My thoughts on IIFYM style dieting

[gbrice75]

I just figured I'd start a post since IIFYM and the like seems to be picking up some steam around here lately. For those of you who don't know what the acronym stands for, it's 'If It Fits Your Macros'.

Basically, the theory is that a calorie is a calorie, or better put, a macro is a macro, regardless of the source. If your daily macro requirements are 300g protein, 200g carbs, 60g fat for example, that's all you need to be concerned with according to this style of dieting. Get the macros from any source, as long as the number 'fits' and you don't go over (or under) by the end of the day.

Personally, I don't subscribe to this approach. I'll explain the fundamental problem I have with it, but first, I want to point out that I know I have personally been a 'stickler' over the years, nitpicking on every little detail of a person's diet. I consider myself a progressive thinker, and am ALWAYS willing to listen and be open to new ideas and theories - but they have to be logical. I have most definitely relaxed on a lot of things I used to harp on ... I feel I am WAY more liberal where dieting is concerned, but not to the extent that IIFYM dieting has gone.

Basically, it's the opposite end of the spectrum from where I used to be. I over complicated dieting. It required calculations, ridiculous amounts of planning, etc. Basically, I was a slave to dieting, and to the kitchen. I have learned that it doesn't need to be that difficult. It shouldn't be torture to diet. It shouldn't even be unpleasant. BUT, it also isn't something that can be simplified to the extent IIFYM has gone IMO. It's an absolute minimalist approach, and IMO, that just doesn't work in bodybuilding. At least not for people who want to look great.

One of my mentors once said, and it has stuck with me: "Bodybuilding is a polarizing sport. There are minimalists, and there are extremists, but no middle ground." I can safely say I see minimalists every single day. Gym rats. The guys who are there every single day, like clock work, yet I don't see their physiques change, EVER. There are tons of them. Then there are the extremists. I see far fewer of them - but when you see one, you'll know it. Their efforts and dedication show.

Bottom line - if it were as simple as 'hitting your macros' regardless of the source, there'd be a lot more people walking around looking like bodybuilders. Hell, I could EASILY hit my macros just by drinking protein shakes all day, eating a ton of fruit (which would be awesome compared to sweet potatoes and rice, right!?) to hit my carb macro, and i'd probably have a shitload of PB on rye bread to get all my fats in. Sounds like an awesome diet, doesn't it? Do you REALLY think a person eating that diet is going to see the same results as somebody eating a more traditional bodybuilder's diet? No way. The oldest saying in the book is still the best - 'You Are What You Eat'. Plain and simple.

[austinite]

Gbrice, very well said! And I agree. Especially those carb sources!!

[Marc_83]

Well said Gbrice.

In my experience when I get my calories in I find I feel better mentally, and over all a sense of well-being when I choose healthier foods for calories vs just trying to get in my calories from other sources. (Could be psychological but that is just my experience)

[GirlyGymRat]

I tend to slip into this style on maintenance. Not that it's preferred. I just do :/

[--->>405<<---]

i agree as well. this thread ought to be fun!

personally i would like to say as it pertains to myself specifically that occasionally or for a small percentage of calories, allowances can be made in choice of foods eatn. an example of this for myself would be with regards to bread and sugar. for the sake of accuracy and clarification i will include the quantities and frequency of the carbs i have utlized to successfully cut from 13%bf to 9% bf over the course of about 16 weeks..

1 serving skim milk (13g carbs)
5 servings PB Capn crunch (100g carbs)
3 cups oats (150g carbs)
450g blueberries (54g carbs)
4 pieces health nut whole wheat bread (84g carbs)
1/2 cup brn rice (64g carbs)
banana (29g carbs)

total: 494g carbs

questionable carb total: 226g carbs 128g sugar

% questionable: 226/ 494= 45.7%

obviously my body handles carbs well.

id also like to note for the first 12 weeks of the diet i ate these carb sources EOD. the last 4 weeks i ate them every 3 days. id also like to note this post was not intended to be argumentative or support one side or the other. as a matter of fact its the first time i have looked closely at my carb choices like this so its actually pretty informative for me as well.

id also like to note i averaged 5:15 cardio per week weeks 1-12 and then 7hrs cardio per week weeks 13-16..

i would also like to bring attention to my second sentence which shows that i actually had no idea what percentage of my total carbs came from sub optimal choices. in fact "small percentage" was WAY OFF! this is why i suppose it can be good to be diligent when calculating ur diet..

[gbrice75]

Gbrice, very well said! And I agree. Especially those carb sources!!

Thanks brother!

Well said Gbrice.

In my experience when I get my calories in I find I feel better mentally, and over all a sense of well-being when I choose healthier foods for calories vs just trying to get in my calories from other sources. (Could be psychological but that is just my experience)

Although I do feel the benefit is more than mental, I agree with you that even if it were ONLY psychological/placebo, it's still a benefit nonetheless.

I tend to slip into this style on maintenance. Not that it's preferred. I just do :/

Me too!

i agree as well. this thread ought to be fun!

personally i would like to say as it pertains to myself specifically that occasionally or for a small percentage of calories, allowances can be made in choice of foods eatn. an example of this for myself would be with regards to bread and sugar. for the sake of accuracy and clarification i will include the quantities and frequency of the carbs i have utlized to successfully cut from 13%bf to 9% bf over the course of about 16 weeks..

1 serving skim milk (13g carbs)
5 servings PB Capn crunch (100g carbs)
3 cups oats (150g carbs)
450g blueberries (54g carbs)
4 pieces health nut whole wheat bread (84g carbs)
1/2 cup brn rice (64g carbs)

total: 465g carbs

questionable carb total: 197g carbs 107g sugar

% questionable: 197/465 = 42%

obviously my body handles carbs well.

id also like to note for the first 12 weeks of the diet i ate these carb sources EOD. the last 4 weeks i ate them every 3 days. id also like to note this post was not intended to be argumentative or support one side or the other. as a matter of fact its the first time i have looked closely at my carb choices like this so its actually pretty informative for me as well.

id also like to note i averaged 5:15 cardio per week weeks 1-12 and then 7hrs cardio per week weeks 13-16..

Not taken as argumentative at all. As you know, I have some intimate knowledge of the details of your current diet as a whole, so when the rest of the 'puzzle' is factored in, it becomes clearer as to why you're able to 'get away' with this.

I also want to point out that for some people, IIFYM may work perfectly well. I know a guy (I'm sure we all do) who eats like complete shit, but stays extremely lean (sub 10%) all year round. At the same time though, he's tiny - so take it for what it's worth. I'm just saying that to tout IIFYM as a 'complete' style of dieting, especially for newbs, is a mistake IMO.

[--->>405<<---]

Not taken as argumentative at all. As you know, I have some intimate knowledge of the details of your current diet as a whole, so when the rest of the 'puzzle' is factored in, it becomes clearer as to why you're able to 'get away' with this.

I also want to point out that for some people, IIFYM may work perfectly well. I know a guy (I'm sure we all do) who eats like complete shit, but stays extremely lean (sub 10%) all year round. At the same time though, he's tiny - so take it for what it's worth. I'm just saying that to tout IIFYM as a 'complete' style of dieting, especially for newbs, is a mistake IMO.

yes definitely NOT for newbs for sure! this is also why i prefaced the post with "as it applies to me" this by no means was intended to condone IIFYM or eating less than optimal carb choices as a rule especially in the beginning. i have been able to do this based on a specific environment created by my style of diet which is why i included the frequency of carbs as well as the amount of cardio i did.

in regards to cardio i only did it on days i did not eat carbs. so basically if u figure it out it worked out to 90mins cardio per day on the days i did it and it was sp;it onto 2 sessions. there were (and are) some heavy prices to pay to be able to eat like this such as painful 3mL L Carnitine injections 2-3 times per week as well as 42 sub q peptide injections per week, heavy cardio, carb deprivation at least 50% of the time and some weeks i only got carbs 2 days out of 7..

[cj111]

When I first started lifting I didn't know shit about nutrition. I knew enough to eat my vegetables and not eat chips and pop, eat carbs/protein/fats at every meal, from good sources mind you. Limit your sugar, be active, and just don't make stupid food choices. Well I made damn good progress just sticking to the basics .. I didn't even know how to count a calorie

For people 30% bf or more I don't see a real need to count calories and all that, eat "sensibly" , and you are guaranteed to lose weight. Counting calories would just be another unneeded stress for most people .

I agree what you said you can't just fill your belly with some random shit if it fits your macros. I had a lady once come up to me and said she can't lose weight, well turns out she was eating 10 apples a day and thought it was healthy...

[Shsm]

Great post.

Of course I don't hit my macros with a pack of Oreos and protein shakes every day but if I want Chipotle or some cereal I'll fit it into my macros without feeling guilty about it. Moderation is key of course.

[Shsm]

Asshole


VV

[--->>405<<---]

^^ LOL.. i dont think ive ever seen anyone quote themselves like that! it appears not to even accomplish anything LOL..

[--->>405<<---]

^^ LOL.. i dont think ive ever seen anyone quote themselves like that! it appears not to even accomplish anything LOL..

yeh u know i know what u mean! LOL..

[Shsm]

yeh u know i know what u mean! LOL..

There

[gbrice75]

When I first started lifting I didn't know shit about nutrition. I knew enough to eat my vegetables and not eat chips and pop, eat carbs/protein/fats at every meal, from good sources mind you. Limit your sugar, be active, and just don't make stupid food choices. Well I made damn good progress just sticking to the basics .. I didn't even know how to count a calorie

For people 30% bf or more I don't see a real need to count calories and all that, eat "sensibly" , and you are guaranteed to lose weight. Counting calories would just be another unneeded stress for most people .

I agree what you said you can't just fill your belly with some random shit if it fits your macros. I had a lady once come up to me and said she can't lose weight, well turns out she was eating 10 apples a day and thought it was healthy...

I agree with you on the bold. When bodyfat is that high, it's pretty damn easy to diet down. Like you said, eat sensibly, restrict calories, do your cardio/training, and the weight will drop. At around 16% or so, i'd start paying more attention to detail, and at 10%, i'd likely go back to my old ways (i.e. diet nazi) to get bodyfat down well into single digits.

Lmao @ the lady eating apples! That's the problem with the term 'healthy'. It's a relative term, too subjective. Yes, they're 'healthy' - fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, etc. Good for longevity? Yep. They're also loaded with sugar. Good for fat loss? Nope.

Great post.

Thx!

Of course I don't hit my macros with a pack of Oreos and protein shakes every day but if I want Chipotle or some cereal I'll fit it into my macros without feeling guilty about it. Moderation is key of course.

Agreed. Like I said earlier, dieting shouldn't be miserable, and I believe we SHOULD make room for allowances like Chipolte (I've been making that allowance every Friday for the past 4 weeks lol), but the core of any good bodybuilding diet should be made up of nutrient dense, quality sources of food.

[gbrice75]

Wow.... 40 people viewing this thread, only 2 of them members - 1 being ME. C'mon guys, stop lurking and sign up!!

[Tron3219]

Wow.... 40 people viewing this thread, only 2 of them members - 1 being ME. C'mon guys, stop lurking and sign up!!

Recruit much? U get kickbacks? Lol

-TroN-

[gbrice75]

Recruit much? U get kickbacks? Lol

-TroN-

Bahahaha, no, but that'd be sweet. Feel free to bring the idea up to Admin, lol!

[cj111]

At around 16% or so, i'd start paying more attention to detail, and at 10%, i'd likely go back to my old ways (i.e. diet nazi) to get bodyfat down well into single digits.

Extreme times call for extreme measures right.
That's why I don't usually agree with diets, diets usually fail in the long term for people. If you really want to lose weight and get in shape, you need to start by changing your lifestyle, not following a diet per say.

[gbrice75]

Extreme times call for extreme measures right.
That's why I don't usually agree with diets, diets usually fail in the long term for people. If you really want to lose weight and get in shape, you need to start by changing your lifestyle, not following a diet per say.

^^ amen.

[gearbox]

How long have anyone of you done a low carb day. Low I mean just pre work out carbs thats it. So obviously very high protein and supplement flax or fish oils for more fats to fit the macro split.
Reason I ask is cause a actually on stage bb does this 8 weeks out a long with 1-1.5 hours cardio 6 days a week to bring him down to 3-5%.
However not sure the aas he runs lol

[gbrice75]

How long have anyone of you done a low carb day. Low I mean just pre work out carbs thats it. So obviously very high protein and supplement flax or fish oils for more fats to fit the macro split.
Reason I ask is cause a actually on stage bb does this 8 weeks out a long with 1-1.5 hours cardio 6 days a week to bring him down to 3-5%.
However not sure the aas he runs lol

I don't understand your question Gear!! My carb cycle usually incorporates 3 low carb days (meaning no starchy carbs at all, fibrous veggies only) followed by a refeed.

[--->>405<<---]

How long have anyone of you done a low carb day. Low I mean just pre work out carbs thats it. So obviously very high protein and supplement flax or fish oils for more fats to fit the macro split.
Reason I ask is cause a actually on stage bb does this 8 weeks out a long with 1-1.5 hours cardio 6 days a week to bring him down to 3-5%.
However not sure the aas he runs lol

i did straight low carb for about 16 weeks. it freaking sucked majorly! NEVER again! i love carbs too much.. now my low carb was 100g carbs but it was split between 3 meals.

[gbrice75]

Bump... for the opposers!

[--->>405<<---]

Bump... for the opposers!

looks like someone is feeling argumentative!

[gbrice75]

looks like someone is feeling argumentative!

Bahahaha! Moi!?! Never!

[gbrice75]

Bump - again!! This section has been pretty lame lately... just trying to get something - anything - going.

[Twin]

I agree with ya.

Iifym is bs. I dont care what studies are thrown at me. Results speak for themselves.


If a carb is a carb and if fat is fat. Then i can easily drink gatoraid for carb source a d fastfood for more carbs and fat then protein shakes. But i wont see results because iifym isbs... I used to drink 200 carbs of gatoraid because it was so much easier than oatmeal, i made it fit my macros, but results stopped. Then i went back to eating 95% clean and strength went back up.(same macros). Conclusion - iifym is bs




There r studies that show that ur body can use 20 g of proteina evry 2 hours but thats obviously bs. So therefore, studies mean nothing to me if iifym was legit then my progress would have not slowed down when i subsituted my oatmeal for chcolateship cookie sandwhiches... Simple as that.



I have friends that dont even count macros or calories and are pure monsters. They eat 100% clean and still get solid results.


I think if someone was to do iffym they would need it to be something small and have a purpose... Like a little mayo on tuna or ketchup for chicken.. Something small. Because thats what i do. But eat many veggies to make up for any micronutrients missed..

Thats the way i look at.

I agree with some of the stuff in the iffym crowd though. Like combining fats and carbs in meals. Im guilty of this, and havemt seen any negatives.. Or carbs at night time. But i dont agree with the junk food poptart iffym bs...
Just my opinon..
.

[cj111]

One thing I don't understand, what if someone was like well my macros are 5/5/90. Its still a set of macros, is the idea behind it since you're still in the daily calories, it doesn't matter where your macros come from ?
I had some young kids trying to tell me IIFYM is the best thing since sliced bread, and they weighed 150lbs soaking wet. That's besides the point. What if all your carbs from the day came from popcorn, or say Coca-Cola? What then...
My mom always said eat a healthy well balanced diet, protein carbs and good fats, and that's all you need. I still stick behind that. Why are moms so smart...

[Back In Black]

These 150lbers were probably only eating enough to support that weight making their macro split irrelevant. Plus I doubt they were really aware of what macro's even were.

Whatever your macro split is then, in theory, it matters not how you fill them. However, the harsh reality is that if you are eating insufficient whole foods then you will suffer in terms of if amount of and quality of vitamins and phytonutrients making your overall health suffer.

Plus, if you are allowed only 100g carbs daily, are you really gonna have all that as simple sugars and be even hungrier because they haven't satiated you?

Having said that I used to be holier than thou. I'd eat things I didn't like because they were better for me. Now I eat white rice, white potatoes, bread. I can even make chocolate fit in my macro's. I can easily hit sub 10% with that approach an it actually makes bulking much easier too.

[mockery]

keep in mind that competitive body builders off season just eat anything and everything and alot of it! so there is some merit behind this. But they know how to diet down when it matters.

[mockery]

One thing I don't understand, what if someone was like well my macros are 5/5/90. Its still a set of macros, is the idea behind it since you're still in the daily calories, it doesn't matter where your macros come from ?
I had some young kids trying to tell me IIFYM is the best thing since sliced bread, and they weighed 150lbs soaking wet. That's besides the point. What if all your carbs from the day came from popcorn, or say Coca-Cola? What then...
My mom always said eat a healthy well balanced diet, protein carbs and good fats, and that's all you need. I still stick behind that. Why are moms so smart...

this is a bit extreme, think of the whole IIFYM with out sugar, or say 100g blueberries that gives you 20-25g sugar daily and with keeping your sodium and bad fats in check. It could work, Depending on your goals.

sugar is the downfall of our society, i quit sugar last year while fasting for a few months, i have never felt better in my whole life

[gbrice75]

One thing I don't understand, what if someone was like well my macros are 5/5/90. Its still a set of macros, is the idea behind it since you're still in the daily calories, it doesn't matter where your macros come from ?
I had some young kids trying to tell me IIFYM is the best thing since sliced bread, and they weighed 150lbs soaking wet. That's besides the point. What if all your carbs from the day came from popcorn, or say Coca-Cola? What then...
My mom always said eat a healthy well balanced diet, protein carbs and good fats, and that's all you need. I still stick behind that. Why are moms so smart...

No, macros still matter, it's not about overall calories. i.e. if you require 250/200/60 that's what you aim for - but the idea is it doesn't matter how you fulfill said macros.

keep in mind that competitive body builders off season just eat anything and everything and alot of it! so there is some merit behind this. But they know how to diet down when it matters.

You're just referring to straight up old school bulking. I don't equate this to IIFYM. "Anything and everything" suggests there is no target caloric/macro goal.

sugar is the downfall of our society, i quit sugar last year while fasting for a few months, i have never felt better in my whole life

Amen

[jimmyinkedup]

sugar is the downfall of our society, i quit sugar last year while fasting for a few months, i have never felt better in my whole life

This a a huge statement. The modern diet full of processed foods either full of sugars or starches that rapidly convert to sugars in the body is rampant, Type 2 diabetes , meatbolic synndrome all up as a direct result of this. We live a stressful lifestyle. We put our bodies through extreme duress - general health is more important(or should be) imo for us even more so than people who do not live this lifestyle. The oxidative stress alone should be reason enough to eat a micro nutrient rich heathy diet. My biggest issue with the "IIFYM" is the whole focus on physical appearance in lieu of overall general health. This is why I take isue with the pop tart/ ice cream posts that people often post. Its where I take issue with Alan Aragon in his over the top posts he makes trying to prove a point. Could you look the same - yes I think you can - but your overall health will suffer. I started in this ifestyle to be healthy - while I may have made some choices along the way that are not the healthist - diet does not have to be one of them and I believe a healthy diet can help to offset some effect of what is , like it or not, an unhealthy lifestyle.

[gbrice75]

My biggest issue with the "IIFYM" is the whole focus on physical appearance in lieu of overall general health.

Exactly. IMO, a seasoned bodybuilder (or anybody who has put the time in to learn how to diet properly, and understands the roles and importance of nutrients, etc) CAN run an IIFYM style diet - because you know they won't follow an 'ice cream and pop tarts' diet... they'll still make healthy choices because they know that's what's best for them. My biggest problem with IIFYM is the appeal it has to beginners - people who have NO idea how to diet and think they'll see great results eating like shit. Quite frankly, they won't.

This is why I take isue with the pop tart/ ice cream posts that people often post. Its where I take issue with Alan Aragon in his over the top posts he makes trying to prove a point.

Man, I'm glad to hear you say this. I don't want to say I considered you an Alan Aragon 'fanboi', but we're friends and I'm comfortable enough to be honest and tell you that I thought you were close to it. I'm in complete agreement with you here. While Aragon IS one of the current brilliant minds in the sport, some of his articles ARE just that - over the top, to make a point. The problem again is when people take it all at face value and have no basis for comparison. They just take everything he says as gospel, and I believe that's a grave mistake. Glad you're not one of them brother.

[--->>405<<---]

Isnt alan aragon from that "other site" or am i mistaken??

[BR0DIE]

I eat like absolute shit and still maintain the same bodyfat whilst making steady gains. For example today I've had 2 Snickers bars, 2 scoops of ice cream, 4 pints of whole milk and I'm in the process of eating a mcdonalds. Probably have more junk food later too. Not saying it's healthy but I have a calorie goal and a protein goal for bulking. The reason I don't get fat is because I'm only eating 500cals over maintenance, whether that 500cals is 150g of oats or a double cheeseburger doesn't matter to me.

Aslong as I get 3800 calories and around 180-220g of protein per day I'm happy with the amount of lean mass I'm getting. A calorie is just a unit of energy after all.

I rarely visit the nutrition section of this site because I think there is too much broscience going around, eating over maintenance = weight increase (whether its fat or muscle depends on how many calories over maintenance you are and how efficient your training is).

I tried the whole 40/40/20 split full of clean foods for a few months and found my saneness and motivation levels taking a hit, the gains where pretty much the same although I was definitely less bloated eating clean. So I decided to go back to eating like a pig.

[cj111]

Go fulfill your daily carbs with chips and pop and report back . A carb is just a carb after all right?

[gbrice75]

I eat like absolute shit and still maintain the same bodyfat whilst making steady gains. For example today I've had 2 Snickers bars, 2 scoops of ice cream, 4 pints of whole milk and I'm in the process of eating a mcdonalds. Probably have more junk food later too. Not saying it's healthy but I have a calorie goal and a protein goal for bulking. The reason I don't get fat is because I'm only eating 500cals over maintenance, whether that 500cals is 150g of oats or a double cheeseburger doesn't matter to me.

Aslong as I get 3800 calories and around 180-220g of protein per day I'm happy with the amount of lean mass I'm getting. A calorie is just a unit of energy after all.

I rarely visit the nutrition section of this site because I think there is too much broscience going around, eating over maintenance = weight increase (whether its fat or muscle depends on how many calories over maintenance you are and how efficient your training is).

I can't even believe I'm allowing myself to get sucked into this specific discussion... again.

But damn, is that all there is to it? Wish I knew that sooner. That explains why there are so many people walking around with great bodies. One particular statement does interest me though:

The reason I don't get fat is because I'm only eating 500cals over maintenance, whether that 500cals is 150g of oats or a double cheeseburger doesn't matter to me.

So essentially you're saying macros don't matter to you, seeing as you're comparing 500 calories worth of oats (carbs) vs. 500 calories of a double cheeseburger (fats, carbs, and protein). Based on this, you're not even following IIFYM, you're following a strict 'calories in, calories out' or better yet 'a calorie is a calorie' type of diet.

Also good to know. I'm switching over to PB&J's immediately!

[< <Samson> >]

A calorie is not a calorie. . . .

My proof is me and my current neighbor who is following the old me.

My old and his current way is: I need 300g's of protein, 3k+ cals & about 300g's+ of carbs. I'll get some KFC, then drink 2 giant protein shakes. My #'s are dead on - - - but wait, WTF is going on? I'm gaining some half decent muscle, but I am starting to look like the Michellin Man. Why? I'm hitting my numbers, where is this garbage weight coming from?


Our body isn't stupid, KFC will make you fat if you eat it regularly. Really, it will. . .


Yet, you can manipulate this a bit. When I was doing my OG bulk back in the day without juice I worked a job where I could be away from the fridge for damn near 12-15 hours. So, I started using double cheeseburgers from McD's as a supplement. I would get 2 plain x2 greeseburgers and throw away one bun. Doing this actually helped me gain about 5-6 pounds of LBM in about 5 months. But, it gave me some negative sides for sure. After about 3-4 months my stomach said enough. I could barely hold my quad greeseburger before I would get the worst possible runs(well, just as bad as the ones I got from Cyntha 6). On my 5th month I came down with something similar to a ulcer.


So yeah, a calorie is not a calorie. And protein is not just protein. If it was we would all look like Jay Cutler while slamming shakes all day. Sure do wish it worked like that though.

[baseline_9]

I believe in macro counting..... Period..... Hit ur macros and you will get the results your after....

Micro's and fibre need to be in check also....

I aim to eat as much whole, natural foods as possible but if I want something and it fits my macros then I'm eating it