All you need to know about GYNO.

**jjay24** · 06-21-2006, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

jjay when did you develop these lumps? Are they tender at all?

Hey Bino,

My nipples have always been slightly puffy. But over the last 7 months they have got alot worse and more pointy. They also feel more tender and sometimes painful. I have attached a pic.

**just2getbig** · 06-21-2006, 03:44 PM

great post thank for the advice

**jjay24** · 06-22-2006, 04:46 AM

Hello Bino.

Let me start off by saying great post.
I am a newbie and would appreiciate if you can answer a few questions for me.

I am from the UK, 24 and have an athletic build with low body fat, I have never taken steroids but i have puffy nipples and tiny hard lumps underneath them which causes them to stick out. I have been to the doctor and he has ran all the hormone tests and everything was fine. I am desperate to reduce the puffyness and lumps beneath the nipples.

Can you suggest what i should take, how i should take it, and for how long? Please remember that i do not use steroid so do not understand cycles.

Thanks

I hope u can help me.

Originally Posted by C_Bino
jjay when did you develop these lumps? Are they tender at all?

Originally Posted by jjay24

Hey Bino,

My nipples have always been slightly puffy. But over the last 7 months they have got alot worse and more pointy. They also feel more tender and sometimes painful. I have attached a pic.

BUMP

**GoldsGymBoi** · 06-23-2006, 08:50 PM

Quick Gyno question. I made sure I re-read so I would not ask a dumb question. I hope I did not miss it if you already covered it. I got some lestro for gyno. However I have never done a cycle. I think I have natural gyno from my teen years. I am 26 now but all my life I have always had big puffy nipples. No lumps nothing hard or painfull. Now I have low body fat. I am lean and tight and about to start a natural gaining cycle and then a test cycle with dbhol and I will run lestro during my cycle. I was told that I might be prone to gyno because I have big puffy nipples. Having these since I was a kid will lestro reverse this even though I have had this since my teen years? I want to clear it up before starting a cycle and then making it worse. Or on the other hand if I have no lumps or pain just large nipples that are puffy do I even have gyno? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

**C_Bino** · 06-23-2006, 09:13 PM

Hey jjay, sorry I missed your post. Havent been checkin this thread as regularly lately. Anyways, since it just kinda developed outta no-where I am assuming you probably brough it on with a raise in bf% and use of alcohol, marijuana or another source. I am not accusing you of this but they can le3ad to gyno.

Letro is the best thing for you but I would definitely do it under doctor supervision. You can follow any of my protocols but your sex drive will suffer for sure, there are also other side effects and this is why i thinkg you should do it under doctor supervision because I AM NOT a doctor and I am not willing to just tell you this is going to work for you 100% and put you on something when I really know nothing about you.

**C_Bino** · 06-23-2006, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by GoldsGymBoi

Quick Gyno question. I made sure I re-read so I would not ask a dumb question. I hope I did not miss it if you already covered it. I got some lestro for gyno. However I have never done a cycle. I think I have natural gyno from my teen years. I am 26 now but all my life I have always had big puffy nipples. No lumps nothing hard or painfull. Now I have low body fat. I am lean and tight and about to start a natural gaining cycle and then a test cycle with dbhol and I will run lestro during my cycle. I was told that I might be prone to gyno because I have big puffy nipples. Having these since I was a kid will lestro reverse this even though I have had this since my teen years? I want to clear it up before starting a cycle and then making it worse. Or on the other hand if I have no lumps or pain just large nipples that are puffy do I even have gyno? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

I wouldnt bother going through with letro when you dont even have any lumps behind your nipples. I mean some people just have larger nipples, its a simple fact of life. In fact I know a few people that have larger kinda puffy nipples but have never touches AAS and have a low bf%. I would not tell them to do letro because I mean your nipples are kinda how they are, you cant really change the size of the aereola unfortunately. I mean to a degree you can reduce puffyness but I wouldnt suggest it in your case.

And you are not necessarily prone to gyno on cycle. But having a good AI on hand like you do (letro) you are a step ahead of some people and you should be fine.

**GoldsGymBoi** · 06-23-2006, 10:02 PM

Thank you so much for taking time to help Bino. I really appreciate it.

**C_Bino** · 06-23-2006, 11:47 PM

Oh anytime man. I wish I could help you out more but I am much more experienced with AAS related gyno of course so your problem is a little harder and I would not want to send you in the wrong direction. But seeing as how you said you read the whole thread Im sure you read the part where I talked about the study in where males who developed gyno during puberty were treated with 60mg tamoxifen (nolva) each day for 18 months and had the size of the gland reduced by 50%. So non-AAS related gyno can be reduces if not completely reversed its just somethin you should talk to your doc about, especially considering you dont have an enlarged mammary gland and rather just puffy nipples.

**GoldsGymBoi** · 06-26-2006, 05:58 PM

Hey Bino I hope you are still reviewing this thread. I went and double checked. I guess I did not know what I was looking for. I thought by lump and a pea size it would be like a hard ball or something. Anyway I got my mom who is a nurse to feel and I do have a lump under my right nipple. It does not hurt or anything. But I know my brother has the same look to his nipples as well as my Dad. But they are both really over wieght where I am not. Could Lestro reverse this possibly? There is a lump there. I am following your dosing cycle for off cycle and I started today. What are your views? Thanks a mill.

**C_Bino** · 06-26-2006, 06:35 PM

Ya it could definitely work but like I said before its not a guarantee. Since you mom is a nurse this is good since she can look over your usage of this and make sure everything is going well. Just be sure to get blood work done and make sure you are staying healthy.

**GoldsGymBoi** · 06-26-2006, 07:57 PM

Thank you :-) Do you think a cycle would make this worse? I want to try a cycle and I have researched it for a couple years now

**house20** · 06-27-2006, 11:55 AM

great post...i have two questions....1. with a test prop cycle run at 100mg eod...u recommend running any serms or ais with it...any nolva run along with the cycle or just for pct... and also 2. will there always be a lump if gyno...or can ur nipples just be very sensitive....again awesome post

**jjay24** · 06-27-2006, 03:23 PM

Is nolva safe to use if you don't use steroids ?

**C_Bino** · 06-27-2006, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by GoldsGymBoi

Thank you :-) Do you think a cycle would make this worse? I want to try a cycle and I have researched it for a couple years now

Yes a cycle could make gyno worse for sure. This is how many people get gyno in the first place.

**C_Bino** · 06-27-2006, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by house20

great post...i have two questions....1. with a test prop cycle run at 100mg eod...u recommend running any serms or ais with it...any nolva run along with the cycle or just for pct... and also 2. will there always be a lump if gyno...or can ur nipples just be very sensitive....again awesome post

Well I cant tell if you need a SERM or AI in your cycle on you can. If you get estrogen related sides than you most likely need one, if not you dont. Impossible for me to be able to know.

And yes most likely there will always be a lump, not in every case but that is pretty much the definition of gyno especially from AAS use.

**C_Bino** · 06-27-2006, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by jjay24

Is nolva safe to use if you don't use steroids?

Ye sbut only under doctor supervision. Im not gonna go around on this board telling people to start taking medication that is perscribed for women with breast cancer if they dont even use steroids . It is safe imo but I would not just start doing it without consulting a doc first.

**fromgc** · 06-27-2006, 10:56 PM

C Bino,
I've got 5 days left on a SD only 21 day run. A few days ago noticed the nips a little puffier and possibly, I may be paranoid, a soft lump under left nip. I have nolva on hand and will probably have letro tomorrow. The question that I have is should I: a) continue on SD for 5 days and immediately start taking nolva at 40 or 20 and then regular pct (I planned on 21 day nolva PCT, 60 mg day 1, 40 days 2-11, and 20 days 12-21) followed by your letro gyno reversal and nolva again for estrogen rebound control, or b) start the letro immediately, ramping up and holding for a week at 2.5 and then ramping down and starting the above nolva pct?

If option a, at what dosage and duration for the nolva to control the letro estrogen rebound?

If option b, will having no aas after the 5th day of letro have any effect?

Thanks,
I joined this board after reading through your post here and liking the detailed info.

**fromgc** · 06-28-2006, 10:20 PM

c bino, you out there bro?

**C_Bino** · 06-28-2006, 10:24 PM

Well i have already covered how much nolva to use to cover your ass in terms of rebound. 20mg for a week and then 10mg for a week should be just fine. Anyways I know pretty much NOTHING about superdrol and any of that stuff, but as far as I know (and like I said it isnt much) superdrol doesnt aromatize so it is not possible for you to be getting gyno from it. That means you dont need to run letro so dont worry about it man.

Just go on with your cycle and do a proper PCT and you will be fine. But check out if superdrol actually aromatizes first and get back to me. If it doesnt you are just paranoid. If it does than sure run the letro.

**fromgc** · 06-28-2006, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Well i have already covered how much nolva to use to cover your ass in terms of rebound. 20mg for a week and then 10mg for a week should be just fine. Anyways I know pretty much NOTHING about superdrol and any of that stuff, but as far as I know (and like I said it isnt much) superdrol doesnt aromatize so it is not possible for you to be getting gyno from it. That means you dont need to run letro so dont worry about it man.

Just go on with your cycle and do a proper PCT and you will be fine. But check out if superdrol actually aromatizes first and get back to me. If it doesnt you are just paranoid. If it does than sure run the letro.

Sorry about missing the amount on the rebound question. Everything I read says that it doesn't, but then some stuff says it may give progesterone induced gyno, and some places say delayed gyno (which I assume is mainly due to improper or otc pct). I guess the reality is without being a chemist and doing trials on the stuff, who knows. Guess that's the cost of messing with this stuff.....the great unknown. There seems to be lots of info, but lots of stuff that is contradictory. Thanks for the advice. I'll post if any more stuff develops.......Maybe my cals are too high and put on some fat......

**C_Bino** · 06-28-2006, 10:49 PM

Ya well just from reading what you said: that there is a soft lump possibly behind your nip I am assuming that possible you are feeling fat stores. If you had an enlarged mammary gland it would be fairly easy to detect, and it would be fairly sore to the touch. I say do a good PCT and you will be fine. You only have like 3-4 days left anyhow right?

Dont worry too much and get your diet in check so bf% is in order and you will be fine man.

**fromgc** · 06-28-2006, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Ya well just from reading what you said: that there is a soft lump possibly behind your nip I am assuming that possible you are feeling fat stores. If you had an enlarged mammary gland it would be fairly easy to detect, and it would be fairly sore to the touch. I say do a good PCT and you will be fine. You only have like 3-4 days left anyhow right?

Dont worry too much and get your diet in check so bf% is in order and you will be fine man.

Yep, 4 days left and then the pct of nolva that I outlined in the above post.

I can manipulate it without any discomfort. I've had a little soreness in my pec area, but think it's probably just doms and from max effort in the power rack (i work out at home and don't have a spotter) and Monday on the last set i went to failure and ended up with the bar on my chest until I could wiggle out from the safety bars. Who would have thought I'd be glad to hear that I was just paranoid!

I'll clean up my diet while on pct, but will keep my protein high and keep lifting hard. Anything else to help maximize the gains I can retain?

**house20** · 06-29-2006, 06:29 PM

Well I cant tell if you need a SERM or AI in your cycle on you can. If you get estrogen related sides than you most likely need one, if not you dont. Impossible for me to be able to know.

And yes most likely there will always be a lump, not in every case but that is pretty much the definition of gyno especially from AAS use.

right but would u start a cycle without anything if its ur first...or would u take it without...and than if u see sides take it?...and estrogen sides just meaning nip tenderness

**C_Bino** · 06-29-2006, 07:19 PM

Very first cycle you may wanna try going without an anti-e to see if you really need it. If your bf% isnt under 12 I would suggest you are going to need it though.

**house20** · 06-30-2006, 12:38 AM

alright thanx man...body fat at 11%....ill take the advice..ur thread is a great help...i appreciate it....ill let u know how it goes...thanx again man..big help...u know ur shit lol

**bacd2006** · 06-30-2006, 01:00 AM

I'm on week 9 of boldenone cycle 300-350mg, I start with Test Cyp 250mg on week 3 and now that 250mg/week is causing me gynecomastia even when I had 100mg of Proviron (mesterolone) since week 6 and after 5 days of 30mg of Nolvadex the “gyno” remains. Am I taking drugs wrong? I want to know How to take the ancillary drugs, single dose? Before-after meals or even empty stomach? Morning, evening, same time…etc…

I will get the LETROZOL in 2 days but meanwhile, what can I do? Could MASTERON help?

I’m really concern. I’ll appreciate your advice, thanks in advance

**C_Bino** · 06-30-2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by bacd2006

I'm on week 9 of boldenone cycle 300-350mg, I start with Test Cyp 250mg on week 3 and now that 250mg/week is causing me gynecomastia even when I had 100mg of Proviron (mesterolone) since week 6 and after 5 days of 30mg of Nolvadex the “gyno” remains. Am I taking drugs wrong? I want to know How to take the ancillary drugs, single dose? Before-after meals or even empty stomach? Morning, evening, same time…etc…

I will get the LETROZOL in 2 days but meanwhile, what can I do? Could MASTERON help?

I’m really concern. I’ll appreciate your advice, thanks in advance

Well if you read through my post you would see that I said nolva wont do much for you at all. You just need to get the letro to help you out.
As for when to take them it doesnt matter at all. They are all absorbed in the gastro-intestinal tract so empty or full stomach wont make a difference, you can also take it all in one dose at any time during the day you wish. Masteron wont help.

**bacd2006** · 07-02-2006, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Well if you read through my post you would see that I said nolva wont do much for you at all. You just need to get the letro to help you out.
As for when to take them it doesnt matter at all. They are all absorbed in the gastro-intestinal tract so empty or full stomach wont make a difference, you can also take it all in one dose at any time during the day you wish. Masteron wont help.

Thank you so much, very accurate info.

I've stopped taking aromatisable long esters and start with the letrozol, but I'm considering to have winstrol for 1-3 weeks in order to finish my cycle, this way I'll start PCT after finish both Letrozole and Steroid cycles, do you believe this is advisable? (I read in one previous post that Winstrol helped a guy with the gyno, is this possible?)

Note: I only have Letrozol Tabs 2.5mg (FEMARA) with some coating, should I split the tabs despite of this coating?

What do you know about FULVESTRANT, as an antiaromatise drug is it similar to arimidex or letrozole or both? Is it better? $?

Thanks

**fromgc** · 07-05-2006, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by fromgc

Yep, 4 days left and then the pct of nolva that I outlined in the above post.

I can manipulate it without any discomfort. I've had a little soreness in my pec area, but think it's probably just doms and from max effort in the power rack (i work out at home and don't have a spotter) and Monday on the last set i went to failure and ended up with the bar on my chest until I could wiggle out from the safety bars. Who would have thought I'd be glad to hear that I was just paranoid!

I'll clean up my diet while on pct, but will keep my protein high and keep lifting hard. Anything else to help maximize the gains I can retain?

Well, 4 days into recovery and everything seems to be doing what it should. I ended up with just shy of 13 lbs lean mass and strength holding and feel much better now. I guess I was just being paranoid when I was suspecting I was growing boobies. Maybe just losing a couple pounds of water weight, but my nips sure look flatter.
Thanks again C.

**C_Bino** · 07-06-2006, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by bacd2006

Thank you so much, very accurate info.

I've stopped taking aromatisable long esters and start with the letrozol, but I'm considering to have winstrol for 1-3 weeks in order to finish my cycle, this way I'll start PCT after finish both Letrozole and Steroid cycles, do you believe this is advisable? (I read in one previous post that Winstrol helped a guy with the gyno, is this possible?)

Note: I only have Letrozol Tabs 2.5mg (FEMARA) with some coating, should I split the tabs despite of this coating?

What do you know about FULVESTRANT, as an antiaromatise drug is it similar to arimidex or letrozole or both? Is it better? $?

Thanks

Fulvestrant (faslodex) isnt used too much by bodybuilders that I have come across. I would personally never use it either and well can be pretty damn sure NO one would use it as an anti-e.
The reason I or others dont run it is for a few reasons. It has to be injected, yup thats right you cannot take it orally. Sure you say this isnt a big deal, we are already injecting AAS. But you have to think about this, if its being injected than it can cause bloating. We use anti-e's to relieve bloating and this drug can actually cause it, mind you now, because of this there is also a lot less chance of getting joint pain while using faslodex...so sure that is a bonus. Also there is pretty much ZERO information out there about its use in males for gynecomastia . It was also just fairly recently actually approved to be used (could be wrong on this but this is my impression).

This is not an aromatase inhibitor either, but its not a SERM. One other reason you would not find people using it. It is an estrogen receptor antagonist or more appropriately an ERD (estrogen receptor downregulator). Sounds ok right? Well what this means is that it actually attacks your estrogen receptors and destroys them. This means even after you stop taking it you are without these receptors, now the human body is amazing and can the receptors grow back, well Im not sure but it seems anything is possible in our bodies. The only other bonus here is that is OBVIOUSLY does not act as an estrogen agonist like most SERM's do. This is the main problem with serms imo, sure they block receptor sites but can also act as estrogen in other parts of the body. I have never had much sucess with them on cycle anyway.

So I would have to advise against faslodex man. Even if you did get it I would not be able to give you dosing information on it. From what I have read it is usually used in 250mg shots, whether this would suit our purpose I have no idea so I wont be much help.

**C_Bino** · 07-06-2006, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by fromgc

Well, 4 days into recovery and everything seems to be doing what it should. I ended up with just shy of 13 lbs lean mass and strength holding and feel much better now. I guess I was just being paranoid when I was suspecting I was growing boobies. Maybe just losing a couple pounds of water weight, but my nips sure look flatter.
Thanks again C.

Glad to hear this man. Keep on liftin.

**roc86** · 07-09-2006, 09:55 PM

Just like to say ive joined this forum after finding this great thread done by Bino ... and I come with a situation and a few questions
***sorry for the length

Alright, gota bro (an MMA fighter) that has messed around a bit in the past with some Dbol , Winny, and a couple of Var onlys never with ANY gyno symptoms. Now, a month ago while gearing up for a fight he began taking only 20mg of Var ed (from a very reputable Canadian lab, wont say the name). He stopped @ 12 days in due to nipple discoloration and puffyness.
@ this point in time he began nolva @40mg ed, that only seemed to aggrevate his nips even more ... so he ordered some letro. He ended up being on nolva for 2 weeks and had ramped up to 80mg ed without any improvement. Nip still was puffy, with a soft squishy lump under it, and seemed sensitive. Now he has been on letro for 10 days @2.5 mg (didnt ramp up) and is taking 600mg B6 ed. Hes pretty sure its improved, sex drive is dead but hes got cialis. Now, considering its been over 3 weeks since last adminsitering the apparent anavar his systems clear, and impaired testicular function shouldnt be an issue. Although there is still some discoloration(whitish, no lactating) and puffyness @ times hed like to ramp off like you said @.25mg increments every day. Hes done with AAS, hes a monster for his weightclass regardless is really doesnt want to risk making anyhting any worse now.
Now ... his last dosage of nolva was very high, and it will not clear the system for 5-7 weeks, hence, the chance for a rebound is strong. So.. that being said would you reccommend tapering off the letro, then going 20mg a week then 10mg a week like you said... thx bros

**C_Bino** · 07-09-2006, 11:17 PM

Ya for sure man he still needs to use some type of estrogen protection to help him with rebound. Even if he ran nolva at a very high amount it wont be active in his system for a long time after as any orally administered drug loses its active power fairly quickly.

The B6, I would advise be cut down somewhat as it is really only to help with prolactin and needs to be run no higher than 200mg per day as supplemented through pills. As he will still be getting some B6 through his regular diet and multi-vitamin (assuming he is taking one).

The discolouration of his nipple is something new to me and would actually suggest he see a doctor about it. I mean if ANY part of my body became discouloured I would seek the advice of a physician.

But definitely taper the letro down slowly over about a week and then run some nolva for a couple weeks to be sure he is covered.

**roc86** · 07-10-2006, 03:03 PM

thanks Bino ... the one concern is that nolva does upregulate progesterone hence whatever estrogen there is will be more senstive. But yeah, hell will begin to slowly taper, and regarding the discoloration hes not gona mess with it for a week, and if that not resolved hes gona get some bloodwork done. thx

**doublefister** · 07-17-2006, 01:10 PM

Bino,

I have been on TRT for a couple months now and have developed gyno being on 100mg test cyp and 500IU's HCG a week. Also, on 3IU's a day of HGH and still working up.

My doctor cant believe that I have started to develop gyno but my nips started getting pretty sensitive in about the 7th week or so. I already feel lumps and my nips would lactate if I squeeze them. So my doc put me on .5mg of Arimidex eod. I questioned him on it because I didnt think he realize the severity of my gyno so he told me to go ahead and start using .5mg ed. I also started taking 40mg of Nolvadex along with it. I have been taking it for a week now and my nips are a little better with less sensitivity but my lumps are still there.

Would you suggest upping my dose of Arimidex or should I ditch it and start the Letrozole right away working my way up to 2.5mg a day? Should I also ditch the Nolvadex or maybe take it at night time instead of with my Arimidex?

I also have about 3 weeks left on my TRT before the doctor puts me on some Nolvadex or Clomid so how should I put all this together if I start Letrozole or if I continue my Arimidex?

**YZFR1Tim** · 07-17-2006, 07:18 PM

bino, great post! You answered all my questions about reversing gyno and preventing it. hopefully with the cycle i just started i won't have to worry about it.

**auslifta** · 07-18-2006, 08:31 AM

great info, thanks def read for all. happy lifting

**bacd2006** · 07-18-2006, 08:10 PM

Is there a possibility that my Gyno would be mostly fat accumulation? The lump was reduced with letrozol but not completely. How and when would be a a good time to verify if there is glandular tissue? Can I go to the clinic and ask for a mammography?

Thanks

**doublefister** · 07-20-2006, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by bacd2006

Is there a possibility that my Gyno would be mostly fat accumulation? The lump was reduced with letrozol but not completely. How and when would be a a good time to verify if there is glandular tissue? Can I go to the clinic and ask for a mammography?

Thanks

What dosage did you take and for how long were you on that dosage? How bad was your gyno also?

**bacd2006** · 07-20-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by doublefister

What dosage did you take and for how long were you on that dosage? How bad was your gyno also?

My gyno was due to test cypionate and boldenone , I start to feel "something" around the nipple at week 6, start with nolva but didn't work, in the 9th week I start to see (and feel) a fast growing lump so I quit the shoots and start with letrozol (as described in this thread) for three weeks now, the problem stops and the lump was reduced a little.
The lump remains and is very soft around the nipple, no pain, no sensitivity. (23% BF) Should I go longer with letrozol?