Critique my second cycle, tren/test prop/var

**Deathtoll** · 12-23-2012, 01:35 PM

25 y/o, 235lbs, 6 foot, 12-14% bodyfat.

For this cycle I want to devote at least the first half of it to cutting and then transition into a clean, fat minimized bulk/gaining regimen.

Weeks 1-12: 500mg Tren /week, administered in 75mg ED
Weeks 1-12: 500mg Test Prop/week, administered in 75mg ED
Weeks 1-?: 45mg Anavar (Need advice on how to run this, I couldn't reach a decision)

How would you recommend running clen /keto on this? I read the Clen Faq (by PerfectBeast2001). Is he suggesting that with keto at 2mg nightly, I could stay on clen for even six weeks straight?

Any comments, suggestions, or critiques are greatly appreciated.

**snowman** · 12-23-2012, 01:43 PM

I would not use tren for a second cycle.... what was your first cycle?
Anavar is usually used for at least 6 weeks ( i used it for 8) you can either use it, at the beginning of the cycle or at the end... 45 mg is also to low, you need at least 60mg a day, 80mg is better....

**Deathtoll** · 12-23-2012, 01:58 PM

I've noticed a lot of people on here agree with you as far as Tren goes. My first cycle however was Test prop/tren 75mg each EOD. I got it from a buddy of mine and I had a lot of trust in him, though i agree now it wasn't the wisest decision for a first cycle (the tren). I experienced minimal if not zero neg sides, my sex drive was awesome, and i made great gains.

I'll go with the anavar at 60mg like you suggest, maybe 80 depending on what dosage I can get, and at 6 weeks.
Thanks brother.

Any more thoughts?

**snowman** · 12-23-2012, 02:30 PM

do you have anything planned for post cycle therapy ? how about hcg and ai during the cycle?
If you still going to use tren , i would finish that 2 weeks before the test...but honestly bro, you don't need Tren for now...

**Jonnyg419** · 12-23-2012, 02:40 PM

That's actually 525mg a week, just sayin ; )

**Lunk1** · 12-23-2012, 03:49 PM

cutting and bulking in one cycle requires more dedication the the average gym rat is willing to muster...I would suggest concentrating on a straight lean bulk all the way through.

What were the doses of your 1st cycle (and results)

What do you have planned for an AI, PRL control, PCT protocol?

**Deathtoll** · 12-23-2012, 05:20 PM

Good call fellas, I forgot to include HCG , AI, and then PCT.

Last time I followed HeavyIron's PCT

Quote:
"Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG eod.)

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses

10g creatine daily"

I followed that PCT first cycle, with the lower end of the HCG (I used HCG during cycle), and I had awesome natural testosterone recovery. I did not do any bloodwork but my sex drive, gym motivation, and mood were all great during the PCT and then afterwards. I can think of two or three days during the PCT where I felt a little off, and just ONE time where I couldn't get it up for my girlfriend lmao.

Last cycle like I think I mentioned above was Prop/Tren 75mg each EOD. It was several months ago and I don't have my log book hanging around, but my bench press, lat, and mid back strength sored. I made good gains everywhere else, all while losing BF%. I think I stayed roughly the same weight but dropped a few % bodyfat.

During cycle I ran HCG every third day at 500ius.. planning similar structure for this cycle. I did not run an AI first cycle, but will be running aromasin throughout this cycle. First cycle I used tamoxifen EOD at 1mL (i think 1mg as well).

**Deathtoll** · 12-23-2012, 05:44 PM

Correction" first cycle was 250ius every three days (HCG )

**Deathtoll** · 12-23-2012, 05:54 PM

Let me make this easier for everyone now that I've added info:

Weeks 1-12: Test Prop/Tren 75mg each ED
Weeks 1-12: Aromasin 10mg ED
Weeks 1-8: HCG 250ius E3D
Weeks 9-12: HCG 500ius E3D

Also includes Anavar at 60-80 (depending on the amt I can get) mgs ED for 6 weeks (I may use this to bridge cycle and PCT, which I've heard a lot of good results from people about, so it'd be weeks 9-14.)
The only issue I have with this is that first cycle, I started PCT on day 1 and was using HCG day 1-16 simultaneously with exem and clomid, using the latter two for 4 weeks [info on this below]. Is it really best to wait two weeks before starting a PCT?
Clen and Keto - I'm still researching the dosages (any recommendations?)

PCT:
HeavyIron's
"Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG eod.)

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses

10g creatine daily"

**stpete** · 12-23-2012, 06:41 PM

8-10 weeks should be sufficient imo.

I only need 250iu's e3d of HCG to PCT.

You should use Nolva w/your Clomid for your PCT.

And for your clen question, PerfectBeast2001 definitely knows his stuff( i always liked to follow his logs) but you have to remember that he's a very experienced AAS user and maybe his doses might not be typical for the average user or beginner. I haven't read the thread you speak of but you need to do more research on that. I can't help as i don't like running that stuff.

Good Luck

**losieloos** · 12-23-2012, 07:47 PM

^ what he said

**Lunk1** · 12-23-2012, 08:11 PM

If your dead set on runnibg tren ..I'd like to see this whole thing simplified!

1-8 test P .25mg ED (175mg EW)
1-8 tren A .75mg ED (525mg EW) this could be dropped to 400mg EW and still be just as effective and perhaps less sides!
1-8 aromasin 12.5mg EOD
1-8 HCG 250mg X 2 per week
1-8 Caber or Prami ON HAND!
PCT 3 days after last pin
Nolva 40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50/50

Any other supps you choose are up to you!

**Deathtoll** · 12-24-2012, 11:18 AM

Thank you guys for the awesome feedback. Every newbie on here is lucky to have such a knowledgeable forum to help us out.

With the Nolva and Clomid for PCT, do I need to run any aromasin PCT?

Lunk1: with the Caber on Prami, which do you prefer?
What is the primary reason you suggest having it on hand? Does any kind of prolactin side like low libido call for its use? What dosage do you recommend.

Also, I am basically stuck with a 75/75 (150 total per 1mL) Prop/Tren MIX, instead of separate vials.
Would you guys approve 60/60 mg ED (0.8mL) of test prop/tren to lower sides? (420 total)

**Deathtoll** · 12-24-2012, 11:19 AM

I will stick with the 250iu's as you all suggest. Thanks fellas.

It'll be a few weeks before I'll be getting any clen , so I'm going to make sure to continue my research on it. I don't wanna **** that one up LOL.

**Lunk1** · 12-24-2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Deathtoll

Thank you guys for the awesome feedback. Every newbie on here is lucky to have such a knowledgeable forum to help us out.

With the Nolva and Clomid for PCT, do I need to run any aromasin PCT? Nope...drop it day before PCT

Lunk1: with the Caber on Prami, which do you prefer? I prefer Caber if ya can get it..less issues with sides. Again only needed on hand incase prolactin isnt controled by the AI (which it will be)
What is the primary reason you suggest having it on hand? Does any kind of prolactin side like low libido call for its use? What dosage do you recommend.

Also, I am basically stuck with a 75/75 (150 total per 1mL) Prop/Tren MIX, instead of separate vials.
Would you guys approve 60/60 mg ED (0.8mL) of test prop/tren to lower sides? (420 total)

60/60 This is a great first tren dose!!!!

**PEWN** · 12-24-2012, 11:46 AM

I find that I get more sides " bad acne, and sweats " if I run test at the same dosage as tren . I always like to run tren at a higher dosage than test. Yet, I never run tren at extreme dosages like I have other compounds like npp. It just makes me feel terrible. Just find it has less sides.