Extreme Bodybuilding Gear Use!!!!

[hankdiesel]

I know my top guys usually cruse at 1gm per week...not necessarily what i recommend, but they are trying to turn pro and thats what it takes...

cruise on 1 gram.....why? Less than half of that will keep test levels way above normal range. That is wreckless behavior, unnecessary, and what I would call major abuse.

[< <Samson> >]

cruise on 1 gram.....why? Less than half of that will keep test levels way above normal range. That is wreckless behavior, unnecessary, and what I would call major abuse.

IMO it would not make a huge difference positively to your health if your cruising on half a G to a G - it's a ton of gear to keep a ton of muscle

[marcus300]

cruise on 1 gram.....why? Less than half of that will keep test levels way above normal range. That is wreckless behavior, unnecessary, and what I would call major abuse.

Agreed, many I know use nothing like that but there are exceptions but overall they don't

[Times Roman]

Somewhat hard to say. There have certainly been some deaths but most are still alive. The rate of death doesn't seem to be any better or worse than any other segment of the population.

I would have to say it's too early to tell. The first real generation of heavy aas users are from when? 60's and 70's. In order to properly answer that question, we would have to wait for that generation to die off, compile the death rates, and then compare them to the general population at large.

If I had to take a stab at an answer, I would imagine the death rate to be maybe ten years earlier than the general population at large. Reasons would be obvious...

prolonged exposure to high blood pressure
prolonged exposure to high RBC / hematocrit
prolonged exposure to a lifestyle that has to financially support a very expensive habit that costs for some, upwards of thirty or forty thousand a year. Imagine what some have to do to financially support this overhead?
prolonged exposure to a lifetime of taking UGL products and all the inherently unhealthy contaminants that result from using UGL

just look at each of the negative sides of steroid use , and then imagine a thousand guys exposed to this for forty years.

What do you think the odds are of them living an average lifespan?

[MIKE_XXL]

cruise on 1 gram.....why? Less than half of that will keep test levels way above normal range. That is wreckless behavior, unnecessary, and what I would call major abuse.

Like i said it is not what i recommend, but these guys have a mind of their own, they feel if they cut out the orals they are good to go...keep in mind the people i am referring to are literally knocking on the pro card level...i still dont condone it but there is only so much i can do as a trainer...i cruise on 250mg of test per week...and by cruise i mean TRT...we are talking about guys at 8%BF at 287lbs...that is insane...using 20ius of GH on top of that...i do what i can to keep my clients healthy but at times my hand are tide...

[Metalject]

I would have to say it's too early to tell. The first real generation of heavy aas users are from when? 60's and 70's. In order to properly answer that question, we would have to wait for that generation to die off, compile the death rates, and then compare them to the general population at large.

If I had to take a stab at an answer, I would imagine the death rate to be maybe ten years earlier than the general population at large. Reasons would be obvious...

prolonged exposure to high blood pressure
prolonged exposure to high RBC / hematocrit
prolonged exposure to a lifestyle that has to financially support a very expensive habit that costs for some, upwards of thirty or forty thousand a year. Imagine what some have to do to financially support this overhead?
prolonged exposure to a lifetime of taking UGL products and all the inherently unhealthy contaminants that result from using UGL

just look at each of the negative sides of steroid use , and then imagine a thousand guys exposed to this for forty years.

What do you think the odds are of them living an average lifespan?

All good points.
The average life expectancy is around 70yrs worldwide. A lot of the 60's & 70's bodybuilders are knocking on that door now so time will tell. Of course, if you take out the life expectancy of many third world countries, especially those in Africa, the life expectancy goes to 80+ years. Since the vast majority of bodybuilders come from the U.S. and Europe I guess we can return to this conversation in about 20yrs and see how it panned out

[hankdiesel]

Like i said it is not what i recommend, but these guys have a mind of their own, they feel if they cut out the orals they are good to go...keep in mind the people i am referring to are literally knocking on the pro card level...i still dont condone it but there is only so much i can do as a trainer...i cruise on 250mg of test per week...and by cruise i mean TRT...we are talking about guys at 8%BF at 287lbs...that is insane...using 20ius of GH on top of that...i do what i can to keep my clients healthy but at times my hand are tide...

of coarse it is not on you, it's on them.

[Times Roman]

All good points.
The average life expectancy is around 70yrs worldwide. A lot of the 60's & 70's bodybuilders are knocking on that door now so time will tell. Of course, if you take out the life expectancy of many third world countries, especially those in Africa, the life expectancy goes to 80+ years. Since the vast majority of bodybuilders come from the U.S. and Europe I guess we can return to this conversation in about 20yrs and see how it panned out

you need to compare apples with apples.

if you want to know the impact long term AAS use has on those that live in highly industrialized countries, then you really only should look at the death rates from those countries.

What they do in other countries may not be the same as what we do in our country.

Let me explain.

When I lived in Afghanistan, securing legit pharm grade test/(tren )/deca is absolutely no problem. you just walk in and order it. So the need to expose oneself to the bullshit we have to endure because of the contaminants found in UGL is non applicable. this could be a big issue in the USA and a non issue in this non industrialized country.

So in this example, the impact AAS would have on those in the bodybuilding community in the USA would be greater than on those in Afghanistan.

If you want a real good comparison, only compare people that live within the same conditions that we have here.

[Times Roman]

^blows your mind, doesn't it?

cleaner drugs in Afghanistan than in the good ol' USA?

[tice1212]

Just read this figured it would go well with this thread http://www.t - nation.c om/steroids/...e-really-using

Hey guys sorry the link won't show up if u put it up all in one link.. U have to put take away the space between t- and nation and the space between c and om. ADMIN put up the post below for all to read!

[Metalject]

Link doesn't work, at least not on my end

[*Admin*]

Several have said they can not pull this up so here it is...

This is a copy of the article from the link posted above- All Credit for the article goes to Shadow Pro written for *********.


Steroids: What Pro Bodybuilders Are Really Using
by Shadow Pro For *********

The-real-cycles-of-bodybuilders
Here's what you need to know...
•A pro bodybuilder could spend $8,000 to $20,000 for a 16-week competition cycle.
•Most pros are regularly monitored by trusted doctors who know exactly what they're using.
•Most health issues and deaths associated with bodybuilders are related not to steroid use but rather recreational drug use. That being said, diuretics and insulin can get a bodybuilder into trouble.
•This article contains the real drug cycle of a professional bodybuilder. Do not attempt it.
Editor's Note: T Nation was approached by an IFBB pro bodybuilder who wanted to write anonymous articles for us as well as answer questions honestly in our steroid forum. After verifying his identity we decided to give him a platform. "Shadow Pro" was born.
The Truth
Ampules
Remember those heated debates you heard as a kid about whether or not pro wrestling was real? Well, when I first started bodybuilding there were people actually arguing about whether or not the pros used steroids and other drugs.
Really.
You can't blame them (entirely). The magazines at the time never said a word about steroids and the pros of course couldn't be forthright when someone was brave enough to ask. It was a huge secret... and yet it really wasn't.
Today things have changed, but I still hear a lot of lies and misconceptions about steroid use in professional, amateur, and "natural" bodybuilding.
Related:  How Natural is Natural Bodybuilding?
Most of this comes from online rumors and internet "gurus" throwing around nonsense. I want to set a few things straight about the real cycles used by pros and top amateurs.
An Inside Peek
Syringe
First, let's talk about health. Yes, we care about that. Most of us at least. Perfect diet and supplementation play a huge role in keeping us healthy while on a cycle. If we eat like shit and neglect our health, then we can expect to look like shit on stage.

I usually take time off each year. And I take precautionary measures to make sure my health stays on track. Throughout the year, on and off cycle, I get regular blood work done to make sure my levels are in range.
With private doctors you can pay for any testing without questions being asked. Once you build a relationship with a doctor, you can be very straightforward with him about what you do. Then you can be monitored accordingly throughout the cycles.
Most of the top pros have doctors that are trustworthy. Take into consideration they've been doing this for many years. Over time they eventually find a good doctor who understands what they do and works with them, not against them.
I've been fortunate enough not to have any serious health issues. When blood tests are taken during a heavy cycle, the liver and kidney values can sometimes come back out of range. But after my PCT and after I drop the orals, everything comes back to normal within a few weeks.

Recipe for Disaster
Emergency The only people who I've seen suffer from serious health issues are combining steroids with recreational drug use or narcotic painkillers. It's a recipe for disaster.
Usually if they're taking juice and being smart about it, they won't have major issues. Genetic factors may also make them predisposed to certain health issues but this will happen regardless of their steroid use.
I think any steroid – or any other drug for that matter – can put you at risk if it's abused. That being said, if I had to pick one area that can get competitive bodybuilders into trouble it's diuretics. When you get close to a professional level show, the body is already in a vulnerable state at that point.
But people take diuretics for years for blood pressure purposes without any issue. If the drugs are being used intelligently then any risk can be avoided. The only problem is when they're abused and overused before a show.
Insulin is very dangerous if the bodybuilder is uneducated. If you really know what you're doing, you can use it safely. But if you're using it for extended amounts of time and not following appropriate protocols you can run into fatal issues.
If you don't know what you're doing and you take too much you can actually die, but it's not the actual drug that's dangerous – it's the uneducated use.

Bodybuilders "Dying of Steroid Use"It does not happen. This is a big misconception and the most moronic thing I've ever heard.

The media likes to blow up stories like this and blame steroids immediately, without any kind of investigation into the subject. The people who are writing these stories have no educational background in sport. There has yet to be any kind of proof that the reason for death was purely from steroid use.

Related:  Steroids: The Birth of a Demon
Then again, when you look at the government officials who made prohormones illegal, it just goes to show you the kind of idiots who are making the decisions about our lives.
Of course, there are stupid people out there. I knew a bodybuilder taking 36 IU of GH every day, up to 5-6 grams of oils every week, and 100 IU of insulin everyday. Those are crazy amounts – very extreme.
I honestly think the dumbest thing bodybuilders can do is go out on the weekend and abuse recreation drugs while on a cycle. It puts them at a huge risk for health issues.

The Price of Being Juiced
Cash Bodybuilding isn't exactly a sport people get into if they want to make money. It's not the NFL unfortunately.
In most cases, a pro bodybuilder could spend more on a competition cycle than he or she can win at the show! I compete in bodybuilding because I love the sport; it's not for fame or fortune.
As a professional bodybuilder, I've spent $20,000 for 16 weeks. This was my most expensive cycle and it was mostly due to the GH for this particular run.
Somewhere in the range of $8,000 to $15,000 would be more typical for someone at my level. It all depends on the price of GH. I get mine from the pharmacy so it's always pricey.

A Pro Bodybuilder's Cycle
Biceps So what do top bodybuilder's use and how much? I'll tell you.
Just keep in mind that this is not a "how to" or a prescription, just an honest look at what's really being used by pros. An actual cycle is very individual and should be changed according to individual needs.

16-Week Cycle: General Usage
1.Cut long esters at 6-8 weeks out and switch to short-acting compounds.
2.Increase anti-estrogens as the show get closer in order to get harder and dryer. This is where a lot of people fail because of lack of knowledge on the subject.
3.Testosterone should be cut anywhere between 2-4 weeks out. Some people can get away with going all the way to the show but it really depends on the person. If they're going for a very hard and dry look, then likely they'll cut it earlier.
4.Make sure supplementation is on target during the cycle to protect your health. I use liver support supplements, Flameout, Curcumin, etc.
5.Simplicity is the key; a cycle doesn't need to be fancy. If a bodybuilder is not advanced or experienced – and most who think they are actually aren't! – he should go with a lower dosage.

16-Week Sample Cycle: Moderate to High Dosage
Steroids
This is an example of a common pro-bodybuilder cycle. It's something I've done before and I do not recommend this for anyone!

1-10 Testosterone Enanthate , 750mg a week (1000-1200mg advanced)
1-10 EQ, 800mg a week (1000mg advanced)
1-10 Tren E, 600mg/week (800mg advanced)
1-8  D-Bol, 50mg every day (up to 100mg advanced)
10-16 100mg Testosterone prop EOD (100mg ED advanced)
10-16 100mg Trenbolone Acetate EOD (75-100mg ED advanced)
10-16 100mg Masteron propionate EOD (100mg ED advanced)
10-16 50mg Winstrol or Anavar ED (sometime I do both)
8-16 Start T3 at 25mcg ED and taper up as needed.
12-16 Halotestin , start at 20mg ED and increase by 10mg every week (not a good choice for those who aren't mentally strong.)

Pharmaceutical GH 6-12 IU ED for the whole cycle (If people can afford more then the sky is the limit. I know guys who've gone up to 30 IU but this is rare.)
Insulin For advanced lifters only! 5-10 IU pre-workout followed by drinking Plazma™ right away. This is a moderate dosage, a lot of guys are using much more.

When to cut insulin is very individual and depends on conditioning, water retention and the amount of carbs the bodybuilder is eating. It could be run straight through or cut out in the weeks prior to the show and possibly reintroduced later on.

Clenbuterol is on option starting at 6-8 weeks out. Most start low, 20-40mcg.

Anti-Estrogens

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen ): 20mg ED for the whole cycle, taper up if needed starting at 6 weeks out.

Arimidex for the whole cycle starting at 1mg EOD and taper up as needed from 6 weeks out.

Provironstarting at 8 weeks out at 25mg ED and taper up as the show gets closer, up to 100mg ED.

Note: This doesn't cover the last week. The peak week is very complicated and not easily generalized so I didn't include it.

Anyone doing a cycle like this is very advanced and knows that the final week will change from show to show. There's no set plan for it. If someone gives you a set plan for your last week without looking you over and making changes based on how you look, he's an idiot.

Best Tip for Gaining in the Off Season
Humalog and Plazma combination: 5-10 IU 10 minutes pre-workout followed by 2-3 servings of Plazma. (Not for beginners!)

[Joco71]

This is a great thread!! I always wondered about these things, I think you need to be bat shit crazy to put that much gear in your body. I understand both views of Marcus, TR and Metal I think its a crap shoot. For one there is a huge difference in taking 500mgs a week of test which is common for most gym rats doing gear. But to start taking 2 or 3 compounds running 2 or 3 grams a week. I just don't see it among regular guys not to mention the money and risk involved. The fear of the unknown I think would scare most. If it doesn't it should!!

[tice1212]

Thanks admin! Guys that's the link admin put up.

[Metalject]

This is a great thread!! I always wondered about these things, I think you need to be bat shit crazy to put that much gear in your body. I understand both views of Marcus, TR and Metal I think its a crap shoot. For one there is a huge difference in taking 500mgs a week of test which is common for most gym rats doing gear. But to start taking 2 or 3 compounds running 2 or 3 grams a week. I just don't see it among regular guys not to mention the money and risk involved. The fear of the unknown I think would scare most. If it doesn't it should!!

Risk is an important word to consider and measure, but that's true with a lot of things in life. In business, most are never hugely successful because they are too scared to take a risk. Most people want a decent paying job with as many benefits as they can get, and while they may often do well with that they're never going to be truly rich. Then there are those few who take the big risk, many fail and some succeed. Big gear use is no different, in my opinion. There are risk, the reward for taking the risk isn't worth the risk to most. For some it is worth it. For those that take it, the reward won't be that great, they may even fail, but some won't. That's just life.

[SOL!D5NAK3]

Most pro bodybuilders take one of two approaches:

1. Take a lot of everything and then come off everything for a short time. A lot of guys do this, more than seems to be commonly thought. And by take nothing, I mean take nothing. Most won't train during this phase either. Definitely a better option than option two.

2. Take a lot of everything and then take a lower dose of testosterone but still a high dose.

That's pretty much it.

how long they will stay off? a month ? and after that they get back on every thing or just test ?

i read somewhere that phil heath grows into a show like this, same as kevin levrone.

[Far from massive]

I think that its going to be really hard to see what the affects of huge amounts of steroid use over the long term due to all the other factors at play.

On top of the AAS most of these guys are also using huge amounts of Slin, Growth, Thermogenic's, Diuretics, Serm's, Sarm's etc. then on top of that you have huge amounts of protein being ingested year round, severe dieting pre-contest, and often severe strain on the heart due to heavy squats. I am sure I have missed a bunch of other factors but clearly there way to many other lifestyle factors to allow us to blame steroids alone.

[< <Samson> >]

I think that its going to be really hard to see what the affects of huge amounts of steroid use over the long term due to all the other factors at play.

This is how it is with just about every type of use - especially nower days

People use everything under the sun - so one thing isn't to blame


Juice is the same - people are on so much shit as time passes you can't really determine what did what - or if something caused a long term contradiction with something else