All you need to know about GYNO.

**lifterjaydawg** · 07-20-2006, 05:54 PM

great post, very easy to understand, thanks.

**C_Bino** · 07-22-2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by bacd2006

My gyno was due to test cypionate and boldenone , I start to feel "something" around the nipple at week 6, start with nolva but didn't work, in the 9th week I start to see (and feel) a fast growing lump so I quit the shoots and start with letrozol (as described in this thread) for three weeks now, the problem stops and the lump was reduced a little.
The lump remains and is very soft around the nipple, no pain, no sensitivity. (23% BF) Should I go longer with letrozol?

Well lowering your bf% will definitely help man. It will help with less estrogen sides when you do go on a cycle, and when you do get things like gyno it will be much easier to distinguish.

For now if you said the lump went down somewhat keep going for a little while and see if you can get it to go down even more. But be sure it is not just fat. It should be harder than regular lipid tissue.

**bacd2006** · 07-22-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Well lowering your bf% will definitely help man. It will help with less estrogen sides when you do go on a cycle, and when you do get things like gyno it will be much easier to distinguish.

For now if you said the lump went down somewhat keep going for a little while and see if you can get it to go down even more. But be sure it is not just fat. It should be harder than regular lipid tissue.

Thanks, I'll continue with letrozol and reduce BF to 13% within to months and see how bad the problem is, for now the lump is very soft (like fat tissue) I'll keep you posted. Thank you so much

**seff** · 07-25-2006, 08:47 PM

Bino, this post in itself has given me reason to finally subscribe to this forum. First off just wanted to say - GREAT POST.

But now to my question..

In terms of progesterone related gyno - symptoms such as puffy nipple with no sensitivity or glandular/lump development - More so fat related deposits. How do you recommend tackling this?

Essentially, my bf% is low as it is. But, there is a definite accumulation of fat under and behind the nipple causing a pointy and outward appearance that I have not been able to reduce/burn off with diet and cardio. I have gone ahead and ordered Nolva and Letro but am not sure which route to take?

Should I just take the nolva for now at 40mg ED to see if it battles it on its own before moving onto something more potent such as Letro, Or should I immediately start with Letro and then use Nolva to tackle the rebound. Thanks for Advance.

EDIT - I have been using finasteride combined with a bad diet (at the time) and fear it has induced the current estrogen/progesterone related pseudo-gyno.

**Anabolios** · 07-26-2006, 04:01 PM

when you say trib is good to keep your sex drive up while on letro...can proviron be substituted for the trib? or not because its an AI?

**C_Bino** · 07-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by seff

Bino, this post in itself has given me reason to finally subscribe to this forum. First off just wanted to say - GREAT POST.

But now to my question..

In terms of progesterone related gyno - symptoms such as puffy nipple with no sensitivity or glandular/lump development - More so fat related deposits. How do you recommend tackling this?

Essentially, my bf% is low as it is. But, there is a definite accumulation of fat under and behind the nipple causing a pointy and outward appearance that I have not been able to reduce/burn off with diet and cardio. I have gone ahead and ordered Nolva and Letro but am not sure which route to take?

Should I just take the nolva for now at 40mg ED to see if it battles it on its own before moving onto something more potent such as Letro, Or should I immediately start with Letro and then use Nolva to tackle the rebound. Thanks for Advance.

EDIT - I have been using finasteride combined with a bad diet (at the time) and fear it has induced the current estrogen/progesterone related pseudo-gyno.

Well Im glad this post has helped you and made you decide to sign up here. It's a great site bro.

As far as your question goes I would suggest just running a moderate dose of letro and not doing a whole reversal as there is no glandular problem in your case. Many report just using say .5mg ed will help reduce the puffiness of nipples. I wouldnt bother using nolva until you are done with letro as it isnt gonna do anything for progesterone except maybe make it worse.

But keeping a low bf% and using a good AI on cycle always helps with this.

**C_Bino** · 07-26-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

when you say trib is good to keep your sex drive up while on letro...can proviron be substituted for the trib? or not because its an AI?

Hmmm, this I am not 100% sure to be honest. Personally I havent run proviron so its hard for me to tell exactly.

Usually the only time you need to keep your sex drive up using letro is off cycle or during PCT.

In the case of PCT I dont think priviron is a problem if it is part of your regular PCT routine, but off cycle I would use the least number of drugs possible and always resort to herbal remedies when you can so I would take the tribulus personally at 2-3g per day 80% saponins.

Now when I use letro for PCT I take it in the morning and take all other compounds at night before bed, this is especially important if you are including nolva in your PCT.

Again, I dont have personal experience with proviron and have never read about running them together in any medical reports so it is hard for me to say exactly. I will look into it.

**beastrg** · 07-28-2006, 11:09 AM

C BINO,

So what would be the protocol if u got progesterone related gyno from deca while on cycle (were not using an AI or serm on cycle)?

Would u use the letro?

The best thing would be to use letro from the beginning as prog. gyno cant occur without estrogen but u dont wanne be running extra meds IMO if u dont need them...(presuming ur not aware that ur gonna get gyno off deca/tren )

**C_Bino** · 07-28-2006, 10:36 PM

I dont really know of a great way to reverse progestin induced gyno. I know people report that nipples become less puffy when they begin to use letro, but there would not be a specific protocol for it, simply run it at say .5mg ed for a little while.

**beastrg** · 07-29-2006, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

I dont really know of a great way to reverse progestin induced gyno. I know people report that nipples become less puffy when they begin to use letro, but there would not be a specific protocol for it, simply run it at say .5mg ed for a little while.

would aromasin be a better choice than letro?

And if u did get gyno from deca nolva shouldnt be used...correct? as it upregulates the PgR

**C_Bino** · 07-29-2006, 01:30 AM

Nolva is complete shit on cycle, that is my personal belief. A serm is just not a good idea when on cycle, sure for PCT but I just dont see why people always use nolva as a kind of base, and why it is shoved in everyones face as the MUST HAVE when you start a cycle...BULLSHIT. I believe AI's to be MUCH MORE effective and personally would not just want to block estrogen from receptor sites, sure than you may not get gyno (MAY NOT) but you can certainly still get acne, bloated as a blimp and add bodyfat as well.

Aromasin for progersterone? Well I havent tried it, I would be a little more skeptical about it but this is speculation mind you. Femara and anastrozole are better choices I believe.

**judge_dread** · 07-29-2006, 02:52 AM

Bino no need to say this is an excellent thread in terms of information, I got a rather funny question man, what if I have Letrozole (Femara) in the original 2,5mg tab? I can't have doses like .5 mg or something! I can only divide it by 4 and get 0,625mg!

**C_Bino** · 07-29-2006, 04:51 PM

Ya some people only have pill form. The way I set it up isnt like set in stone, you can just split it in 4 and take 1/4 the first day and then an extra piece each successive day no worries.

**styxecl** · 07-30-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

The only thing I can think of is that your letro may be fake, I cant see how its possible that anyone can be getting gyno taking 2.5mg ED, that is crazy. Make sure you have legit stuff, because if you do than you are EXTREMELY, I would say almost impossibly prone to gyno if there is still enough estrogen binding the the receptors to cause an increase in gyno after running it at 2.5mg ED. Really man there isnt anything else I can suggest, I hate to say it but I mean letro is very strong stuff, there should be almost ZERO estrogen in your body at this point.

hi bino!

ive continued the letro at 2.5 ED for 2 months now and i cant say ive noticed any difference. do you think there is any point carrying on? i;ve seen a legit website where you can get 2.5mg letro tabs so im considering getting them to see if they work better incase my letro was underdosed.

im also planning to get my lipids checked to see if theres any need to stop using the letro...if not i might as well carry on cos it;ll still be cheaper than surgery

thanks for all your help bro!

**castertroy** · 07-30-2006, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Nolva is complete shit on cycle, that is my personal belief. A serm is just not a good idea when on cycle, sure for PCT but I just dont see why people always use nolva as a kind of base, and why it is shoved in everyones face as the MUST HAVE when you start a cycle...BULLSHIT. I believe AI's to be MUCH MORE effective and personally would not just want to block estrogen from receptor sites, sure than you may not get gyno (MAY NOT) but you can certainly still get acne, bloated as a blimp and add bodyfat as well.

Aromasin for progersterone? Well I havent tried it, I would be a little more skeptical about it but this is speculation mind you. Femara and anastrozole are better choices I believe.

so femara and anastrozole will block estrogene and block acne, bloat etc? or at least better than nolva. can u name a few more?

thanks bro

**C_Bino** · 07-31-2006, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by styxecl

hi bino!

ive continued the letro at 2.5 ED for 2 months now and i cant say ive noticed any difference. do you think there is any point carrying on? i;ve seen a legit website where you can get 2.5mg letro tabs so im considering getting them to see if they work better incase my letro was underdosed.

im also planning to get my lipids checked to see if theres any need to stop using the letro...if not i might as well carry on cos it;ll still be cheaper than surgery

thanks for all your help bro!

Ya best thing would be to get blood work done to see if you are ok. You have been using it for quite a while so I would be hesitant about running it longer unless you get a new source because you know your other was bunk.

**C_Bino** · 07-31-2006, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by castertroy

so femara and anastrozole will block estrogene and block acne, bloat etc? or at least better than nolva. can u name a few more?

thanks bro

Well estrogen can bring on bouts of acne. But AI's wont just take away acne if you have it, that is not their purpose. But if you run them properly throughout the entire cycle and keep a steady dose in your system than yes your acne will not be as bad imo.

Femara, anastrozole or exemastane would be the most viable three.

***BajanBastard*** · 07-31-2006, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by beastrg

C BINO,

So what would be the protocol if u got progesterone related gyno from deca while on cycle (were not using an AI or serm on cycle)?

Would u use the letro?

The best thing would be to use letro from the beginning as prog. gyno cant occur without estrogen but u dont wanne be running extra meds IMO if u dont need them...(presuming ur not aware that ur gonna get gyno off deca/tren)

No such thing as 'progesterone gyno'.

**seff** · 07-31-2006, 09:49 PM

Bino, one last question as i'm about to begin taking letro .25-.5mg/day in the next day or two

Is it OK if I continue taking my finasteride dose along side letro?

**styxecl** · 08-01-2006, 07:19 PM

thanks for your continuing help mate!

i have a docs appointment so will get the blood work done.

it may be my wishful thinking but starting this third bottle seems to be working better...my joints are aching to ****! and sex drive way down again. dunno if it could be that the first were underdosed but not all i bought in the batch. something else i noticed is that the new bottle im using now seems a lot clearer than the one i just finished....dont know if anything off the syringe i was using to measure out the 1ml each day could have lived in the letro and damaged it somehow...i somehow cant see much being able to live in that shite! lol

either way i'll consider whether to continue or not after i get the blood work results

thanks for all your help bino!

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Ya best thing would be to get blood work done to see if you are ok. You have been using it for quite a while so I would be hesitant about running it longer unless you get a new source because you know your other was bunk.

**bigeater** · 08-05-2006, 01:16 PM

I have bitch tits. I don´t have like womenbreasts but I have fat in my chest/breasts and I have stiff/puffy nipples. I don´t have any lumps. Two doctors have said that I don´t have gyno. I am not overweight but I have like 16 % bodyfat. I have one bottle of nolva and I have ordered a bottle of lean extreme from BB.com. Do you think that that is enough to take before I deside to do the surgery? The nolva last one month if I take 40 mg a day for two weeks and then 20 mg a day. Should a buy one more bottle of nolva or should I buy liquidex to decrease estrogen and bloat?
I am going to do cardio 4 - 7 times a week.

**C_Bino** · 08-05-2006, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by seff

Bino, one last question as i'm about to begin taking letro .25-.5mg/day in the next day or two

Is it OK if I continue taking my finasteride dose along side letro?

Hey bro, sorry but I cant help with fina/duatsteride at all. I know pretty much nothing about them at all since I have never lost a single strand of hair, I simply have had no reason to ever look into them.

Sorry.

**C_Bino** · 08-05-2006, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by bigeater

I have bitch tits. I don´t have like womenbreasts but I have fat in my chest/breasts and I have stiff/puffy nipples. I don´t have any lumps. Two doctors have said that I don´t have gyno. I am not overweight but I have like 16 % bodyfat. I have one bottle of nolva and I have ordered a bottle of lean extreme from BB.com. Do you think that that is enough to take before I deside to do the surgery? The nolva last one month if I take 40 mg a day for two weeks and then 20 mg a day. Should a buy one more bottle of nolva or should I buy liquidex to decrease estrogen and bloat?
I am going to do cardio 4 - 7 times a week.

If its just fat than merely cutting your bodyfat to around 10% will do you a lot of good. If there are no lumps there really isnt much you can do, I mean if you are getting surgery but your docs told you you dont have gyno what are they going to do during surgery? Is it lyposuction?

I highly doubt nolva or any SERM/AI will help you out, its fat not gyno.

**C_Bino** · 08-05-2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by styxecl

thanks for your continuing help mate!

i have a docs appointment so will get the blood work done.

it may be my wishful thinking but starting this third bottle seems to be working better...my joints are aching to ****! and sex drive way down again. dunno if it could be that the first were underdosed but not all i bought in the batch. something else i noticed is that the new bottle im using now seems a lot clearer than the one i just finished....dont know if anything off the syringe i was using to measure out the 1ml each day could have lived in the letro and damaged it somehow...i somehow cant see much being able to live in that shite! lol

either way i'll consider whether to continue or not after i get the blood work results

thanks for all your help bino!

Anytime man. Glad to hear you are noticing some improvements, somtimes it takes a while and patience pays off.

But glad you are gettin blood work done. With aching joints be careful, make sure you keep them lubricated with proper EFA supplementation and even try some glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM.

**styxecl** · 08-10-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Anytime man. Glad to hear you are noticing some improvements, somtimes it takes a while and patience pays off.

But glad you are gettin blood work done. With aching joints be careful, make sure you keep them lubricated with proper EFA supplementation and even try some glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM.

sorry for the late reply! havent been able to check on the board for a while!

im using cod liver oil, as well as glucosamine, is the oil suitable as a lubricant would you say?

again thanks for your help bro! much appreciated!

**bacd2006** · 08-11-2006, 11:47 AM

I’m on week six of gyno reversal with letrozol ("Femara"), SLIGHT decrease of the lump is noted... When would be a good time to make a blood lipid Test after LETRO?

Anyone starting with LETRO, keep in mind that it will kill your sex drive (Not function, I believe sex function is based on Testosterone ), make changes on your mood and possibly changes blood lipids (that’s why I’m doing a blood test)

**jaymac7** · 08-12-2006, 08:43 AM

I saw on page 3 you told someone to use a syringe, not the spray. What if I don't have access to a syringe today. Even if I order one, it wouldn't be here for a few. I don't want to delay any longer. Do the regular liquid (non-hypodermic) syriges that you can get at GNC measure down to that small of an amount? If not, I have the Letro spra. How many sprays should I be taking? I fall under category "3" of your scenarios. I did 5wweks of superdrol, no gyno, then 6 weeks of PCT (anabolic Xtreme), no gyno. Then the weeks after I stop - gyno. It's been about 2 weeks now, just got the Lestro in yesterday.
What should i do?
Thanks~

**Skins06** · 08-12-2006, 12:14 PM

Great thread and awesome advice Bino.

Quick question...Only done one cycle so far (400mg cyp/week for 10 weeks, 30mg dbol ed weeks 1-4) and I ran nolva throughout at 20mg a day and had no gyno problems. Next cycle I'm running enanth. 500mg/week, 4 weeks of dbol at 30mg/day, and EQ at 400-500mg/week.

All the info. about arimidex and letro have convinced me to get some, but since I'm only adding EQ (which I don't think aromatizes too well), would you recomend running the arimidex or letro from the beginning of the cycle with the nolva or just start with nolva and use whichever AI I chose if symptoms of gyno pop up? Just looking for a "professional" opinion.

**bigeater** · 08-13-2006, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

If its just fat than merely cutting your bodyfat to around 10% will do you a lot of good. If there are no lumps there really isnt much you can do, I mean if you are getting surgery but your docs told you you dont have gyno what are they going to do during surgery? Is it lyposuction?

I highly doubt nolva or any SERM/AI will help you out, its fat not gyno.

I have a small waist and stomach and fat chest. I guess I just have to do cardio and lose more bodyfat. If I still have bitch-tits when I have low bodyfat I´m going to do the plastic surgery. I am very depressed. Do you think that it gets harder to lose the bitch tits or that they can get worse if I take anti-depressives?

**C_Bino** · 08-13-2006, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by styxecl

sorry for the late reply! havent been able to check on the board for a while!

im using cod liver oil, as well as glucosamine, is the oil suitable as a lubricant would you say?

again thanks for your help bro! much appreciated!

Ya oils will help to lubricate joints but I doubt it will make a big impact as Im sure you already get them as most of us do through foods or supplementation, and we still get the pains. Try to get a glucosamin/chondroiton mix.

**C_Bino** · 08-13-2006, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by bacd2006

I’m on week six of gyno reversal with letrozol ("Femara"), SLIGHT decrease of the lump is noted... When would be a good time to make a blood lipid Test after LETRO?

Anyone starting with LETRO, keep in mind that it will kill your sex drive (Not function, I believe sex function is based on Testosterone), make changes on your mood and possibly changes blood lipids (that’s why I’m doing a blood test)

Good idea man. I would get blood tests soon if I were you, anywhere approaching the two months mark or any drug is a good time to check, ESPECIALLY if you plan to continue usage.

**C_Bino** · 08-13-2006, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by jaymac7

I saw on page 3 you told someone to use a syringe, not the spray. What if I don't have access to a syringe today. Even if I order one, it wouldn't be here for a few. I don't want to delay any longer. Do the regular liquid (non-hypodermic) syriges that you can get at GNC measure down to that small of an amount? If not, I have the Letro spra. How many sprays should I be taking? I fall under category "3" of your scenarios. I did 5wweks of superdrol, no gyno, then 6 weeks of PCT (anabolic Xtreme), no gyno. Then the weeks after I stop - gyno. It's been about 2 weeks now, just got the Lestro in yesterday.
What should i do?
Thanks~

You can use the pump spray if you want, just make sure its clean and not blocked by any residue everytime you go to use it.

1 spray = .1mL
10 spray = 1mL

letro = 2.5mg/mL

So if you want 2.5mg simply get 1mL or 10 sprays.

**C_Bino** · 08-13-2006, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Skins06

Great thread and awesome advice Bino.

Quick question...Only done one cycle so far (400mg cyp/week for 10 weeks, 30mg dbol ed weeks 1-4) and I ran nolva throughout at 20mg a day and had no gyno problems. Next cycle I'm running enanth. 500mg/week, 4 weeks of dbol at 30mg/day, and EQ at 400-500mg/week.

All the info. about arimidex and letro have convinced me to get some, but since I'm only adding EQ (which I don't think aromatizes too well), would you recomend running the arimidex or letro from the beginning of the cycle with the nolva or just start with nolva and use whichever AI I chose if symptoms of gyno pop up? Just looking for a "professional" opinion.

I always recommend using an AI like letro or arimidex from the beginning of cycles, dont even bother with the nolva at all. Just run a maintenace dose of either AI @ .25 or .5mg ed.

**C_Bino** · 08-13-2006, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by bigeater

I have a small waist and stomach and fat chest. I guess I just have to do cardio and lose more bodyfat. If I still have bitch-tits when I have low bodyfat I´m going to do the plastic surgery. I am very depressed. Do you think that it gets harder to lose the bitch tits or that they can get worse if I take anti-depressives?

Well I will never advocate for someone taking anti-depressants. There are other ways around it, you just have to have strong will power and do somethin about the problem instead of relying on drugs which never really cures the problem just covers it up for the time being.

But I dont know if anti-depressants would worsen existing gyno or not man. Just get into the diet forum here and really get a great diet/cardio routine down, even try an ECA stack or clen if you are physically fit to do so.

**doublefister** · 08-14-2006, 12:26 AM

Bino,

Being on TRT running 100mg test cyp a week, 500IU's HCG a week, and 3IU's HGH a day. I believe I got gyno from the HGH because I was lactating. I got up to 3.5IU's and I have dropped the HGH. I want to get back on but not sure if I want to run Dostinex because of the price. Will Letro or Arimidex do the trick to prevent gyno from coming back and also the lactating or will I have to stick with the Dostinex or maybe Selegiline

**AllStarr** · 08-21-2006, 11:56 AM

Im sure this has already been covered here, but I am going to ask again.... I was on Winny and about 4 weeks after i was off i noticed a small lump under my right nipple and very slight puffiness, not really sore or anything though. What should i do to try and reverse this, what should i take, how much, etc. Thanks

**C_Bino** · 08-21-2006, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by doublefister

Bino,

Being on TRT running 100mg test cyp a week, 500IU's HCG a week, and 3IU's HGH a day. I believe I got gyno from the HGH because I was lactating. I got up to 3.5IU's and I have dropped the HGH. I want to get back on but not sure if I want to run Dostinex because of the price. Will Letro or Arimidex do the trick to prevent gyno from coming back and also the lactating or will I have to stick with the Dostinex or maybe Selegiline

Hard to say exactly because HGH induced gyno can be from IGF increase...in all honesty I dont wanna lead you in the wrong direction so Im gonna have to honestly say Im not too sure what to do in that case. I mean if its the IGF increase causing it I dont know what you could use.

**C_Bino** · 08-21-2006, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by AllStarr

Im sure this has already been covered here, but I am going to ask again.... I was on Winny and about 4 weeks after i was off i noticed a small lump under my right nipple and very slight puffiness, not really sore or anything though. What should i do to try and reverse this, what should i take, how much, etc. Thanks

Ummm, thats what this entire thread is about man. Go back and read the initial post.

**coach669** · 08-24-2006, 11:34 AM

Bino,
I just did a 10 week cycle of 400mg week test enanthate and 300mg week Nandrolone . I was taking anastrazole .5mg 3 times a week. Toward the end of the cycle my nipples got real pointed and puffy but never sore. I then added Tamoxifen 21mg and did PCT with HCG and Clomiphene but did not see any change in my nipples. Could this be fat deposits? I am around 14-15% body fat. Would Letro help? Also is there any way to prevent this from happening on the next cycle.
Thanks

**C_Bino** · 08-24-2006, 08:50 PM

Be sure to take your AI EVERYDAY, whether it be letro, arimidex or aromasin run it everyday not 3 times per week. That just wont cover you completely.

And I dont think you need letro really to be honest. Get the bodyfat down and lose any bloat you may have and you should be ok.