*Aromasin (Exemestane) vs Arimidex (Anastrozole) Unraveled*

[MickeyKnox]

I run 25mg on cycle and have still seen BW with high e2 levels. Obviously its cycle dependent and it's never been stupid high but has been above ref range at 25mg.

Thanks for sharing that, Sarge. I appreciate that and will make note of it as well.

Im like you, and tend to require higher than usual dosing amounts. Right now im fluctuating between .5 and 1mg of Adex daily trying to find the sweet spot.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Honestly I think most people under dose ai on cycle just judging by how they feel etc. Most don't do bw on cycle and from my experience and the people I know/have talked to that do bw on cycle confirms it.

Hell I feel fantastic with e levels at 100 + but that doesn't mean it's healthy. IMO way too often e levels are guessed at based on gyno, water retention, lethargy, etc which I can attest is not an accurate gauge at all. I've bottomed out my e before on letro so I know what it feels like but I wonder how many people actually have bottomed their e on an ai, or how many way under dose their ai in fear of the god awful deadly low e levels.

[MickeyKnox]

Honestly I think most people under dose ai on cycle just judging by how they feel etc. Most don't do bw on cycle and from my experience and the people I know/have talked to that do bw on cycle confirms it.

Hell I feel fantastic with e levels at 100 + but that doesn't mean it's healthy. IMO way too often e levels are guessed at based on gyno, water retention, lethargy, etc which I can attest is not an accurate gauge at all. I've bottomed out my e before on letro so I know what it feels like but I wonder how many people actually have bottomed their e on an ai, or how many way under dose their ai in fear of the god awful deadly low e levels.

I agree with everything you just stated. The typically recommended daily amounts of AI to be used on cycle are simply a starting point that is almost guaranteed not to reduce E2 beyond the high end range values by ANY lab.

Whether that's Adex .25mg EOD or Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED, they are both safe values in place to give the user common ground and peace of mind that E2 levels will not skyrocket out of control. But they must be monitored and adjusted accordingly. And hopefully that is to current bloodwork.

[OdinsOtherSon]

Honestly I think most people under dose ai on cycle just judging by how they feel etc. Most don't do bw on cycle and from my experience and the people I know/have talked to that do bw on cycle confirms it.

Hell I feel fantastic with e levels at 100 + but that doesn't mean it's healthy. IMO way too often e levels are guessed at based on gyno, water retention, lethargy, etc which I can attest is not an accurate gauge at all. I've bottomed out my e before on letro so I know what it feels like but I wonder how many people actually have bottomed their e on an ai, or how many way under dose their ai in fear of the god awful deadly low e levels.

I totally agree. That is no different than the whole, "you're Test levels are normal at 300 on a scale of 295 - 1090."

[MickeyKnox]

Bump..

[largerthannormal]

I think your 100% correct SGT!

Honestly I think most people under dose ai on cycle just judging by how they feel etc. Most don't do bw on cycle and from my experience and the people I know/have talked to that do bw on cycle confirms it.

Hell I feel fantastic with e levels at 100 + but that doesn't mean it's healthy. IMO way too often e levels are guessed at based on gyno, water retention, lethargy, etc which I can attest is not an accurate gauge at all. I've bottomed out my e before on letro so I know what it feels like but I wonder how many people actually have bottomed their e on an ai, or how many way under dose their ai in fear of the god awful deadly low e levels.

[largerthannormal]

This is what I wanted to hear!, already got Aromasin so ill go with this and monitor. Every body seems to agree 12.5 is a good place to start(, There must be overwhelming evidence this is a good dose to not go outside the desired window for the normal user.

Mickey/Guys

Taking into consideration a short ester cycle with Aromasin
prop/ace/var .. aromasin

roughly when would be the soonest optimal time to reach stable levels for all these to get blood as soon as possible so we can monitor and adjust?

2 weeks for everything to spool up?

This may be boarder line hijack, but figured it kinda pertains to the subject and could help other users for monitoring reasons.

I agree with everything you just stated. The typically recommended daily amounts of AI to be used on cycle are simply a starting point that is almost guaranteed not to reduce E2 beyond the high end range values by ANY lab.

Whether that's Adex .25mg EOD or Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED, they are both safe values in place to give the user common ground and peace of mind that E2 levels will not skyrocket out of control. But they must be monitored and adjusted accordingly. And hopefully that is to current bloodwork.

[MickeyKnox]

This is what I wanted to hear!, already got Aromasin so ill go with this and monitor. Every body seems to agree 12.5 is a good place to start(, There must be overwhelming evidence this is a good dose to not go outside the desired window for the normal user.

Mickey/Guys

Taking into consideration a short ester cycle with Aromasin
prop/ace/var .. aromasin

roughly when would be the soonest optimal time to reach stable levels for all these to get blood as soon as possible so we can monitor and adjust?

2 weeks for everything to spool up?

This may be boarder line hijack, but figured it kinda pertains to the subject and could help other users for monitoring reasons.

Great question. And this is yet another piece of the puzzle that has been looming over my head for awhile. Once again, the transparent truth is, i do not feel that Aromasin is a solid choice when using short esters simply because of the length of time it takes to saturate and raise blood serum levels. Yes, its true that Aromasin has a shorter ester, but its clinically proven to take longer to perform and produce results. And for this reason i fell it's less superior to Arimidex when pairing up with Prop, Ace, Susp, or any other short estered AAS.

Thats my personal opinion. Its up to you guys to draw your own conclusions on this one.

[largerthannormal]

I thought aromasin half life was 27 hours in males? and about half that in females? ( not important, still id do ed) could be old info who knows

ON another note I seen a few other places a few guys on short esters who prefer stane which takes about 8-10 days to reach stable serum levels. ( so ive read but not sure how accurate this info is)

They run Adex for a few days up until the stane kicks in. ( or something to that effect)

( this is all more technical than it needs to be)

i know theres a chart on here somewhere that shows how to do it. I just cant find it.

*this may be dumb i have no clue

[largerthannormal]

I just read up a bit.. for some reason some say 10 hours and some say 27?? wonder whats the right answer?

also I edited my last dumb question..

[MickeyKnox]

Aromasin 's half life is 9 hours in men. I have that information in bold on the first page of this thread with supporting clinical data.

Front loading Aromasin is not recommended because, A - there is no data on this to suggest how much to use safely, and how it will perform with unusually large doses. And B - if you feel the need to front load Aromasin, simply choose Arimidex for your immediate needs.

My .02.

[largerthannormal]

damn, you seen my dumb question before i deleted it, HAHAHAHA... long weekend...

[MickeyKnox]

Ha, no worries man.

[kawika]

Bump

[OdinsOtherSon]

Hey Micky, have a question....this will be slightly off target but hopefully somewhat connect to the original spirit of the thread. Toremifene, Aromasin 's "little brother." Is it also a suicide inhibitor as Aromasin is?

[MickeyKnox]

Hey Micky, have a question....this will be slightly off target but hopefully somewhat connect to the original spirit of the thread. Toremifene, Aromasin's "little brother." Is it also a suicide inhibitor as Aromasin is?

Torem is a SERM bro. Similar to Nolva.

[OdinsOtherSon]

Oh crap....sorry. I had a brain fart.

[MickeyKnox]

I knew that.

[Youngsters]

I knew that.

Great read, added to my reading list.

[Etbthree]

I love this post!! Thank you MickeyKnox!

[kaiblade]

wow very informational post. thanks mickey. I have a question,

Im like you, and tend to require higher than usual dosing amounts. Right now im fluctuating between .5 and 1mg of Adex daily trying to find the sweet spot.

So when we are talking about dosing for both adex and aromasin , The default dose would be 0.25 EoD for adex and 12.5 ED for aromasin IF the person is taking 500mg test/week. And when you require higher than usual dosing amounts, does this imply that you are taking a higher dose of AAS or its just dosing of AIs is subject to the individual? I am confused as to whether there would be a difference to taking .25 or .5 adex EoD. I know it makes sense to increase the Ai dose if you are taking higher amounts of AAS but what is the breakpoint where we need to increase the dose? Would it put me on the safe side to just dose a higher amount of AI?

[MickeyKnox]

I love this post!! Thank you MickeyKnox!

Your welcome.

Please take a moment to check out my friend JimmyInk's perspective on Aromasin . He offers an alternate suggestion and protocol based largely on the study outlined in my original post on page 1 contained in this thread.

Exemestane-The Underdosed AI

Exemestane-The Underdosed AI

wow very informational post. thanks mickey. I have a question,

So when we are talking about dosing for both adex and aromasin, The default dose would be 0.25 EoD for adex and 12.5 ED for aromasin IF the person is taking 500mg test/week. And when you require higher than usual dosing amounts, does this imply that you are taking a higher dose of AAS or its just dosing of AIs is subject to the individual? I am confused as to whether there would be a difference to taking .25 or .5 adex EoD. I know it makes sense to increase the Ai dose if you are taking higher amounts of AAS but what is the breakpoint where we need to increase the dose? Would it put me on the safe side to just dose a higher amount of AI?

It could easily be one or the other, or a combination of both. Each AAS user is different based on human biology and genetics, even if they share similar stats. I actually posted this recently in another thread, iirc.

The 12.5mg/day suggested dose is only a suggested starting point that i feel is safe and will not reduce Estrogen to dangerous or unhealthy levels with the average AAS user. Its then up to the user to determine through bloodwork, or otherwise safe methods, what AI protocol is best for them.

We are all striving to provide the most up to date information available. However, its not unhealthy to have differing opinions. Please keep in mind that this is not to say that 25mg/day is out of line, only that my personal opinion is otherwise at this point. And also be mindful that Jimmy and i are not polar opposites when it come to Aromasin, in fact we are on the same page.

Take a moment to read my answer in Jimmy's thread and you'll clearly see my position and why.

Hope this helps you and your decision. The bottom lines is, always include an AI. (unless otherwise determined through bloodwork...or your an alien like Ronnie. lol)

[kaiblade]

Ahh yeah I actually read jimmy's post first and then I searched for your post when you replied that you also had made an article too on aromasin vs arimidex . The reason why I asked you about the dosing was also because of what you said:

my concern is that the study you’re referring to in order to support 25mg/day on an average AAS cycle, was conducted for only 10 days. If you look at the E2 graph in the study you provided you will notice the baseline is around 28pg/mL, but only ten days later the serum levels show a value of approximately 18pg/mL. This suggests to me that Estrogen levels are declining and will *likely continue to decline if the 25mg/day administration/protocol is continued. In fact, the study ends with a conclusion and proper caution that is often attached to inconclusive short term studies,

That's why I was curious to know more. Jimmy suggested that AIs are underdosed in many people but you managed to point out that the study was done in a short term study, less than 10 days. So wouldn't it mean that the compiled decline in E2 over a period for example of 90 days would put the person at dangerously low levels?

For myself, I do not have access to bloodwork so easily in my country. They ask too many questions and it's freaking expensive to get a simple test done. So I'm just gonna stick with the normal suggested dose. I've been searching for threads like this for a long time now Thanks, both you and jimmy's thread definitely helped clear some foggy thoughts that I had. It is a very entertaining debate

[MickeyKnox]

Ahh yeah I actually read jimmy's post first and then I searched for your post when you replied that you also had made an article too on aromasin vs arimidex . The reason why I asked you about the dosing was also because of what you said:



That's why I was curious to know more. Jimmy suggested that AIs are underdosed in many people but you managed to point out that the study was done in a short term study, less than 10 days. So wouldn't it mean that the compiled decline in E2 over a period for example of 90 days would put the person at dangerously low levels? I dont know the answer to this as there are no long term studies to reference. But, quite honestly, it may be perfectly fine. However, again, because i do not know i choose to stay with a bit lower dose in the beginning and titrate up from there.

For myself, I do not have access to bloodwork so easily in my country. They ask too many questions and it's freaking expensive to get a simple test done. So I'm just gonna stick with the normal suggested dose. I've been searching for threads like this for a long time now Thanks, both you and jimmy's thread definitely helped clear some foggy thoughts that I had. It is a very entertaining debate

Youre welcome.

If you choose Aromasin for your AI, keep a record of your experience.

[johnk271]

Im already sure that the answer to my question is no, but if i have all the signs and symptoms of high estrogen but am tight on money to get bloodwork done, could i take low dose aromasin and see what happens? If i have bad results just stop taking or if good results keep going? Im sure that sounds like a dumb idea but just wanted to ask to be sure. Btw, never used any steroids but ive always had a LOT of fat in the chest area and an extremely hard time losing fat. Diet/training are on point. Im an NASM CPT and studying for the performance enhancement Specialist certification.

[MickeyKnox]

I would not attempt anything before bloodwork.

And please ensure you ask for the "Sensitive" Male Estradiol assay with your bloodwork. This is important in order to have accurate values to determine if your E2 levels are in fact high.

[johnk271]

Ok thank you. And other than that, what else should i ask for?

[MickeyKnox]

Ok thank you. And other than that, what else should i ask for?

Everything you can afford. The following is a suggested list of hormones to test if you have never had bloodwork before.

Original author - Kelkel


INITIAL LABWORK:

After a complete Medical History, which laboratory assays should be run as part of your initial hypogonadism workup? Following is a list, but certainly other specialists in this area may run expanded or attenuated panels, per individual clinical experience and expertise. Of note, additional tests which should be included to complete a comprehensive Anti-Aging Medicine workup, inflammatory markers, insulin , comprehensive thyroid study and as always, the panel needs to be tailored to the individual patient. Here are examples only recommended by Dr. John Crisler in his paper “Current Best thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men.”

• Total Testosterone
• Bioavailable testosterone (aka Free and Loosely Bound)
• Free Testosterone
• SHBG
• DHT (gel users especially pay attention to this)
• Estradiol (specify “sensitive” assay for males)
• LH
• FSH
• Prolactin
• Cortisol
• Thyroid Panel (complete)
• CBC
• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
• Lipid Panel
• PSA (age dependent)
• IGF-1, IGFBP-3 (if HGH therapy is being considered)
• Vitamin D


FOLLOW-UP LABS:

• Total Testosterone
• Bioavailable Testosterone
• Free Testosterone
• Estradiol (specify “sensitive” assay for males)
• LH
• FSH
• CBC
• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
• Lipid Profile
• PSA (for those over 40 with family history of prostate CA. >45 all others)
• IGF-1, IGFBP-3 (if GH therapy has been initiated already)

[johnk271]

Thank you for the info. Ill be getting that done as soon as possible.

[MickeyKnox]

Bump..

[MickeyKnox]

Bump..

[DAAS]

Honestly I think most people under dose ai on cycle just judging by how they feel etc. Most don't do bw on cycle and from my experience and the people I know/have talked to that do bw on cycle confirms it.

Hell I feel fantastic with e levels at 100 + but that doesn't mean it's healthy. IMO way too often e levels are guessed at based on gyno, water retention, lethargy, etc which I can attest is not an accurate gauge at all. I've bottomed out my e before on letro so I know what it feels like but I wonder how many people actually have bottomed their e on an ai, or how many way under dose their ai in fear of the god awful deadly low e levels.

Can I ask how do you feel when your E levels are bottomed out? IM curious how people tell the difference between to high estrogen and to low when gyno signs are not apparent. PM?

[MickeyKnox]

Can I ask how do you feel when your E levels are bottomed out? IM curious how people tell the difference between to high estrogen and to low when gyno signs are not apparent. PM?

The symptoms are very similar.

[AnabolicDoc]

I agree that there are some similarities bw high and low E such as fatigue and decreased libido but there I find that there are some symptomatic differences as well. High E may often be associated with bloating (water retention) and high BP that often results in headaches for some. Whereas low E may be associated with joint pain, depression and a general feeling of being unwell. Just a thought.

[MickeyKnox]

Agreed Doc.


Symptoms of High E2

* Depression
* Trouble reaching an orgasm
* No erections while sleeping (i.e. "night wood" or "morning wood")
* Anxiety
* Panic Attacks
* Prostate problems
* Gynecomastia
* Water Retention
* Dizziness/Vertigo
* Increased Blood Pressure
* Decreased Libido
* ED
* When penis is limp, it doesn't hang low (it seems to try to crawl back up)
* Asthma like issues (due to increased water retention around the lungs)
* Trouble sleeping at night - waking up multiple times per night
* Lack of Libido
* Crying while watching TV shows/movies
* Easier to get angry (think PMS)
* Insulin Resistance (getting tired after eating a meal - if left
untreated, it can lead to Type II Diabetes)
* Larger stomach
* Redness on the face and/or chest
* Feeling hotter than everybody else
* Thinner skin/bleeding easier

[MickeyKnox]

Here's one the best E2 articles i have ever read. Its by own own GDevine



Estradiol and Therapeutic Management: What you should know

From the beginning...

Estradiol is simply a class of Estrogen of which there are about 30 different types. Estradiol (E2 or 17β-Estradiol, or as Oestradiol) is a sex hormone . Estradiol is abbreviated as “E2” as it has 2 hydroxyl groups in its molecular structure. It is known by many of us as simply “E2 “as its abbreviation.

Many people (even Physicians) simply call Estradiol, Estrogen.

Estradiol is the major sex hormone of interest in foundational Testosterone Replacement Therapies.

Why it Matters

There are basically two very important reasons that we need to care about Estradiol.

The first is that Estradiol is a powerful Testosterone receptor antagonist. What this means to us men is that Estradiol creates a very strong bond to the Androgen Receptors of Testosterone and renders them useless.

However, when testosterone binds to an Androgen Receptor, it activates that receptor and we get the physiological effects we're all looking for. Now, when Estradiol binds to that same receptor it blocks Testosterone from binding, yet it does not activate the receptor, so in short nothing happens.

This means that if your Estradiol serum level is high, no matter how much exogenous testosterone you take it isn't going to help you as it should because too many of your androgen receptors are now blocked by Estradiol and your Free Testosterone has nowhere to go.

Exogenous Testosterone can't do you any good if it doesn't have receptors available to activate…simple enough.

Now, things can get worse believe it or not... some believe that elevated levels of Estradiol can cause the down regulation of Androgen Receptors. What this potentially means is that your body may respond to higher levels of Estradiol by creating fewer Androgen Receptors as cells are replaced in a normal regeneration cycle .

So, not only does Estradiol block the available Androgen Receptors as noted, it may cause your body to produce fewer of them in the future!

This is where many Docs get it wrong and is one primary reason why just “raising Testosterone serum levels” alone as a mono-therapy may not have any immediate effect on a man. It may be that the receptors have been down regulated and so there will be a need to lower Estradiol levels and increase Testosterone levels in order to get a man’s body to up-regulate again and this could take some time.

The second reason we care about Estradiol in men is that we also have Estrogen Receptors and Estradiol will bind to them and cause them to activate. This is fine if you want to grow man boobs (Gynecomastia ) add belly fat and get an enlarged prostate, among other things, but not so good if you want to look and feel like a healthy man.

Keep in mind, the aromatase enzyme lives in the skin and has a propensity for abdominal fat. Meaning the more belly fat you have the higher level of aromatase you will have.

Where Estrogen Comes From

Let’s forget environmental estrogens here; the primary pathway for Estradiol production is via the conversion of Testosterone by the Aromatase Enzyme.

What this means is that the Aromatase Enzyme found in every man’s body bonds to Testosterone Receptors and chemically synthesizes it to Estradiol (E2).

Think about this for a minute and realize that this conversion is a double edged sword. All in one process you're 1) losing Testosterone and 2) gaining Estradiol.

Obviously this is not good healthy state to be in and one that needs to be managed correctly.

This is where drugs like an Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) like Anastrozole (brand name Arimidex - aka "adex" etc.) come into a well planned TRT protocol. An AI will bond to the Aromatase Enzyme and prevent it from converting your Testosterone to Estradiol.

Keep in mind, and many men get this wrong; but AI’s do not work directly on Estradiol or on the Estrogen receptors. It is SERM's like Clomid and Nolvadex that bond to Estrogen Receptors.

SERM's and AI's are different compounds, so don't get them confused. Nolvadex acts as an estrogen antagonist and will not stop the aromatization process. It disrupts the estrogen receptor bond formation process. So, your estrogen will rise but will be blocked from the chest receptors.

So, an AI gives us that double edged sword but now in reverse. An AI will prevent the loss of Testosterone to conversion and consequently lowers our Estradiol levels which helps keep our Androgen Receptors available for Testosterone.

Keep in mind that Anastrozole is a powerful aromatase inhibitor (antagonist) and that too much can easily cause you to push your E2 level to low. Its half life is app. 46.8 hrs so this needs to be kept in mind upon initiating a dosing schedule, especially if self-administering this product. In most all cases it is suggested to start with the lowest possible dose and titrate up based on frequent blood work, until stable levels are attained.

Less is more here! Both high and low E2 come with similar side effects such as joint pain, loss of libido, etc.

Estradiol Always Follows Testosterone

Here's where Doctor’s and other Medical Practitioners get it wrong; they forget that Estradiol always follows Testosterone. As your Testosterone serum levels elevate, so will your Estradiol levels.

If your Doctor is not doing something to manage your Estradiol levels (like taking an AI) then you aren't really going to get anywhere with higher Testosterone serum levels because your higher Estradiol levels are just going to cancel out any beneficial effect from the Testosterone. Like I said, your exogenous Testosterone can't do you any good if all your Androgen Receptors are all bound up with Estradiol.

For those of us with "age related" low Testosterone levels, this is a serious issue because our bodies are naturally trying to keep Testosterone levels lower and Estradiol higher by producing more of the Aromatase Enzyme.

If you're a younger man and have low Testosterone serum levels for some other reason, Aromatization may not be as much of an issue, but trust me…it still matters. Keep in mind that many fifty plus year old men have higher estrogen levels than women the same age.

Fat!

Excessive body fat produces Estrogen and Aromatase Enzymes. If you're carrying extra body fat, one of the best things you can do to help your hormone balance is to lose that fat…and for many other health reasons as well.

Problems Associated With Low Estradiol

What is the ideal number for you? That would be for you and your physician to decide. However, keep in mind, there can be just as many complications, if not more, by having your estradiol value too low. It is essential for men to have healthy levels of estrogen in their bodies to function properly.

Some have the mindset that lower is better, which is the wrong type of mindset. In fact, sustaining low levels of estradiol for lengthy periods of time can be downright detrimental!

Here are just some of the issues associated with having your estradiol level too low:

• A feeling of being lethargic, sluggishness, and frequently fatigued.
• Headaches
• Depression
• Dry skin and hair
• Unhealthy nails
• Loss of libido
• Sore, achy joints
• Inability to concentrate
• Panic and anxiety sensations
• Potential risks for osteoporosis and bone fractures
• Potential cardiovascular and immune risks


“In Range” Does Not Mean “Normal”

One of the biggest and more frustrating problems you're likely to face is the problem of most Doctors believing that any blood test value that is "in range" is "normal" and therefore “fine”. I wish it was that simple and that goes for most if not all lab ranges.

Let's take a look at Testosterone values. The Total Testosterone reference range for Quest is 250-1100 ng/dL. But those values were formulated simply by looking at the values of everyone else who has a blood test for Testosterone…let me say that again: “everyone else.”

What's normal for a young guy is to be in the higher end of the reference range. What's normal for an older guy is to be in the lower end of the range…just normal biological processes.

So, while low Testosterone might be "normal" from a lab reference range perspective that doesn't mean it's good or healthy for that matter! I may be an older guy, but why should I be happy with lower Testosterone and elevated Estradiol levels simply because “it's normal”?

All men of all ages should be in the higher end of the reference range if they want to feel good, look good and perform athletically and sexually as men and grow old healthy!

The same holds true for Estradiol levels. The Access Medical Labs reference range for Estradiol Sensitive is 7.6-42.6 pg/ml but "normal" young men are at the low end of that reference range and that's where we all want to be as well.

Trust me, if your Testosterone serum levels is 250 ng/dl and your Estradiol is 42 pg/ml, you may be "in range" for both values, but you aren't going to feel good or have anywhere near the athletic and sexual performance that you would have if your Testosterone level was 800 ng/dl and your Estradiol level was 25 pg/ml.

A word about Estradiol “Sensitive” Testing

Unless your Doctor specifically requests a ‘Sensitive’ assay the lab will default to the standard Estradiol assay designed specifically for women, which is useless for men. The reason for the difference between the two assays is the bell curve from which the test was designed sits within the “normal” range for women and not men.

Therefore, the hormone concentration range appropriate for adult men falls on the flat slope of that bell curve making it completely inaccurate for testing men’s E2 serum levels. Always ask for the “Sensitive” assay when your Doctor is conducting a blood test and testing for Estradiol.

Natural Variation in Populations

All populations exhibit some amount variation. The average height for men might be 5' 10" but we all know guys who are much taller and much shorter…it’s just a natural part of our existence. This same variation applies to Testosterone serum levels, Estradiol serum levels, and reactions to various therapies as well…we’re all different!

In other words, while what I've outlined holds true in general; how it specifically applys to you will vary.

Ok, that's enough rambling from me for now on this subject matter. I wrote this, with the expert help and assistance from kelkel and Vettester, as a basic primer; there's a lot more to this subject, so use this as a springboard to do more research on your own an learn.

Peace.

gd
Last edited by gdevine; 08-10-2012 at 01:33 AM.

[DAAS]

The symptoms are very similar.

Yeah I know I was just asking Sgt. Hartman since he said he could tell

[MickeyKnox]

Can I ask how do you feel when your E levels are bottomed out? IM curious how people tell the difference between to high estrogen and to low when gyno signs are not apparent. PM?

Yeah I know I was just asking Sgt. Hartman since he said he could tell

Sorry bro..thought that was for anyone to chime in.

[DAAS]

Oh no you were helpful as well thanks bro!

Sorry bro..thought that was for anyone to chime in.

[MickeyKnox]

Bump..