"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

**TheSupremo** · 11-11-2009, 01:13 PM

thanks alot good read

**rawknee** · 11-26-2009, 03:40 PM

I'll try to make this short and sweet.

Male 31, 5ft 6inches 165lbs 14-15%bf (if i had to guess) Personal Trainer

I've been doing blood work/tests since sept with my endocrinologist.
Today after all the tests, i am perfectly healthy.......estrogen, testosterone , liver, cholesterol blah blah blah are all above normal.
I have never taken any kind of "supplement" other than a protein powder.

I asked him about taking things like letro/nolva.....simple response "NO" it wont work because since these are estrogen inhibitors and my estrogen levels amongst everything else is fine it won't do anything.

I'm off to try and get a second opinion with another specialist, but in the meantime any suggestions?

Thanks in advance

**number28** · 12-09-2009, 08:01 AM

Sup bros!
I have been doin lots of reading and self-educating about pcts and various drugs used but every time I make up my mind on the type of pct I want to use I get some kind of crtiazizim and feel confused. I read ur pct sticky and enjoyed very much and was hoping u guys can give me ur opinion.
I plan on doing test e for 10weeks 125mg every 4 days, however after realizing the long half live of this type of easter I assume that any 'leftover' test will just accumulate overtime and I will have 'overlapping' test levels.
Ex:125mg E4D- therefore after 3 weeks I should have the desired amt of test in my system due to accumulation.
now my supplier has gone away to south america so I'm limited to the types of AIs and pct products. I have a contact that can get me clomid but he's not sure on hcg or nolvadex .
Would this be ok to use as my only pct or would you recommend I hold of until I get my hands on hcg (but would have to wait till my contact gets back in march, too long)?

Also what would the desired amt be for me considering the amt and time of test I'm using?

I hope I won't take too much of ur time. I would really appreciate ur input. Thank you so much for yourtime.
My stats:
31
162lbs
5'10
**8-10 bf%
** WARMachine, you stated in ur post that excesive body fat would aid in gyno. I don't have gyno now and feel as if I'm not pron to it.
-Al

**dadebreezy** · 12-23-2009, 08:25 AM

im taking my testostrone 400mg cycle of ethanate) im on my 5th shot. but i heard of pct? whats the point of taking it?

**scotimus** · 12-23-2009, 09:21 AM

you have a lot of research to do. you should have never started cycling until you had an understanding of pct and the drugs in your possession...go to the first page of this thread and start reading

**Egypt.One** · 01-26-2010, 06:20 AM

Wow, I have been researching for months now and almost learn a new thing here everday. This read is a wealth of good info - such a great synonpsis, I want to follow it to the T, Therefore I have one obsservation, this might be a typo or whatever or maybe I just have my head screwed on backwards while reading it.

You stated:

"FOR ON CYCLE ESTROGEN CONTROL"

Adex - .5mgs EOD (For first time users.)

If sides do not decrease much, you may increase the dose to .25mgs ED, or as high as .5mgs ED. I would not exceed 1mgs ED use under any circumstances, at that point, the use of Letro should be looked at.

..."you may increase the dose to .25mgs ED, or as high as .5mgs ED"

Obviously .25 mgs ED is more than .5 mgs ED so how could you be uping the dose? - Is it supposed to be the other way around, or did you mean EOD for the .25 mgs?

Thanks in advance

**AnimalJ** · 02-11-2010, 11:54 AM

Very informative, thank you for the great read.

**over812** · 02-11-2010, 07:20 PM

Great article WAR! I plan on reading through it several more times as this topic will definitely be part of any cycle I decide on in the future!

Thanks!

**BJJ** · 02-15-2010, 04:15 AM

Great thread

**Wjdb** · 02-19-2010, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

let's keep this bumped guys, it's a great read

Hi I have breast lumps from usin 3 years ago can I still get rid of them or is it to late?

**BIG KAY** · 03-01-2010, 10:13 PM

Ive used both nolva and arimidex ..... both worked pretty good, but i got better results from nolva personally. I am taking 500 mg of Test E e/w and 350 of Deca and the Nolva takes care of my nipples much better at around 5 mg every day. I had to take 1 mg of arimidex every day to keep the same and being that each pill (1 mg) is around $3 underground and $5 pharma, it was a bit expensive. Arimidex is supposed to work better because it actually lowers estrogen levels while Nolva only competes at the receptor sites..... to each his own i suppose.

**WARMachine** · 03-09-2010, 06:42 PM

First off, i apologize ive been unavailable for the last few months, ive been out of the country (not willingly). But im back in the US (legally, finally) and Ill be checking this thread periodically for questions about the article. For answers/advice on all other questions, including questions on your particular cycle/PCT, please start your own thread, and post them there.

If i dont respond to your thread, feel free to PM me with a link to said thread. I will ignore PMs that have questions that have been answered in the article, thats what this thread is for.

Thanks.

-WAR

**Shadeed** · 03-19-2010, 03:55 AM

Thanks WARMachine for such a good thread, i have a question (Sorry not sure if addressed here before!):

For Test E & Tren Ace cycles and to fight Estrogen & progesterone:
Few recommended not to use Nolva while on this cycle, many recommends Cabergoline over Bromocriptine and visa versa, few say Letrozole is the way to go for both (Est/Prog), read few posts saying Proviron & Caber will do the job and also aid gains, at the end, i am totally lost

So what do you recommend in this situation?

**carl johnsen** · 03-19-2010, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

^ Thanks bro.

Im working on getting it included in the AR Newbie Starter Pack.

Hopefully between there and the PCT stickies people will actually read it.

Til then i plan on pimping it out to anyone who will listen.

Lol.

can u tell me what is "Dexamethasone" because i can't find it in the steroid profile. what is for, amount we should take because i saw 1 tab only contains 0.02mg.

thanks...

**G-force 606** · 03-21-2010, 10:50 PM

it needs days to read this article

**Terry_Dew** · 03-22-2010, 01:25 AM

Okay I'm a newbie but I've been researching a boat load and i have a question. Say someone already has gyno (inherited genetically) and he starts a cycle of Tren /Test prop/Winny should he also run Tamox (which cures gyno) during the cycle to help him get rid of the gyno or should he use it in PCT with the usual stuff like Clomid, Nolva, etc.

**jdizzletrizzle93** · 03-26-2010, 05:45 PM

hey can you please teach me how to start a new thread? like i wanna ask my own question about tren and stuff but i have no clue how to do that

**Shadeed** · 03-27-2010, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by jdizzletrizzle93

hey can you please teach me how to start a new thread? like i wanna ask my own question about tren and stuff but i have no clue how to do that

Go to this link:
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/

Then see the attached picture.

**WARMachine** · 04-06-2010, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Shadeed

Thanks WARMachine for such a good thread, i have a question (Sorry not sure if addressed here before!):

For Test E & Tren Ace cycles and to fight Estrogen & progesterone:
Few recommended not to use Nolva while on this cycle, many recommends Cabergoline over Bromocriptine and visa versa, few say Letrozole is the way to go for both (Est/Prog), read few posts saying Proviron & Caber will do the job and also aid gains, at the end, i am totally lost

So what do you recommend in this situation?

Shadeed, i am very sorry for the delay on your questions and PM. I havent had much time to be on, visiting family, as well as business dealings.

First off, what is the exact cycle in doses? Have you ever had ERSEs before? If so, what? Have you ever used Tren before?

Lets start there, and well move on.

**Shadeed** · 04-06-2010, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Shadeed, i am very sorry for the delay on your questions and PM. I havent had much time to be on, visiting family, as well as business dealings.

First off, what is the exact cycle in doses? Have you ever had ERSEs before? If so, what? Have you ever used Tren before?

Lets start there, and well move on.

No Worries WAR, i hope you enjoyed your visit.
Well my Stats:

- Age: 33
- Height: 180cm
- Weight: 95 Kg
- BF%: 10-13%
- 10 years serious training.
- This will be cycle no#6 but 1st time doing Tren and Test Prop.

My cycle setup:

- Weeks 1-10 --> Test P @ 50 mg ED
- Weeks 1-10 --> Proviron @ 100 mg ED
- Weeks 1-7 --> Tren A @ 40 mg ED
- Weeks 8-9 --> Tren A @ 70 mg ED

Today i am on the 8th day and just did my 8th injections, since day 5, i started to see buffy nipples and a little bit sore/sensitivity in my left nipple

I have Caber, Bromo and Nolva on hand. Reluctant to buy Aromasin , Adex or Letro (Pharma Grade *** USD for only 30 Tablets!) i mean if it's really really my only choice i will get one of them...

I got many feedback from the Reputable members over here;
- Marcus300 recommended Caber during the cycle and Nolva only if sides appears.
- Swifto recommended Aromasin during the cycle and to keep Caber or Bromo on hand, he also confirmed that taking Nolva during Tren or Deca cycles will not cause any problems.
- RANA recommended Adex and Caber or Bromo during the cycle.

I also have 6-oxo from an old PH cycle, i used it for the last 2 day at 3 caps with the last meal before bedtime, sides are almost gone, but really not sure, may be i want to believe that sides are gone! Will keep watching

if this works it will save me a good amount of money

That's all

Thanks,
Shadeed

**nanu** · 04-15-2010, 01:24 PM

www.steroidy-net.info

**Pay2Play** · 04-20-2010, 10:39 AM

I developed Gyno & I am in a cycle. I immediately started taking Nolvadex 20mg a day to as recommended from a buddy. After a fews days symptons remained the same & maybe even progressed alittle, so I finally got to a computer to come here & research (I travel for sports) I read C-Bing's thread, it built up urgency, printed it off (with no names or sources) and took it to my Doctor. Gave the thread to him, he prescribed me 30 Letro pills 2.5mg, (I only filled 1/2 with refill, otherwise cost almost $500 for all 30 tabs) and gave me a 5ml suringe. Told me to disolve the tab in the syringe with water, take .5mg, day 1, 1.0mg day to and so forth as C-Bing recommended. I also am continuing the Nolvadex, 20mg a day.

My questions are, should I stop all use of Test E & EQ, come off cycle with the Letro, the Letro & Nolvadex both, or can I continue cycle using just Letro, or using Letro & Nolvadex both. I am on day 2 of the Letro & day 7 of the Novadex, I have cycled 3 times before and never have had any problems, and I have always come off with 30mg of Clomid. I also was wonder how soon I can expect the Gyno to go away? I am in the middle of a season & can not afford strength losses or any "crashes".

Thanx for any help you can give. I have read, reread, and reread again and could not find the exact answer to my specific questions.

**bdodge2** · 04-22-2010, 07:08 AM

^^^along the same lines......
on other threads I had read that taking small dosages of letro through the cycle is a very effective AI.. I had itchy nipples just from my HRT dose of 200/week, but my dr would not give me adex...

Through my cycle I ran .25 letro eod and it seemed to work very well...i tapered it off at the end....it was liquid so I didn't have to cut the pills.

my question is, how badly would this have affected my gains and I assume that it would throw my lipid profile off?

Could you stack letro and nolva at these light dosages...the nolva primarily to to its positive cholesterol properties??

I want to run a tren cycle....I dont have prami or bromo available..so will controling estrogen with letro control the progesterone sides as it binds to the aromatase and therefore inhibit breast tissue that prolacin needs to work on??

**Pay2Play** · 04-23-2010, 11:21 PM

Wasn't getting much response to to my post here, so I kept researching other sources. I stop taking the Nolvadex as I read in another post & continuing with the Letro. I am on Day 5 of the Letro and @ 2.5mg, so I am taking a complete tab instead of the disolved one in a syringe. Let me tell you, high dosages of Letro ain't much fun, side effects suck! I am staying @ 2.5mg a day intill Gyno reverses (as in C-Bing's post) then I will disolve tab in syringe, then back off to 2mg, 1.5mg, 1.0mg, .5mg while adding Nolvadex into those days. I am continuing my cycle with Test E & EQ to hopefully elimate the "No Sex Drive" & strentgh gain losses side effects from the Letro. I will finish my cycle on Nolvadex and complete it with 30mg of Clomid.

Thats my plan & will try & keep you peep's informed. If there is something that I am not doing right, now's the time to speak!

**gbrice75** · 04-25-2010, 08:37 AM

What a great read, thank you WARMachine! I am about to start my first cycle and have been researching PCT for months. This read was the confirmation I needed that i'm going in the right direction. My cycle is dbol (weeks 1-4) and test e (weeks 1-12). I was planning on taking L-dex .25mg EOD as a preventative measure. There has been debate on my thread about this, but after reading your post I am sticking with it. PCT will be Nolva and Clomid, weeks 14-18. After reading this, I am seriously considering looking into HCG as well. Thanks again!

**BJJ** · 04-25-2010, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

What a great read, thank you WARMachine! I am about to start my first cycle and have been researching PCT for months. This read was the confirmation I needed that i'm going in the right direction. My cycle is dbol (weeks 1-4) and test e (weeks 1-12). I was planning on taking L-dex .25mg EOD as a preventative measure. There has been debate on my thread about this, but after reading your post I am sticking with it. PCT will be Nolva and Clomid, weeks 14-18. After reading this, I am seriously considering looking into HCG as well. Thanks again!

Lol, your pct starts @ week 15.

**Pay2Play** · 04-27-2010, 10:37 AM

Thought I would keep you still informed from my above listed posts (2 others) ^^^^^

I am on Day 8 of the Letro, been 4 days @ 2.5mg (complete tab) as C-Bings Post instructed. (first 4 days was a disolved tab @ lower & increasing dosages) I have learned to prevent most of the side effects, I take them @ night before bed. I also learned to take Letro ALONE & not to mix with Ibprofin or Execedrine @ the same time, take pain relievers for muscle akes & such an hour later or so.

My Gyno seems to be getting better, feeling wise atleast. It use to be that even a loose shirt rubbing my nipples would hurt, now touching them has no discomfort what so ever. When my nipples are cold or not relax, the only signs of Gyno would be if you squeezed them, you will feel like a Nickel is hiding in behind my nipples. When my nipples are relaxed, they still look some what "puffy" and stick out more than usual. I do find myself consistently through the day feeling to see if my "Nickel Lump" has shrunk, but no luck so far. I have done 5 pills, the first one disolved in syringe over 4 days, and tonight will be my 4th tab at 2.5mg. I will have 7 tabs left before I will have to refill. I paid $217 bucks (american currency) for 12 tabs, so I hope this goes away before the refill is needed.

I hope by my logs this will help others and I hope I can get on here and post that it worked for me! I wish by my description someone could tell that I am not too far along into Gyno stages & could tell me how much Letro or how many days it will take to reverse.

**Pay2Play** · 04-27-2010, 10:42 AM

.....also to add from above post ^^^^^^

I have discontinued use of the Nolvadex (as mentioned before) and continued with 1ml of Test E & 1ml of EQ every 3 days. I have NOT lost any strength gains nor any decrease in sex drive. Continuing with Test & taking Letro before bed has pretty much eliminated all Letro Side Effects.

**hihorizon2** · 05-07-2010, 10:49 PM

[QUOTE=WARMachine;4516932]Ok now guys, i wrote this thread because i see a million posts every week about the subject. So I thought to myself why not make a thread about gyno and ways to prevent it, because i felt its one of a few subjects that is touched on, but not fully explained for most out there. As well as inform these new guys about prevention opposed to waiting till there is a problem.

I'm posting this in Q&A because no one goes into the PCT section, especially new guys. So i thought it'd be best seen here.

Now it seems to me, most newbies do little to no research before coming in here, asking dumb questions that can easily be found with limited effort. Granted, i was once one of those newbies, and i even admit, i have changed my opinion on certain topics more than once. But its because of listening and learning from more experienced guys than myself, finding new medical articles on said topics, and the good ol' trial and error system. So don't post here saying 'Oh yeah! This isn't what you said on x/x/08! Or you said something different on time.' This is why i will periodically be updating this thread with new info.

Now here we go!

So i put this together to include my opinions on how to avoid estrogen related side effects (namely gyno for this particular thread) among other things, namely how Tamox does in fact cure gyno, but well get to that later.

Now there are a few schools of thought on this subject;

The first one being that once you get gyno, begin the reversal ASAP. I feel the issues with doing so on cycle are as follows.

Letro is the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit as much as 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg. Running a gyno reversal during the cycle will cause a few problems because of this. Now as i'm sure you know, estrogen is needed as much as testosterone is when it comes to muscle building. Running the reversal during the cycle will cause you to maintain a low level of estrogen throughout the cycle (This causes serious gain losses IMO).

I am new to this, so can some help me out. I have the Liquid Letro 30mL 2.5mg/mL. Can someone tell me how to administer the Letro? Is it a injectable? Also, can I use insuline needes in the stomach ? thanks....

**hihorizon2** · 05-07-2010, 10:50 PM

I am new to this, so can some help me out. I have the Liquid Letro 30mL 2.5mg/mL. Can someone tell me how to administer the Letro? Is it a injectable? Also, can I use insuline needes in the stomach ? thanks....

**srt8rippin11** · 06-02-2010, 08:01 PM

bump! this shit was so helpful thanks bro

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 06-05-2010, 02:44 PM

BUMP!!!!!! nice info

**RAMWolff** · 06-14-2010, 02:28 PM

Never mind, I got the info I needed
Thanks

**RAMWolff** · 06-18-2010, 01:42 PM

Never mind, I got the info I needed
Thanks

**RAMWolff** · 06-19-2010, 08:50 AM

Vitamin C: At doses of about 1.5 grams a day, can have a lowering effect on elevated cortisol, not to mention its other healthy effects.

I take 3000 Mg.s a day. I hope that's enough to reduce cortisol levels. At 49 years of age it's good heart health to take 3000 Mg's a day in any case but if it keep cortisol levels down as well, well a two for one is a good thing! :-)

**RJ09** · 06-21-2010, 09:36 PM

^^bump good thread im new here and so far i like what im finding about serm's

quick ? guys im gona start a d-bol cycle what serm should i grab if needed

**Baseball_Player85** · 08-03-2010, 01:01 PM

amazing thread. I will have to read more of your threads.

**RAMWolff** · 08-03-2010, 01:49 PM

Update on my gyno, using the Liquid Torem 60mgs/mL 60mL it's gone! WOOT! Didn't seem like it was working and then all of a sudden .... poof! I'm very happy. Going to see my doctor tomorrow. that will be stressful since he didn't approve of this therapy but he's an AIDS doctor so his knowledge in this area is VERY limited.

**BJJ** · 08-18-2010, 11:01 AM

bump

**RAMWolff** · 08-18-2010, 11:20 AM

Had to put my doctors visit off but when I did go in to see him he felt my now normal pec and asked ... did you get the Nolvadex and I said Yes and he said good, it's done the job. I was a bit shocked as I expected a speech about why I shouldn't have gone the route I did... WOOT. Made my day. He was clearly happy for me too so all's well... :-)