Stupid me has created a problem.. Please advise!

[m_donnelly]

My money says your E2 is off the chart. I'm floored that your doc hasn't run sex hormone panel when dumping that much test into your body.

Stay away from hCG , you'll just make it worse.

[GSXRvi6]

Dang dude I'd find a new doc, I was doing blood work every 6 weeks and starting at a LOW dose of TEST-C and slowly working up, it has taken me probably 6 months to "dial in" a dosage.

If you split your dosage go lower than you think you need and get blood work, when I split mine, it reduced the spike but caused an overall increase in my test levels. Once a week 150 gets the job done, twice a week I only inject 50.

So I was wondering about what to do about RBC, is that the trick, you start getting hot and feeling crappy, RBC goes up you just donate blood, that easy?

[2Sox]

If you split your dosage go lower than you think you need and get blood work, when I split mine, it reduced the spike but caused an overall increase in my test levels. Once a week 150 gets the job done, twice a week I only inject 50.

Can you explain how this works? Is this just you or is there a scientific explanation behind this?

[Bonaparte]

Can you explain how this works? Is this just you or is there a scientific explanation behind this?

It probably just appears that he needs less, since he used to get his bloodwork at the end of the week (at his low point).
Sure, the lack of peaks may reduce the amount that converts to E2, but that shouldn't be a huge factor.

[TestingMe]

Guys, I can only blame this doctor for not paying attention to the blood tests about the high RBC and Hematocrit...the rest, unfortunately is on me. This doctor is my cardiologist..he didn't prescribe the Test..

I started week two of 50mg 2x a week..wondering if 3x at around 30mg per would be any different or better but this is fine for now.

[TestingMe]

I know probably no one knows but wondering....I'm assuming my E2 and other hormones got really out of wack from all this (and I certainly felt it) but would they come back to there baselevels eventually by reducing the T?

[TestingMe]

So I was wondering about what to do about RBC, is that the trick, you start getting hot and feeling crappy, RBC goes up you just donate blood, that easy?

Well, I'm not one to be giving advice yet. but donating blood is a good nice thing to do anyway and might have health benefits as well besides for lowering levels.

If you decide to do it, I'd keep the doctor in the loop to know about it.

Would have been funny not to tell my cardiologist and see if he noticed...

yeah real funny.

[jay adams]

I know probably no one knows but wondering....I'm assuming my E2 and other hormones got really out of wack from all this (and I certainly felt it) but would they come back to there baselevels eventually by reducing the T?

I'm no pro by no means, but your E should settle down when your T goes down. The poster above has a good idea. You should go low " maybe even 40mg twice a week" ,wait four to six weeks then do bloodwork and work your way back up going by the results. I do 40 twice a week and my free T is too high. Everyone responds differently to therapy.

[TestingMe]

edit

[TestingMe]

I told this new girl I met about my situation and she said.."wait, your Testosterone levels were like a teenage boys? This is good for me, right?"

I said yes. Why spoil the mood..haha

I have been doing research on finding a good doctor to work with and have 3 to consider..Called and left messages with two on Friday.

I am tempted to donate another pint of blood..even though the Hemoglobin, Hematocrit and RBC were just under the max range..I checked my old tests and see they are about 10-15% on the high side for my normal...I've read that red blood cells only live 120 days and I also think this might sort out on it's own..

Still thinking about it, as while I am feeling so much better, I have a suspicion that I might feel even better if they were at the old levels...Purely guesswork but it's not a pressing concern.

I'll update as I learn more. Thanks for reading and the posts and PM's I've received!

[TestingMe]

You're 56 and you've been using test (a high HRT dose) for several years now.
You have little to no chance of properly recovering your HPTA function and no need to do so. So no, trying to run HCG then come off would be stupid, as that would leave you hypogonadal.
You're in this for life, so just lower your test dose to 30-40 mg twice weekly (you can shoot with a slin pin).
At that dose, your T and E levels should both be well within normal range and optimal for health.

If your hematocrit is still over 50, I'd ask the doc for a therapeutic phlebotomy prescription. If he won't do it for some reason, get an 18 needle and do it yourself (1 pint is a standard donation). Remember that hematocrit is the percent of your blood that is comprised of RBCs (the rest is plasma and about 1% is WBCs), and that you have about 12 pints of blood in your body. You seem intelligent, so I'll let you do the math.

Re-reading this thread...Feels like a year ago since I started it and it's not even been three weeks.

If I don't get an appointment by next week, I'm going to lower the dosage to 40mg 2x a week. Less is more as I've learned and I'd rather bring it down than too much.

[TestingMe]

Man i was in same position mine was at 63% my b/p was over 160/105 always ran 130/90 felt like shit could not stand the heat or cold went on like that for over a year as well.. What a dumb ass i was I ALMOST KILLED MYSELF.My pre trt numbers were 46% it took 5 pints to get it down to 47%. It took me about 1 month to feel right after that ordeal..Never again ...Also FYI i do 30 mgs e3ds and my numberrs are 900 at day of injection... Also i am 58 years old if that matters...

TIM R

On the last couple of donations did you still notice a difference in how you felt after? I'm curious as I am about 50 and am considering one more.

[dreadnok89]

I'm sorry man. But 400 mg a week and never bothered to check your estrogen? That doc sucks

[TestingMe]

not exactly like that...was 200mg for last year...and this was a different doctor for a different problem.. This doctor was arrogant and missed reading results for a test he ordered but the blame in this is on me 100%.

[TestingMe]

I went to a 40mg 2x a week starting yesterday.

I have an appointment with a urologist who came highly recommended with experience in TRT..I have two other good choices as well but have to wait till the 4th for the appointment.

My nipples oddly seen more sensitive since decreasing the T or is that not odd? I have no idea really.

The two donations i did brought Hematocrit down from 57 to around 51..I know that's not out of 'normal' range but normal for me was always 45..

Since donating I started feeling significantly better immediately but still don't feel right. I suspect I might feel better lowering these levels...we;ll see... I am going to try a new place today and see if they will accept me and what the levels are.

[2Sox]

I went to a 40mg 2x a week starting yesterday..It's been about 3 weeks since reducing from 200mg 1x a week to 50mg 2x a week..

I have an appointment with a urologist who came highly recommended with experience in TRT..I have two other good choices as well but have to wait till the 4th for the appointment.

My nipples oddly seen more sensitive since decreasing the T or is that not odd? I have no idea really.

The two donations i did brought Hematocrit down from 57 to around 51..I know that's not out of 'normal' range but normal for me was always 45..

Since donating I started feeling significantly better immediately but still don't feel right. I suspect I might feel better lowering these levels...we;ll see... I am going to try a new place today and see if they will accept me and what the levels are.

What question(s) do you have, exactly? Or is it just the nipple issue?

[TestingMe]

lol...@ the nipple issue...

yes, I am wondering about it but not counting on any answers from anyone here as there's just not a lot of information yet.

I did donate the third pint of blood. The Hematocrit was a little under 50 when I did it.

I got yet another stern lecture from the cardiologist's nurse practitioner who just called me to go over me informing her that I have lowered the heart medications...and I almost wish I didn't tell her..Once I get all of this sorted out and get a new MRI and EKG, hopefully I won't have much interaction with the cardiologist and I can finish tapering off the heart meds he gave me without looking at the blood test results...Incredible actually...and I am certain he will only blame me...

I'm going to call another recommended TRT doctor and see if I can get to see him but if I can't, at least I have an appointment with someone who (might) and hopefully sort out this stuff for me.

It's more of an update to this thread than asking questions..

I am wondering if it's psychosomatic that I feel a little better after the third donation in three weeks but at least I am done with that for awhile and can stop thinking about it.

[TestingMe]

Here's a question...I'm curious..

During the lecture I got from the doctor's nurse practitioner about not wanting me to donate blood she inferred that there might be something 'wrong' with my blood as the Testosterone level was too high..

Is this true?

[2Sox]

Here's a question...I'm curious..

During the lecture I got from the doctor's nurse practitioner about not wanting me to donate blood she inferred that there might be something 'wrong' with my blood as the Testosterone level was too high..

Is this true?

Anyone who has donated blood and who has filled out that long questionnaire concerning diseases and places traveled - among other things - has never seen anything asked about levels of testosterone in ones body. If you are on TRT, there is nothing "wrong" with your blood. However, they may be something wrong with your doctor's NP.

[TestingMe]

Anyone who has donated blood and who has filled out that long questionnaire concerning diseases and places traveled - among other things - has never seen anything asked about levels of testosterone in ones body. If you are on TRT, there is nothing "wrong" with your blood. However, they may be something wrong with your doctor's NP.

Thank you. That's what I thought and she was more interested about judging me and talking down to me the entire time. It was really actually exhausting and I was in a bad mood about it afterwards...I mean after all, I'm probably hormonal..lol.

[TestingMe]

Finally able to update!

I got a great recommendation for a urologist who is very up to date on TRT.

I expected the worst and already had two back up doctors in case this didn't go well.

After filling out some forms and his assistants doing the usual height weight, blood pressure tests, I was lead into his office.

I took a deep breath and told him my long story and he completely agreed that I was right in donating blood to lower the hematocrit and said he would have prescribed a phlebotomy...

He was a great listener and I carefully told him the history and how I felt like an idiot to have suffered when I didn't need to and also put my heath at risk.

He said, "Look, the past is the past and you did all the right things once you knew what to do". Wow...I felt like I was in confession!

He did a few tests, ultrasound, prostate, etc. and took blood...I loved they were able to do it right there and save me a trip to a lab.

He gave me a prescription, written at 100mg a week. He didn't care if I did it 1x or 2 x 50mg. He also didn't seem to care much if I did it IM or Subq..

I asked him about Cialis once a day and he prescribed it and I think I have a coupon for 30 or 60 Free..Gonna need a good source for generic.

My insurance won't cover either but the cost of the Test is at most $55.. And I won't have to feel like a criminal traveling with it..in my state it's a controlled substance and it's a relief to be legal!

I mentioned that I was reading on a forum and how amazed I was about how some guys are so knowledgeable about this stuff. He agreed and didn't look down on me doing my own research.

He confirmed my cardiologist was wrong (!!!) and that of course this thick blood could and does cause not only high blood pressure but can reduce the Ejection Fraction of the heart!!!

Obviously I am done with my cardiologist or he's done with me, as he called me after he read the letter I sent and he was practically yelling at me...Dr. Bigshot isn't used to be called out...My next door neighbor is a doctor who told me who to write to and what to say and how to document everything. This guy is going to get a wake up call and probably needs to take sensitivity training which I am assured they hate more than a lawsuit!

I get blood test results probably by Friday and will post them up.

What a relief to get this started the right way!

[EverettCD]

Congratulations. It all falls together when you get with a GOOD Dr. I am blessed to have a good Dr that is willing to work with me & do what improves my quality of life the most.

[Rusty11]

Great update. Sounds like you have found a great doc.

[TestingMe]

Thanks guys...I feel as though I have been brainwashed by my cardiologist who insisted that my heart is weak and that it will get stronger over time and with meds he gave me...It's really even worse than it sounds...He told me on the phone last week that I have 'psychological' issues and am a 'drug abuser'...

What?? Now I have been brutally honest with him (and in this thread) but never have I lied...and even the doctor today cut me slack in a big way and didn't chastise or blame or judge me...

I expected the worst today...When the new doctor agreed with me about how I donated blood (I was embarrassed to admit I donated 3 pints in three weeks), I felt finally 'vindicated' and that I was not irresponsible and reckless but finally doing the only thing I could do at the time to feel better.

Oh, the cardiologist called me last week he said,,,"Anything under 60 in EF and high hematocrit".

I could have had a stroke or heart attack and this self righteous pompous ass would still be denying any wrong doing...

I know you guys know the danger of bad medical advice...what a great life lesson though..I won't make this mistake again.

His secretary told me to call them a week before I run out and they will simply mail me a new script or I can pick it up...

[EverettCD]

Great to read your on the right path. I wish I could say I'm shocked about your cardiologist, just one of many Dr's that have lost sight of the real reason they became a Dr.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

[TestingMe]

I would have thought I would know better...I am moving on and learning from my mistakes but...he is gonna regret his arrogance and he finally went too far with me...he got my attention and he went way too far...I'm not losing sleep over it and it's in the past..But as a service to others, I'm going to follow through all the way up the food chain to make my experiences with this prick well known...It's worse than I am even documenting here...

Meanwhile...Cialis 5mg...umm...without going into detail...holy sh!t...

I love this place...I never would have asked the doctor about it...and got 30 free...

[2Sox]

I would have thought I would know better...I am moving on and learning from my mistakes but...he is gonna regret his arrogance and he finally went too far with me...he got my attention and he went way too far...I'm not losing sleep over it and it's in the past..But as a service to others, I'm going to follow through all the way up the food chain to make my experiences with this prick well known...It's worse than I am even documenting here...

Meanwhile...Cialis 5mg...umm...without going into detail...holy sh!t...

I love this place...I never would have asked the doctor about it...and got 30 free...

You're story and the evolution of your journey is very encouraging. I'm sure many here have benefited from reading it.

BTW, liquid cia from Ar-r is VERY reasonable; an understatement. Many good reports. I'd suggest you look into it.

[TestingMe]

Thanks 2Sox..It's been quite a long road and while I keep saying I bear the brunt of responsibility as it's not up to a cardiologist to monitor Test, it's pretty unbelievable that a urologist would say in no uncertain terms he would have prescribed phlebotomies to get the Hematocrit levels down, while a cardiologist at a very well known hospital would practically sneer at it, tell me to see a psychiatrist and take SSRIs, even after 4 blood tests.

I know this is off topic but I want to share that as I was making a follow up appointment at the Urologist, his secretary told me, "Oh, by the way, the doctor wants you to take an Endo pat test"...

I had no idea this test was even available. Again, amazed that Dr. Asshat did nothing but make me feel like something was wrong with me...and offered me nothing and even said, "I don't know if I should increase or decrease your medication"...How about looking at the freaking test results??

Anyway, I know most of you are younger but reading about this test blew my mind...Too bad James Gandolfini didn't get one.

Seen At 11: Test Detects Heart Disease Using Only Your Fingers « CBS New York

[TestingMe]

You're story and the evolution of your journey is very encouraging. I'm sure many here have benefited from reading it.

BTW, liquid cia from Ar-r is VERY reasonable; an understatement. Many good reports. I'd suggest you look into it.

My insurance so far I don't think covers the Cialis but they might when the new cardiologist speaks with them..Not sure what the cost is for prescription 30x 5mg is...Does aobut $150 a month sound right?

After all I've been through, I'd rather not inject or take anything without the doctor knowing (and approving)..but he seems very reasonable..He prescribed the Cialis with many refills...I rather save money of course and if there are generics that are the same, I'm interested...thanks for the tip and the lead.

[2Sox]

My insurance so far I don't think covers the Cialis but they might when the new cardiologist speaks with them..Not sure what the cost is for prescription 30x 5mg is...Does aobut $150 a month sound right?

After all I've been through, I'd rather not inject or take anything without the doctor knowing (and approving)..but he seems very reasonable..He prescribed the Cialis with many refills...I rather save money of course and if there are generics that are the same, I'm interested...thanks for the tip and the lead.

BTW, liquid cia is taken orally.

[TestingMe]

BTW, liquid cia is taken orally.

ah..good to know..is it the exact same as the brand name stuff? I didn't look closely and thought it was an injectable..

[TestingMe]

double post

[crazy mike]

When will the drama end? ...crazy mike

[TestingMe]

When will the drama end? ...crazy mike

Ended yesterday...

Happy camper here...in a big way..pardon the Cialis related pun...

[TestingMe]

Didn't get the blood test results but get them Monday..In the meantime, went to 5mg Cialis 2x a day yesterday...Face feels a little flushed but overall it's good...Besides the obvious benefit, my blood pressure is down a bit which is awesome as I am weening off one of the other blood pressure medications my dumbass cardiologist was prescribing (instead of paying attention to blood tests he ordered.)

I see the liquid on a site sponsors site but would prefer a pill..any leads appreciated..

Can't wait to post numbers up on Monday!

[FRDave]

Didn't get the blood test results but get them Monday..In the meantime, went to 5mg Cialis 2x a day yesterday...Face feels a little flushed but overall it's good...Besides the obvious benefit, my blood pressure is down a bit which is awesome as I am weening off one of the other blood pressure medications my dumbass cardiologist was prescribing (instead of paying attention to blood tests he ordered.)

I see the liquid on a site sponsors site but would prefer a pill..any leads appreciated..

Can't wait to post numbers up on Monday!

Safe meds 4 all - Dr Reddy

[TestingMe]

Thank you for the lead...I don't see any 5mg pills and of course can order 10's and break em in half..or 20's and cut em up...

[Rusty11]

I believe they are oblong shaped. A pill-cutter will take care of that.

[2Sox]

Safe meds 4 all - Dr Reddy

I get all my stuff from the same site but when I run out of Cialis, I'm ordering liquid Cia from Ar-r . Brand name is obscenely expensive.

[Rusty11]

You will be happy you did