep muscle the same on Keto. I hate carbs

[gonzo6183]

Yeah true. Well I'm 185CM (just under six foot one) so I'm guessing my genetic limit would be at the very least 85KG? So when you've reached your genetic limit your lifts stay the same and your weight pretty much doesn't move at all? I just want to know when I've hit my peak, because I don't really want to go over my limit.

At 6'1 your genetic limit is much more likely to be 100KG at a minimum, more likely 105-110kg

At 85kg 6'1 you would be a rake, no where even close to a genetic limit, you could pack on 15kg with good diet, training and rest

[dec11]

eh, carbs arent neccessary and i would say they are better off excluded. All they do is bloat you. Keto proved carbs suck and people can keep muscle the same on Keto. I hate carbs

admin!!!!!! lol

[dec11]

At 6'1 your genetic limit is much more likely to be 100KG at a minimum, more likely 105-110kg

At 85kg 6'1 you would be a rake, no where even close to a genetic limit, you could pack on 15kg with good diet, training and rest

it depends mate, you'd need to know his body shape to say. ive seen some taller lads at a light body weight but looking in good shape and not skinny looking at all

[Bulkn]

Yeah body shape/type, genetics and test levels.

[Sharmthetics]

it depends mate, you'd need to know his body shape to say. ive seen some taller lads at a light body weight but looking in good shape and not skinny looking at all

I'm naturally an ectomorph build. So I doubt I could ever get to 110KG. I'd say in all honesty, 95KG would probably be my maximum. I've got a close mate who is 2CM shorter than me but is naturally a bigger build than me. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm an ectomorph, in fact, I think it will help with the goals I want. I want to stay lean and shredded pretty much all the time, but still be fairly big. I'd say anywhere between 87KG and 93KG and I'd be happy to be honest, especially if I was shredded at that weight.

[stpete]

stpete are you on trt?

No, i'm not. I do 2 cycles a year. Both consist of a relatively high dose of test. I'm running test only right now.

im 37 and agree with you age can be a factor. these claims of keeping 70-90% of gains must be from ppl who were nowhere near natural potential from the start. its only ever internt gains that seem to stay for some strange reason (i dont mean yourself, more some of the wilder claims we see in the forum from time to time)

EVERYONE i know in real life shrinks back down to their starting weight after a cycle

haha..Yeah, i know about some of those gains. Well, not personally, but i've heard of them. And for the most part i agree w/you dec. I didn't get post in your last thread on this issue but since it's brought up again i might as well. And yes, over time people will eventually lose those gains. Now, i also believe that it's up to the individual. A certain about is innevitable, while on the otherhand, i do believe that a person can keep if they're able to eat, train and rest accordingly. But it's hard to do. Hence, why we lose most, if not all gains. I'll never believe someone ran a cycle and now maintain those gains. If so, you must tell me your secret.

[73mustang]

Austinite, I just absolutely have to say, your abs are to die for...I'm totally jealous and a little bit in love <3

[yannick35]

Training natural for at least 5-10 years before using steroids , to build the foundation is very important.

[Capebuffalo]

Austinite, I just absolutely have to say, your abs are to die for...I'm totally jealous and a little bit in love <3

Burst your bubble Austinite is a dude. No joke

[yannick35]

Cycling when older helps with energy, there are a lot of benefits taking testosterone , bone mass, protein synthetis and more.

Not sure but maybe people take too much steroids high dosage and have issues coming back to normal levels.

My first cycle i went from 174 to 212 but you are right i got at 220 natural way before that. So i lost the hardness i had on that cycle was 27 but i kept the size. Then again i already add the size naturally before dieting.

I feel that steroids are best used when you are getting older like hormonal therapy. Also steroids are not dangerous if you use them the right way.

For me its more of a question of health and getting back into shape. Still i will never run supra high dosage.

[Scabtree]

There's a lot of factors that come into play here. Age, diet and training being the obvious ones. I know when i first started at 27 years old i kept a good bit of my gains. First three cycles were test only, then i moved on to multiple compounds over the years. And over the years my energy, diet and a thing called life kinda got in the way of me being able to rest accordingly, workout like i was used to, and eat every meal to perfection. And due to this, i sometimes lost everything i had worked so hard for. But if work called for me to work 6-12 hour days for 4-5 months at a time, that will happen.
In a perfect world, we all wish we could eat, train and rest as we see fit but it doesn't always work out like that. So personally, i use to increase my workouts(cause i know it will do that), improve my recovery(as well), and hope that i can continue my training, diet and rest post cycle as needed to keep as much as i can. Knowing that this might be impossible is a risk i'm willing to take.
I'm now 43 and still get quality gains on cycle but yes, it gets harder to hold on to those gains. All you can do is try as hard as you can 24/7 and make the best of it.

That's my take anyway.

I agree, great post. Another point is sometimes it is difficult to measure gains, or loss of gains -- it could be strength, mass, fat loss, vascularity etc... For me it seems to be mass is the most difficult to hang on to, but strength seems to stay roughly the same.

[yannick35]

eh, carbs arent neccessary and i would say they are better off excluded. All they do is bloat you. Keto proved carbs suck and people can keep muscle the same on Keto. I hate carbs

no carbs make me look like a skinny sick man, i did that for 3 months keto lost muscles and when i trained no energy. To each is own

[DanB]

admin!!!!!! lol

dec check out his thread with pics in the lifting section

judging by the pic he is clearly an expert and think he could teach you a thing or two

[DanB]

No, i'm not. I do 2 cycles a year. Both consist of a relatively high dose of test. I'm running test only right now.

haha..Yeah, i know about some of those gains. Well, not personally, but i've heard of them. And for the most part i agree w/you dec. I didn't get post in your last thread on this issue but since it's brought up again i might as well. And yes, over time people will eventually lose those gains. Now, i also believe that it's up to the individual. A certain about is innevitable, while on the otherhand, i do believe that a person can keep if they're able to eat, train and rest accordingly. But it's hard to do. Hence, why we lose most, if not all gains. I'll never believe someone ran a cycle and now maintain those gains. If so, you must tell me your secret.

pete any recent bw? interested in test levels since you a fair few cycles at this stage if you care to share it

[Capebuffalo]

dec check out his thread with pics in the lifting section

judging by the pic he is clearly an expert and think he could teach you a thing or two

Thought I would help you out

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...r#.UGcIblGd6So

[yannick35]

dec check out his thread with pics in the lifting section

judging by the pic he is clearly an expert and think he could teach you a thing or two

Makes no sense doing a cycle, there is still plenty of room for improvement naturally? why do you want to do a cycle so bad? how long have you been training sorry if you mentionned theses already did not read, there are tones of OTC supplements that will work, creatine BCAA, glutamine are very good put on a bit of mass.

[DanB]

Thought I would help you out

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...r#.UGcIblGd6So

thats the one, couldnt link it on app

clearly a expert in nutrition so listen up

[DanB]

Makes no sense doing a cycle, there is still plenty of room for improvement naturally? why do you want to do a cycle so bad? how long have you been training sorry if you mentionned theses already did not read, there are tones of OTC supplements that will work, creatine BCAA, glutamine are very good put on a bit of mass.

who me?

[yannick35]

thats the one, couldnt link it on app

clearly a expert in nutrition so listen up

you are so bad danb LOL i looked like that when i was 15 actually before i actually trained...SIGH

[DanB]

you are so bad danb LOL i looked like that when i was 15 actually before i actually trained...SIGH

yup he clearly a troll

[yannick35]

who me?

no the OP DanB sorry for the confusion, its just make no sense to do a cycle when you have not reached your potential.

[yannick35]

yup he clearly a troll

Maybe not a troll just asking a question hey i passed for a troll too at once LOL

[DanB]

Maybe not a troll just asking a question hey i passed for a troll too at once LOL

thats because you are a troll

[DanB]

no the OP DanB sorry for the confusion, its just make no sense to do a cycle when you have not reached your potential.

or in rhodes's case (pretending for a second that the pic is real) he needs to start going to the gym before he starts taking steroids lol

[yannick35]

thats because you are a troll

LOL

[yannick35]

or in rhodes's case (pretending for a second that the pic is real) he needs to start going to the gym before he starts taking steroids lol

I am not one for flaming or discouraging people but sadly DanB you are right, this guy needs to hit the gym before thinking of going on cycle. At this point its ridiculous.

[Bulkn]

or in rhodes's case (pretending for a second that the pic is real) he needs to start going to the gym before he starts taking steroids lol

Looking at this other thread it looks like his pics are real and he says that he has been lifting for just over 2 months now...
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cle&highlight=

[yannick35]

Looking at this other thread it looks like his pics are real and he says that he has been lifting for just over 2 months now...
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cle&highlight=

WTF lifting over 2 months and do a cycle... OMG.......OP you need to rethink your life bro going on cycle after 2 months is completely stupid, why don't you train natural for 5-10 years build the foundation, i can tell you by experience you will lose all your gains afterward. I started training with a guy when i was 16 i saw him again at 19 he was on steroids , he never took the time to build is foundation, then i kept seeing him in different gyms over the years he was like a balloon going on steroids all the time, and sometimes not even doing a proper PCT. If you cant take the time to train naturally and build the foundation stop training its not for you, i was like in your pic when i first started training, yeah on my avatar i am a fat pig, but at some point when i was back pain free i built a good solid foundation at 212 pounds

[951thompson]

no no no i think he is lacking in his incomplete protein intake and switch to 10min workouts lol

Can we please stay on topic Dan?

Thanks Dan lol

[951thompson]

This thread is a very interesting read, I've opened a whole can of worms here haven't I lol

[951thompson]

WTF lifting over 2 months and do a cycle... OMG.......OP you need to rethink your life bro going on cycle after 2 months is completely stupid, why don't you train natural for 5-10 years build the foundation, i can tell you by experience you will lose all your gains afterward. I started training with a guy when i was 16 i saw him again at 19 he was on steroids, he never took the time to build is foundation, then i kept seeing him in different gyms over the years he was like a balloon going on steroids all the time, and sometimes not even doing a proper PCT. If you cant take the time to train naturally and build the foundation stop training its not for you, i was like in your pic when i first started training, yeah on my avatar i am a fat pig, but at some point when i was back pain free i built a good solid foundation at 212 pounds

Maybe you should go on his thread to tell him that?