I am 18 years old and I juice

[Got Iron?]

I juiced when i was 18. The worst thing i did in my life. I lost everything!! I didn't loose it all at one time but it still eventually left. It might take sometime to loose but but its not worth it untill you have finished growing. At 18 you can still get a lot of natural gains. Its a slow process to start off but well worth the wait if you so it right. You might be tempted to jucie if you see a whole lot of huge dudes in the gym but i bet they are a lot older and have been lifting for a longer period of time. Time = Success!!!

Just my 2 cents!!

[Grant]

Foxy, you sure are doing a lot of bragging about how well this EXPERIMENT(since it is unprecendented) is going to turn out. I sure hope for your sake that you grow 1 foot and gain a hell of a lot of muscle mass otherwise you will look like an even bigger fool than you appear to be now.

Your writings are baffling to me because it seems as though if it makes sense in your head, then it will certainly pan out to be true in real life. You are not realizing that you can not learn all of the body's dynamics from reading a book. There are going to be situations that arise that you didn't account for. Situations that may sabotage your expected net results. You have only accomplished 1/8 of the experiment. You have read your ass off, but now its time to see results and until we/you see results, quit bragging about what a success your findings are.

[Carlos_E]

Foxy Sphinx, how tall are you? I'm wondering why growing a few inches is such a big deal to you.

[Foxy Sphinx]

I juiced when i was 18. The worst thing i did in my life. I lost everything!! I didn't loose it all at one time but it still eventually left. It might take sometime to loose but but its not worth it untill you have finished growing. At 18 you can still get a lot of natural gains. Its a slow process to start off but well worth the wait if you so it right. You might be tempted to jucie if you see a whole lot of huge dudes in the gym but i bet they are a lot older and have been lifting for a longer period of time. Time = Success!!!

Just my 2 cents!!

and your cycle was most likely the usual cycles, test + dbol or something along those lines.

If I had the resources, id be running not just HGH and IGF-1, but also IGF-2, FGF, TGF, MGF, PDGF, EGF, BMP, GHRH, IGFBP-3, PTH and GHBP. Infact, I read somewhere of a company that was composing a kit of roughly the same hormones and factors, id love to get my hands on one someday, although im sure itd cost like 500 dollars a day to use.

Remember, the gains from GH/IGF-1 are much more stable gains than from just AAS alone, and also, my cycle will be promoting the leanest most quality gains in muscle you could imagine. Not just gonna bloat up like abombs or dbols, although im sure thats gotta be fun to do


As for Grant, name another person on this board that has had even 1/10th as much research for one of their cycles. Not only am I completely confident ill acheive height growth (given that my epiphyseal growth plates have not fused -- getting xrays), but I am estimating a massive muscular gain like nothing you've ever heard of before... and not just shitty gained shit that liquifies off me after PCT, but solid LBM.

So with no experience, why the hell am I making such estimations you may ask. Because I can. I beleive in my own research and knowledge and cycle more so than I beleive in your 50 years of juicing experience.

[Foxy Sphinx]

Foxy Sphinx, how tall are you? I'm wondering why growing a few inches is such a big deal to you.

Im 5'7", my goals 5'11", no taller.

Carlos, theres more to this than just my benefits. Some very elite people have high prospects for the success of this Gigantism recreation, I wont say why, but im sure you can figure it out (go research Gigantism).

[Grant]

As for Grant, name another person on this board that has had even 1/10th as much research for one of their cycles. Not only am I completely confident ill acheive height growth (given that my epiphyseal growth plates have not fused -- getting xrays), but I am estimating a massive muscular gain like nothing you've ever heard of before... and not just shitty gained shit that liquifies off me after PCT, but solid LBM.

So with no experience, why the hell am I making such estimations you may ask. Because I can. I beleive in my own research and knowledge and cycle more so than I beleive in your 50 years of juicing experience.

I can name about 10 guys who have researched more than you. You dont know everybody so you are full of false confidence. You didn't answer most of my points i addressed to you, but that is a common theme in all your posts. When somebody stumps you or challenges you, you avoid it and babble on about something else. Once again, show me some results because the only thing you have proved is that you are a talker. Or you can keep your mindless insults up, just remember, I'm where you want to be.

[motoxxxguy]

I'm sure I'm not hte only one, but I'm getting tired of hearing about I researched this and I researched that. Get on with your cycle and prove us wrong. How many other ways can this be said?

Damn, now I went and let myself get sucked into this crap.

-moto

[Powerful Beast]

foxy may I ask you, what kind of books have you read? name of author/title of book. You sound intelligent in your words, but your actions dont sound wise. What is it that you're trying to achieve here? Gigantism was allready invented, and 1 year long cycles have allready been initiated. So your not doing anything unique at all in your path..so im just trying to find out why are you really doing this? Maybe your just desperate to make something out of your life, so you throw these fancy words at us and expect to be a "special" "unique" person? Well until then, you better start DOING "special", and "unique" actions to prove your worthy of something.

[Nailer]

foxy may I ask you, what kind of books have you read? name of author/title of book. You sound intelligent in your words, but your actions dont sound wise. What is it that you're trying to achieve here? Gigantism was allready invented, and 1 year long cycles have allready been initiated. So your not doing anything unique at all in your path..so im just trying to find out why are you really doing this? Maybe your just desperate to make something out of your life, so you throw these fancy words at us and expect to be a "special" "unique" person? Well until then, you better start DOING "special", and "unique" actions to prove your worthy of something.

never new "Gigantism" was an invention

[Taejoon]

Results? We're all waiting, to much theory makes me weary. Until you've done it, and not ended up dead, you're a whole lot of show and not a lot of go. Enough said...

Peace

-Taejoon

[Foxy Sphinx]

LMAO

First yall saying dont take juice, now yall saying hurry the fuck up and do it. Man you people got some issues.

First of all, the cycle is going to take over a year to complete, so dont expect any result postings anytime soon.

Grant, ive addressed as many points of yours as I can see you trying to make. Now your asking me for a study that showcases this highly illegal act? I just finished explaining the science community would never allow this, now how am I to post a study of it being done?

I can post evidence of all the factors in the cycle itself working, but never before in science studies have they been simultaneously combined. Ive already shown you that letrozole , GH/IGF-1, and testosterone all play roles in bone growth and have all been used to increase height, ive posted about 10 links above that show all this and more, that show everything im saying BACKED BY EVIDENCE, wether its in humans or not, some things are allowed to be experiemnted in vivo, others in vitro, this is how it is. I mean fuck sakes, did you EVEN GOTO THE 10 LINKS I GAVE YOU? Did you even read the two studies I posted? Are you even capable of intaking research and interpreting it???? Apparently not, becuase your asking the same quesitons over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and im answering them a different way each time and it still doesnt sink into your half baked mind.

Scroll back, and read the links I provided, I have HUNDREADS more if you want, but I sincrely doubt you'll even read the links I have provided. Fuck, I even posted pictures of the god damn books im reading right now, and still, you guys refuse to acknowledge that I (unlike you) have a incredible amount of knowledge in this area, you ahvnt done SHIT for research, you dont understand bone growth, you dont understand puberty, you dont understand anything you cant challenge me with an argument cause you have no knowledge to argue me with. You havnt checked all the resources ive provided you, instead you merely assume theyre insignificant to your itty bity points.

Theres nothing left to argue here, you have not argued a single point to me, you've not proven a single thing to me other than the fact that you dont know what im trying to do at all and have little understanding of anything relevant to this cycle.

Im through with trying to teach FUCKING HANDCIAPPED IDIOTS. Go read the links, if you want more, ask, ive got enough to keep you busy for the next 2 years of your life, and that doesnt include any books.

Im not going to waste my time providing you with the resources if your not going to read them, in not going to show you my evidence BECAUSE YOU WONT LOOK AT IT, as ive ALREAYD SHOWN YOU IT, yet you still ask the same god awful questions and try to argue the same stupid points.

[Foxy Sphinx]

Also, gigantism is not an invention, its a disorder.

And no it hasnt been recreated anyway like this, that would be the exact OPPOSITE of what science is trying to do about the disorder, do you ever see scientists purposely create cancer in their patients??? NO.

Dr. Daniel Rudman (now deceased), was the leader in GH research back when the recombinant forms patents were being battled for by Genentech and Eli Lilly for the Orphan Drug Act. In his research he was using much higher GH levels than is now currently, and he came across exactly what I am proposing, Gigantism and Acromegaly. He then died, and scientists there after lowered the dosages considerably and Gigantism and Acromegaly where no longer a problem in GH therapy for children.

So technically it has been recreated, but my form of its recreation is far more potent than Dr. Rudman or anyone else would have acheived simply by using GH alone.

[Foxy Sphinx]

Yay finally a decent comment, good to see somones capable of reading!!!

If height was my only goal, then GH/IGF-1/Letrozole would be my combo of choice. The main goals height, but muscule gains and fat loss are also highly desired. I looked at it this way when I first began contemplating this, if Im going to pay the money to run GH and IGF-1, I would be a fool not to also take advantage of their muscle building properties and fat loss properties the best I possibly can.

Would you buy a Lamborghini just to take your kid to school??? Id hope not, while that can be one use, you'd also wanna rip it up to 300+kmh whenever you can. And hell, youd sure wanna put the best gas in it too, not regular. Thats the analogy of what I just said.

What id love to know, is how many mg's of testosterone aromatise to how many mg's of estrogen, and how much of an inhibition Letrozole would play in this. Speaking of exogenous supplies of tesstosterone of course. It has 99% inhibition in menopausal woman, but thats not of extreme help to a bodybuilder pressing large amounts of testosterone into their system.

Really its risk:reward, on one end the letrozole could inhibit enough estrogen to bring me to levels below what id physiuolocially be at without steroids and such, or it could be ineffective enough and id suffer growth plate fusion. I cant find anything that will give me a definitive answer on this, so im only left to specualte and risk.

[Grant]

I thought you were done with us?

[motoxxxguy]

First yall saying dont take juice, now yall saying hurry the fuck up and do it. Man you people got some issues.

...

Im through with trying to teach FUCKING HANDCIAPPED IDIOTS.

You say you're going to do this anyway, with little or no harm to yourself, so yes, I say get on with it.

The second part was just uncalled for. If you are going to get all bent out of shape because someone either disagrees with you or doesn't understand what you are saying, that's just immature. If you feel someone is disrespecting you, take it up with a mod, but don't start flaming everyone who posted on this thread.

-moto

[Foxy Sphinx]

i can practically guarantee, after reveiwing your cycle, that the amount of anti e's that would be required to prevent epiphysal plate closure would seriously tax your body, and negate hormonal muscle gain...and they still not enough estrogen aromatization to prevent plate closure.

This is the biggest problem i've encountered with this cycle. Wether or not the anti-a coverage would be sufficient.

At one point, I was considering dropping the testosterone all together, as thats whats going to cause the fusion if its going to happen, the EQ will be very minimal in aromatisation, considering its already a low aromatiser when not taken with an anti-a (Letrozole ).

Ive spoken to dozens of scientists, and guru's, from all around the fucking world about this. As I was about to drop the testosterone, a friend of mine who has a degree in both molecular biology and biochemistry seems to beleive that the aromatisation will be minimal even with the 500mg/wk testosterone. Which brought me back to the original, ive been going in loops with this for over a year. Ive emailed many of the doctors in studies done with testosterone and letrozole and GH, yet no one is willing to give me a definitive answer and its pissing me off.

Im going to be contacting the head professors at both UBC and UVIC to hopefully get some more opinions someday soon. And thats all I can get on this aromatisation shit, is opinions, and I HATE opinions.

I may drop to 250mg/wk of testosterone, as id consider that very minimal aromtisation. But I dont know, I seriously dont know what to do here, I refuse to drop all the testosterone, as it plays some role (yet not fully understood) in bone growth.

[Foxy Sphinx]

If you feel someone is disrespecting you, take it up with a mod

LMAO

thats for babies, I dont care enough to contact a mod, half the mods here would love to ban me in a jiffy im sure anyways, and wouldnt lend me their ear for assistance. Infact theres only one mod on this board I think would give me the respect I deserve, and he also happens to be my biggest supporter of this project.

Btw the retard comment was directed towards Grant and Big N.

[Grant]

what did you come on this board for anyway? if you think you know everything why the hell would you post here? I see you have resorted to name calling, a sure sign that you are losing this debate. Its too bad you are letting a retard fluster you. Did your GED exam not go well?

[BUYLONGTERM]

Is it me, or is this thread giving everyone a headache.

[motoxxxguy]

I have a headache.

[Grant]

i have a dull headache because of I am jealous of Foxy, I want to be just like him. I regret finishing high school and college now.

[cjp85]

Your profile says that you are 5'8'' . That isnt short dude. I mean it isnt the tallest, but it isnt short. Also, your profile says you have enough bodybuilding knowledge to gain 15 pounds a week from just food, rest, and training? Well if your profile is completly accurate, are you saying you can gain 840 pounds a year? Come on dude, your a little too obsessed with yourself. All you do is brag about your elite knowledge and your IQ above 140, and on top of all that, your an actor, a model, a singer and so on...... Lets talk some sensible shit about roids here bro. And honestly, your probably gonna look really fucked up after this cycle, so you might want to change your modeling plans with the GH gut your gonna have.

[Grant]

i have a headache from staring at grants cleavage for too long...otherwise, i find the actual DISCUSSION in this thread to be quite interesting....that is the second part of this thread....the first guy posting seems to be looking for attention or something

Hey, its not my cleavage!

[cjp85]

Also, is this really your first cycle?

[octagon]

Nobody stated that? Here's a quote from FOXY himself.

"Ive seen the AAS use in 11 year old studies with no side effects listed other than bone age maturation rate increase (via estrogen aromatase I suspect)

Why in the hell is it up to us to post the study when we aren't the ones stating those facts? Seriously, I'm going to say this ONE last time. "THE PURPOSE OF THE BOARD IS TO HELP PEOPLE OUT WITH QUESTIONS". You can have an opinion, but quit trying to argue with people. I'm seriously getting sick and tired of 18 year olds who think they are indestructable or give opinions that aren't warranted. Most guys on here give real life opinions. I'm also sick and tired of seeing someone asking a question like "How do I run GH and Slin?" and instead of trying to see if the person knows anything about it, I see post saying "run it like this"........THAT IS DANGEROUS! Anyone knows if you don't know what your doing with SLIN it could be fatal. But I don't see any advice directed in that area. Quit trying to argue for the sake of arguing.

i wanted to apologize to buylongterm. i misunderstood what he was writing about and i stand corrected. i thought his "no side effects" comment was a response to a question i had asked. after looking over the posts i realize that he was responding to one of fox's bolds statements.

however my question still stands: foxy has posted copies or links to several studies of young people with AS and with no exceptional side effects noted (nothing different or more severe than we deal with, except epiphyseal plate closure). i'd like to see someone from the other side post a study showing exceptional side effects in young people. there have been enough studies with young people and AS that the answer should be out there.

[JohnnyB]

I didn't see an 11 year old in either one of those.

The dose in your cycle is 4000% times higher then the high dose in that study
" 33-50mg " this was done once a month.

Your credibility isn't to good without those studies.

Foxy your not spoon feeding anyone, your posting the studies to prove that what your saying is fact. So far you've only proven that you give your opinion, not fact(s).

JohnnyB

[BUYLONGTERM]

Octane, no problem bro. All I want to say is lets make this a good debate instead of a piss match.

I have to agree with johnnyb last statement.

[Foxy Sphinx]

I didn't see an 11 year old in either one of those.

The dose in your cycle is 4000% times higher then the high dose in that study
" 33-50mg " this was done once a month.

Your credibility isn't to good without those studies.

Foxy your not spoon feeding anyone, your posting the studies to prove that what your saying is fact. So far you've only proven that you give your opinion, not fact(s).

JohnnyB

Listen bro, unlike everyone else here, I dont care if your a vet, I dont care if your a mod, I dont care if your the owner of this board.

Your status doesnt mean shit for your knowledge to me. Alls it says to me is that you won the popularity contest.

I have NO credibility here, nor am I seeking any. Im simply spreading the facts. You have not given one fact, alls you've given is what some guy told you 5 years ago. Your giving me a concensus, you've not posted 1 single peice of evidence to back up anything your arguing against me with, and until you do, I officially own you in the fields of neuroendocrinology and osteophysiology.

I know its a kick in the nuts to your vet status ego for a cocky 18 year old high school dropout to outsmart you, but hey, you've got all the friends here, im sure they'll give you a hug and backup your ill-informed opinions.

Until some kind of argumentative evidence (not opinion) is posted in this thread by one of you, Im done with it.

BTW -- does your only comeback and attempted argument concern side effects??? Ive alreayd told you im well aware of every side effect... why dont you instead, try to debunk my entire idea of simultaneous triumvirate physique enhancement?

If your gonna try to choke me, why not choke me in the neck, instead of in my finger... just a suggestion.

[Foxy Sphinx]

what did you come on this board for anyway? if you think you know everything why the hell would you post here? I see you have resorted to name calling, a sure sign that you are losing this debate. Its too bad you are letting a retard fluster you. Did your GED exam not go well?

Oh and before im done with this thread for now, I need to reply to my good ol buddy Grant, the guy with no brain who thinks hes got all the game.

I have not lost this debate at all. Infact, ive won it, flawlessly, as Im arguing with fire, your arguing with feces.

Im also not enrolled in any schooling, I havnt for over 3 years. No GED exams son.

[cjp85]

This boards not about winning debates. And as for dissing Grant and Johnny B., you should be banned for flaming which is in the same class as source posting, and you did it twice. I mean you flat out told Grant that he doesnt have a brain. Both these guys have helped inform and send many guys on this board in the right direction. I doubt you have helped anyone. Try not to be such a neusence to the board. Yes, you obviously have a lot of knowledge on steroids and GH, but you are not the only man in the world who knows his shit.

BTW, cute avatar

[100%NATURAL-theGH]

Well this is one heated debate... i must say that there are MANY people on here much more educated than myself so I will not enter into the debate from that stand point. As far as what Foxy is trying to do... he is set in it.. personally I think that if he is going to get anything it will be from the GH... and that he should later on use the AS but that is up to him. I really hope that he changes his mind a little but if not that he comes out ok. You DO REALIZE that he's only 18 and that you might want to approach him and other people on this board with interest and be willing to help before you immediately begin ripping people up... I think that there should be arguments but basically we should be helping eachother and learning from one another... It may sound dumb but it would be nice to read a forum with more of a bodybuilding family feel to it.

[bermich]

I kept seeing this thread pop up under the refresh new search. Had no interest in viewing it. Still dont really have much of an interest in it except DFLOOD has a good comprehension of bio chemistry and molecualr physics. As far as the 18 year old, high school drop out and etc.... Doubt it but I could care less.

I doubt the high IQ as well. Maybe just a FOCUSED INTEREST in ONE CERTAIN SUBJECT.
This board discusses the topic of Anabolics on a daily basis. Use of anabolics is illegal yet, still discussed. So I dont understand why you bring up the fact that what you are doing is illegal and that is why you cant discuss any of your experiments or controls.
Its like someone saying they are huge, brag about their body, yet never post any pics of himself.
Anyway. Im done with this thread. I think I will block it or something.

[JohnnyB]

Listen bro, unlike everyone else here, I dont care if your a vet, I dont care if your a mod, I dont care if your the owner of this board.

Your status doesnt mean shit for your knowledge to me. Alls it says to me is that you won the popularity contest.

I have NO credibility here, nor am I seeking any. Im simply spreading the facts. You have not given one fact, alls you've given is what some guy told you 5 years ago. Your giving me a concensus, you've not posted 1 single peice of evidence to back up anything your arguing against me with, and until you do, I officially own you in the fields of neuroendocrinology and osteophysiology.

I know its a kick in the nuts to your vet status ego for a cocky 18 year old high school dropout to outsmart you, but hey, you've got all the friends here, im sure they'll give you a hug and backup your ill-informed opinions.

Until some kind of argumentative evidence (not opinion) is posted in this thread by one of you, Im done with it.

BTW -- does your only comeback and attempted argument concern side effects??? Ive alreayd told you im well aware of every side effect... why dont you instead, try to debunk my entire idea of simultaneous triumvirate physique enhancement?

If your gonna try to choke me, why not choke me in the neck, instead of in my finger... just a suggestion.

I still would like to see the 11 year old in a study, where is it?

JohnnyB

[BUYLONGTERM]

Listen bro, unlike everyone else here, I dont care if your a vet, I dont care if your a mod, I dont care if your the owner of this board.

Your status doesnt mean shit for your knowledge to me. Alls it says to me is that you won the popularity contest.

I have NO credibility here, nor am I seeking any. Im simply spreading the facts. You have not given one fact, alls you've given is what some guy told you 5 years ago. Your giving me a concensus, you've not posted 1 single peice of evidence to back up anything your arguing against me with, and until you do, I officially own you in the fields of neuroendocrinology and osteophysiology.

I know its a kick in the nuts to your vet status ego for a cocky 18 year old high school dropout to outsmart you, but hey, you've got all the friends here, im sure they'll give you a hug and backup your ill-informed opinions.

Until some kind of argumentative evidence (not opinion) is posted in this thread by one of you, Im done with it.

BTW -- does your only comeback and attempted argument concern side effects??? Ive alreayd told you im well aware of every side effect... why dont you instead, try to debunk my entire idea of simultaneous triumvirate physique enhancement?

If your gonna try to choke me, why not choke me in the neck, instead of in my finger... just a suggestion.

Bro, bro bro!!!! Popularity contest? These guys are VETS and MODS for a reason. If you would take the time to read some of their threads, It's unbelievable. Their knowledge is scary. They blow me away. I'm not kissing any ass, I'm stating facts. you don't become a VET/MOD on this board unless you can back it up. Seriously. Just because you don't agree with these guys, doesn't take one bit of credibilty away from them. You don't have to care, but you do have to respect them while on the board. They won't get into an argument with you because looking at your cycle, one would tend to think it's CRAZY! It doesn't take a MOD to know that. If your 5'8" at the age of 18, what makes you so sure you won't grow a few more inches in the next few years? Why take GH? Have you seen your particular cycle in a study? NO. Its something you've made up. I'm not flaming, I'm just saying quit being so defensive. This entire thread is a pissing match. A lot of the stuff your posting is very interesting. But, can't we all just get along for the sake of knowledge?

[Testify]

You don't become a VET/MOD on this board unless you can back it up. Seriously. Just because you don't agree with these guys, doesn't take one bit of credibilty away from them. You don't have to care, but you do have to respect them while on the board.

Agreed.

Can we let this thread die now?

[TheMudMan]

Bro, bro bro!!!! Popularity contest? These guys are VETS and MODS for a reason. If you would take the time to read some of their threads, It's unbelievable. Their knowledge is scary. They blow me away. I'm not kissing any ass, I'm stating facts. you don't become a VET/MOD on this board unless you can back it up. Seriously. Just because you don't agree with these guys, doesn't take one bit of credibilty away from them. You don't have to care, but you do have to respect them while on the board. The won't get into an argument with you because looking at your cycle, one would tend to think it's CRAZY! It doesn't take a MOD to know that. If your 5'8" at the age of 18, what makes you so sure you won't grow a few more inches in the next few years? Why take GH? Have you seen your particular cycle in a study? NO. Its something you've made up. I'm not flaming, I'm just saying quit being so defensive. This entire thread is a pissing match. A lot of the stuff your posting is very interesting. But, can't we all just get along for the sake of knowledge?

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore but I agree with BLT. JohnnyB as well as a lot of guys on this board have tons of knowledge....

Foxy either get money together and run this cycle so you can back your research or just end this. It's all theory unless you have something to back it with.