Successful Competing

[Metalject]

Thanks metal, sound advice.

From what I can gather buy keeping estro under control running test high can keep you looking fuller.

But like you said you need to play this buy ear.

I wasn't sure about running any injectable's the last week but what you said about Mast and Tren makes sense.

I think I've heard you mention running Oxymetholone the last couple of weeks before your comp, I would imagine that you really need to be lean for this to work and have a good grip on estrogen control.

Give that those two factors are right could you tell me how you would you use it and maybe how much you would use.

Cheers.

I'd use 50mg/ed the last 2-3wks. It really doesn't take much.

[gearbox]

I'd use 50mg/ed the last 2-3wks. It really doesn't take much.

why 50 drol the last 2-3 weeks?

[Metalject]

why 50 drol the last 2-3 weeks?

Helps you fill out but you really need to make sure you're in good shape/very lean when you do this and already know how to do the last week prep or you'll risk looking smooth.

[stirated]

why 50 drol the last 2-3 weeks?

I think it helps give the muscles a nice full and rounded look, I've heard you can do the same thing with Dbol but you must be lean and know how to control estrogen.

Metal can probably add more as I have never tried it myself but have heard of guys doing it was some success.

I see metal beat me to it lol.

[oldnsedentary]

Metalject, with respect to dieting and contest prep, how does one know how many calories to consume. Is it a certain number under maintenance? If so, what?

[Metalject]

Metalject, with respect to dieting and contest prep, how does one know how many calories to consume. Is it a certain number under maintenance? If so, what?

I have honestly never counted calories before and don't see a need to. I can tell you this though, there is no such thing as an exact number of calories that you'll be able to hold to the entire time. Say your X number of calories below whatever maintenance is, you will not continue to burn more and more fat, eventually you'll stagnate so more calories have to be burned or less have to be consumed...one or the other.

[oldnsedentary]

I have honestly never counted calories before and don't see a need to.

Wow, seriously? Then how do you do it? I am not being a smart aleck. I am genuinely curious. I do not know how to cut, and I thought counting calories would be pretty much mandatory. How do you know how much to eat?

[Metalject]

Wow, seriously? Then how do you do it? I am not being a smart aleck. I am genuinely curious. I do not know how to cut, and I thought counting calories would be pretty much mandatory. How do you know how much to eat?

Yeah, never counted a single calorie and don't know too many competitors that have. I do know some guys that do but not many. As far as the overall question though, counting or not it's all the same, burn more than you take in, it doesn't matter if you're actually counting. You're also going to be eating the same foods in the same amounts every day, and if you stop losing fat you're going to eat less. I guess overall it's just trial and error over the years, that's the biggest thing, that and going by the mirror...are you losing fat at an acceptable rate or not? If not, fats and/or carbs continue to reduce. Protein never reduces unless absolutely necessary and that's rarely necessary. Personally, I normally consume 50g of protein over the course of 6-7 meals per day. Some diets I do fairly high fat and low carb and others I've done moderate carb and low fat....usually one or the other. As far as the guys I do prep work for, I have around 5 or 6 base diets I use and from there they are simply adjusted for that guy and evolve over the course of the diet.

[kelkel]

I have honestly never counted calories before and don't see a need to.

Neither have I. It would suck all the fun right out of this for me.

[SEOINAGE]

Neither have I. It would suck all the fun right out of this for me.

Right there with both of you.

I have convinced others to count calories, but it was mainly to get them to realize why they weren't losing weight, because they wouldn't reduce their consumption and they were drastically overeating, thinking what they were doing wasn't working because of other reasons.

Closest I have come to counting calories is on my last prime the final two weeks, and even then I didn't count everything, last week I wanted to keep it around 500 cals a day, so knowing roughly how big my patties I made are I could get fairly close, but I know I fluctuated a bit. And it wasn't so much shooting for 500 calories as that was the number that fit about the amount I was wanting to eat, I sometimes would snack on a small piece of cheese or macadamia nut butter before sleep putting me 100-200 higher, but sometimes I was under 500 at that point. I didn't make that decision based on how many calories I had left, I made it based on whether or not I was so starving I couldn't sleep.

[Metalject]

Right there with both of you.

I have convinced others to count calories, but it was mainly to get them to realize why they weren't losing weight, because they wouldn't reduce their consumption and they were drastically overeating, thinking what they were doing wasn't working because of other reasons.

Closest I have come to counting calories is on my last prime the final two weeks, and even then I didn't count everything, last week I wanted to keep it around 500 cals a day, so knowing roughly how big my patties I made are I could get fairly close, but I know I fluctuated a bit. And it wasn't so much shooting for 500 calories as that was the number that fit about the amount I was wanting to eat, I sometimes would snack on a small piece of cheese or macadamia nut butter before sleep putting me 100-200 higher, but sometimes I was under 500 at that point. I didn't make that decision based on how many calories I had left, I made it based on whether or not I was so starving I couldn't sleep.

Prime? What's that?
500kcl a day? That's it?
Help me out here

[SEOINAGE]

Sure. Here is a link to how marcus explains it here on our boards.
The Prime explained before cycling..

I do 4 weeks every so often, this last time it was only 5-6 days at that low of calories, more likely 500-700, and that was only the very end of it. consume more calories throughout, but it is a slow reduction from start to finish usually and taking out carbs about half way. There are multiple ways to do this though. And I don't intend to go as low as I did again, I have a lot more muscle mass now, but I always have a great start afterwards, and a really nice clean rebound. On another board I have friends that use other analogies to better explain this. But you could also partially compare it to the effect you get after a show, I know not exactly the same. Almost like a mini cut, and if you are already lean it can have some advantages going into your cycle.

My intention at this point is to avoid anymore long drawn out pure cuts unless for instance I was preparing for a show. Was cutting for 15 months straight.... (although not exactly relevant, I'll utilize similar structures when doing mini cuts)

[Metalject]

Sure. Here is a link to how marcus explains it here on our boards.
The Prime explained before cycling..

I do 4 weeks every so often, this last time it was only 5-6 days at that low of calories, more likely 500-700, and that was only the very end of it. consume more calories throughout, but it is a slow reduction from start to finish usually and taking out carbs about half way. There are multiple ways to do this though. And I don't intend to go as low as I did again, I have a lot more muscle mass now, but I always have a great start afterwards, and a really nice clean rebound. On another board I have friends that use other analogies to better explain this. But you could also partially compare it to the effect you get after a show, I know not exactly the same. Almost like a mini cut, and if you are already lean it can have some advantages going into your cycle.

My intention at this point is to avoid anymore long drawn out pure cuts unless for instance I was preparing for a show. Was cutting for 15 months straight.... (although not exactly relevant, I'll utilize similar structures when doing mini cuts)

OK, I understand now. I'm aware of people doing this. I was confused because I thought we were talking about contest prep and you mentioned prime and, well I was just confused. Thanks for clearing it up.

[SEOINAGE]

OK, I understand now. I'm aware of people doing this. I was confused because I thought we were talking about contest prep and you mentioned prime and, well I was just confused. Thanks for clearing it up.

Ya sorry to clutter your prep specific thread, was just giving some input on how I don't count calories, yet sort of count.

[jla1986]

great stuff..

[Metalject]

Ya sorry to clutter your prep specific thread, was just giving some input on how I don't count calories, yet sort of count.

No worries, I was just confused. Clutter it up with whatever you'd like

[SOL!D5NAK3]

hello metal i've read almost every post of this thread and loved it,sharing your experience and answering all the questions with patience is just awesome and rare. loved your random tips and thoughts.

[kelkel]

hello metal i've read almost every post of this thread and loved it,sharing your experience and answering all the questions with patience is just awesome and rare. loved your random tips and thoughts.

He imparts invaluable info / wisdom for those looking to compete. A wealth of knowledge, absorb it.

[Metalject]

hello metal i've read almost every post of this thread and loved it,sharing your experience and answering all the questions with patience is just awesome and rare. loved your random tips and thoughts.

Glad you like the thread. Haven't updated in a while with any new stuff, usually do when it pops into my head...been slacking I guess.

[Metalject]

He imparts invaluable info / wisdom for those looking to compete. A wealth of knowledge, absorb it.

Thanks. Honestly I didn't expect anyone to have any interest in this thread when I started it - thought a few people might comment or read it but it seems a few have enjoyed it. As eluded to in the post above I'd like to add more to it but I don't want to repeat and regurgitate the same stuff but it's hard to remember what's already been mentioned.

[SOL!D5NAK3]

i really want to compete in the near future maybe in a year or two, of course not in bodybuilding division cuz of health wise money wise and everything else wise. i really like physique division but yet in my country (iran) there was no show in this particular division until just now.

-do you think physique guys also run test year around or maybe 3-4 cycles(not just test of course) per year + contest preps would be enough ?
-is GH a must for physique athletes?

[kelkel]

Thanks. Honestly I didn't expect anyone to have any interest in this thread when I started it - thought a few people might comment or read it but it seems a few have enjoyed it. As eluded to in the post above I'd like to add more to it but I don't want to repeat and regurgitate the same stuff but it's hard to remember what's already been mentioned.

Repeating is fine. Sometimes when the same thing is repeated in a slightly different structure it will hit home with people, imho.

[SOL!D5NAK3]

i really want to compete in the near future maybe in a year or two, of course not in bodybuilding division cuz of health wise money wise and everything else wise. i really like physique division but yet in my country (iran) there was no show in this particular division until just now.

-do you think physique guys also run test year around or maybe 3-4 cycles(not just test of course) per year + contest preps would be enough ?
-is GH a must for physique athletes?

would you plz share your thoughts on this?

[Metalject]

i really want to compete in the near future maybe in a year or two, of course not in bodybuilding division cuz of health wise money wise and everything else wise. i really like physique division but yet in my country (iran) there was no show in this particular division until just now.

-do you think physique guys also run test year around or maybe 3-4 cycles(not just test of course) per year + contest preps would be enough ?
-is GH a must for physique athletes?

I honestly don't know what the normal is in terms of how long physique competitors are staying on gear, cycles per year, etc. I really don't have any experience with male physique competitors.
As far as GH, it would definitely help with prep but it can be done without.

[Metalject]

Been a while since a fresh post added to the thread, so here you go.

1. Stop worrying about your pump – pumps are not what make a good workout; in fact, they have very little to do with it. As you’re dieting you’re going to be eating less carbs, and as a result, you’re often going to have weaker pumps. This DOES NOT matter and in no way affects the success of your diet.

2. Stop worrying about how sore you are – soreness does make a good or bad workout, it’s simply an after effect that sometimes does or does not happen. Stimulate the muscles, break them down, let them heal and repeat.

But some will still not be able to get their head around this – somehow being sore and miserable has been ingrained in us as the meaning of a successful day at the gym. However, if we look at people that do this for a living (compete) most of them do everything they can NOT to be sore.

3. Stop saying you’re going to do a lean bulk during the first part of your diet or that you want to grow during your diet – first off, I hate the phrase “lean bulk.” I know everyone likes to use it but off-season or dieting, when it comes to gaining size is anyone actually trying to put on fat bulk? More importantly, the only way you’re going to grow and lean out at the same time during your diet (truly and legitimately) is if you use a massive amount of gear. I’m not referring to 1000mg of test and a bunch of Deca and Tren , I truly mean a massive amount of gear. Think 2000mg of testosterone per week along with 1000mg of Deca and well over 10iu of HGH per day just to get things started. That alone is more than most of the competitors or juiceheads here will ever use, not to mention the items I left out. But I can guarantee you every steroid you’ll ever hold in your hand there are tons of competitors that will do just that. Which lends to the age-old question “is competitive bodybuilding really for you?”

4. Stop saying you’re too small to compete – NEWS FLASH – you will always be too small. Meaning, there will ALWAYS be those that are bigger than you, ALWAYS. This is why they have weight classes – you do not have to compete in the Heavy or Superheavy class for your competition to be successful, someone has to win all the other classes. And I’ve lost count how many times I’ve seen a middleweight or light heavy win an overall and equally just as many middle-weight guys. I’ve also seen lightweight guys win the overall but admittedly not as often as middleweight. And it’s often funny to see the bewildered look of the heavier guys, the disappointment and disbelief – more often than not they cannot see how fat they really are. Yes, plenty of bigger guys win out and I’m not saying they don’t but even they are never big enough in their own eyes, never good enough, etc. but that’s bodybuilding, there is no perfection. Moral of the story – do the show, break yourself in and continue to get better. Or alternatively, continue to bulk year in and year out and grow more muscular and fatter by the second.

5. Stop telling yourself “it’s probably OK if I eat this instead” and if you’re working with someone stop asking “can I eat this?” If it’s not part of your diet plan then you can’t eat it – pretty simple really but for some reason very hard for most to accept.

6. “I want to use Testosterone Propionate because it causes less bloat and I always look leaner when I use Prop.” There’s nothing wrong with using Testosterone Propionate , although some, I’d say as much as 1 in 10 will find they have an allergic reaction to it. Nothing severe but the pain and swelling associated with it post injection that can last for days is often due to an allergic reaction to an ester. You can be allergic to any ester, that’s the very reason Testosterone Cypionate was made, because some are allergic to the Enanthate ester.

How it works and why the bloat and leaner argument is ridiculous – Take a testosterone, any testosterone, and it is attached to an ester, any ester. The testosterone hormone does not become active in the body until the ester is removed. Once the ester is removed, regardless of the ester that was attached, you now have the same testosterone hormone.

Why the myth exist:

Reason 1: People tend to use less Testosterone Propionate than they do Enanthate or Cypionate . There is more active testosterone per 100mg of Propionate than per 100mg of the other two but people still tend to introduce less active testosterone when using Propionate. Many base their injections and dosing off of ML or CC rather than MG. Propionate is most commonly found in 50mg or 100mg per ML vials and amps, whereas Cypionate and Enanthate 200-250mg vials and amps. We’ll use the 100mg Propionate and 200mg Cypionate for our example: If you inject 4ml of Cypionate per week you’ve injected 800mg that equates to approximately 520mg-552mg of active testosterone per week. If you inject 4ml of Propionate per week, you’ve injected 400mg that equates to approximately 320mg-332mg of active testosterone. The aromatization, which can lead to bloating and water retention is based upon the amount of active testosterone you have in your body. Because you have less active testosterone with the amount of Propionate you injected, you will aromatize less. It’s not that Testosterone Propionate causes less aromatization, it’s simply the fact that you’ve administered far less testosterone.

Reason 2: It’s very common for people to use large esters in the off-season and short esters during contest (at least that’s the prevailing thought but it’s not as true in real life as many tend to believe). However, when in off-season mode, you are eating more, especially carbohydrates, which alone can cause more water retention and bloat with or without added testosterone. You’re having more cheat meals (most cases) and you are at a higher body fat than you would be 2wks before stepping on stage. With your added large dose of off-season testosterone, this is the perfect mix for bloating and water retention, I do believe, however, many would find it far more manageable by cleaning up their diets. You see it all the time, a guy starts taking more and more AI’s only to still stay too bloated – why? He’s eating too much.

Now enter contest time, your diet is perfect, you’re much leaner and you are even taking an AI. You may be taking other things as well that can have a positive effect on E2 control, such as Masteron . Now introduce Testosterone Propionate – WOW, you’re holding so much less water than you did in the off-season when you were using Testosterone Enanthate and because our brains often only see what’s directly in front of us we came up with the phrase “Testosterone Propionate is a cutting steroid for dieting and contest prep.” We don’t see what should otherwise be obvious. For one reason or another I think we don’t want to see it. But when we understand the very basics of how testosterone works and consider the off-season factors, we can easily see this myth is just a myth. In fact, countless of your favorite bodybuilders, pro and amateur use long ester testosterones during their diet.

7. So when do you switch to Propionate and should you? You could run it the entire diet if you’d like, no one is saying you can’t. If you’re a high dose bodybuilder this isn’t going to make a difference for your injection frequency as you’ll be injecting daily or every other day at best regardless of the testosterone form. But the best time to use it – you may find your testosterone dose needs to go down, you might not be sure but if it is possible this is a good time to switch. You can manipulate the amounts of active testosterone in your body far more so with Propionate than you can the other common forms. If you need to drop it all or at least to the bear minimum this will make it easy to do. But don’t do it just because you planned to do it – you may look worse if you do. Some guys find that when they dramatically cut their testosterone dose they look smaller and flatter on stage than they would have otherwise. This is what is known as Bad News Bears. If this happens all hope is not lost if you’re still in shape. You have your final week to work though and if you’re lean you should still do well. Why? Because conditioning is everything.

8. Still on testosterone – Sustanon 250 or other related testosterone blends. On their surface they sound great. The original idea was to provide a slow steady release of testosterone to a patient while giving him a good boost on the front end and allowing for very infrequent injections. Unfortunately, good will did not fall on the side of favor as it was discovered more frequent injections would be needed in order to control stable levels of testosterone . From that day Organon and others became geniuses in the pharmaceutical and testosterone world “Market the product as containing 4-types of testosterones.” Sounds better and more exciting than one doesn’t it? But when we understand how testosterone works in relation to breaking off esters, this marketing genius becomes a driving force to cash in on a line of testosterone that can be sold at a higher price despite in only containing testosterone, the same testosterone found in the Enanthate and Cypionate forms.

If you’re going to use Sustanon as part of your contest prep, and I’d rather you not, plan on injecting it every other day or at minimum three times per week for your desired weekly dose.

9. Types of Tren – Acetate, Enanthate and Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate (Parabolan ) – as with all steroids that can be attached to an ester, each one carries more or less of the active hormone based on the ester attached. Acetate carries the most Tren on a per mg basis, and while the other two carry less they are very close. The overall function/action of Tren-Enanthate and Parabolan are very similar. However, I would lay the Enanthate version aside and keep the Parabolan on standby.

Trenbolone Acetate hits the hardest and fastest and when prepping for a show there isn’t a lot of time to wait or waste on your steroids kicking in. And if you happen to run into Tren problems it’s an easy fix – discontinue it and it’s out of your system in a few days, not so much with the other two. Secondly, even when attempting to match the actual active Tren from both the acetate and Enanthate versions, I have yet to find an Enanthate version that matches up. I do not know if the Enanthate ester simply responds more poorly to this particular hormone or if it’s just a bunch of bad batches floating all over the world. Good, quality Parabolan doesn’t seem to have this affect so I have to put it in the two spot below Acetate. Parabolan is a good, solid product if you can find it – for whatever reasons there is a lot of counterfeit out there – could be just testosterone or Nandrolone as both are cheap to make or best case it’s Trenbolone Enanthate, but that’s not what you paid for and you’ll often pay more for the Parabolan line. In fact, off the top of my head I can only think of two brands that I would actually trust when it comes to Parabolan.

10. How much Tren do you need (all will be based on Acetate form as that’s the only one worth talking about in detail). 50mg/eod will absolutely produce results if you’re training and eating right. That said, 100mg/eod is where most will find it really can make a transforming difference. The magic spot, this normally begins at 600mg/wk especially if equal parts Masteron are with it. This Tren/Masteron combo seems to have a stronger synergy than just about any two steroid combo, they work so well together. Personal experience – 600mg/wk of Tren and 600mg/wk of Masteron has been my base for years, although I have gone higher. Highest Tren-a would have been 100mg/ed for 700mg/wk along with a few amps of Parabolan thrown in, an amp that carries 50mg of active Tren per amp.. 4 of those per week and I hit 900mg of Tren in total per week and held for around 10wks. Problems? I was always hot but I’m always running hot when dieting but this was more than normal. As a result, sweat more. The only real annoyance, heavier breathing. I’m not one of those loud guys at the gym but I noticed my heavy breathing when pushing heavier weights and struggling a bit would come out sounding like a low growl. Cool yet very amusing – I lost a set once because I couldn’t stop laughing at myself! LOL!

11. Do not listen to black and white advice when preplanning your contest cycle, diet and overall prep. You see this all the time, guys will say you need low testosterone and high everything else or vice versa. They will say “I’d drop all testosterone at X wks out” despite you currently being 16wks, 20wks or 30wks out. Can they predict the future of how you’re going to look in 4 months?

The same can be said of your diet – you can lay out a good diet, a great diet but anyone can do this. There are probably dozens of guys if not more on this board that can lay out a great diet for you. But again, that’s the easy part. Most, 99% will have to let their diet evolve throughout the prep if they’re really going to reach bodybuilding lean. And once again, this is impossible to predict exactly in terms of each and every last calorie 6 months out. But you’ll hear some say this is what worked for them and I’ve done the same when sharing experiences…there’s nothing wrong with this. But you are not them and they are not you, there will often be necessary differences.

12. Men vs. Women – more or less an observation – In my experience it is much easier to work with women than men when it comes to prep. Men tend to second guess everything; they’ll read something online that differs from what they’re doing and they will easily freak out when they do. I’ve had several male competitors become frustrated during prep because things aren’t going as planned only to find out after much prodding that they were not fully following your direction – they were piecing things together from you, online, friends and wherever else they could find it. Sure, this has happened with female competitors too but it’s rare, very rare, at least in my experience.

I’ve also noticed over the years that more men fail to complete their prep than women. In fact, some of the best female competitors I have worked with have families, husbands and kids, work a full time job and still manage to do very well through their prep. Whereas I’ve had numerous male competitors with very little going on in their life, plenty of time for bodybuilding and a relatively stress free life absolutely fall on their face. Anyway, like I said this is just an observation and one I’ve always found a little strange.

[SOL!D5NAK3]

best thread of all times.
as kelkel said invaluable info indeed.

[Metalject]

It's funny, maybe a bit ironic. Before Christmas this past year my shoulder began to hurt pretty bad, same one that always gives me trouble. I had been lifting much heavier than I had in quite awhile, eating more like a bodybuilder than I had in quite a while but the shoulder, specifically the bicep tendon just became too much. My hips had also started to hurt really bad on both sides at the femoral head. When squatting, getting lose was impossible and the more I'd squat the tighter it would get. It started to get very frustrating.

So I really backed off the week before Christmas and even then I could tell that wasn't enough. So I decided to take time off. So I didn't lift at all for 5wks, I could feel I needed it. I did get a massive shot of some corticoids in my shoulder that have helped in the past and increased my cardio a bit simply because I need to do something to keep from going crazy. I've kept my food intake very clean, only two cheat meals in that 5wk period and they were cheat meals most wouldn't call a cheat. In fact, I've been slacking on my eating more than anything. But with the added cardio I've been able to drop a bit of fat, nothing spectacular but it's still always nice to drop some. I think I saw 1.5 abs yesterday morning, lol!

Anyway, this week I did lift twice, upper-body circuit style. The second time was today and I was shocked at not necessarily how week I had gotten (although that wasn't really surprising since I've been averaging 1200 or so calories per day but a few sets in today, and I mean light weight and I was done. I think it's going to take a little longer to get back into full training after a good break than it did in the past. I'd say I have at least two weeks of circuit training I'll need to bore my way through for a bit.

I call it ironic because I've caught myself doing things the past few weeks that I tell others not to do and didn't realize I was doing them at first until I caught myself in the mirror and laughed, lol!
Oh Tren and Masteron , how I miss you!!! Maybe it's about time I reintroduce myself

Alright, this really doesn't have to do with anything else in this thread but since it's a metalject thread I thought this was as good a place as any to vent my frustrations. Honestly, I am a bit concerned that I may not ever be able to lift that heavy anymore without causing injury to my shoulders. It's kind of sad on one hand but that's life, will simply have to enter a new phase in life.

[kelkel]

Slow and steady gets around most injuries Metal. And as you know, there's usually a way to train around most injuries as long as it's not debilitating.
Not necessarily a new phase in life, just a new phase in training.
You'll get there.

[MIKE_XXL]

That gives me a small glimmer of light...i just tore my right pec at 8 weeks out of my show, not sure if i should keep pushing through or just say fuk it...but for now i am pushing forward...

in last 12 months i tore left shoulder tendon, my right ham and groin, my right pec, my right shoulder, my left bicep and then again my left pec after healing the first injury...this is BS at best, but i aint no quitter so stupid as it is and stubborn as it is, i am going to keep pushing, might look a little bit messed up on stage and out of proportion but if i am standing on stage that will be a self accomplishment worth fighting for...

Slow and steady gets around most injuries Metal. And as you know, there's usually a way to train around most injuries as long as it's not debilitating.
Not necessarily a new phase in life, just a new phase in training.
You'll get there.

[EquilibriumZ]

That gives me a small glimmer of light...i just tore my right pec at 8 weeks out of my show, not sure if i should keep pushing through or just say fuk it...but for now i am pushing forward... in last 12 months i tore left shoulder tendon, my right ham and groin, my right pec, my right shoulder, my left bicep and then again my left pec after healing the first injury...this is BS at best, but i aint no quitter so stupid as it is and stubborn as it is, i am going to keep pushing, might look a little bit messed up on stage and out of proportion but if i am standing on stage that will be a self accomplishment worth fighting for...

Oh man how do you walk with all those torn tendons? i d hit some serious recovery!
But hey cant you stimulate your muscle in a different way to get same result without injuries?
Is it worth being injured for the rest of your life?

[lui]

Thanks for this thread, as a "recreational user" i find this information very interesting, it looks like competing is a whole different level.

- Sorry for being captain obvious... but we can take for granted that contest preppers give gear advice and in some cases supply it too for some extra cash, right?

- Lets say you get a new client who wants to compete, what first impression signs tell you he wont get too far? Do you still bother with that kind of people or you just tell them they have no chance?

- What age do you find "too late" to start competing?

- Bonus training question: i train calves, gain strength but almost 0 size added, how is that? im desperate... would gear help? would they be "forced" to grow if i was heavier? could i train them EOD on cycle?

[Metalject]

Thanks for this thread, as a "recreational user" i find this information very interesting, it looks like competing is a whole different level.

- Sorry for being captain obvious... but we can take for granted that contest preppers give gear advice and in some cases supply it too for some extra cash, right?

- Lets say you get a new client who wants to compete, what first impression signs tell you he wont get too far? Do you still bother with that kind of people or you just tell them they have no chance?

- What age do you find "too late" to start competing?

- Bonus training question: i train calves, gain strength but almost 0 size added, how is that? im desperate... would gear help? would they be "forced" to grow if i was heavier? could i train them EOD on cycle?

1. Sure, some prep guys sell gear and some don't. I wouldn't assume all do. That's one of those bodybuilding rumors - people like to think the prep coaches have access to the best gear out there and that they do because they're selling it. Truth is, if it's not crap, meaning it's not fake or underdosed, testosterone is testosterone, there's nothing special about what one man has vs. another. Anyway, I have pointed my clients in the right direction in the past, but even that I wouldn't do anymore. My job is to help you get ready. If you can't get the gear you need or the groceries you need, well that's on you.

2. I can't say I've ever told anyone they have no chance. I might try to talk them into waiting a little longer, say they wanted to do an April show I might try to talk them into doing one in Sept. But I'm fairly confident that most can do well if they'll simply stick to the plan that you're asking them to follow. Sure, if some guy walked in that had never worked out in his life and was just a pile of skin and fat and wanted to do a show in 16wks, you bet I'd be honest with him from the start but I've personally never had that happen. Now as the years went by I did turn away people that I didn't want to work with as I was able to pick and choose a little more. No point in me taking their money if I can't give them my full attention. And I have fired a couple clients mid-diet, but this has only happened twice in 15yrs. Currently I take no one - don't do it anymore and I don't know what it would take to do it again. The right magical person would have to show up I guess.

3. There is no age that's too late to compete. If you can still walk and still workout you can still compete if you want to.

4. Calves are hard, no denying that. I think it may be the single most genetically based body part of all. As for strength, strength and growth do not mean anything, as it seems you have discovered. And if what you're doing now isn't working, well it's not going to start working all of the sudden. Calves were always a struggle for me - heck, they're a struggle for a lot of pros. I tried everything, training them multiple times a week, heavy low rep with squeezes, high rep till I couldn't walk and nothing really worked. What did work best for me, twice a week, two sets of 15 on two exercises, so 4 total sets. Each rep hold for a three count at top and bottom and lower controlled in between. From there, walking on an incline on the treadmill. In all honesty though, I think the treadmill did more for them than anything else.

[lui]

1. Sure, some prep guys sell gear and some don't. I wouldn't assume all do. That's one of those bodybuilding rumors - people like to think the prep coaches have access to the best gear out there and that they do because they're selling it. Truth is, if it's not crap, meaning it's not fake or underdosed, testosterone is testosterone, there's nothing special about what one man has vs. another. Anyway, I have pointed my clients in the right direction in the past, but even that I wouldn't do anymore. My job is to help you get ready. If you can't get the gear you need or the groceries you need, well that's on you.

Gear is usually a taboo. Do you wait for the guy to mention it (if he ever does) or you just talk about it straight away? Did you ever get any unexpected reaction? Like people willing to compete but not willing to use it.

Good job on this thread!

[Metalject]

Gear is usually a taboo. Do you wait for the guy to mention it (if he ever does) or you just talk about it straight away? Did you ever get any unexpected reaction? Like people willing to compete but not willing to use it.

Good job on this thread!

It depends. If it's a seasoned competitor, you already know he's using gear. It doesn't have to be asked, you just give them the plan. If it's a newbie, it comes up. I might bring it up or I might not, just depends on the situation and what they're wanting to do. But I've never pumped a bunch of sunshine up anyone's but and told them they're going to kill it if they stay natural just to tell them what they want to hear.

[bsterling]

Hey Metal, I have a show coming up and you talk about running oxy for some size during the last few weeks. I am about 3 weeks from the show and am taking 50 winny oral and 30dbol oral / day. Is this unheard of with any of the clinets you trained. I know I don't have hold water with dbol the driest I've ever been is when I was on this oral. I was just wondering about the what you thought about the toxicity on this? Is this something I can manage for the last 3 weeks pre contest? I am at about 5.5% right now and am going to be dieting hard into the show. I did my body comp with Lange Calibers using the Jackson-Pollick 3 site test.

Thanks for your time man!

[Metalject]

Hey Metal, I have a show coming up and you talk about running oxy for some size during the last few weeks. I am about 3 weeks from the show and am taking 50 winny oral and 30dbol oral / day. Is this unheard of with any of the clinets you trained. I know I don't have hold water with dbol the driest I've ever been is when I was on this oral. I was just wondering about the what you thought about the toxicity on this? Is this something I can manage for the last 3 weeks pre contest? I am at about 5.5% right now and am going to be dieting hard into the show. I did my body comp with Lange Calibers using the Jackson-Pollick 3 site test.

Thanks for your time man!

Your liver enzyme values will be sky high during this time if using both Wintrol and Dbol. Enzyme values being high doesn't automatically mean liver damage though, but it does mean there is stress that could potentially lead to liver damage. But will it? If you're otherwise in good health probably not. Personally I wouldn't care for Dbol at this stage but whatever works for you.

[bsterling]

What would you suggest for supplementation to aid in liver support? I am currently using NAC, do you have any other suggestions?

Also, what would be some signs and symptoms that I should look for due to elevated enzymes. So far even my appetite hasn't even faltered.

Thanks for the input Metal, it means an incredible amount to get advice from you.

[MR-FQ320]

Milk thistle ?

[bsterling]

Metal,

If I may, what would be a good dose of Adex for the last 2 weeks to drop me e down to where I need it to be? .75mgs/day?

Thanks

[Metalject]

Milk thistle is the only thing I've ever used, and even that has been sporadic. Enzyme levels have been pretty high at times, but no damage and they always go back to normal.

I always took 1mg/ed the last two weeks.