"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

**MASTER** · 04-10-2009, 08:34 AM

Raloxifene looks considerably more promising than nolva. Also, there are many studies proving the effectiveness of nolva on gyno that has been present for 2 years or longer. There is a specific study on ralox and nolva that was purely used on those with puberty induced gyno, the ralox patients had all had it for at least 3 years!

**mind4** · 04-11-2009, 09:11 AM

Great read

**Friend** · 04-13-2009, 04:40 AM

How do you detect gyno? I've read your nipples become sensitive, painful to touch and they get larger. Is this right? And so if i don't experience sensitive or larger nipples during my cycle, i don't have to worry about gyno?

**WARMachine** · 04-14-2009, 03:00 PM

Sorry for the lack of responses guys.

Im very busy at the moment, but will do a better job of answering questions, as well as continuing to add to the thread.

Again, sorry fellas. I promise to work on it this week.

-WAR

**xo3et** · 04-19-2009, 04:15 AM

Just read through this and covered a few questions i was curious about

Thanks WarMachine, was a joy to read.

**WARMachine** · 04-19-2009, 04:21 PM

^ No problem bro.

Hopefully additons will be done by Tuesday. Just finishing writing them up and researching a little more.

Also sending out some PMs to experts in particular areas for help.

**Swifto** · 04-19-2009, 05:50 PM

I dont know if I had a PM coming my way, but I'll add what I can...

It seems it is possible to reverse already formed gyno from puberty, but I'm not sure if gyno caused by androgens would be different. Here's a study that proves obliterating estrogen can cause mammary gland apoptosis.

Mammary Gland Cell Death Also Involves Lysosomal Autophagy
Reginald Halaby
Department of Biology & Molecular Biology Montclair State University Upper Montclair, NJ 07043

ABSTRACT:

The mammary gland undergoes apoptosis when estrogen ablation occurs, either naturally or enforced. The gland is known to execute the apoptotic process post weaning. Although the involuting mammary gland displays the characteristic biochemical features of apoptosis, including DNA fragmentation, chromatin condensation, and the formation of apoptotic bodies, it also shows evidence of an autophagic death. In this report, apoptosis of the gland was induced by removing the pups from their nursing mothers. In particular, we show that lysosomes increased in size and number, and moved from basal to apical regions in dying rat mammary gland cells. Lysosomal enzyme activities were significantly greater in degenerating mammary gland (day 4 post weaning) epithelial cells when compared with day 0 gland cells. Moreover, these hydrolases were responsible for degrading cytosolic and nuclear components, and thus the whole cell. Taken together, our results demonstrate that the mammary gland dies by lysosomal autophagy in addition to apoptosis during post-lactational involution. Our studies indicate that the lysosomal compartment may serve as an important target organelle for the creation of specific, effective, and novel therapies for breast cancer.

ERalpha is responsible for growth and proliferation of ductal and glandular growth, which must be reduced. Rolax and Tamox both have a binding affinity to ERalpha, primarliy.

It seems ERbeta can actually slow growth and proliferation of breast tissue and has done when conducting studies done when ERalpha is present.

However, it seems some compounds (Epistane) that bind to ERbeta offer benifit too. How? I dont know yet? Maybe some tissue is primarily ERbeta and when this is reduced (using Epistane/Havoc) the tissue and/or gland is reduced in size, possibly why some users report Epistane/Havoc got rid or reduced their gyno...?

http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/3/465

I'm going to be running some Epistane soon and will combine it with Tamox at 10-20mg/ED to try to reverse some gyno I have (although I think surgery is my only option) and get a cycle out of it.

Lastly, for reversal, a DHT based topical is needed IMO. Something like Formistane or Targex applied to the area where gyno is.

It should also be noted that apoptosis and regression of the tissue making gyno, wont happen overnight. Most studies on pubescent boys using Tamox and Ralox, was around 3-9 months long. Not 2-3 weeks.

You should also favour a testosterone to estrogen ratio. Testosterone needs to be present too.

So...

Tamox + Epistane/Havoc + Topical Formistane

**WARMachine** · 04-20-2009, 07:23 PM

You indeed have a PM coming your way bro!

And that post is exactly why!

Kudos my man! Ill be hitting you up shortly to review some things for me.

-WAR

**peachfuzz** · 04-20-2009, 07:42 PM

Useless thread...went through three pages and didnt find one mention of PGCL. I thought this thread was comrehensive. I was duped!

**kwise** · 04-20-2009, 07:47 PM

Can you stack andropen 275 and test 400 if so what kind of gains

**WARMachine** · 04-20-2009, 07:52 PM

^ Please start your own thread in Q&A.

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

Useless thread...went through three pages and didnt find one mention of PGCL. I thought this thread was comrehensive. I was duped!

^ You.

Please burn in hell.

lol

**peachfuzz** · 04-20-2009, 07:53 PM

wrong thread...start your own in the question and answer section and post some stats if you want anybody to help you...

**peachfuzz** · 04-20-2009, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

^ You.

Please burn in hell.

lol

Nor did I find mentioned the obvious "perform your own gyno surgery," some of our members have had great success with this method so i feel it deserves a mention.

**WARMachine** · 04-20-2009, 07:59 PM

^ Well im planning on adding that. As well as the "preform your own brain surgery" addition i was writing.

Wanna be the Guniea Pig Peachy?

**peachfuzz** · 04-20-2009, 08:19 PM

**WARMachine** · 04-20-2009, 08:22 PM

^ Some sick people out there....

**murphylee** · 04-21-2009, 09:40 PM

no way is that for f'n serious?

**TheCoZ** · 04-23-2009, 01:12 PM

Hey guys, i'm new to this site. I just had a quick question. I've had gyno for 2 years now, i stopped taking prohormones in the beginning of 2007. I went to the doctor and he was gonna take them out for me but then told me that there was a chance of deformation. That was a year and a half ago and since then I haven't been insured because I went off my parent's insurance (graduated college). Would Tamox or Letro help get rid of gyno even though it has been 2 years since i got it?

**8iron** · 04-23-2009, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by TheCoZ

Hey guys, i'm new to this site. I just had a quick question. I've had gyno for 2 years now, i stopped taking prohormones in the beginning of 2007. I went to the doctor and he was gonna take them out for me but then told me that there was a chance of deformation. That was a year and a half ago and since then I haven't been insured because I went off my parent's insurance (graduated college). Would Tamox or Letro help get rid of gyno even though it has been 2 years since i got it?

warmachine will be on here usually somtime this evening he can help u with this...but if im reading swifto post right up there, it could be possible looks like it could take up to 3 to 9 months of running the stuff............

**WARMachine** · 04-23-2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by TheCoZ

Hey guys, i'm new to this site. I just had a quick question. I've had gyno for 2 years now, i stopped taking prohormones in the beginning of 2007. I went to the doctor and he was gonna take them out for me but then told me that there was a chance of deformation. That was a year and a half ago and since then I haven't been insured because I went off my parent's insurance (graduated college). Would Tamox or Letro help get rid of gyno even though it has been 2 years since i got it?

Read Swiftos post at the top of this page. Its exactly why he wrote it up.

Post again if you have anymore questions.

**NR2.0** · 04-23-2009, 05:10 PM

Thanks WarM. Unfortunatly this has just made me more confused!

Think I am more than likely confusing myself, although I am now more educated on all forms of Gyno so not a bad thing.

Thanks and Bump

**WARMachine** · 04-24-2009, 02:54 AM

Answered your PM.

**cloud_strife** · 04-26-2009, 06:51 AM

Nolvadex doesn't reverse gyno, I agree

**bighital** · 04-26-2009, 06:54 AM

Great thread--You know your shit....

**LATS60** · 04-26-2009, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by cloud_strife

Nolvadex doesn't reverse gyno, I agree

LOL. Can you read?
WAR, all that hard work and now we know that nolva doesn't reverse gyno,
all we had to do was ask cloud_strife.
Keep up the good work, i'll be in touch soon, RE: articles & Clomid.

**WARMachine** · 04-27-2009, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

LOL. Can you read?
WAR, all that hard work and now we know that nolva doesn't reverse gyno,
all we had to do was ask cloud_strife.
Keep up the good work, i'll be in touch soon, RE: articles & Clomid.

Aw man... For sure buddy, i apperciate it. Let me know whenever you get a chance my brother!

**UCfer08** · 04-28-2009, 09:57 AM

Quick question, I followed the letro reversal protocol for not on cycle, and it has drastically reduced the size of the gyno to where it is seems to be staying at the same size it is now, my question is when I start tapering down from the letro, Is Nolvadex a must to prevent it from coming back or could i use an otc estro blocker, also should I take tribulus now bc my sex drive is completely shot.
Thanks

**WARMachine** · 04-28-2009, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by UCfer08

Quick question, I followed the letro reversal protocol for not on cycle, and it has drastically reduced the size of the gyno to where it is seems to be staying at the same size it is now, my question is when I start tapering down from the letro, Is Nolvadex a must to prevent it from coming back or could i use an otc estro blocker, also should I take tribulus now bc my sex drive is completely shot.
Thanks

^ Trib is a waste of money IMO.

But to answer your question, Nolva is used after tapering Letro to control the estrogen rebound effect. No OTC estrogen blocker wil do the job properly.

Use the Nolva.

**UCfer08** · 04-28-2009, 09:19 PM

Thanks man, yea I figured that and ordered the nolva today, appreciate the info, btw how long after the letro should i expect my sex drive back? Thanks again man.

**icepick27** · 04-29-2009, 04:52 PM

Does over the counter novedex prevent gyno ?

**WARMachine** · 04-30-2009, 09:14 AM

^ No.

OTC Nolvadex will not prevent gyno.

Please start a thread in Q&A with your problems if you need more help.

**Mr.TrX** · 05-02-2009, 10:39 PM

that is wicked crazy man

**Mr.TrX** · 05-02-2009, 11:16 PM

great thread i feel my knowledge of this stuff grows with every post and "IMO" on here

**bjpennnn** · 05-03-2009, 05:43 PM

this is a very intresting read has anyone done this and had any successs?

**WARMachine** · 05-03-2009, 06:08 PM

Gyno reversal with Tamox? ^^^

Yes...

**bjpennnn** · 05-03-2009, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Gyno reversal with Tamox? ^^^

Yes...

so is this possible with gyno from steriod use and ad for about a year?

**jmcamz2899** · 05-03-2009, 08:21 PM

thanks man

**bjpennnn** · 05-04-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by bjpennnn

so is this possible with gyno from steriod use and ad for about a year?

bump

**WARMachine** · 05-04-2009, 01:34 PM

I dont understand your question?

Do you mean is it possible to reverse gyno after its been developed for over a year?

**8iron** · 05-04-2009, 01:35 PM

PM warmachine on this........he is the man on this situation .....or start a thread on ur situation and youll get lot of different input.....ur choice