Debating two approaches for my first cycle - Would LOVE input..

[nussnussbaby]

Pretty much. Having never done them, you may get started and find out you'd rather stick yourself 1-2 times a week instead of 3-4 times.

I started out with Cypionate and then after a few years, switched over to Propionate . One more thing with prop other than the injections, is that the prop ester can cause injection site pain/swelling after injection. Some people it doesn't bother, but most it does. You will want an Aromatase Inhibitor with whatever ester you choose.

I hold less water with prop, than cyp ( never used Enanthate). But, diet and AI will be the main factors of controlling water.

What's AI?

[nussnussbaby]

Icky, Dante, King - great informative posts. I have an experienced friend here who can help me get started with the injections, so I think I'm leaning towards prop.

Kkell seems to be the one person against that idea, for the sake of keeping it simple.

Need to keep thinking about it, for sure..

[king6 II]

Icky, Dante, King - great informative posts. I have an experienced friend here who can help me get started with the injections, so I think I'm leaning towards prop.

Kkell seems to be the one person against that idea, for the sake of keeping it simple.

Need to keep thinking about it, for sure..

For those who are virgins to injections, I can agree with an enanthate ester. The main reason it is possible for the user to get burned out by injections and then start to slack on injections. If you have never injected I can agree with test E. I started with Test E and moved to prop after becoming immune to injections. However, to each is his own. You need to experiment and find out what works best for you, I personally am a fan of prop however, I have 2 cycles under my belt.

[ickythump]

I used sust and did it eod, never missed a day, even when pip was bad...the last two weeks I did glutes only because I was used to it and they didn't mind at all, my glutes that is

[Black]

What's AI?

Aromatase Inhibitor

[Capebuffalo]

What's AI?

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...le-swifto.html

[nussnussbaby]

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...le-swifto.html

Right, okay, I've read this.

In all seriousness and honesty, how bad is the PIP? It sounds like it's enough to make some ppl want to skip injections? How concerned should I be about that?

[ickythump]

Right, okay, I've read this.

In all seriousness and honesty, how bad is the PIP? It sounds like it's enough to make some ppl want to skip injections? How concerned should I be about that?

I had bad pip in quads, so I didn't pin them, the other pip I got was from improper technique. I wasn't going deep enough, delts because I didn't realize I had a full inch of muscle to go all the way in, glutes I got a longer needle because I had more fat on them than I thought. But honestly, it's not bad, you just man up when it hurts lol

[king6 II]

Right, okay, I've read this.

In all seriousness and honesty, how bad is the PIP? It sounds like it's enough to make some ppl want to skip injections? How concerned should I be about that?

Honestly it depends on the gear. I ran prop from a very reputable UGL at the time and there was no PIP at all.

[nussnussbaby]

honestly it depends on the gear. I ran prop from a very reputable ugl at the time and there was no pip at all.

ugl?

[king6 II]

Underground Lab.

[Capebuffalo]

Right, okay, I've read this.

In all seriousness and honesty, how bad is the PIP? It sounds like it's enough to make some ppl want to skip injections? How concerned should I be about that?

Like my momma told me when I was a boy You can't be a pvssy your whole life. And she was right. It's part of it. You just deal with it.

[nussnussbaby]

So, alright. I'm leaning towards test-prop. The EOD injections might suck, but I'm willing to suffer through whatever pains there are to get optimal results.

Week 1-8: Testosterone Propionate : 100 to 150mg EOD.
Week 1-8: hCG : 250iu 2x/wk
Week 1-8 +3 days: Arimidex : 0.25mg EOD.
Week 8 +3 days - Week 12 +3 days: Clomid 75/50/50/50mg
Week 8 +3 days - Week 12 +3 days: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20mg

*600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) daily.

I'll drop to about 162 before starting. Hope to gain about 8lbs of almost all muscle on the cycle.



...I guess one of the first questions I'd have is: 100 or 150mg of test prop EOD? I'm guessing it'd be better to lean closer to the 150mg side?

...Also, do I just take the NAC during the cycle? Or throughout PCT as well?

[Black]

So, alright. I'm leaning towards test-prop. The EOD injections might suck, but I'm willing to suffer through whatever pains there are to get optimal results.

Week 1-8: Testosterone Propionate : 100 to 150mg EOD.
Week 1-8: hCG : 250iu 2x/wk
Week 1-8 +3 days: Arimidex : 0.25mg EOD.
Week 8 +3 days - Week 12 +3 days: Clomid 75/50/50/50mg
Week 8 +3 days - Week 12 +3 days: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20mg

*600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) daily.

I'll drop to about 162 before starting. Hope to gain about 8lbs of almost all muscle on the cycle.

...I guess one of the first questions I'd have is: 100 or 150mg of test prop EOD? I'm guessing it'd be better to lean closer to the 150mg side?

...Also, do I just take the NAC during the cycle? Or throughout PCT as well?

NAC can be taken regularly. I take it on and off cycle. I would at least continue it through PCT.

You are looking at 350mg or 455mg a week. 350 is on the lower end, but with prop it will still make a good first cycle. Also, with the lower dose, you aromatize less, which means less water. Plus, you want to grow into your dose. You have plenty of time to increase dosages in later cycle.

However, if you go 455, its not unheard of for a first cycle and not necessarily too much. Knowing what I know now, I would do 350mg is this was my first cycle. Up to you though man.

[redz]

Why 6%? I mean once you get to 10% muscles are pretty clearly defined. It would just be healthier. If competing then sure temporarily makes sense. I don't get the attitude though, if you say you know so much why ask? Gear is a tiny part of the picture. I would love to see you bench 450lbs. If you did that's amazing.

[redz]

I totally didn't notice how many pages this thread was I only read the first one lol.

[ickythump]

Lolol I was thinking geez red, wtf is happening haha

[ickythump]

So, alright. I'm leaning towards test-prop. The EOD injections might suck, but I'm willing to suffer through whatever pains there are to get optimal results.

Week 1-8: Testosterone Propionate : 100 to 150mg EOD.
Week 1-8: hCG : 250iu 2x/wk
Week 1-8 +3 days: Arimidex : 0.25mg EOD.
Week 8 +3 days - Week 12 +3 days: Clomid 75/50/50/50mg
Week 8 +3 days - Week 12 +3 days: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20mg

*600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) daily.

I'll drop to about 162 before starting. Hope to gain about 8lbs of almost all muscle on the cycle.



...I guess one of the first questions I'd have is: 100 or 150mg of test prop EOD? I'm guessing it'd be better to lean closer to the 150mg side?

...Also, do I just take the NAC during the cycle? Or throughout PCT as well?

NAC is a good all around supplement, you can probably learn about it in ten minutes it's pretty tested....gather a few opinions on dosage, but I like that cycle, injecting is only as bad as you let it be, you will hurt a few seconds, pip can be like a really really DOMS afflicted muscle (delayed onset muscle soreness, like after a SWEET workout) but you will survive...like my buddies Armenian dad always says "kid- don't be a pvssy"

[gearbox]

It's going to be hilarious when you can't sit down from pip pain or lift your arms. Haha
Some get it bad but everyone gets it to a degree.

[nussnussbaby]

It's going to be hilarious when you can't sit down from pip pain or lift your arms. Haha
Some get it bad but everyone gets it to a degree.

Wonderful. ?

[nussnussbaby]

NAC can be taken regularly. I take it on and off cycle. I would at least continue it through PCT.

You are looking at 350mg or 455mg a week. 350 is on the lower end, but with prop it will still make a good first cycle. Also, with the lower dose, you aromatize less, which means less water. Plus, you want to grow into your dose. You have plenty of time to increase dosages in later cycle.

However, if you go 455, its not unheard of for a first cycle and not necessarily too much. Knowing what I know now, I would do 350mg is this was my first cycle. Up to you though man.

This is interesting. I get where 350 comes from. 100mg x 3.5 (3.5 = EOD). But I don't get where 455 comes from? 150mg x 3.5 = 525.

Either way. It sounds like you think I should go with 100mg/EOD.

[Black]

This is interesting. I get where 350 comes from. 100mg x 3.5 (3.5 = EOD). But I don't get where 455 comes from? 150mg x 3.5 = 525.

Either way. It sounds like you think I should go with 100mg/EOD.

Oh no, my basic math skills are going to sh!t. Yeah, that's what I said, 525mg.

[nussnussbaby]

Oh no, my basic math skills are going to sh!t. Yeah, that's what I said, 525mg.

lol. So you think 100mg EOD would be the way for me to go?

[ickythump]

If you get quality testosterone I bet you'll raise your levels quite well at 100 eod (disclaimer: from what I read)

[nussnussbaby]

If you get quality testosterone I bet you'll raise your levels quite well at 100 eod (disclaimer: from what I read)

Okay. It's definitely a little confusing. The beginner's first cycle sticky says 100 to 150mg. That's really a pretty wide variance. The more opinions I hear on it the better.

[John Andrew]

Please finish this thread now. I am so old I will die long before reading all the crap. As Mr baby nuss knows all we are not required!

Please!!

John

[Black]

Please finish this thread now. I am so old I will die long before reading all the crap. As Mr baby nuss knows all we are not required!

Please!!

John

There's nothing wrong with members asking questions. Who are we to tell someone they are being overly cautious. No one is making you click on this thread John.

[Black]

Okay. It's definitely a little confusing. The beginner's first cycle sticky says 100 to 150mg. That's really a pretty wide variance. The more opinions I hear on it the better.

It is quite a difference. Look at it this way nuss. This probably won't be your one and only cycle. If it is, then I would forget even doing it. With that being said, let's say you start at 350mg a week and you don't gain as much as you would've liked. No problem, now you know next cycle, you will need a little more.

Or you start at 525 a week, start to hold a little more water, then you'd just adjust your aromatase inhibitor. Honestly, being as lean as you are and with a good diet, water shouldn't be much of an issue, especially with an AI.

Or say, fvck it and split the number and do 125 EOD. See where this is going? There are many options and what works for someone may not work the same for you. So opinions are useless here. Not to mention, although there is quite a difference in recommended starting doses, you will probably not notice a HUGE difference in effects and/or results.

[kelkel]

Or, you can simply do an easy, long ester cycle and use the KISS method and stop worrying about all this stuff.

[austinite]

Or, you can simply do an easy, long ester cycle and use the KISS method and stop worrying about all this stuff.

Are you flirting again?

[Black]

Or, you can simply do an easy, long ester cycle and use the KISS method and stop worrying about all this stuff.

Is that the "Rock 'n Roll all night and party everyday method"? I cycled that in my twenties.

[kelkel]

Are you flirting again?

With you? But of course.

[kelkel]

Is that the "Rock 'n Roll all night and party everyday method"? I cycled that in my twenties.

Unfortunately, many will think that!

[nussnussbaby]

What is the KISS method?

Pain and ease aside, the test-prop/EOD approach seems to have a major advantage for me (less water retention). Having to figure out whether I need 100g or 150g each injection isn't really a disadvantage.

[kronik420]

if you haven't found your answer in 5 pages, you will never get it.. time to close this thread...

[ickythump]

if you haven't found your answer in 5 pages, you will never get it.. time to close this thread...

There's plenty of good information toward the last few pages, so I don't think your comment has any need to be here

[kronik420]

There's plenty of good information toward the last few pages, so I don't think your comment has any need to be here

there's plenty of good information here: EDUCATIONAL THREADS , so i don;t think this thread has any need to be here..

[ickythump]

there's plenty of good information here: EDUCATIONAL THREADS , so i don;t think this thread has any need to be here..

Then don't comment in it, easy peasy

[lovbyts]

What's AI?

ugl?

Let me help you out for future reference.
Common terms and abbreviations..

[nussnussbaby]

oh. I just got it. Keep It Simple Stupid. lol. durr