Anavar is NOT a mild compound where HPTA suppression/shutdown is concerned!!

[slimshady01]

A,

I plan on running Var and 200 test "my trt dose" over the spring summer months at 100mg a day along with TUDCA.

I have 150 caps 50mg a piece.. Would 75 days be to long to run var straight.. Ive done it before but at 50mg with no problems, had blood work done 2 months later and all was perfect.

[Atomini]

No, 75 days (approx 10 weeks) is fine. I have personally run Anavar for 12 weeks before at 100mg/day (the first 8 of those 12 weeks I used TUDCA but you should never run more than 8 weeks of TUDCA or else it will negatively impact cholesterol profiles). So you're good to go, with the only suggestion being reduce Testosterone to 100mg/week. Anything above 100mg/week of Testosterone is NOT a normal physiological level that would constitute TRT doses. The human body on its own endogenously manufactures about 50 - 70mg per week on its own.

[slimshady01]

No, 75 days (approx 10 weeks) is fine. I have personally run Anavar for 12 weeks before at 100mg/day (the first 8 of those 12 weeks I used TUDCA but you should never run more than 8 weeks of TUDCA or else it will negatively impact cholesterol profiles). So you're good to go, with the only suggestion being reduce Testosterone to 100mg/week. Anything above 100mg/week of Testosterone is NOT a normal physiological level that would constitute TRT doses. The human body on its own endogenously manufactures about 50 - 70mg per week on its own.

Thanks Atomini...

Ill try the 100mg a week.. But god that will be hard but honestly my body probably needs a break from the higher lvls as I've been on very long blasting and cruising.. I just fear that ugl is not as perfectly dosed as true pharma That being said I wouldn't want my 100mg of test being 75 etc...

Why is it that some guys I know on true TRT through their endos are on 150-200mg a which only puts them in the normal high range... Where as others it may put in the high out of range..

I think I will get blood work done a few weeks into a 100mg of test a week and see where this puts my total test.

If I was to pin once a week on a Monday what day would be best to get my test taken.

Sorry to get off topic.. but thanks again you the man.

on a good side I wont need a AI and I wont be retaining any water while on that low of test and my Anavar .

[Atomini]

Thanks Atomini...

Ill try the 100mg a week.. But god that will be hard but honestly my body probably needs a break from the higher lvls as I've been on very long blasting and cruising.. I just fear that ugl is not as perfectly dosed as true pharma That being said I wouldn't want my 100mg of test being 75 etc...

Why is it that some guys I know on true TRT through their endos are on 150-200mg a which only puts them in the normal high range... Where as others it may put in the high out of range..

I think I will get blood work done a few weeks into a 100mg of test a week and see where this puts my total test.

If I was to pin once a week on a Monday what day would be best to get my test taken.

Sorry to get off topic.. but thanks again you the man.

on a good side I wont need a AI and I wont be retaining any water while on that low of test and my Anavar.

Hmm what ester Testosterone you using? I think you forgot to mention which one. I'm assuming since you said pinning on Monday, you're using Cypionate or Enanthate ? If so, then after a Monday pin, i'd get bloodwork done either Tuesday or Wednesday. Wednesday would probably be best. Blood plasma levels peak pretty quickly despite it being a long ester.

Why is it that some guys I know on true TRT through their endos are on 150-200mg a which only puts them in the normal high range... Where as others it may put in the high out of range..

Reason why is simple: we don't live in a perfect world.

There is always a wasteage factor and such involved. Here are some of the prime reasons as to why one dose of Testosterone might not affect everyone's blood plasma levels the same way:

- Not all medicines, supplements, and drugs are accurately dosed down to the T. Even pharmaceutical grade producs will always be either slightly above or slightly below the stated dose. Remember, we don't live in a perfect world.
- There will always be some gear that doesn't get completely through from the syringe into the body. This is what I meant by 'wasteage factor'. It's like anything, you're never going to get 100% yield from anything, there will always be some loss. Once again, this isn't a perfect world.
- Some people's bodies respond differently. Plain and simple.
- The ester weight must be considered in the equation. The heaveri/longer the ester, the more % of a given mg of Testosterone will be taken up by the ester, leaving in reality much less Testosterone than you think is going to be injected. I talked about this in my thread on esters. While you think you may be injecting 100mg of Testosterone Cypionate , you might actually be getting 75mg in reality (this is why I always say 100mg is closer to a TRT dose, because of the amounts I mentioned the human body manufactures naturally come close considering the factors of wasteage, inaccuracies in dosing, and ester weight). Testosterone Propionate , because its ester is much shorter and ligher, allows more mg to be occupied by Testosterone than the longer estered variants.

I know it sounds depressing/sad, but the truth is you are never really getting as much AAS into your body as you think you are. There is always some loss. With that being said, don't fall into thinking that you're actually losing giant significant amounts. It's small, but small enough that TRT doses will show a notable difference.

[slimshady01]

great post..

Yes I will be running Cyp with my Var and will go with a once a week pin since I am used to EOD recently with prop so it will be a nice change.

And I will shoot for a WED blood test to see where I am at and gauge from there.

Thanks again

[Metalject]

Metalject,

Correct. However, now we are splitting hairs here. The problem with splitting hairs in topics like these is that kids and inexperienced users will grab any possible excuse they can find to justify running an improper Anavar -only cycle at bodybuilding doses. All anabolic steroids cause HPTA suppression/shutdown to varying degrees. The fact is that a 40% reduction in blood plasma Testosterone levels is significant. So is 66%. And if a study demonstrated a 20% reduction, I would still consider that a significant enough amount of suppression to warrant a warning to people as well.

Fact of the matter is that a 40% or greater reduction in endogenous Testosterone secretion is not healthy for the body, and I don't believe it is valid justification for running Anavar on its own.

I agree, no need to forgo exogenous testosterone . And I understand what you're saying, I understand why people tend to want to show things a certain way in order to discourage younger guys. I'm just not one of those guys. I like for things to be presented black and white, no persuasion just hard info. From there people can make an educated decision and if they're too stupid to make an educated decision based on black and white info there's very little hope for them anyway. In this case, yep it's suppressive and can be significantly so...with bodybuilding doses it will always be significantly so. However, it's still milder than most, that's the black and white truth. Anyway, hopefully what I'm trying to say is understandable, lol!

[Atomini]

I agree, no need to forgo exogenous testosterone. And I understand what you're saying, I understand why people tend to want to show things a certain way in order to discourage younger guys. I'm just not one of those guys. I like for things to be presented black and white, no persuasion just hard info. From there people can make an educated decision and if they're too stupid to make an educated decision based on black and white info there's very little hope for them anyway. In this case, yep it's suppressive and can be significantly so...with bodybuilding doses it will always be significantly so. However, it's still milder than most, that's the black and white truth. Anyway, hopefully what I'm trying to say is understandable, lol!

I'm totally with you on that point, my friend. I agree with presenting data simply as data in a neutral perspective. But I think that when it comes to clinical data as it pertains to AAS use, we have to then look at this stuff in a particular context and interpret the data in a particular manner. If something causes X% amount of endogenous Testosterone suppression, we should take that into consideration as to how it would affect the way we use it or cycle with it.

[johnnymctrance]

Great post

[MickeyKnox]

Bump..

[Times Roman]

Agree.

"Mild" is used to describe it's liver toxicity, AND as a comparative to other orals when it comes to strength/size gains.

But it will shut down your natty test production, same as any other steroid .

Up to a certain daily dose, it will only partially shut you down. beyond that, natty test production is a memory..............

[c eastwood]

Atomini,
This was a very educational post.
Thank you.

[webb459]

I've been meaning to share this information with you all for a couple weeks now, but i've been pretty busy with the holidays and what not.

Anyhow, my personal research as well as my university studies have lead me to some interesting information on Anavar and its effects on HPTA suppression, and the real hard truth behind it. Anavar has always been touted as a very 'mild' compound. For the most part, it is. But too many people have for decades been using the world 'mild' to describe every effect and aspect of this compound. Anavar is NOT 'mild' in the realm of HPTA function, nor is it 'mild' in terms of its anabolic effects (it is actually quite the powerful anabolic steroid , perhaps more so than Anadrol in fact), however that's a story for another day. The focus of my quick post here is Anavar's effects on the HPTA since that is one of the most expounded descriptions of one of the areas Anavar is frequently said to be 'mild' in. Well, i'm here to tell you all that this is absolutely not the case. Anavar is just as suppressive as any anabolic steroid out there in existance.

In my program, shortly before the Christmas break, we actually covered Anavar!!! I was extremely excited (and surprised) to see that here in a pre-med university program, we're actually covering (albeit very briefly) an anabolic steroid and its effects on the endocrine system. As anyone familiar with life-sciences programs and med school programs knows, there is no such thing as an 'anabolic steroid' course or class. So I was pretty ecstatic, even though this was very brief. We covered some of its actions in muscle tissue and other tissues, we covered its medical applications and its beneficial results in patients suffering from trauma and its use as an osteoperosis medication. A guest speaker covered most of this with us, who is a former proffessor and is a current MD involved in research in the Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism. After everything was over, I had a chance to speak to him and ask him to share/exchange information concerning Anavar and such. Of course the guy is very busy and had only a half hour to spare with me, which I thought was very generous of him. So we discussed a whole ton of AAS-related topics, of which 30 minutes was just not enough time, and man was I blown away. But where Anavar is concerned, he told me quite a few eye-opening details, and provided me with a bunch of clinical studies to investigate for my own personal amusement.

It seems as though Anavar is commonly labelled by all of the gym bros for decades as 'mildly' suppressive to the HPTA, but there is only a sliver of truth to this. This seems to only be the case with the absolute lowest of medical prescription doses (such as 5mg daily administered to children). Bodybuilding doses, which is what we are all concerned with here, is a whole different ball game and in studies demonstrate very strong suppression of endogenous Testosterone production. The most prominent study I saw was one involving 6 young male test subjects that were administered Anavar had shown that after only 5 days of Anavar administration (at only 15mg/day), the Testosterone levels ofthese 6 subjects dropped DRASTICALLY by day 5 from 449ng/dl to 282ng/dl - a 37% reduction of Testosterone in just 5 days(1). That is a massive drop after such a small period of time at a dose that isn't even considered a 'bodybuilding' dose. If this is what Anavar does at 15mg daily after 5 days of use, ask yourself what bodybuilding doses (30mg MINIMUM daily of Anavar) for weeks will end up doing?

This is a graph from the study conducted. It demonstrates total androgen concentration showing total serum Testosterone (lined areas) and Oxandrolone (black areas) concentrations in five young men on days 0, 3, and 5, Testosterone decreased significantly from days 0 and 3 to day 5 (P < 0.05).

- The first point i'm making of this post is to show all of you newcomers and youngsters here who are under the age of 24 that Anavar is NOT a safe or 'mild' choice to engage in. It very well has the potential for the same amount of shutdown as a Testosterone cycle as far as I am concerned. So if you think that attempting an Anavar-only cycle for your first cycle is going to save you from any potential permanent HPTA problems later on in life, think again!

- The second point i'm making here is to show that Anavar-only cycles are destructive to the body without the inclusion of some form of Testosterone. Anavar necessitates the use of Testosterone in at least a TRT dose in order to maintain normal physiological function in the presence of a suppressed/shutdown HPTA as a result of Anavar use. Will you die if you do an Anavar-only cycle? No. But it's not optimal or healthy for the body, and can cause issues (both noticeable and un-noticeable) when your endogenous production of Testosterone bottoms out.

There exists no 'perfect anabolic steroid', but Anavar is perhaps the anabolic steroid that has come the closest to the 'perfect steroid' - but the point here it that is NOT 'perfect' by any means and still possesses its flaws.

REFERENCES:
1. Short-Term Oxandrolone Administration Stimulates Net Muscle Protein Synthesis in Young Men. Melinda Sheffield-Moore, Randall J. Urban, Steven E. Wolf, J. Jiang, Don H. Catlin, David N. Herndon, Robert R. Wolfe and Arny A. Ferrando. Sheffield-Moore et al. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. August 1, 1999; 84 (8): 2705

Hey Atomini,

I'm new to this whole anavar thing. I haven't started takin it, however I was planning on doing my first cycle right away here. Just var. What are the implications of the reduction of testosterone? I've heard this can cause infertility, but that that is also easily fixed? What dose should I start with and should I be using something with it? And how long should my first cycle be? I've been reading through as many threads as possible trying to learn more. Please help!

[ElectraMaddox]

Hey Atomini,

I'm new to this whole anavar thing. I haven't started takin it, however I was planning on doing my first cycle right away here. Just var. What are the implications of the reduction of testosterone? I've heard this can cause infertility, but that that is also easily fixed? What dose should I start with and should I be using something with it? And how long should my first cycle be? I've been reading through as many threads as possible trying to learn more. Please help!

Just an FYI everyone is going to want your stats,
diet with macros. height, age, weight, years training, est bodyfat, goals etc
if that's not in check you'll get guided their first...
If you're under 25 you prob won't get much advice
if your goals are attainable through lifting they'll guide you into the workout section if all that's in check they'll most likely tell you to run test with anavar and have PCT in check.... If you don't know what that is dont take the anavar until you learn all that stuff...

good luck

[Atomini]

Hey Atomini,

I'm new to this whole anavar thing. I haven't started takin it, however I was planning on doing my first cycle right away here. Just var. What are the implications of the reduction of testosterone? I've heard this can cause infertility, but that that is also easily fixed? What dose should I start with and should I be using something with it? And how long should my first cycle be? I've been reading through as many threads as possible trying to learn more. Please help!

ElextraMaddox hit the nail right on the head. We need more information before being able to properly assess and advise your situation.

However, I will say this: your idea of using Anavar only is a bad one and is borderline absurd. Why are you electing to do an Anavar-only cycle? Fear of needles? Well, you're going to have to get over that if that is the case (and it usually is 95% of the time with those who wish to start with oral-only cycles. The exogenous Anavar that you are administering will totally shut down your body's own endogenous Testosterone production. This means that the essential and vital bodily functions that Testosterone and its metabolites govern are now being severely compromised. Now, you might ask the question "well, won't the Anavar take over for those functions? And won't it be better since Anavar is more advantageous in certain aspects than Testosterone?". The answer is: NO!

While Anavar might be more convenient to take, it might be considered "mild" in terms of its side effects, and while it might be unable to aromatize, that's all it pretty much has going for it. Anavar is a DHT derivative with strong anabolic effects - it is not a proper androgen for normal bodily function. And when I say 'normal bodily function', i'm talking about far more than your libido or fertility here. The human body and endocrine system is not that simple. Testosterone is vital for proper libido function, it is a regulator of cognitive and physical energy, it regulates the population of thromboxane A2 receptors on megakaryocytes and platelets and hence platelet aggregation in humans, it is essential for proper mental and psychological function, and MANY MANY more functions and I cannot list all of them here. Just because Anavar (or ANY other anabolic steroid ) is 'better than' Testosterone in one or two areas does not mean that it is better than it in every single aspect and function. Anavar does jack shit in many of those physiological functions that Testosterone governs.

This is why you require at least a normal physological level of Testosterone in your body during ANY cycle of ANYTHING.

[Metalject]

OK, this ^^^^^ (previous two replays) is the type of thing I've eluded to before. Now I'm not trying to be difficult, and before I go further let's try to remember posting on a message board is often like sending a text message...often the tone of voice can be lost or misinterpreted. My point, webb459 asked some very basic questions, regardless of what his stats are the answers to these questions will always be the same.

Here's a hypothetical example:

A new guy comes to a message board and ask any of the following questions:

*Is Anavar toxic to the liver?
*What's the difference in testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate ? What about Sustanon ?
*I'm a little concerned about my cholesterol, which steroids are the most cholesterol friendly?
*Why is Tren so androgenic ?
*I'm thinking about taking Dianabol but can it cause water retention?

Now take any of those questions and whoever ask them his stats will not mean crap when it comes to the answers. If he's 5'5" of 6'5" the answers will be the same. Even if his 23 or 53 the answers to those questions are still the same. Hormones and how they function do not change because of someone's stats. Same goes for diet and training....if I eat like garbage and train like a retard Trenbolone is still the same Trenbolone and functions in the same way as if I ate perfectly and trained like a world class athlete.

Anyway, I realize I'm ranting and that some will think I'm purposely being difficult but I'm not trying to be. It's kind of like a common almost unconscious attitude on many message boards is to give people as little info as possible until you (you not meaning anyone in particular) think they're ready for more information. It's like some believe they're holding precious information that they'll only hand out when they believe someone has earned it. It's kind of a pompous arrogant attitude and steroid .com is well-known for it. Anyway, it does get under my skin a little.

[webb459]

ElextraMaddox hit the nail right on the head. We need more information before being able to properly assess and advise your situation.

However, I will say this: your idea of using Anavar only is a bad one and is borderline absurd. Why are you electing to do an Anavar-only cycle? Fear of needles? Well, you're going to have to get over that if that is the case (and it usually is 95% of the time with those who wish to start with oral-only cycles. The exogenous Anavar that you are administering will totally shut down your body's own endogenous Testosterone production. This means that the essential and vital bodily functions that Testosterone and its metabolites govern are now being severely compromised. Now, you might ask the question "well, won't the Anavar take over for those functions? And won't it be better since Anavar is more advantageous in certain aspects than Testosterone?". The answer is: NO!

While Anavar might be more convenient to take, it might be considered "mild" in terms of its side effects, and while it might be unable to aromatize, that's all it pretty much has going for it. Anavar is a DHT derivative with strong anabolic effects - it is not a proper androgen for normal bodily function. And when I say 'normal bodily function', i'm talking about far more than your libido or fertility here. The human body and endocrine system is not that simple. Testosterone is vital for proper libido function, it is a regulator of cognitive and physical energy, it regulates the population of thromboxane A2 receptors on megakaryocytes and platelets and hence platelet aggregation in humans, it is essential for proper mental and psychological function, and MANY MANY more functions and I cannot list all of them here. Just because Anavar (or ANY other anabolic steroid ) is 'better than' Testosterone in one or two areas does not mean that it is better than it in every single aspect and function. Anavar does jack shit in many of those physiological functions that Testosterone governs.

This is why you require at least a normal physological level of Testosterone in your body during ANY cycle of ANYTHING.

Atomini,

It was never a fear of needles. It's simply the simplicity and accessibility. I was given advice from a friend who did a var cycle to start and he ended up getting into injections shortly there after. He said it was a good place to start. Like I said, I know very little about Anabolics and just steroids in general. I'm learning as much as possible. I've done my homework, I've researched a lot. However, everyone has their own opinions and I'm looking for straight facts. As far as my stats, well they are all messed up right now. I just got out of the field with the military and therefore my diet and sleeping habits have gone to shit. And I've lost a solid 15 lbs. So, currently I am 5'8" and 140lbs. I'm 25 years old. And I understand how to eat and diet. I understand protein intake, carbs, lipids etc. My gf is a dietician. I've been legitimately training since I was 18 but was always active in the gym and other sports before then. My goals, I need strength, speed, agility. I need it all. I'm applying for spec ops and was hoping to find something to give me that edge over the competition. I'm not looking for someone to judge me. I'm looking for facts and kind assistance that will help me in my way.

Thanks guys. I look forward to hearing from you all.

[BBJT200]

OK, this ^^^^^ (previous two replays) is the type of thing I've eluded to before. Now I'm not trying to be difficult, and before I go further let's try to remember posting on a message board is often like sending a text message...often the tone of voice can be lost or misinterpreted. My point, webb459 asked some very basic questions, regardless of what his stats are the answers to these questions will always be the same.

Here's a hypothetical example:

A new guy comes to a message board and ask any of the following questions:

*Is Anavar toxic to the liver?
*What's the difference in testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate ? What about Sustanon ?
*I'm a little concerned about my cholesterol, which steroids are the most cholesterol friendly?
*Why is Tren so androgenic ?
*I'm thinking about taking Dianabol but can it cause water retention?

Now take any of those questions and whoever ask them his stats will not mean crap when it comes to the answers. If he's 5'5" of 6'5" the answers will be the same. Even if his 23 or 53 the answers to those questions are still the same. Hormones and how they function do not change because of someone's stats. Same goes for diet and training....if I eat like garbage and train like a retard Trenbolone is still the same Trenbolone and functions in the same way as if I ate perfectly and trained like a world class athlete.

Anyway, I realize I'm ranting and that some will think I'm purposely being difficult but I'm not trying to be. It's kind of like a common almost unconscious attitude on many message boards is to give people as little info as possible until you (you not meaning anyone in particular) think they're ready for more information. It's like some believe they're holding precious information that they'll only hand out when they believe someone has earned it. It's kind of a pompous arrogant attitude and steroid.com is well-known for it. Anyway, it does get under my skin a little.

I agree with you here 100%, and it drives me nuts.

[Atomini]

OK, this ^^^^^ (previous two replays) is the type of thing I've eluded to before. Now I'm not trying to be difficult, and before I go further let's try to remember posting on a message board is often like sending a text message...often the tone of voice can be lost or misinterpreted. My point, webb459 asked some very basic questions, regardless of what his stats are the answers to these questions will always be the same.

Here's a hypothetical example:

A new guy comes to a message board and ask any of the following questions:

*Is Anavar toxic to the liver?
*What's the difference in testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate ? What about Sustanon ?
*I'm a little concerned about my cholesterol, which steroids are the most cholesterol friendly?
*Why is Tren so androgenic ?
*I'm thinking about taking Dianabol but can it cause water retention?

Now take any of those questions and whoever ask them his stats will not mean crap when it comes to the answers. If he's 5'5" of 6'5" the answers will be the same. Even if his 23 or 53 the answers to those questions are still the same. Hormones and how they function do not change because of someone's stats. Same goes for diet and training....if I eat like garbage and train like a retard Trenbolone is still the same Trenbolone and functions in the same way as if I ate perfectly and trained like a world class athlete.

Anyway, I realize I'm ranting and that some will think I'm purposely being difficult but I'm not trying to be. It's kind of like a common almost unconscious attitude on many message boards is to give people as little info as possible until you (you not meaning anyone in particular) think they're ready for more information. It's like some believe they're holding precious information that they'll only hand out when they believe someone has earned it. It's kind of a pompous arrogant attitude and steroid.com is well-known for it. Anyway, it does get under my skin a little.

Make no mistake, I TOTALLY agree with everything you just said. After all, I did answer his question directly, did I not?

The reason why I mentioned goals and stats is simply because when someone decides to use a particular anabolic steroid , it can be because they are mistaken in thinking that that particular anabolic steroid will be best suited for their particular goals when in reality, it isn't. How many times have people elected to use something like Winstrol -only because they said they just wanted to gain lean mass and cut up a bit at the same time? Testosterone can be used for that as well. This particular fellow here asked about the risks of using Anavar-only on endogenous Testosterone levels . It would help to know WHY he wanted to use Anavar in such a manner, and that is why I aaked that question in my post. But I did answer his question in the end, and in proper full detail. I am absolutely no fan of withholding information or advice without first getting the person's stats. Like you, I feel that stats or no stats the question should be answered because hormonal effects are no different between individuals.

Atomini,

It was never a fear of needles. It's simply the simplicity and accessibility. I was given advice from a friend who did a var cycle to start and he ended up getting into injections shortly there after. He said it was a good place to start. Like I said, I know very little about Anabolics and just steroids in general. I'm learning as much as possible. I've done my homework, I've researched a lot. However, everyone has their own opinions and I'm looking for straight facts. As far as my stats, well they are all messed up right now. I just got out of the field with the military and therefore my diet and sleeping habits have gone to shit. And I've lost a solid 15 lbs. So, currently I am 5'8" and 140lbs. I'm 25 years old. And I understand how to eat and diet. I understand protein intake, carbs, lipids etc. My gf is a dietician. I've been legitimately training since I was 18 but was always active in the gym and other sports before then. My goals, I need strength, speed, agility. I need it all. I'm applying for spec ops and was hoping to find something to give me that edge over the competition. I'm not looking for someone to judge me. I'm looking for facts and kind assistance that will help me in my way.

Thanks guys. I look forward to hearing from you all.

Keep doing your research, you'll get there eventually. When you do wrap your head around the idea of injectables like any form of Testosterone, you'll see that it is actually more simple and convenient, especially with long entered compounds. For example, 2x weekly injections are far more convenient than having to lug around pills everyday all day, dosing them multiple times per day.

[webb459]

Make no mistake, I TOTALLY agree with everything you just said. After all, I did answer his question directly, did I not?

The reason why I mentioned goals and stats is simply because when someone decides to use a particular anabolic steroid , it can be because they are mistaken in thinking that that particular anabolic steroid will be best suited for their particular goals when in reality, it isn't. How many times have people elected to use something like Winstrol -only because they said they just wanted to gain lean mass and cut up a bit at the same time? Testosterone can be used for that as well. This particular fellow here asked about the risks of using Anavar -only on endogenous Testosterone levels . It would help to know WHY he wanted to use Anavar in such a manner, and that is why I aaked that question in my post. But I did answer his question in the end, and in proper full detail. I am absolutely no fan of withholding information or advice without first getting the person's stats. Like you, I feel that stats or no stats the question should be answered because hormonal effects are no different between individuals.

Keep doing your research, you'll get there eventually. When you do wrap your head around the idea of injectables like any form of Testosterone, you'll see that it is actually more simple and convenient, especially with long entered compounds. For example, 2x weekly injections are far more convenient than having to lug around pills everyday all day, dosing them multiple times per day.

I'm looking at doing an 8 week cycle at 80mg/day. Should I start a PCT right after that cycle? I plan on doing another cycle beginning in July as I want to complete a second cycle just before the SOF selection phase begins late August. Or should I just wait to do the PCT until after the second cycle? I'm looking at Nolvadex , is that a good PCT and where can I get it?

[webb459]

I'm also considering using pGH. Is this at all worthwhile when using var? Or is that even a good combination?

[Atomini]

I'm looking at doing an 8 week cycle at 80mg/day. Should I start a PCT right after that cycle? I plan on doing another cycle beginning in July as I want to complete a second cycle just before the SOF selection phase begins late August. Or should I just wait to do the PCT until after the second cycle? I'm looking at Nolvadex, is that a good PCT and where can I get it?

I would suggest creating a separate thread for this, you will get more responses by doing that.

[AnabolicDoc]

I've known a few ppl who've done Anavar only cycles. With the exception of the one person who doesn't seem to shutdown from exogenous androgens and doesn't really need a PCT (or do one I think) - and he makes great gains at about 50mg of Anavar a day, which I have a hard time wrapping my head around - everyone else ends up losing any small gains they've made. And they ended up with a lengthy PCT bc they didn't think they needed HCG while taking the Anavar only.

It's just a bad idea and waste of money. If you're going to do it at least run a subq TRT protocol do the needles won't be a big deal. Either way, if you do proceed plz use hcg low dose a few times a week and do PCT.

[romanos83539]

Great post and discussion.... looking forward to hear more on the subjects

[Wtgrantham]

Yes, I implore you and anyone else to reference this thread/information to those common posts you always see about Anavar being 'mild', especially the posts made by kids who think that using Anavar because it's 'mild' will prevent any potential HPTA damage.



I always advocate a TRT dose with anything and everything if you're stacking stuff with Testosterone. There are several benefits to doing this, such as controlling Estrogen without the use of an AI, and allowing yourself to see the sole benefits from the primary anabolic you are using as opposed to Testosterone. I have nothing against using higher doses of Testosterone (such as 500mg weekly) stacked with other things like Anavar, but you must be aware that with the higher dose of Testosterone, you are going to have more aromatization and you will have to be prepared to take the steps necessary to deal with that.

This was the approach I was taking, running my TRT dose of 60 mg subq twice a week where my estrogen ran in the low 30s with no AI then I started taking 50 mg anavar every day and had a blood test 10 days in. Guess what? My estrogen had skyrocketed up into the 70s. Completely unexpected to me as my estrogen was under control and anavar does not aromatize. What I theorize is that since anavar is a DHT derivative it stopped my test from turning into DHT and my body recognized it as having too much testosterone so it all started aromatizing to estrodiol. I immediately started an AI and some Nolva but had a hard time getting on top of it so I stopped the anavar. Next time I will start an AI right away.

[slimshady01]

This was the approach I was taking, running my TRT dose of 60 mg subq twice a week where my estrogen ran in the low 30s with no AI then I started taking 50 mg anavar every day and had a blood test 10 days in. Guess what? My estrogen had skyrocketed up into the 70s. Completely unexpected to me as my estrogen was under control and anavar does not aromatize. What I theorize is that since anavar is a DHT derivative it stopped my test from turning into DHT and my body recognized it as having too much testosterone so it all started aromatizing to estrodiol. I immediately started an AI and some Nolva but had a hard time getting on top of it so I stopped the anavar. Next time I will start an AI right away.

Interesting post.

[Atomini]

This was the approach I was taking, running my TRT dose of 60 mg subq twice a week where my estrogen ran in the low 30s with no AI then I started taking 50 mg anavar every day and had a blood test 10 days in. Guess what? My estrogen had skyrocketed up into the 70s. Completely unexpected to me as my estrogen was under control and anavar does not aromatize. What I theorize is that since anavar is a DHT derivative it stopped my test from turning into DHT and my body recognized it as having too much testosterone so it all started aromatizing to estrodiol. I immediately started an AI and some Nolva but had a hard time getting on top of it so I stopped the anavar. Next time I will start an AI right away.

Right off the bat i'll say that your hypothesis doesn't sound like it makes any sense to me since that isn't exactly how the HPTA works. The body doesn't recognize DHT levels and try to compensate by blocking/preventing 5AR activity and instead increasing aromatase activity to compensate. That isn't how things work. I think there are other factors at play that you haven't deduced logically before coming to a proper conclusion. Instead, you seem to just be jumping to conclusions here that are furthermore incorrect in regards to how the endocrine system works. Reduction of Testosterone into DHT occurs only in specific tissues where there is increased 5AR activity (prostate, skin, scalp, and other select tissues). Same thing with aromatization and aromatase. I have a few questions first in regards to ruling out any other possible factors, though:

1. Was the Anavar you used pharmaceutical grade or UGL?
2. Was the Testosterone you used pharmaceutical grade or UGL?
3. Is this TRT prescribed, or self-administered TRT?
4. How long were you on TRT before throwing Anavar into the picture?
5. Any other substances administered aside from Testosterone and/or Anavar?

[Wtgrantham]

Right off the bat i'll say that your hypothesis doesn't sound like it makes any sense to me since that isn't exactly how the HPTA works. The body doesn't recognize DHT levels and try to compensate by blocking/preventing 5AR activity and instead increasing aromatase activity to compensate. That isn't how things work. I think there are other factors at play that you haven't deduced logically before coming to a proper conclusion. Instead, you seem to just be jumping to conclusions here that are furthermore incorrect in regards to how the endocrine system works. Reduction of Testosterone into DHT occurs only in specific tissues where there is increased 5AR activity (prostate, skin, scalp, and other select tissues). Same thing with aromatization and aromatase. I have a few questions first in regards to ruling out any other possible factors, though:

1. Was the Anavar you used pharmaceutical grade or UGL?
2. Was the Testosterone you used pharmaceutical grade or UGL?
3. Is this TRT prescribed, or self-administered TRT?
4. How long were you on TRT before throwing Anavar into the picture?
5. Any other substances administered aside from Testosterone and/or Anavar?

Not trying to be an "expert" on the endocrine system with my theory, just trying to make some sense of it.
1 anavar was UGL
2 test is Cyp and pharm
3 TRT is Dr prescribed
4 probably about 7 or 8 months on TRT completely locked in except RBC production hard to control, donating blood once per month and still not keeping it down
5. No other substances except supplements, fish oil, multi, zinc, magnesium, DHEA, D3, HCG

With no better explanation maybe the anavar is not anavar?
Was on the anavar for about 17 days before I stopped and really wasn't feeling like I was getting any results from it so didn't really mind stopping. No vascularity change no real strength increase.
Liver enzymes were elevated after 10 days on the blood work

[Atomini]

Not trying to be an "expert" on the endocrine system with my theory, just trying to make some sense of it.
1 anavar was UGL
2 test is Cyp and pharm
3 TRT is Dr prescribed
4 probably about 7 or 8 months on TRT completely locked in except RBC production hard to control, donating blood once per month and still not keeping it down
5. No other substances except supplements, fish oil, multi, zinc, magnesium, DHEA, D3, HCG

With no better explanation maybe the anavar is not anavar?
Was on the anavar for about 17 days before I stopped and really wasn't feeling like I was getting any results from it so didn't really mind stopping. No vascularity change no real strength increase.
Liver enzymes were elevated after 10 days on the blood work

The Anavar was DEFINITELY not Anavar. It is common knowledge that 85% of UGLs do not put Anavar in their Anavar. Usually they will either just put Dianabol in, or put Dianabol with a low dose of Arimidex in the tablets to simulate Anavar. Unless you get your UGl Anavar tested in a lab, there is no way of knowing, and the UGL can do whatever they want and tell you the product is whatever they put on the label. It makes sense considering your Estrogen skyrocketed as soon as you took the Anavar. Real Anavar does not do that in any way, shape, or form. You probably had something else in those tablets. What it really was is anyone's guess, but these are the facts of the UGL world.

DHEA is also known to raise Estrogen levels, but I am willing to bet money that it was the supposed Anavar.

Please see this thread, it will open your eyes to the truth in regards to UGL products: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=black+market

[Bonaparte]

The Anavar was DEFINITELY not Anavar. It is common knowledge that 85% of UGLs do not put Anavar in their Anavar. Usually they will either just put Dianabol in, or put Dianabol with a low dose of Arimidex in the tablets to simulate Anavar. Unless you get your UGl Anavar tested in a lab, there is no way of knowing, and the UGL can do whatever they want and tell you the product is whatever they put on the label. It makes sense considering your Estrogen skyrocketed as soon as you took the Anavar. Real Anavar does not do that in any way, shape, or form. You probably had something else in those tablets. What it really was is anyone's guess, but these are the facts of the UGL world.

DHEA is also known to raise Estrogen levels, but I am willing to bet money that it was the supposed Anavar.

Please see this thread, it will open your eyes to the truth in regards to UGL products: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=black+market

Well, it also common knowledge now that you make up statistics on the spot.

[largerthannormal]

Atomini

this thread got long and I may have missed it,
I have a prop / tren / var cycle coming up.

My var is made from a close freind who has access to these compounds for research purposes.

My question is, he puts them in 150mg capsules, I of course would be happy to run half that. ( what is the half life i guess i could ask?)

I know var is a ED type deal, Is there an easy way to break this up? or do 150 EOD? i really dont want to do that much in one day. but I dont want to be diceing out powder everyday either...

Sorry if I hijacked a little....

[Atomini]

Well, it also common knowledge now that you make up statistics on the spot.

Have you seen the thread I linked to and the content linked to in it? 80% of the crap on the AAS black market is either counterfeit, or UGL crap that doesn't contain what is advertised on the label. There have been a few lab analysis performed on UGL gear that has found this type of thing to be the case. The information is in the video within that thread, check it out.

Atomini

this thread got long and I may have missed it,
I have a prop / tren / var cycle coming up.

My var is made from a close freind who has access to these compounds for research purposes.

My question is, he puts them in 150mg capsules, I of course would be happy to run half that. ( what is the half life i guess i could ask?)

I know var is a ED type deal, Is there an easy way to break this up? or do 150 EOD? i really dont want to do that much in one day. but I dont want to be diceing out powder everyday either...

Sorry if I hijacked a little....

It is difficult to break up capsules unless you take the powder out of the capsules yourself, and have a microscale to weigh it on to obtain the desired dose.

[AnabolicDoc]

Atomini

this thread got long and I may have missed it,
I have a prop / tren / var cycle coming up.

My var is made from a close freind who has access to these compounds for research purposes.

My question is, he puts them in 150mg capsules, I of course would be happy to run half that. ( what is the half life i guess i could ask?)

I know var is a ED type deal, Is there an easy way to break this up? or do 150 EOD? i really dont want to do that much in one day. but I dont want to be diceing out powder everyday either...

Sorry if I hijacked a little....

Anavar has a short half life, around 8 hours, so you shouldn't take it eod.

You can empty 1 capsule into a small open vial and then use a 1ml oral syringe to then add 1ml of water to the vial. Swirl the vial, then draw up 0.5ml and ingest it and save the other 0.5ml for the next day. Repeat this eod, so this way you don't have to worry about Anavar's stability in water (I don't know if it is stable in water or not, but 24 hours won't be an issue either way).

[AnabolicDoc]

Sorry, just realized that you wanted an answer from Atomini.

[Atomini]

Sorry, just realized that you wanted an answer from Atomini.

lol it's alright, I don't care if someone answers a question for someone that was originally directed towards me. There are plenty of helpful and very knowledgeable members here aside from myself and I encourage others to help out just as much.

[Brick]

Medistar gtg?

[Ole kristian]

great post! i love how this forum is so focused on studys and science!

[largerthannormal]

LOL no prob bro, I just knew from his posts he was knowledgeable with it. Anyones free to answer. IM not one of those guys who says " for knowledgeable members only " lol

Thanks for your reply

Sorry, just realized that you wanted an answer from Atomini.

[largerthannormal]

I will have to get one, thanks Atomini

Have you seen the thread I linked to and the content linked to in it? 80% of the crap on the AAS black market is either counterfeit, or UGL crap that doesn't contain what is advertised on the label. There have been a few lab analysis performed on UGL gear that has found this type of thing to be the case. The information is in the video within that thread, check it out.



It is difficult to break up capsules unless you take the powder out of the capsules yourself, and have a microscale to weigh it on to obtain the desired dose.

[largerthannormal]

Anavar has a short half life, around 8 hours, so you shouldn't take it eod.

You can empty 1 capsule into a small open vial and then use a 1ml oral syringe to then add 1ml of water to the vial. Swirl the vial, then draw up 0.5ml and ingest it and save the other 0.5ml for the next day. Repeat this eod, so this way you don't have to worry about Anavar's stability in water (I don't know if it is stable in water or not, but 24 hours won't be an issue either way).

good call, ill give this a whirl! hope it doesnt break down or anything to that means?

[AnabolicDoc]

I know that sometimes there are stability issues with certain meds/compounds but I'm certain it will be fine for a 24 hour period. This is commonly practiced in medicine when patients cannot afford to get an individualized smaller dose from the compounding pharmacy and only have available to them generic drug doses. As long as the medicine is not a controlled release formulation, it is not a problem to dissolve it in water for a short period.

You might want to consider emptying the 150mg capsule into 1ml of water and then taking 0.25ml twice per day bc anavar had such a short half life.

Please let me know how it works out.