TRT - Self Administered?

[MickeyKnox]

Wasn't trying to hijack this thread just found it by a google search. Will do

right on brother!

[gbrice75]

Wasn't trying to hijack this thread just found it by a google search. Will do

Of all the threads on all the boards across the internet, Google search decides to pull up mine on a TRT search... figures!!!

No worries brother.

[oldnsedentary]

I have results for serum test - 586 (348-1197)

This does not seem low enough to be considering TRT.

[gbrice75]

This does not seem low enough to be considering TRT.

Please read through the entire thread. This was my test reading from over a year ago. Recent labs done in August had me at 346 (2 points below the lowest number in the reference range). Furthermore, free test (which we're more concerned with) wasn't tested for on the original labs, but was back in August and was quite low, around 5 or so.

[oldnsedentary]

Please read through the entire thread.

I tried, but it's 7 pages!

[gbrice75]

I tried, but it's 7 pages!

lol, I hear you. You should see some of my threads in the Nutrition forum...

[MickeyKnox]

i just read your update thread. excellent news bro!

a request: if it's not a bother, could you keep your updates here GB? i would appreciate it very very much my friend. following along and enjoying every minute.

[gbrice75]

i just read your update thread. excellent news bro!

a request: if it's not a bother, could you keep your updates here GB? i would appreciate it very very much my friend. following along and enjoying every minute.

No problem brother, trying to for the most part. Hasn't been much to update on lately, but I did have a doc appt today.

He kept me at 200mg/week although I was a bit over the reference range on both free and total test. I'll probably drop it to 160mg/week on my own. I'll be doing new labs in a month and we'll see where things are at then. He didn't seem concerned.

Re: my recent thread about gyno - I did find a small hard 'lump', but upon further examination I believe it was a bite of some sort, maybe a spider or something. Explains the bump and associated soreness. Already gone, no more soreness or anything, so I think i'm gtg and E2 probably didn't elevate much after all, or at least not to a point of causing gyno symptoms. We'll find out in 30 days.

Other than that, I just ordered DHEA and Pregnenolone, finally. Looking forward to starting those. Also ordered stinging nettles to work on dropping SHBG a bit. I have D3 at home but need to get in the habit of consistently taking it. Labs did show vitamin D slightly low, so I need it either way.

[MickeyKnox]

...Re: my recent thread about gyno - I did find a small hard 'lump', but upon further examination I believe it was a bite of some sort, maybe a spider or something..........

wut?


you were at 1261 for t levels, iirc. this was at current dosing 200/wk? looking forward to your next set of bloods.

and thanks bro

[gbrice75]

wut?


you were at 1261 for t levels, iirc. this was at current dosing 200/wk? looking forward to your next set of bloods.

and thanks bro

Yep, something like that - a bit over the high end of the range, and yes that was at 200/week. I don't think that will necessarily equate to gyno though. E2 was at like 29 if I recall.

I'm looking forward to my next labs as well! I've already decided to drop to 160mg/week and see how that goes.

[gbrice75]

Just received my pregnenolone, DHEA, and stinging nettles. Just want to make sure I have this all in order regarding dosages.

DHEA - 50mg in the am
Pregnenolone - 50mg in the am
Stinging Nettles - I have no idea. I bought Freeze-dried stinging nettles, 420mg per pill. Any recommendations on dosages... both how much, and ideal time(s) of day?

[RaginCajun]

Just received my pregnenolone, DHEA, and stinging nettles. Just want to make sure I have this all in order regarding dosages.

DHEA - 50mg in the am
Pregnenolone - 50mg in the am
Stinging Nettles - I have no idea. I bought Freeze-dried stinging nettles, 420mg per pill. Any recommendations on dosages... both how much, and ideal time(s) of day?

what the hell is that? is it for BPH/prostate health?

[MickeyKnox]

what the hell is that? is it for BPH/prostate health?

from the net..

General Uses

Stinging nettle has been used for hundreds of years to treat painful muscles and joints, eczema, arthritis, gout, and anemia. Today, many people use it to treat urinary problems during the early stages of an enlarged prostate (called benign prostatic hyperplasia or BPH), for urinary tract infections, for hay fever (allergic rhinitis), or in compresses or creams for treating joint pain, sprains and strains, tendonitis, and insect bites.

Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH)

Stinging nettle root is used widely in Europe to treat BPH. Studies in people suggest that stinging nettle, in combination with other herbs (especially saw palmetto), may be effective at relieving symptoms, such as reduced urinary flow, incomplete emptying of the bladder, post urination dripping, and the constant urge to urinate. These symptoms are caused by the enlarged prostate gland pressing on the urethra (the tube that empties urine from the bladder). Laboratory studies have shown stinging nettle to be comparable to finasteride (a medication commonly prescribed for BPH) in slowing the growth of certain prostate cells. However, unlike finasteride, the herb does not decrease prostate size. Scientists aren't sure why nettle root reduces symptoms. It may be because it contains chemicals that affect hormones (including testosterone and estrogen), or because it acts directly on prostate cells. It is important to work with a doctor to treat BPH, and to make sure you have a proper diagnosis to rule out prostate cancer.

Osteoarthritis

The leaves and stems of nettle have been used historically to treat arthritis and for sore muscles. Studies have been small and not conclusive, but they do suggest that some people find relief from joint pain by applying nettle leaf topically to the painful area. A few other studies show that taking an oral extract of stinging nettle, along with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), allowed people to reduce their NSAID dose.

Hay fever

One preliminary human study suggested that nettle capsules helped reduce sneezing and itching in people with hay fever. Researchers think that may be due to nettle's ability to reduce the amount of histamine the body produces in response to an allergen. More studies are needed to confirm nettle's antihistamine properties, however. Some doctors recommend taking a freeze dried preparation of stinging nettle well before hay fever season starts.

Other

Some preliminary animal studies indicate that nettle may lower blood sugar and blood pressure, but there is not enough evidence to say whether this is also true in humans.

Read more: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/s...#ixzz29ZemB082

[RaginCajun]

from the net..

General Uses

Stinging nettle has been used for hundreds of years to treat painful muscles and joints, eczema, arthritis, gout, and anemia. Today, many people use it to treat urinary problems during the early stages of an enlarged prostate (called benign prostatic hyperplasia or BPH), for urinary tract infections, for hay fever (allergic rhinitis), or in compresses or creams for treating joint pain, sprains and strains, tendonitis, and insect bites.

Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH)

Stinging nettle root is used widely in Europe to treat BPH. Studies in people suggest that stinging nettle, in combination with other herbs (especially saw palmetto), may be effective at relieving symptoms, such as reduced urinary flow, incomplete emptying of the bladder, post urination dripping, and the constant urge to urinate. These symptoms are caused by the enlarged prostate gland pressing on the urethra (the tube that empties urine from the bladder). Laboratory studies have shown stinging nettle to be comparable to finasteride (a medication commonly prescribed for BPH) in slowing the growth of certain prostate cells. However, unlike finasteride, the herb does not decrease prostate size. Scientists aren't sure why nettle root reduces symptoms. It may be because it contains chemicals that affect hormones (including testosterone and estrogen), or because it acts directly on prostate cells. It is important to work with a doctor to treat BPH, and to make sure you have a proper diagnosis to rule out prostate cancer.

Osteoarthritis

The leaves and stems of nettle have been used historically to treat arthritis and for sore muscles. Studies have been small and not conclusive, but they do suggest that some people find relief from joint pain by applying nettle leaf topically to the painful area. A few other studies show that taking an oral extract of stinging nettle, along with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), allowed people to reduce their NSAID dose.

Hay fever

One preliminary human study suggested that nettle capsules helped reduce sneezing and itching in people with hay fever. Researchers think that may be due to nettle's ability to reduce the amount of histamine the body produces in response to an allergen. More studies are needed to confirm nettle's antihistamine properties, however. Some doctors recommend taking a freeze dried preparation of stinging nettle well before hay fever season starts.

Other

Some preliminary animal studies indicate that nettle may lower blood sugar and blood pressure, but there is not enough evidence to say whether this is also true in humans.

Read more: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/s...#ixzz29ZemB082

thanks bud!

[gbrice75]

what the hell is that? is it for BPH/prostate health?

It may have other benefits as mentioned, but I'm strictly using it (or planning to) in conjunction with D3 in an effort to lower my SHBG and free up more test.

[gbrice75]

Bump for feedback on dosage recommendations for stinging nettles.

[kelkel]

I take 2-3 per day at 480mg each. I look at it more as a supplement to my D protocol and hope it gives an added bump, so to speak.

[MickeyKnox]

thanks bud!

You're welcome.

It may have other benefits as mentioned, but I'm strictly using it (or planning to) in conjunction with D3 in an effort to lower my SHBG and free up more test.

Quick question Brice: I don't have the actual "leafy" stinging nettle, but i do use the pharmacy Life brand and simply follow the dose on the bottle. I know, lol not the same thing. But my question is, is there a huge difference in your opinion Brice? Enough hat I should source out the physical nettle?

[gbrice75]

I take 2-3 per day at 480mg each. I look at it more as a supplement to my D protocol and hope it gives an added bump, so to speak.

Thanks Kel. I'll start with 2/day along with 6000iu D3 per day and see what next month's labs look like. Any issue with the 'type' I have - i.e. freeze-dried?

Quick question Brice: I don't have the actual "leafy" stinging nettle, but i do use the pharmacy Life brand and simply follow the dose on the bottle. I know, lol not the same thing. But my question is, is there a huge difference in your opinion Brice? Enough hat I should source out the physical nettle?

See above. I know about as much as you about it, lol. Kel might be able to answer. At this point I can't give an opinion but hopefully in a few months i'll be more informed from a personal standpoint.

[joebailey1271]

Hey GB, So are you still on the 200mg, or did u drop it to 160mg. Did u ever start the AI?

[gbrice75]

Hey GB, So are you still on the 200mg, or did u drop it to 160mg. Did u ever start the AI?

Hey all, sorry I haven't updated lately, not much to report, just doing my thing. @Joebailey - currently still on 200mg/day. The doc didn't see anything alarming about my levels being slightly above the reference range. I considered lowering it but honestly I don't see what benefit it would provide me at this point. I'll be going for labs shortly and will post up the latest results once I have them in hand.

One thing though - I inject exclusively in my quads. Once in a while I bleed; I assume I nicked a vein while pinning. I always aspirate so I know i'm not IN a vein/vessel, but when I pull out I sometimes get blood. I get worried that the juice is leaking out as well. I have an alcohol pad ready every time I pull out, and the blood looks like 'pasta sauce' (i.e. oily). Any way to avoid this? I get concerned that i'm losing most if not all of my injection from time to time.

[MickeyKnox]

Re: oil leaking out.

You could try leaving the needle in a bit longer ie 30secs.

Looking forward to seeing your new set of labs bro!

[joebailey1271]

u could use a z track method, or put a small air bubble behind the oil to push it in further.

[TennTarheel]

If you're having a lot of leakage(that sounds funny) , I would slow the injection down even more and, as already mentioned, don't pull the needle out right away.

[gbrice75]

Re: oil leaking out.

You could try leaving the needle in a bit longer ie 30secs.

Looking forward to seeing your new set of labs bro!

It never even occurred to me that would make a difference, but i'll surely give it a shot, thx bro!

u could use a z track method, or put a small air bubble behind the oil to push it in further.

Not familiar with the z track method, i'll google it. Re: leaving an air bubble - funny you mention it. My doc suggested it and I just blew it off. I couldn't see how air on top of liquid in a hole would make a difference, but obviously my doc isn't the only one who thought of this. I usually try to get every last bit of air out.

If you're having a lot of leakage(that sounds funny) , I would slow the injection down even more and, as already mentioned, don't pull the needle out right away.

Lmao, yes it does. Thanks again for the tips Tenn et al., I'll let you know how I make out.

[joebailey1271]

yea, i think they use the z track for iron type meds so they dont seep out causing a stain from the skin, anyways im sure u couldf use it for the others meds too

[joebailey1271]

Z-track injections
Any time you have to give an intramuscular (I.M.) injection,
you should use the Z-track method. Why? It’s pretty simple:
The Z-track is a better injection technique. It’s been shown to
reduce leakage of medication through subcutaneous tissue and
decrease skin lesions at the injection site. Plus, it doesn’t hurt
patients quite as much as a regular I.M. injection.
When using the Z-track method, you displace the tissue before
you insert the needle. Once the needle’s withdrawn, the tissue’s
restored to its normal position. this traps the drug inside the
muscle and prevents any leakage. The benefit: The patient gets
the full dose of medication.
How to do it
Follow these steps when administering a drug I.M. using the
Z-track method:
→ Verify the drug order on the patient’s chart.
→ Wash your hands.
→ Reconstitute the drug as needed. Check the drug’s color,
clarity, and expiration date.
→ Draw the correct amount of drug into the syringe using
aseptic technique.
→ After drawing up the dose, replace the original needle with a

[Juced_porkchop]

My first post in the HRT forum... /wave

I am in the process of making an appt. with an endo - I have a script from my PC to do so. My questions is - if prescribed HRT, is it standard practice to allow one to self administer? If not standard, is it 'allowed' or acceptable in some cases? This office isn't particularly close to my home, and I'd never be able to make it there once a week during their business hours, let along twice a week which would be my ideal dosage timing.

He may push to have you come in, but yes you should be able to request to do it at home. tell him you know what you are doing and not able to come in often due to work and the places location.

[gbrice75]

yea, i think they use the z track for iron type meds so they dont seep out causing a stain from the skin, anyways im sure u couldf use it for the others meds too

Z-track injections
Any time you have to give an intramuscular (I.M.) injection,
you should use the Z-track method. Why? It’s pretty simple:
The Z-track is a better injection technique. It’s been shown to
reduce leakage of medication through subcutaneous tissue and
decrease skin lesions at the injection site. Plus, it doesn’t hurt
patients quite as much as a regular I.M. injection.
When using the Z-track method, you displace the tissue before
you insert the needle. Once the needle’s withdrawn, the tissue’s
restored to its normal position. this traps the drug inside the
muscle and prevents any leakage. The benefit: The patient gets
the full dose of medication.
How to do it
Follow these steps when administering a drug I.M. using the
Z-track method:
→ Verify the drug order on the patient’s chart.
→ Wash your hands.
→ Reconstitute the drug as needed. Check the drug’s color,
clarity, and expiration date.
→ Draw the correct amount of drug into the syringe using
aseptic technique.
→ After drawing up the dose, replace the original needle with a

Thanks guys!!!

He may push to have you come in, but yes you should be able to request to do it at home. tell him you know what you are doing and not able to come in often due to work and the places location.

JP - thanks bro, but really? We're WAY beyond this already, lol

[MickeyKnox]

He may push to have you come in, but yes you should be able to request to do it at home. tell him you know what you are doing and not able to come in often due to work and the places location.

Welcome to page 1.

Population..you.

[TennTarheel]

Welcome to page 1.

Population..you.

Lol, priceless...

[Mrbill]

Been lurking and reading from the beginning, Great info on your journey GB.
I'm also thankful your so open on this, It makes me feel better now that I'm gonna go through the same thing.
My Blood test is tomorrow. Reading everything I can get my eyes on.

Waiting on what comes next, for all of us.

P.S. How to get what you want from your MD
by Cy Willson was a great read.

[gbrice75]

Welcome to page 1.

Population..you.

Bahahah

Been lurking and reading from the beginning, Great info on your journey GB.
I'm also thankful your so open on this, It makes me feel better now that I'm gonna go through the same thing.
My Blood test is tomorrow. Reading everything I can get my eyes on.

Waiting on what comes next, for all of us.

P.S. How to get what you want from your MD
by Cy Willson was a great read.

Thanks for the kind words man, good luck to you and be sure to keep us posted with your progress. If you haven't already started a thread, you should!

[gbrice75]

New lab results!!! Here goes:

CBC
WBC - 9.9 x10E3/uL (4.0 - 10.5)
RBC - 5.72 x10E6/uL (4.14 - 5.80)
Hemoglobin - 17.2 g/dL (12.6 - 17.7)
Hematocrit - 50.2% (37.5 - 51)

Many more results under CBC. Let me know anything else you'd like to see.

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Glucose, Serum - 91 mg/dL (65-99)
BUN - 30 mg/dL (FLAGGED AS HIGH) - (6-20)
Creatinine, Serum - 1.11 mg/dL (0.76-1.27)
BUN/Creatinine Ratio - 27 (FLAGGED AS HIGH) (8-19)

Again, many more results for Comp Metabolic Panel. Let me know what else you'd like to see, if anything

Lipid Panel
Cholesterol, Total - 151 mg/dL (100-199)
Triglycerides - 87 mg/dL (0-149)
HDL Cholesterol - 45 mg/dL (>39)
VLDL Cholesterol Cal - 17 mg/dL (5-40)
LDL Cholesterol Calc - 89 mg/dL (0-99)

Testosterone, Free and Total
Testosterone , Serum - 831 ng/dL (384-1197) DOWN FROM LAST LABS
Free Testosterone (Direct) - 28.9 pg/mL (FLAGGED AS HIGH) (8.7-25.1)

T4 and TSH
TSH - 3.600 uIU/mL (0.450-4.500)

Thyroxine (T4) Free, DIrect, S
T4, Free (Direct) - 1.01 ng/dL (4.5-12.0)

Cortisol - 4.8 ug/dL (2.3-19.4)

DHEA, Serum
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) - 90 ng/dL (31-701)

Prolactin - 17.0 ng/mL (FLAGGED AS HIGH!!!) (4.0-15.2)

Estradiol (sensitive) - 28.5 pg/mL (7.6-42.6) (VERY HAPPY WITH THIS... still not using any AI!!)

Triiodothyronine (T3) - 126 ng/dL (71-180)

Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum - 3.3 pg/mL (2.0-4.4)

SHBG, Serum - 33.9 nmol/L (16.5 - 55.9) (STILL WOULD LIKE TO BRING THIS UP)

So, what do you think? Total test is down for some reason - haven't changed dosage at all. Last labs, it was high, a bit over the reference range. Now it's lower, but free test is high - this is a good thing, right? Isn't this the goal?

E2 is still looking very good even without the use of an AI so far. Good stuff!!

The high prolactin bothers me. Why? I haven't touched any kind of 19nor ... don't understand the relation of test and prolactin. I need to bring this down... caber?

Let me know what else you see, would appreciate any and all feedback.

[--->>405<<---]

hey GB im no expert but my bun creatinine and bun is also high. usually when im eating a lot of protein. i think thats why anyways LOL.. when i come off cycling carbs it goes back down.

as far as ur DHEA i suggest u go to lefdotcom its where i get mine. got the site from GD. my dhea on the otc cvs crap was where urs is on 100mg per day. now im using theirs (micronized) at 50mg per day and its in the 400's. id also like to note this will prob increase ur free and total test as it did mine (or at least i think it is part to blame).. good to see u!

id also like to note i will prob switch all my supplements to that site! their stuff is quality and i really see how the cvs otc crap is just that! CRAP!

[gbrice75]

hey GB im no expert but my bun creatinine and bun is also high. usually when im eating a lot of protein. i think thats why anyways LOL.. when i come off cycling carbs it goes back down.

as far as ur DHEA i suggest u go to lefdotcom its where i get mine. got the site from GD. my dhea on the otc cvs crap was where urs is on 100mg per day. now im using theirs (micronized) at 50mg per day and its in the 400's. id also like to note this will prob increase ur free and total test as it did mine (or at least i think it is part to blame).. good to see u!

id also like to note i will prob switch all my supplements to that site! their stuff is quality and i really see how the cvs otc crap is just that! CRAP!

Thanks man. I don't buy my DHEA and/or Preg from CVS or the like, I get them online - the manufacturer is MRM. Both are micronized, but i'm not sure how great the quality is. I'll check out the site you and GD are going with, thx.

[--->>405<<---]

Thanks man. I don't buy my DHEA and/or Preg from CVS or the like, I get them online - the manufacturer is MRM. Both are micronized, but i'm not sure how great the quality is. I'll check out the site you and GD are going with, thx.

ur welcome! based on blood work (and prob a bunch of more complicated things i dont understand ) it would appear the stuff ur getting isnt working. dont know how much ur taking? i take 50mg per day and stay in the 400's. be sure not to get the stuff u have to suck on cuz it doesnt taste good and is a pain in the butt! i made the mistake of not reading thoroughly enuff when i refilled my last bottle! i prefer the capsules.

and i get preg also from the same site.

[gbrice75]

ur welcome! based on blood work (and prob a bunch of more complicated things i dont understand ) it would appear the stuff ur getting isnt working. dont know how much ur taking? i take 50mg per day and stay in the 400's. be sure not to get the stuff u have to suck on cuz it doesnt taste good and is a pain in the butt! i made the mistake of not reading thoroughly enuff when i refilled my last bottle! i prefer the capsules.

and i get preg also from the same site.

Same... 50mg/day each of DHEA and Preg. Yes, I'd definitely like DHEA to be higher... I actually need to refill soon so i'll definitely check out that site!

BUMP for feedback on labs! Where's Vette? GD? Mickey? HRT? Kel? Bass?

[bass]

hey GB, your SHBG is fine where its at, i wish mine was like that! your e2 is not a sensitive assay BTW, so who knows where you're really at! i am dropping the AI as mine came back at 12 range is 3-70 from Lab Corp. prolactin got to come down, thats probably attributed to high e2, i bet if sensitive assay was done it wold show higher than desired.

your TSH is high which indicated under active thyroid, mine was like that until i supplemented with iodine, basically rubbed few drops on my skin (thigh) every day and TSH came down under 2 and stayed down even with no iodine. i wouldn't worry too much about your total T, this can fluctuate from test to test, but your free is solid!

i get DHEA from LEF and its very potent, as you can see on my test i am way above normal, so cutting back on that. your cholesterol look okay, but supplement with omega 3 to improve your HDL a little. looks like its time to donate blood. how about ALT AST (liver enzymes)?

[gbrice75]

hey GB, your SHBG is fine where its at, i wish mine was like that! your e2 is not a sensitive assay BTW, so who knows where you're really at!

Man, that pisses me off. Twice now I've asked for E2 test w/ sensitive assay, and apparently haven't gotten it. I don't know what else to ask them to make sure they get this right.

i am dropping the AI as mine came back at 12 range is 3-70 from Lab Corp.

Great! IMO, the fewer drugs needed, the better!

prolactin got to come down, thats probably attributed to high e2, i bet if sensitive assay was done it wold show higher than desired.

I don't quite understand the whole sensitive assay concept. For the standard test, you're given a range. My number is somewhere right in the middle which I assume is good, or at least acceptable. I don't understand what changes with the sensitive assay... i.e. does the range change?

your TSH is high which indicated under active thyroid, mine was like that until i supplemented with iodine, basically rubbed few drops on my skin (thigh) every day and TSH came down under 2 and stayed down even with no iodine.

Iodine... really?? Sounds easy enough, but I've never heard of this. This begs the question - why do expensive drugs exist to help with hypothyroidism if simple iodine can solve the problem...??

i wouldn't worry too much about your total T, this can fluctuate from test to test, but your free is solid!

Yep, i'm actually happy the total came down quite a bit, while the free either stayed the same or increased (I have to go back a few pages and check the lab before this one).

i get DHEA from LEF and its very potent, as you can see on my test i am way above normal, so cutting back on that.

I need to order more DHEA as well as Preg today. I'll very likely be ordering from LEF.

your cholesterol look okay, but supplement with omega 3 to improve your HDL a little.

Already do, but can certainly use more...

looks like its time to donate blood.

Ugh!! Annoyance. I assume this requires a script?

how about ALT AST (liver enzymes)?

AST (SGOT) - 36 IU/L (0-40)
ALT (SGPT) - 32 IU/L (0-44)

Hope that helps. Thank you for all your feedback!!!

I'm still very concerned about the elevated prolactin... looking for an immediate remedy to bring it down. Should I get my hands on some Caber or Prami? In the meantime, where are the rest of the regulars!!? I'm gonna have to start hounding people via PM, lol