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  1. #1
    Scarface69 is offline Associate Member
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    Exclamation Pro/Carb or Pro/Fat [Cutting Diet]

    I'm currently on a cutting diet. 200 lbs, 5'9, 10% BF.

    I workout early in the day, 8am. and I can have 2 meals before my workout (pro/carb and pro/fat). the 2 meals consists of:

    1) 10 egg whites / 1 cup brown rice / 1 scoop whey
    2) 2 scoops whey / 1 tablespoon flax oil

    my question is, which is better to consume first and why, the pro/carb or pro/fat ??

  2. #2
    Prada's Avatar
    Prada is offline Anabolic Member
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    Its important to have glycogen stores full prior to working out. Therefore it is important to have cabs Pre and post workout. In my case I even have peri-workout.You have to factor in your daily required macros and your intake.

  3. #3
    Scarface69 is offline Associate Member
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    anyone else?

  4. #4
    Phate's Avatar
    Phate is offline Got Diet? ~VET~ AR Hall of Famer~
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    i agree with prada, i would eat the pro/fat first and the pro/carb before workout for this reason

    This study is entitled "Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise." Let me tell you, this study and the group that conducted it are the real deal. The members of this group are the true pioneers in the measurement of the interaction between exercise and protein metabolism (synthesis and breakdown) as theyíve consistently provided high quality research showing how to maximize protein synthesis and minimize protein breakdown during and after exercise.

    The post-workout knowledge that we have today is due in large part to this groupís amazing studies. So after going over the full text article several times with my "fine-toothed comb," Iím not surprised to report that this study is as tight as my girlfriendís perky little be-hind.

    Hereís the scoop. Researchers brought subjects into the lab the night before the study was to begin and had them fast from 10pm until the next morning. Starting at 6am the next day, subjects were poked and prodded until 8am. During this time, the subjects had catheters inserted into their leg and arm, four blood samples taken, and one muscle biopsy taken. But the fun was just beginning!

    Then the subjects performed an intense leg workout from 8am to 9am. This workout consisted of ten sets of eight rep leg presses and eight sets of eight rep leg extensions. During this time, four blood samples and one muscle biopsy were again taken. Next, from 9am to 11am, subjects laid around the laboratory and gave up eight more blood samples and two more muscle biopsies for a grand total of sixteen blood samples and four muscle biopsies. I know what youíre thinking, "Where can I sign up?"

    Anyway, the purpose of all this blood letting was to measure muscle blood flow, plasma insulin levels, plasma amino acids, skeletal muscle uptake of amino acids, skeletal muscle protein synthesis, and skeletal muscle protein breakdown. The researchers were trying to determine whether an orally administered beverage containing six grams of essential amino acids and 35 grams of carbs (this is the composition of the beverages used in all of their studies) was more effective when given before exercise (PRE) or after exercise (POST).

    Now that you have a little basic background on this rather painful study, letís talk about the surprising results:

    1) During exercise, blood flow to the legs increased significantly in both groups. However, in the group that drank the beverage before exercise, blood flow increased to a much larger extent (323% increase) than in the group that drank their beverage after exercise (200% increase). Even up to one hour post-exercise, this increase in blood flow remained 66% higher than baseline in the PRE group compared with the POST group (28% higher than baseline).

    At two hours post-exercise, the blood flow was back to normal in both groups. This is important because a large increase in blood flow thatís saturated with amino acids may lead to more amino acid uptake and eventually, more protein synthesis.

    2) Over the course of the entire study, phenylalanine (a representative amino acid used in protein measurement) was taken up by the muscle to a much larger extent in the PRE group (208mg) than the POST group (81mg). This could be due to the increased blood flow discussed above. One important note here is that not all aminos taken up by the muscle are used in protein synthesis.

    3) The total amount of the amino acids taken up by the muscle that were actually used in protein synthesis was 180mg for the PRE group and 39mg for the POST group. This indicates that in the PRE condition, most of the aminos taken up were used in protein synthesis (87%) while in the POST condition only 48% of the aminos were used for protein synthesis. It also means that the PRE condition lead to a 351% greater increase in protein synthesis relative to the POST condition.

    4) Of the amino acid drink (six grams of orally ingested amino acids, of which 930mg was phenylalanine), about 22% was taken up by the leg muscles during the PRE condition while only about 8% was taken up during the POST condition.

    5) There were no differences in protein breakdown between groups.

    6) In the PRE group, total protein balance (synthesis-breakdown) was negative at rest, quickly became positive during exercise and one hour after exercise, and returned to zero balance two hours after exercise. In this group, protein balance was a whopping 115 times higher than rest during exercise and one hour after exercise. In contrast, in the POST group, protein balance was negative before and during exercise, became positive one hour after exercise (35 times higher), and returned to zero by the second hour.

    So, with these data presented, Iíd like to make one point before discussing how we can use this study to our advantage. First, although the pre-workout drink seems to kick butt compared to the post-workout drink, itís important to recognize that if no drinks were taken at all, protein balance would be negative for all the measurement periods examined here. Remember, with no pre or post-workout nutrition, a highly negative protein balance is seen before, during, and after exercise. So clearly, some kind of pre or post-workout nutrition is necessary to build muscle.

    Now, what does all this mean to us? In order to stress the importance of these data, I want to say that Iíve changed my own personal workout drink consumption (with great results) based on this brand new info! In the past Iíve recommended post-workout drinks like Biotest Surge that consist of the proper ratios of carbs, hydrolyzed proteins, and amino acids to achieve an intake of 0.8g of carbs and 0.4g of protein/kg of body mass (see my "Solving the Post Workout Puzzle" articles, part one and part two). For me, this meant one drink of 72g carbs and 36g of hydrolyzed protein.

    However, with these new data, Iíve been splitting this drink up into two drinks, each containing 36g of carbs and 18g of hydrolyzed protein. I now consume one of the drinks either immediately before I begin lifting weights (within five minutes) or during my training. I then drink the other one immediately after training.

    Since the study above showed positive protein balances with both a pre-workout and a post-workout drink, I believe that consuming the appropriate nutrients both before (or during) exercise and then repeating this again after exercise will contribute to an additive, if not synergistic, increase in protein synthesis, leading to enhanced muscle growth.

    For Biotest Surge users, this means splitting up your normal serving size into two drinks and consuming one just before or during exercise, and one just after exercise. Then all you have to do is kick back while you synthesize proteins at an alarming rate!

  5. #5
    Scarface69 is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks phate...thats excatly what i wanted to know!!

  6. #6
    Scarface69 is offline Associate Member
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    One more question, is it ok to eat greens in a pro/fat meal ??

  7. #7
    Phate's Avatar
    Phate is offline Got Diet? ~VET~ AR Hall of Famer~
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    yes, with the exception of things like carrots, beets, the veges that have higher sugar content, but veges can be eaten anytime as their impact on blood sugar and the amount of calories in them is negligible

  8. #8
    200byjune's Avatar
    200byjune is offline Senior Member
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    wow phate great post. how new is that study?

  9. #9
    Scarface69 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by phate186 View Post
    yes, with the exception of things like carrots, beets, the veges that have higher sugar content, but veges can be eaten anytime as their impact on blood sugar and the amount of calories in them is negligible
    what about tomato, cucumber, spinach, green beans??

  10. #10
    200byjune's Avatar
    200byjune is offline Senior Member
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    green beans are great along with brocoli

  11. #11
    Phate's Avatar
    Phate is offline Got Diet? ~VET~ AR Hall of Famer~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarface69 View Post
    what about tomato, cucumber, spinach, green beans??
    all those are fine

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