help me shred weight naturally :)

[gbrice75]

Hmm ok now this has really confused me now. When I came to these forums I was told that according to my pics and stats, i would need to do heaps of cardio and get my diet in check before i start on weights..

I'm quite confused. I thought the best way for me to do it would be to do cardio and eat minimal carbs to thin myself out, then start weights. If I was to do weight training, wouldn't I need to base a diet around this? I thought for now = low calories, minimal carbs; loose weight, then later on high calories, high protein, high carbs; gain weight/muscle. I didn't think we could combine these

Are you SURE that's what you were told? Or did you post in the AAS section looking to run a cycle, and they told you to get your diet sorted out before you even considered anything like that?

Yes, cardio is a definite - i'm not saying you shouldn't do it. Cardio in conjunction with a solid workout regimen will do great things for you with regards to fat loss. If what you're saying is true, I'd like to know specifically who gave you that advice.

Weights + Cardio + Diet = success. They work synergystically. You do not need to have one in check before the others.

You can still do relatively low carbs - base them around your weight workout so they're put to good use. Protein/fat meals the remainder of the day. Don't worry AS MUCH about carbs vs. fats vs proteins, and be more concerned with overall calorie consumption, calories in/calories out, etc. At 30% + bodyfat, you'll make strides with your body even if you're just a little dialed in.

I'm sorry if you've been given conflicting information and it's confusing you. I stand by everything I said above and would be surprised if anybody here disputes me on this - but feel free.

[joshh]

Are you SURE that's what you were told? Or did you post in the AAS section looking to run a cycle, and they told you to get your diet sorted out before you even considered anything like that?

Yes, cardio is a definite - i'm not saying you shouldn't do it. Cardio in conjunction with a solid workout regimen will do great things for you with regards to fat loss. If what you're saying is true, I'd like to know specifically who gave you that advice.

Weights + Cardio + Diet = success. They work synergystically. You do not need to have one in check before the others.

You can still do relatively low carbs - base them around your weight workout so they're put to good use. Protein/fat meals the remainder of the day. Don't worry AS MUCH about carbs vs. fats vs proteins, and be more concerned with overall calorie consumption, calories in/calories out, etc. At 30% + bodyfat, you'll make strides with your body even if you're just a little dialed in.

I'm sorry if you've been given conflicting information and it's confusing you. I stand by everything I said above and would be surprised if anybody here disputes me on this - but feel free.

Ah, I think I may have totally misunderstood the whole concept.

I know this isn't the right section, but I work afternoon shift all the way through till late at night, so my only time to work out is in the morning. Could I do both cardio and weight in the same session? Because when I finish my boxing session, my arms are normally quite weak and fragile.

I wouldn't be doing intense cardio on an empty stomach. ^ ^ - you can up your calories right off the bat by adding a meal before this cardio session. At the very least, get some protein in, although i'd add carbs as well.
whole eggs and egg whites or something maybe on brown bread? if i had this meal before my workout at say 8am, would it be too soon to have my next meal straight after at 9am?

9am - 1/2 cup oats 3/26/1.5/129
Why is there no protein in this meal?
for this meal should i also add some egg whites or whole eggs for protein? how many if so?

12pm - 2.5oz tuna 18/0/1/80
Double the tuna, add carbs or fats + veggies
these next few meals are the hard ones because I am at work and need something quick and easy to down. If I was to double the tuna, is there anything else simple i could add like 2 slices of brown bread for carbs? simplicity is the key in these meals for me.

3pm - 7oz chicken breast, 1 cup spinach 35/5/0/172
Good meal, add some fats - olive oil to the spinach for instance
I will do exactly this, keep the meal but add olive oil to the spinach. how about avocado? i always liked avocado and chicken.

6pm - 2.5oz tuna 17.5/0/1/80
Double it and add some fat and veggies
again, this one is going to be hard as i cant really take veggies to work. any quick and easy suggestions for fat? maybe almonds or other nuts? maybe tuna in oil instead of tuna in springwater?

9pm - 1 cup brown rice, broccoli 12/65/3/314
Why the rice at 9pm
ok, i think we may need to scrap and re-do this whole meal altogether? what do you suggest for this meal? needs to be easy aswell

How about a meal before bed?
sure, what would we be looking at?

[joshh]

also, is there something I could replace the tuna with for one of the meals that is also easy to prepare?

[tbody66]

Weight lifting is crucial to building muscle, the only way to maintain fat loss is to increase muscle mass and is a substantially better way to keep fat off than cardio, also increased cardio makes it more difficult for your body to burn fat because the more fit you are in the area of cardio the more you then have to work to lose the same amount of calories that you easily burned before. Simply put your body becomes better at not burning calories because you have trained it to not work as hard as it used too. Cardio is also counter productive to muscle building and actually puts your fat burning further behind. No one on these boards could have possibly told you to not begin weight training. The other thing you need to understand is that "fat loss" is not directly associated with "weight loss", muscle weighs more than fat, so as you increase muscle and burn more fat than you could actually gain weight so don't freak out by the scale results. Take measurements and pictures to gauge your progress along with the scale.

[joshh]

Conpletely understood tbody


I have now realised that weight training is essential for my fat loss, i am now working on a new diet with gbrice75 to accompany my weight training but also help with weight loss

[gbrice75]

bold, blue =)

Ah, I think I may have totally misunderstood the whole concept.

I know this isn't the right section, but I work afternoon shift all the way through till late at night, so my only time to work out is in the morning. Could I do both cardio and weight in the same session? Because when I finish my boxing session, my arms are normally quite weak and fragile.

I wouldn't be doing intense cardio on an empty stomach. ^ ^ - you can up your calories right off the bat by adding a meal before this cardio session. At the very least, get some protein in, although i'd add carbs as well.
whole eggs and egg whites or something maybe on brown bread? if i had this meal before my workout at say 8am, would it be too soon to have my next meal straight after at 9am?

A whole egg, some whites and/or a whey shake (AND would be my choice), + oats would be ideal. Brown bread if you have to, but oats would be much better. An hour later would be a bit soon for your next meal, however you should ideally have the 1st meal 1 to 1.5 hours before your workout, allowing the food time to digest and breakdown in your bloodstream.

9am - 1/2 cup oats 3/26/1.5/129
Why is there no protein in this meal?
for this meal should i also add some egg whites or whole eggs for protein? how many if so?

If you do your weight training and cardio (in that order) during this same time in the morning (yes, that's fine, and that's what I do), you should make this meal a whey shake + the 1/2 cup oats

12pm - 2.5oz tuna 18/0/1/80
Double the tuna, add carbs or fats + veggies
these next few meals are the hard ones because I am at work and need something quick and easy to down. If I was to double the tuna, is there anything else simple i could add like 2 slices of brown bread for carbs? simplicity is the key in these meals for me.

You'll probably want to do fats instead of carbs, if you do carbs, bread is ok - look for Ezekiel bread fro Foods For Life (freezer section).

3pm - 7oz chicken breast, 1 cup spinach 35/5/0/172
Good meal, add some fats - olive oil to the spinach for instance
I will do exactly this, keep the meal but add olive oil to the spinach. how about avocado? i always liked avocado and chicken.


Avacado is great, and tastes a helluva lot better than EVOO, go for it!

6pm - 2.5oz tuna 17.5/0/1/80
Double it and add some fat and veggies
again, this one is going to be hard as i cant really take veggies to work. any quick and easy suggestions for fat? maybe almonds or other nuts? maybe tuna in oil instead of tuna in springwater?

Understood about the veggies, not the end of the world. If you do tuna in oil, make SURE it's the Tuna (Tonno) in Olive Oil - not that crap in sunflower oil or soybean oil with the other added crap. Ingredients should be Tuna, Olive Oil, Salt, that's it. Otherwise, tuna in water + a serving of nuts would be great

9pm - 1 cup brown rice, broccoli 12/65/3/314
Why the rice at 9pm
ok, i think we may need to scrap and re-do this whole meal altogether? what do you suggest for this meal? needs to be easy aswell


Lean protein, keep the broccoli, possibly add a bit of fat (tsp of EVOO, etc)

How about a meal before bed?

Ideally yes, you want it. Lean beef (best choice), cottage cheese, or casein protein shake. No carbs, if any fats, keep it minimal. Gotta find a way to make the meal fit into your daily caloric allotment

sure, what would we be looking at?

[Fuq40]

Just hijacking for no good reason. Damn GBrice, you da man!!! Just straight good stuff/advice on this thread. Listen to these guys they know what they're talking about.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Weight lifting is crucial to building muscle, the only way to maintain fat loss is to increase muscle mass No, the only way to maintain fat loss is through correct diet and is a substantially better way to keep muscle off you mean fat? than cardio, also increased cardio makes it more difficult for your body to burn fat because the more fit you are in the area of cardio the more you then have to work to lose the same amount of calories that you easily burned before so by this rationale, if you're in terrible CV shape and you would burn 500cal doing XYZ cardio workout, you should never start to do any cardio training because once you get in better CV condition, you will only burn 250cal. Simply put your body becomes better at not burning calories because you have trained it to not work as hard as it used too that's called being in good CV condition and is a state of overall better health. Cardio is also counter productive to muscle building and actually puts your fat burning further behind Not true. Can you back this up?. No one on these boards could have possibly told you to not begin weight training. The other thing you need to understand is that "fat loss" is not directly associated with "weight loss", muscle weighs more than fat, so as you increase muscle and burn more fat than you could actually gain weight so don't freak out by the scale results. Take measurements and pictures to gauge your progress along with the scale.

Wow. I'm going to respectfully disagree with most of your post with the exception of resistance training being a necessity.

The OP is probably pushing 30% BF and you're advising him to not do cardio?

Performing consistent cardiovascular training benefits include:

- improved heart health by exercising the heart muscle
- increase in metabolic rate
- increases cells insulin sensitivity making body's regulation of blood glucose levels more efficient and decreasing insulin spikes
- increases HDL (good cholesterol)
- lowers blood pressure
- reduces anxiety and depression
- decreases resting heart rate, increases max heart volume, and max oxygen consumption
- improves and increases circulation by maximizing elasticity of arteries and increasing capillaries in muscle tissue
- enhances recovery after resistance training
- causes lungs to be more efficient at delivering oxygen to muscle tissue for fuel
- improves calorie partitioning ie. keeps body in practice of using fat for fuel even during times of caloric excess

[tbody66]

Sgt.,

Yes I did mean keep fat off, not muscle.

I re-read my post multiple times and never saw where I told him not to do cardio. I absolutely would say that if you are going to exercise to lose fat then weight training is substantially more important and effective. I also would say that the entire world proves that diet alone without an exercise program is also less effective for maintaining fat loss. Diet alone adds none of the health benefits of weight lifting and the body constantly adapts to any change in diet to preserve itself. You did say "maintain" fat loss so there is some legitamacy to that statement, you didn't say to "cause" fat loss. Long term studies prove that weight training alone provides almost equal cardio vascular benefits to that of cardio. Cardio is an aerobic activity, weight training is anaerobic, counter-productive by name and nature. Cardio decreases metabolism. Several references for proof, the most recent being a book entitled "the Cardio free diet" author Jim Karas.

The TDEE calculator used here by everyone is proof, in order to figure out your daily caloric needs you use lbm, lbm is primarily muscle, muscle has a metabolic rate, even when at rest. If two identical people began separate exercise programs while changing absolutely nothing about their diet, the one who did weight training only would continually add muscle and burn fat, the aerobic only subject would be required to perform more and more and more cardio to receive the same benefit from his starting point due strictly to increased cardio vascular health. if your lbm doesn't increase and your body burns less calories during the activity how can you come to a logical conclusion that this is better for burning fat, which I believe was the OP's intention, and if you use health as the reasoning for performing cardio but weight training provides near identical benefits with the added benefit of burning more fat why would you do something that wears so many parts of the body out at an accelerated rate? Of course this is probably more related if we were discussing strictly weight training vs cardio where I firmly stand on the weight training side of that issue. If the question is does cardio assist in fat burning while not losing muscle mass I'm not convinced that it does or at what point it becomes counter-productive if some small doses of cardio are not completely harmful to muscle building.

[gbrice75]

Just hijacking for no good reason. Damn GBrice, you da man!!! Just straight good stuff/advice on this thread. Listen to these guys they know what they're talking about.

Thanks man! =)

[joshh]

Would this be a good whey shake? http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...d-5lbs-27.aspx. Hoes does this look at the moment Gbrice? i'm trying to substitute the whey shake until i can find a good one for me.

8am - 1/2 cup oats, 1 large scrambled egg 10/27/8.5/231
9am - 1/2hr weights, 1/2hr cardio
10am - 1/2 cup oats, 1 large scrambled egg 10/27/8.5/231
12pm - 7oz chicken breast, 1 cup spinach, 1/2 avocado 38/11/12/300
3pm - 5oz tuna, 28g almonds 36/5/15/317
6pm - 7oz chicken breast, 1 cup spinach, 1/2 avocado 38/11/12/300
9pm - 30z lean steak, 1 broccoli stalk 27/10/7/206
12am - casein shake 24/3/1/120
total - 183/94/64/1705

seems a little high on the protein side of things? maybe a little high in fat also? if i was to maybe go half on the avocado, it would bring the fat and calories down a bit.

would this be ok as a substitute for my 8am oats and egg meal? http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...wder-1120.aspx
or maybe just oats, whey powder and water in a blender for 8am? im looking for easy meals that are easy to down

[Halsey]

Hi,
I was feeling irritation with my daily gym exercise then i was suggested to join a swimming club for period of time...
Would it really be a better alternative for me.....

[Fuq40]

Josh -

2 quick things and then I'll let the experts chime in.

1st - Pretty sure it would be more advantageous to be taking your whey shake in at your 10AM meal (after workout), could be wrong and probably not mandatory, but I believe this would be better/smarter.

2nd - I assume you know that you don't need to be paying $80 - $90 bucks for that exact supplement (ON whey), just type the same thing into Amazon and it's half that price or you can get about 10lbs instead of 5lbs for the $80 range.

Just my .02

[gbrice75]

bold

Would this be a good whey shake? http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...d-5lbs-27.aspx. Hoes does this look at the moment Gbrice? i'm trying to substitute the whey shake until i can find a good one for me.

8am - 1/2 cup oats, 1 large scrambled egg 10/27/8.5/231

Not enough protein (no, your total protein macro isn't too high) - add some whites, or add a shake here. I'd rather see the real oats vs. the oats and whey, but you can do it if you want. 1 scoop oats and whey, 1 whole egg OR 1 whole egg, 4-6 whites, 1/2 cup oats (I prefer the real food meal)

9am - 1/2hr weights, 1/2hr cardio

Good! Can you bump it to 45 mins each?

10am - 1/2 cup oats, 1 large scrambled egg 10/27/8.5/231

Again, protein is too low here. Drop the egg all together, do straight whey (ON whey is fine) + the 1/2 cup oats

12pm - 7oz chicken breast, 1 cup spinach, 1/2 avocado 38/11/12/300

Wonderful meal! Check macro though - 7oz chicken is more than 38g protein - but you should be ok here

3pm - 5oz tuna, 28g almonds 36/5/15/317

Another good meal. If fat is too high (it is a bit high given your total calories) just 1/2 the amount of almonds here

6pm - 7oz chicken breast, 1 cup spinach, 1/2 avocado 38/11/12/300

Another nice one!

9pm - 30z lean steak, 1 broccoli stalk 27/10/7/206

Great!

12am - casein shake 24/3/1/120

Great!

total - 183/94/64/1705

seems a little high on the protein side of things? maybe a little high in fat also? if i was to maybe go half on the avocado, it would bring the fat and calories down a bit.

Nope, protein is ok, low actually IMO - my changes will bring it up, and also bring up total calories a bit. Fats are a tad high; consider half the amount of fats in your meals - i.e. 1/4 avacado, half the serving of almonds, etc. But the removal of the whole egg in your PWO meal will lower it by 4.5g also

would this be ok as a substitute for my 8am oats and egg meal? http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...wder-1120.aspx
or maybe just oats, whey powder and water in a blender for 8am? im looking for easy meals that are easy to down

[gbrice75]

Hi,
I was feeling irritation with my daily gym exercise then i was suggested to join a swimming club for period of time...
Would it really be a better alternative for me.....

Try starting your own thread Halsey, not hijacking somebody else's. =)

[joshh]

Would i be able to drop oats completely for the first 2 meals and just have the whey + egg? Do i really need those carbs before and after workout or could i do without? Wouldn't these carbs slow down the fat shredded process? If i do need the carbs, could i just have a scoop of oats+whey powder & an egg before and after gym? I just really hate eating oats, it takes me 20 minutes to down them lol.

And according to nutrition data, 200g (7oz) of oven baked chicken breast contains 34g protein..
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...n-meats/1501/2

Also, supplements are not cheap over here in Australia, even on ebay australia. I think supplements are just one of those products you cant really get for cheaper than retail over here. A1 Suplements are one of the cheapest stores and 5lbs of ON whey costs $85AU. Postage from Amazon would also cost a fortune so I'm not sure. Maybe I could get someone from these forums to buy for me very cheaply in the states and get them to send to me? Any ideas?

[gbrice75]

^ ^ I feel like we're starting from square 1. Carbs aren't the enemy man, properly timed carbs can do alot for you - pre and pwo is a great time for them.

You don't have to eat oats, but it's a great quick and easy carb source. If you can't do the regular oats for some reason, go with the ON oats + whey at least.

[Damienm05]

^ ^ I feel like we're starting from square 1. Carbs aren't the enemy man, properly timed carbs can do alot for you - pre and pwo is a great time for them.

You don't have to eat oats, but it's a great quick and easy carb source. If you can't do the regular oats for some reason, go with the ON oats + whey at least.

Yeah, frustrating read lol.

[joshh]

Yeah sorry about the noob questions gbrice, i bet you get asked the same questions every single day. for some reason i have in the back of my mind that less carbs = weight loss, but i have gotten rid of that thought now.

Today I purchased these:
IDS Oatmeal and Whey powder for pre and pwo meals 24/19/2.5/160. should i add a scrambled egg to each meal? http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...wder-1120.aspx
Dymatize Elite Casein for before I sleep 24/4/0.5/120 http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...tein-1130.aspx

[joshh]

yeah sorry about bringing that up again gbrice, for some reason i had planted in the back of my mind that less carbs = weight loss. i understand now and have forgotten that thought.

i purchased these today:
ids oatmeal and whey powder for pre and pwo meals. 24/19/2.5/160. should i add a large egg in these meals? http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...wder-1120.aspx
dymatize elite casein for before bed. 24/4/0.5/120. http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...tein-1130.aspx

yes i can do 45min weights and 45 min cardio. would be be looking at heavy or light weight? or in between? i was told 3 sets of 12 is a good starting point. what areas should we isolate to focus on? i really want to build up my chest more than anything. what about the cardio, what kind of cardio would be best? how is skipping? cycling on a treadmill? what intensity cardio would be best? what HR?

[joshh]

edit, oh i can post replies now

[joshh]

yeah sorry about that gbrice, for some reason i still had in my mind that i needed to stay completely away from carbs when trying to loose weight. i have gotten that out of my mind now

i bought these from the supplement store today:
ids oatmeal and whey powder. 24/19/2.5/160. http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...wder-1120.aspx
dymatize elite casein: 24/4/0.5/120. http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...tein-1130.aspx
do these look ok?

i can bump cardio and weights to 45 mins each. what sort of cardio and weight lifting should i be doing? would skipping be good cardio? maybe an exercise bike? what HR should i be aiming for? intense or moderate?

what about weight? we looking for heavy weight low reps or low weight high reps? i want to focus on my chest the most. what muscles and exercises should i focus on? i have heard 3 sets of 12 reps is a good start..

cardio and weights for 45min a day + my ~2000cal diet, would i be expecting to loose weight? or stay around the same but have a better figure? how long would you think till i start to see some good results?

josh

[joshh]

i also have another few question

would it be ok to get out of bed, take the oatmeal+whey shake and then jump back into bed for an hour to let it digest?
also, i have read that the first 30 minutes after gym is when your muscles grow the most, so basically your pwo is very important. so shouldnt i be taking my pwo meal right after weights instead of 45min cardio after weights then pwo?

[gbrice75]

bold

yeah sorry about that gbrice, for some reason i still had in my mind that i needed to stay completely away from carbs when trying to loose weight. i have gotten that out of my mind now

i bought these from the supplement store today:
ids oatmeal and whey powder. 24/19/2.5/160. http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...wder-1120.aspx
dymatize elite casein: 24/4/0.5/120. http://www.a1supplements.com.au/Prod...tein-1130.aspx
do these look ok?

They're fine

i can bump cardio and weights to 45 mins each. what sort of cardio and weight lifting should i be doing? would skipping be good cardio? maybe an exercise bike? what HR should i be aiming for? intense or moderate?

Do weights, then cardio. Since you're not doing it fasted, i'd keep cardio medium intensity with some high intensity intervals sprinkled in. Skipping? If you want to look like a fairy, go ahead, lol! Treadmill, elliptical, stepmill (best choice) are all good. Bikes are ok but I don't prefer them. HR would probably be good around 150, but you should research this to find your Max HR then find your target zone.

what about weight? we looking for heavy weight low reps or low weight high reps? i want to focus on my chest the most. what muscles and exercises should i focus on? i have heard 3 sets of 12 reps is a good start..

I like to mix it up. Honestly, i'd suggest looking around the workout section and posting for help. I'm not really inclined to design a workout routine for you - there are plenty of people here more capable than I am.

cardio and weights for 45min a day + my ~2000cal diet, would i be expecting to loose weight? or stay around the same but have a better figure? how long would you think till i start to see some good results?

josh

i also have another few question

would it be ok to get out of bed, take the oatmeal+whey shake and then jump back into bed for an hour to let it digest?
also, i have read that the first 30 minutes after gym is when your muscles grow the most, so basically your pwo is very important. so shouldnt i be taking my pwo meal right after weights instead of 45min cardio after weights then pwo?

I don't love the idea of having a carb meal then jumping back in bed, but I understand why you want to do that. I think it'll be ok. The first 30 mins PWO is NOT when your muscles grow!! You repair and grow when you're at rest, in a deep sleep. PWO nutrition is important because your muscles are depleted of nutrients and you are in a very anabolic state (protein and nutrient uptake is higher than normal) so you want to take advantage of that 'magical window'.

Don't worry about the 45 mins of cardio PWO, you will not miss the window. Fireguy has said many times that many bodybuilders are doing an hour or more of cardio and then having their PWO nutrition - and they seem to be doing fine.

You do not want to eat before the cardio because you'll essentially be fueling the cardio session with energy. PWO is a great time for fat burning because alot of your glycogen/glucose stores are spent.

[tbody66]

Here is a good push/pull program that should be easy enough to start and thorough enough to get you started. Try this for a couple of months and record your weights/reps/sets and post them here or pm them to me if you want me to tweak it along the way. I'll also help design a new program for you at the end of running this for 8 weeks.

Mondays and thursdays are push days: Chest/shoulders/triceps/abs
Tuesdays and fridays are pull days: legs/back/biceps
Mondays and Tuesdays will be your heavy days and thursdays and fridays your light days, you will perform similar exercises but the rep range will change.
always start your workout by jumping rope for one minute solid, when you can do that easily then start adding 15 second increments to your warmup until you are at five minutes of rope jumping and then just stay with that.

Mon:
Chest:
Flat Bench, warm-up sets, these should be three rep warm up sets with progressive weight until you reach your workout weight, then three sets of 8 - 12 reps, go to failure each time, go up in weight when you are hitting all three sets 12 or more reps
Incline Bench, no warm up sets here, your chest is warmed up from the flat bench, three workout sets, same rep range.
flat dumbell flyes - this is not a mass exercise, it is a stretching exercise, the weight does not matter, as a matter of fact it should be just heavy enough to help your arms get a full stretch at the bottom, too heavy and you can cause yourself damage, slow and controlled with a full stretch at the bottom and a pause, when you contract the muscle bring the weights as close together as possible without touching them, and then turn the pinkies in towards each other while feeling the middle of your chest come together.
Shoulders:
The front's of your shoulders have been thoroughly worked here, so we'll move onto the tops and rears.
Military press: sets and reps the same as the bench press, machine or barbell, depending on your gym
Dumbbell Shrugs. Pause at the top and bottom, straight up and down, don't roll your shoulders, put the tops of your shoulders into your ears, I like going progressively higher in poundages within the rep range until I can't properly perform the exercise.
Rear shoulder raises. Bend at the waist, pic a very...very...very...light weight, 5 lbs to start, lean over parallel with the ground with your knees bent and look in front of you at the wall/mirror, keeping your elbows locked and arms straight down in front of you raise them out to your sides with your pinkies up towards the ceiling. At the top of the movement you want them to be about 3 inches above your shoulders and even with your eyeballs, trust me, this hurts and is effective. 8-12 reps, pause at the top.
Triceps:
bodyweighted dips to failure, three sets
skull crushers, three sets 8-12 reps
Abs:
Crunches 3 sets 51 reps
Tues:
Legs:
Squats: progressive warm up sets of 11 reps until workout weight, then three sets of 15 - 20 reps, same philosophy as the bench, go to failure, increase weight when you are performing over 20 reps for each of the three sets, when you add the weight it should drop you down to only being able to accomplish 15 reps on your last set.
Straight legged dead lifts super setted with standing calf raises or toe extensions, stiff legged deads should be done in the 15-20 rep range and calves should be done in sets of 21's, 7 toes in heels out, 7 heels in toes out and 7 straight on.
Back:
Lat Pull downs 3 sets 8-12 reps, followed by bent over barbell rows 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Biceps:
Straight bar curls, full range 3 sets 8-12 reps, concentration curls 3 sets 8-12 reps

Thurs:
Chest:
Incline dumbbell presses, start with a light weight 40 lbs for example, and perform 12-15 reps, then increase by 5 lbs each time within the same rep range, you want to do five work sets, so make sure you are ending at a weight that you can barely get those 12 reps with on your fifth set
Flat dumbbell presses, your chest is already warmed up, go with three workout sets in that 12-15 rep range
Shoulders:
Rear raises again, just like last time except this time work in the 15-20 rep range
Upright rows, do this for the traps on shoulder day, 3 sets of 25 reps, do not let the weight go all the way down at the bottom, slow and controlled, no lower than the belly button at the bottom of the motion and almost touch the chin at the top, keep the weight in close to the body the entire time, use the ez curl bar for this.
Triceps:
rope pushdowns, 3 sets 25 reps, followed by bench dips, three sets to failure
Abs:
Bicycles: 3 sets 51 reps, Hanging leg raises: 3 sets 51 reps

Fri:
Back:
Deadlifts 3 sets 15-20 reps, because it is deadlift day we start with back.
Legs:
Do a superset for legs, going from machine to machine to machine for the three exercises for the three sets leg extension/leg curl/toe presses, start all over, little or no rest between sets.
biceps:
dumbbell hammer curls, 3 sets, 12-15 reps followed by dumbbell preacher curls, 3 sets 8-12 reps.

[joshh]

Gbrice, shoud i cook up a scrambled egg with my pre and pwo to have with my oatmeal & whey powder? Or is it fine how it is? Maybe add some evoo to the shake instead?

[joshh]

i have also been speaking with tbody and we have worked out a good weights plan for me.
i will be doing gym monday, tuesday, thursday and friday. 45min weights, 45min cardio.

for the days i dont do gym, would i just skip the 8am pre workout meal and just have my 10am pwo?
should i keep the same carb+protein pwo for my first meal the days i dont do gym?

[tbody66]

I didn't see your diet all lined out in one place, but I'd say that mostly it's recommended you not have your post workout meal on non lifting days, and I believe you will want to stick with all real meals no drinks then as well.

[joshh]

here is a diet update gbrice:

6.30am - oatmeal + whey shake 24/19/2.5/160 (should i double this or add some evoo or an egg?)
8am - 45min weights, 45min cardio
9.30am - oatmeal + whey shake 24/19/2.5/160 (should i double this or add some evoo or an egg?)
12.30pm - 7oz chicken breast 34/4/0/158, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/4 avocado 1/3/5/57
3.30pm - 5oz tuna 30/0/2.5/149, 14g almonds 3/3/7/81
6.30pm - 7oz chicken breast 34/4/0/158, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/4 avocado 1/3/5/57
9.30pm - 7oz 95/5 ground beef 54/0/12/348, 1 cup broccoli 7/12/0/54
12.00am - casein shake 24/3/1/120
total - 238/74/38/1518

[gbrice75]

The diet is looking pretty good IMO but your macros look kinda wacky to me. Look at 9:30pm for instance.

Totals are still low IMO - both carbs and fat. You're back to 1500 calories, too low man.

[joshh]

when you say the macros look wacky, do you mean you think they are wrong or?

i was on 64g fat but i did as you said and went half the amount of avocado and almonds, il go back to the 1/2 avocado with my salad but keep the almonds halved. this would bring the fat to 48g?

which meals do you recommend i get more carbs and calories? and do you have any suggestion on what food would work?

[gbrice75]

Sorry man, I don't mean to confuse you - what did we discuss shooting for in terms of total daily calories?

I remember seeing an earlier diet at 1700 calories but now you're down to 1500. At 64g fat with a diet below 2000 calories - yea, I think that's on the high side. 50g would probably be fine. Carbs should come up too - just do more carbs in your carb meals, you only have a few anyway. 3/4 to 1 cup oats for instance, pre workout would be best.

[joshh]

That's cool man. We didn't really have a goal for daily calories, however when it was at 1700 from memory you said it was fine but later on I would need to up it slightly.

How about if I just went double serving on the oatmeal and whey shake for my pre and pwo? That would add an extra 320 calories so back up to 1850 and it would also add 38g carbs which would bring daily carbs up to just over 100g.

However the shakes contain 24g protein each so it would bring my daily protein up to 286g. This would be a little high wouldn't it?

[gbrice75]

^ ^ don't worry about an extra 24g of protein, it certainly won't make or break your diet. If we discussed 1700 calories being fine, then stick with what you had and then implement the above changes once it's time to start increasing as you mentioned.

[joshh]

here is an update gbrice

6.30am - 60g oats 6/37/5/230 + whey shake 24/3/1/120 30/40/6/350
7.30am - 60-90min weights, 45min cardio
9.30am - 60g oats 6/37/5/230 + whey shake 24/3/1/120 30/40/6/350
12.30pm - 135g chicken breast 42/0/5/223, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/2 avocado 2/6/10/114 45/8/15/345
3.30pm - 140g tuna 30/0/3/149, 14g almonds 3/3/7/81 33/3/10/230
6.30pm - 135g chicken breast 42/0/5/223, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/2 avocado 2/6/10/114 45/8/15/345
9.30pm - 200g 95/5 ground beef 43/0/10/260, 1 cup broccoli 7/12/0/54 50/12/10/314
12.30am - casein shake 24/3/1/110
total - 227/114/63/2044

Just a few questions gbrice..

How does this look at the moment?
I've been told that if doing a low carb diet, when I go back to a high carb diet when I want to bulk, I will put on a lot of unwanted weight because at the moment i are somewhat starving myself of carbs?
Am I having too many daily carbs in this weight lose diet?
I have also been told that it would be recommended to have simple carbs like sugars straight after my workout instead of complex carbs as you need to quickly refuel?

Thanks

[falco21]

I did a keto diet for about 2 months. If you are gonna introduce carbs into your diet again, you gotta do it slowly and a little at a time. If you just start eating a bunch then your gonna gain unwanted weight like you heard.

[joshh]

ah i see. thanks falco

[joshh]

oh and also, i think we agreed that on my non workout days (wed,sat & sun) to skip the pre workout oats and whey shake. but for the 9.30am meal, would it be better to drop the carbs totally and just have a whey shake or a casein shake?

thanks

[joshh]

here an update guys:

gym 7 days;
mon, tue, thu, fri - 90 mins weights + 60 mins cardio
wed - 90 mins cardio
sat, sun - 2 hr cardio

diet;
6.00am - 60g oats 6/37/5/230 + whey shake 24/3/1/120 30/40/6/350
7.00am - mesomorph pre-workout
7.30am - 90min weights, 60min cardio
9.30am - 60g oats 6/37/5/230 + whey shake 24/3/1/120 30/40/6/350
12.30pm - 135g chicken breast 42/0/5/223, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/2 avocado 2/6/10/114 45/8/15/345
3.30pm - 140g tuna 30/0/3/149, 14g almonds 3/3/7/81 33/3/10/230
6.30pm - 135g chicken breast 42/0/5/223, 1 cup cos lettuce 1/2/0/8, 1/2 avocado 2/6/10/114 45/8/15/345
9.30pm - 200g 95/5 ground beef 43/0/10/260, 1 cup broccoli 7/12/0/54 50/12/10/314
12.30am - casein shake 24/3/1/110
total - 227/114/63/2044

started at 178lbs, now down to 165lbs with a fair bit of muscle growth.

[joshh]

bump

i am thinking about dropping carbs altogether so my diet is similar to that of a keto for quicker results. yay or nay?

josh