If you could train only 1 art.

[BlindShooterSSS]

The one part I hate about boxing is the scheduling.
how sometimes you take a fighter to a fight, just to find out the other guy didnt show, or there is too many fights so they cut a few.
So Im looking for ideas, What would make a perfect boxing show? and how could it be pulled off?

[1Limey]

If i had to choose 1 art it would be muay thai,true most fights end up on the ground but 100% start standing

[ACJiujitsu]

Well actually I am disappointed instead since I am dealing with almost all US people here and I thought BJJ was much more developed!

After all, Gracie's second home country is U.S.A.

Some of Us know what the deal is.

If you were going to train 1 art,it would have to be bjj. alot of people think of BJJ as sport jiujitsu.Thats not how it was intended.If you go to a good/Legit BJJ school you will learn that BJJ was originally a complete self defense system.We have classes where we learn the self defense aspects of BJJ along with the latest inovations in sport BJJ.What good is it to learn an art if you cant use it to defend yourself. For anyone doubting BJJ and its practical applications,just walk into a LEGIT bjj school and tell them of your concerns.Anyone of their blue belts would be glad to show you just how wrong you are.

Greg G
Team Balance South Jersey

[BJJ]

Some of Us know what the deal is.

If you were going to train 1 art,it would have to be bjj. alot of people think of BJJ as sport jiujitsu.Thats not how it was intended.If you go to a good/Legit BJJ school you will learn that BJJ was originally a complete self defense system.We have classes where we learn the self defense aspects of BJJ along with the latest inovations in sport BJJ.What good is it to learn an art if you cant use it to defend yourself. For anyone doubting BJJ and its practical applications,just walk into a LEGIT bjj school and tell them of your concerns.Anyone of their blue belts would be glad to show you just how wrong you are.

Greg G
Team Balance South Jersey

What?????

Either I do not understand what you mean or you totally misunderstood the meaning of my previous post!
In the mean while you try to figure out which answer apply correctly to your thoughts, please have a look of my profile...

[B*R*A*D UK]

kick boxing.

[ACJiujitsu]

What?????

Either I do not understand what you mean or you totally misunderstood the meaning of my previous post!
In the mean while you try to figure out which answer apply correctly to your thoughts, please have a look of my profile...

I think your misunderstanding.I was agreeing with you and then saying that some of us in the USA know exactly what BJJ can do for you. I took your post as saying that some people dont understand the effectiveness of BJJ which is strange because the USA is the Gracies second home....Right????

I said that some of us do

[BJJ]

I think your misunderstanding.I was agreeing with you and then saying that some of us in the USA know exactly what BJJ can do for you. I took your post as saying that some people dont understand the effectiveness of BJJ which is strange because the USA is the Gracies second home....Right????

I said that some of us do

OK then, I am the one who misunderstood since we both agree.
Finally, I have found someone from USA who agrees with me!

[ACJiujitsu]

OK then, I am the one who misunderstood since we both agree.
Finally, I have found someone from USA who agrees with me!

BTW its very impressive that you have attained a black belt in bJJ.Thats my ultimate goal in life.

[BJJ]

BTW its very impressive that you have attained a black belt in bJJ.Thats my ultimate goal in life. I love this sport more than any.I started my BJJ career under Ricardo Almedia and one of his Black belts Bill Scott.I since had to move and went to a Rickson gracie Black belt(joe diamond). Finally after realizing that was not the place for me,i came upon Relson gracie Black belt and Team Balance founder Phil Migliarese and my BJJ mentor Black Belt Rich Komar who runs Team balance Komar(south jersey). I can say that no matter what happens,i will always be a Team balance member. It is by far the best fit for me.They have brought my BJJ game up to where it needs to be as well as been a great friend outside the grappling world,when i needed them(medically). Who did you receive your BJJ Black Belt from?

I am gonna PM you.

[Hack da Squat]

When people think BJJ or Catch Wrestling, submission grappling thay are thinking with MMA rules. You take out those rules and thay become crap against anyone that knows whats coming.

But u see with bjj i just gota get u to the ground i dont need to make u tap out ill brake evrything i can no taping out on the street mate.

[Hack da Squat]

Ground you then pound you

[BJJ]

I'm a Shotokan black belt 3rd Dan. Go to your local shotokan dojo tell them your the shit at Brazilian jiu-jitsu and you want to fight a 3rd Dan see how that works out for you.

But u see with bjj i just gota get u to the ground i dont need to make u tap out ill brake evrything i can no taping out on the street mate.

Do not reply to him, be very careful, he is a 3rd Dan Shotokan man...

[Brown Ninja]

can't you get a 3rd degree Dan Shotokan at any strip mall for $1,500?

[BJJ]

Gracies? over rated....they fought when the sport was in its infancy....hardly compete today with these athletes and now bjj isnt a mystery either, Gracies are great bjj but mma they steady get that ass kicked. FACT

In fact it is the base of every good MMA fighter.
Without well knowing BJJ, thinking to win is a utopia.

[BJJ]

Robbie Lawler
Ryan Bader
Matt Hammill
Phil Baroni
Mark Coleman....The former champ
Randy Couture
Brock Lesnar is the freakin champ and he cant spell BJJ...That proves u wrong with this one name! FACT!!!!!!!!
Rampage Jackson
Chuck Lidell
Kevin Randalman

Everyone of these guys dont know shit about BJJ......This is a fact...And 2-3 of these guys dominated this sport....So take that bullshit BJJ and cram it...That junk worked years ago when no one knew how to defend it...Gracie couldnt pull any of that garbage off today. Look what Matt Hughes did to him...And no Gracie wasnt that old when he fought Matt. Like Chuck says...all that BJJ wont do shit when im blasting you in the face!

Wrestling or Kickboxing skills is the number 1 tool to have!!!!!!!! BJJ is OVER RATED!!!!!!!!

It is clear you know nothing about martial arts.
Kickboxing...

Do you practise any martial arts?

[supermanfw]

catch wrestling all the way

[terraj]

I have some time in a few sytles and I did teach a for a while, boys I trained with fight for a living...one even fought Fedor( believe it or not)...

For me...

For fun grappling. I also see no big diffence between the sub grappling styles...BJJ, catch, shoot, JJ....all the same pretty much.

For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai, at a competetive school...it's insane fitness and is the mot effective art to use in a street fight. People who say otherwise, have not been in many street fights...no disrespect intended.

When I have kids, the boys will wrestle...but, with ear protection.

[BJJ]

I have some time in a few sytles and I did teach a for a while, boys I trained with fight for a living...one even fought Fedor( believe it or not)...

For me...

For fun grappling. I also see no big diffence between the sub grappling styles...BJJ, catch, shoot, JJ....all the same pretty much.

For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai, at a competetive school...it's insane fitness and is the mot effective art to use in a street fight. People who say otherwise, have not been in many street fights...no disrespect intended.

When I have kids, the boys will wrestle...but, with ear protection.

To me there is a deep difference because while with simple grappling you learn how to submit with your limbs only (and your opponent's ones), with bjj you add the use of your own gi and your opponent's one; applied also to clothes. For self defense only, we do train dressed with jeans and shirts or t-shirts or a fake jacket with a tie.
As you may easily guess, there are a multitude of things that can be done comparing to a fighter who ignores how to use in his advantage those things (a grappler for example).

Regarding a street fight, I agree with you if we speak about a multitude of opponents, more than two I mean. However, in that case I believe sanda & bjj together are the best arts a fighter can use against anyone.

But if we speak about a street fight against one or two people maximum, brazilian jiu-jitsu is far more complete and successful than any other martial arts.

[terraj]

To me there is a deep difference because while with simple grappling you learn how to submit with your limbs only (and your opponent's ones), with bjj you add the use of your own gi and your opponent's one; applied also to clothes. For self defense only, we do train dressed with jeans and shirts or t-shirts or a fake jacket with a tie.
As you may easily guess, there are a multitude of things that can be done comparing to a fighter who ignores how to use in his advantage those things (a grappler for example).

Regarding a street fight, I agree with you if we speak about a multitude of opponents, more than two I mean. However, in that case I believe sanda & bjj together are the best arts a fighter can use against anyone.

But if we speak about a street fight against one or two people maximum, brazilian jiu-jitsu is far more complete and successful than any other martial arts.

Judo you also use the Gi. Japanese Jujitsu you also use the gi.

Against two or a much larger foe you will have a much higher risk of not winning when using BJJ or a grappling sytle in a street fight. I think it smarter to strike once or twice and end the fight.


As I said in my first post---For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai,.....this means someone can train for 6 months and become very well armed with skills that would very effective in a street fight...with one or more or larger foe.

I respect your belief of your sytle. But you do sound like somone who has only done one style.....you also sound like someone who is smarter then to proclaim the superiority of one sytle over other without have any experince.

[terraj]

It is clear you know nothing about martial arts.
Kickboxing...

Do you practise any martial arts?

In a couple of posts after the above you claim BJJ and Sanda are the most effective combo....

You do know that Sanda is kickboxing right?

[BJJ]

1 Judo you also use the Gi. Japanese Jujitsu you also use the gi.

2 Against two or a much larger foe you will have a much higher risk of not winning when using BJJ or a grappling sytle in a street fight. I think it smarter to strike once or twice and end the fight.

3 As I said in my first post---For an effective self defence in a very short time peroid - kick boxing or thai,.....this means someone can train for 6 months and become very well armed with skills that would very effective in a street fight...with one or more or larger foe.

4 I respect your belief of your sytle. But you do sound like somone who has only done one style.....you also sound like someone who is smarter then to proclaim the superiority of one sytle over other without have any experince.

1 Sure, but those arts are not meant to fight on the ground, they focus on stood up techniques and self-defense. If I have to deal with a foe, I bring him down first. This is the deal with bjj and that is the reason why it is so effective.

2 Against a larger foe, unless you know how to boxe, the best thing you can do is to bring him on the ground and use his clothes to submit him.

3 6 Months of kick boxing and you are effective against anyone on a street fight? I would like to see that one...
I think it can happen but depends mostly from who the foe is.

4 You are totally correct, I have done only one style, brazilian jiu-jitsu.
I have been training since 20 years in several countries with different foes, many of them brazilians. Also, I trained in the USA and train regularly here in Rome with MMA fighters... believe it or not, after a couple of strikes/kicks/thrusts with elbows/punches/blows with knees attempts, I bring them down and subdue them ALL.
I lost, in time, only against those who also knew bjj.
So, even though I have no experience in directly training other disciplines, I know almost all of them because I train regularly against those who practise those arts. None of them is really effective stan alone.

Just out of curiosity, when I was 6 months into bjj (of course white belt) my instructor gave me the opportunity to train against an Aikido instructor who was 20 years older than me and knew nothing about bjj. He also came to learn...
The fact I had only 6 months of training against his many years of martial art on his shoulders did not help him on the ground since I was the one who used to submit all the times.
What you have previously written about 6 months of training, well apply to brazilian jiu-jitsu. How many martial arts do you know which give to a newbie the opportunity to win against any black belts of another art?

In a couple of posts after the above you claim BJJ and Sanda are the most effective combo....

You do know that Sanda is kickboxing right?

This is a general and wrong interpretation of the styles.
Sanda is an ancient art coming from China derived from Kung Fu Wushu and used in matches called Sanda Wang, still nowadays. The main difference with Kick Boxing refers to projection techniques and the fight body to body which is part of Sanda only.

[bjpennnn]

i would say bjj cuase its my fav but i think it would be muay thai, just becuase i think its so ****en bad ass. i love striking. and my bjj wrestling grappling is pretty good already i am a natural, being a littler guy (shorter) and more stalky i feel like its harder for me to be more natural at muay thai.

[intensityfreak]

We haven't really talked about belts. I took ten lessons from a guy in San Diego before I moved to Dallas, and I am now looking for a place to train out here. He taught me a lot of pretty wicked stuff, like gauging eyes out, ripping out tracheas, breaking knees, etc. I was just wondering if this is a good art to stick with. What this guy taught was "American Street Combat," which was how to defend yourself in every day situations like being jumped by a group, attacked with a knife, or bat, and of course 1 on 1 stuff, but when I asked him specifically what style of training I was learning, he said Okinawan Goju Ryu. His dad taught him since he was in grade school, and by the age of 15, he was teaching marines with his dad, which he now does for free.

dude all the moves you just named derive from krav maga...
krav maga mixed with jujitsu is by far surperior than anything available. ask and special force personal or private military contractor, FBI special agents, and wakenhut private security.. Nothing touches it. reguardless, if your not a punk you can take about 3-6 punches unless some one get lucky and hit the sweet spot. but you can only take one hit to the throat, eye gouge, or chin jab....

[dane.ten]

Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_2003
fights at a bar or whatever rarely if ever go to the ground.....they usually get broken up by the bouncers and/or friends way before that would ever happen....i sometimes work as a bouncer and have done some private security before and am well versed in hapkido (i took tae kwon do, hapkido, and judo throughout high school) so i know i'm not allowed to strike anyone, but when i'm a customer if something happens i want to strike first, strike quick, strike hard!

Because you have never dealt with at least a purple belt BJJ.
One's strikes are totally useless in that case, one may have his own wrist broken before understanding what happened.

Different things if you fight in a bar with people who do not know the meaning of being a martial artist in case, you may find a boxer. Then being good with strikes is important but, try to strike an aikido black belt...

Mr. Mike Tyson never had the chance to meet Helio Gracie, unfortunately!

you obviously like bjj, i dont care how good at bjj you are if you have mike tyson punching hell outa you in his prime, you would not be effect in anyway in bjj,
its not the dog in the fight, its the fight in the dog
muay thai is the don, the speed and discipline of a thai fighter is unbeatable, with kicks like a baseball bat, and elbows like knives, a bjj fighter would not stand a chance. i understand bjj is good, but a muay thai fighter would not let anyone get close enough to want to rub his body up, on the ground.
also i would love to see someone try get a traditional thai fighter into a wristlock, considering they used to dip there hands in broken glass etc...
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/my...aikido-405392/

[BJJ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_2003
fights at a bar or whatever rarely if ever go to the ground.....they usually get broken up by the bouncers and/or friends way before that would ever happen....i sometimes work as a bouncer and have done some private security before and am well versed in hapkido (i took tae kwon do, hapkido, and judo throughout high school) so i know i'm not allowed to strike anyone, but when i'm a customer if something happens i want to strike first, strike quick, strike hard!

Because you have never dealt with at least a purple belt BJJ.
One's strikes are totally useless in that case, one may have his own wrist broken before understanding what happened.

Different things if you fight in a bar with people who do not know the meaning of being a martial artist in case, you may find a boxer. Then being good with strikes is important but, try to strike an aikido black belt...

Mr. Mike Tyson never had the chance to meet Helio Gracie, unfortunately!

you obviously like bjj, i dont care how good at bjj you are if you have mike tyson punching hell outa you in his prime, you would not be effect in anyway in bjj,
its not the dog in the fight, its the fight in the dog
muay thai is the don, the speed and discipline of a thai fighter is unbeatable, with kicks like a baseball bat, and elbows like knives, a bjj fighter would not stand a chance. i understand bjj is good, but a muay thai fighter would not let anyone get close enough to want to rub his body up, on the ground.
also i would love to see someone try get a traditional thai fighter into a wristlock, considering they used to dip there hands in broken glass etc...
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/my...aikido-405392/

Who are you talking to?
Your post is a mess.

[Bigpup101]

I train and have competed for a while now so you would think I would say something like Muay thai or BJJ since I train them both 4-5 hours a day for the last 4 years but If you're going back to stone ages and there are no rules I would have to go with Krav maga..They pull hair, hit and yank the groin. I am a brown belt for american top team and I definitley wouldn't wanna go against a seasoned Krav maga guy with no rules!

[Deltasaurus]

what do u do for a living so u can train 4-5 hours a day? for 4 years?

[Bigpup101]

Sorry, i've trained the both for four years. I have been able to train 4-5 hours a day the past year and a half. I collect unemployment and I work as a bouncer 3 nights a week. I make more now than I ever did working lol. Anyway, my next fight is going to be a pro one is march.

[Deltasaurus]

lucky, i trainned at cassio wernecks in sac for a while now im training locally under one of his brown belts.. I think BJJ would be they was to go. it the art i choose.

thats cool good luck on ur fight. whats ur name?

u train with ATT in florida or cali??

[Bigpup101]

Yea, it's definitely nice. I train with ATT out of Danbury, CT. Mike Brown was there for awhile and I don't know if you remember Dan Cramer? but he trained out of our gym as well. I'll PM you my name =)

[pjpogz]

There's no way in hell you'll go toe to toe and trade strikes with a heavier and much stronger person - you'll just get knocked da f*ck out! The power of your strikes are still dependant on not only technique but how physically strong you are.

But with BJJ/ Grappling, your chances of winning is more dependant on technique rather than strength. I submit bigger and heavier guys in my gym all the time. In fact I actually get a lot of pleasure rolling with big dudes (especially the newbies) since all you have to do is weather the storm and they're bound to get tired after a minute or two. Then that's when I go to work. Lol

But i still think BJJ is not a complete art, you still need to compliment it with a striking arts like Muay Thai, boxing & etc. Plus a bit of wrestling or judo to get them on the ground and control them.

That's why MMA is the toughest sport in the world!

[blackrose9]

Harimau Pencak Silat. Check out Guru Besar Richard Crabbe-De-Bordes on Google. He's trained MOSSAD, CIA and the FBI. If BJJ is such a superior art why aren't the Worlds security services trained in it?

[BJJ]

Harimau Pencak Silat. Check out Guru Besar Richard Crabbe-De-Bordes on Google. He's trained MOSSAD, CIA and the FBI. If BJJ is such a superior art why aren't the Worlds security services trained in it?

They are indeed, inform yourself better!

Pencak is a good art but ineffective against BJJ.
Technically speaking there is no art effective against BJJ, unless you are able to keep the bjj foe standing.

[blackrose9]

They are indeed, inform yourself better!

Pencak is a good art but ineffective against BJJ.
Technically speaking there is no art effective against BJJ, unless you are able to keep the bjj foe standing.

I'm picking up on the fact that you might be slightly biased in favour of BJJ. Lol. The fact is it's a sport not a fighting system. It has rules whereas fighting systems do not. There are no credible arenas for competing in Silat or Wing Chun for example because they have no rules. They are not meant to have rules because the street has no rules either.

To assume BJJ would be effective in a street situation relies too heavily on unlikely situations. For example, how many would be attackers would be alone? It is statistically proven that not many are. Whilst a BJJ practitioner would be awesome on the ground with the attacker, his mates would be watching way too closely and wade in as soon as their mate looks like he is loosing in the altercation.

In a one on one situation it would be 50/50. If an upright fighter could finish it standing up, then it would be game over. If he was taken to ground, he would have had it.

I have trained in several arts over the years. I have trained all my adult life (22 years) and as a child from the age of 7. I have been privileged to have trained and sparred with several incredibly skilled exponents in a huge variety of arts and all have good and bad points when you put a street scenario to them. To boast that no art is effective against BJJ is ridiculous. If you haven't had a chance to already, try and find some skilled exponents of different arts and lightly spar with them. If anyone near where you are trains in Harimau Pencak Silat you might be surprised just hoe effective such a low to the ground fighting system is against BJJ.

I'm not taking anything away from how effective BJJ is on the ground. I have sparred with very skilled BJJ practitioners who stuffed me when it went to ground. I have also sparred with some who couldn't get me there.

A final point, the last time Royce Gracie made the claim that you needed no other fight skills other than BJJ and no system was effective against BJJ he spectacularly got his arm broken and his arse and ego kicked by Matt Hughes.

[BJJ]

I'm picking up on the fact that you might be slightly biased in favour of BJJ. Lol. The fact is it's a sport not a fighting system. It has rules whereas fighting systems do not. There are no credible arenas for competing in Silat or Wing Chun for example because they have no rules. They are not meant to have rules because the street has no rules either.

To assume BJJ would be effective in a street situation relies too heavily on unlikely situations. For example, how many would be attackers would be alone? It is statistically proven that not many are. Whilst a BJJ practitioner would be awesome on the ground with the attacker, his mates would be watching way too closely and wade in as soon as their mate looks like he is loosing in the altercation.

In a one on one situation it would be 50/50. If an upright fighter could finish it standing up, then it would be game over. If he was taken to ground, he would have had it.

I have trained in several arts over the years. I have trained all my adult life (22 years) and as a child from the age of 7. I have been privileged to have trained and sparred with several incredibly skilled exponents in a huge variety of arts and all have good and bad points when you put a street scenario to them. To boast that no art is effective against BJJ is ridiculous. If you haven't had a chance to already, try and find some skilled exponents of different arts and lightly spar with them. If anyone near where you are trains in Harimau Pencak Silat you might be surprised just hoe effective such a low to the ground fighting system is against BJJ.

I'm not taking anything away from how effective BJJ is on the ground. I have sparred with very skilled BJJ practitioners who stuffed me when it went to ground. I have also sparred with some who couldn't get me there.

A final point, the last time Royce Gracie made the claim that you needed no other fight skills other than BJJ and no system was effective against BJJ he spectacularly got his arm broken and his arse and ego kicked by Matt Hughes.

It is just a matter of personal experience.
I see no reason why a good bjj black belt would not be able to bring down to the ground a foe of another discipline. Then, it is just a matter of time...

I practise bjj since 20 years almost and have been training with many different foes who used to practise other disciplines. I lost, over the time, only agaisnt those who knew bjj very well and never against a foe of another discipline only. This is a fact in my life and after so many years I can say it was not only an occasion but a rule.

For your info, just a few weeks ago joined our team an instructor of Krav Maga. After a couple of days of easy training he was sent to fight against a white belt of the same weight, just to show him what bjj is about. He lost.
So, what about his skills? totally useless and he was the first one to declare it in front of everybody.

[BJJ]

A final point, the last time Royce Gracie made the claim that you needed no other fight skills other than BJJ and no system was effective against BJJ he spectacularly got his arm broken and his arse and ego kicked by Matt Hughes.

He was not the Royce of the first years anymore.
Let's see what Matt can do against Renzo in February.

In any case, how Hughes won the match?
Standing or on the ground?
By practising or attempting to practise what art?
An easy question for an easy answer!

[organized_konfusion]

Muay thai!!!!

[Deltasaurus]

^^Id take u down and sub you

[Deltasaurus]

bumping this thread, anyone that posted in here watch or goto the worlds?

also where is war machine?

[AlphaGenetics]

bumping this thread, anyone that posted in here watch or goto the worlds?

also where is war machine?

You train in Sacramento? Do you know Enrique Perez (Rebel Fighter Promoter)? He was my bjj coach for 5 years. How about Cal Worshom?