Stupid me has created a problem.. Please advise!

**TestingMe** · 08-03-2013, 06:05 PM

Hey guys,

Been lurking awhile and I can use some advice...This post will be long but I'll try to keep it focused!

I will say for the record that this thread is embarrassing and what you read here I hope does help others to avoid doing some of the things I did. I am lucky I have not (hopefully) done real damage...

My doctor at the time started me on Androgel ..The plan was to always get tested and go over the numbers with her and she was cool with this and was aware that I was going to do injections.

I started at 200mgs of Test 2x a week ..This was too much for me and we adjusted it to 200mg once a week...

In November 2011, they did followup tests and my Hematocrit level was 45.9, Red Blood Count 5.22 and Hemoglobin was 15.1. All good.

I waited another month or two and started up the Test again at 200mg once a week. I went back for a routine checkup with my cardiologist in July 2012 and I was not feeling good..

I was tired, more heat sensitive than usual and generally didn't feel so good. My cardiologist was aware of the Test injections and wasn't against them but never mentioned these abnormal results and I didn't think much about them as I didn't know what they meant. I moved and wasn't seeing the other doctor who would of course caught it. Instead the cardiologist gave me heart meds to resolve the problem which now I know was only due to the Testosterone .

My numbers in July 2012 (pretty much through till last week) are Hematocrit 56, Hemoglobin 18.5, Red Blood count around 6.2.

I felt like crap and just not right and finally went back to the cardiologist (I should never have waited so long) and he did another echo test and blood work.

The heart doctor said, you have to reduce the Test, don't just stop it..He didn't say much else...Meanwhile I am feeling worse and worse..

None the less I started really researching and it didn't take long at all to find that none of what I was experiencing is unusual and is almost typical of idiots like me not closely checking in with a doctor and making adjustments to the Testosterone!

I called the doctor's office yesterday and spoke to the Nurse Practitioner who was just zero help and she told me the doctor is on vacation for two weeks. I told her I read about donating blood to reduce the Hematocrit and she said not to do that and see an Endocrinologist first...I called the two doctors she gave me, and they don't take my insurance.

I am feeling like total crap now...I am sure the new stuff I am injecting is more powerful and the emotional aspect to all this and how I am almost killing myself with this stupidity really was weighing on me..I've been feeling horrible and depressed about it constantly! I feel like I am 85 years old..always tired and out of breath...and no idea why!

So I make a command decision and start walking to the blood bank about 2 miles from my apartment...I have to stop a couple of times and finally about 1/4 mile away, i really am feeling like crap, very dehydrated and I go into a deli, down a Gatorade, powerbar and some salad...I wait 1/2 hour..I am that wiped out and off I go.

Long story short (not that short haha) I donate a pint of blood and umm..is it my imagination or do I already feel better? Yes no doubt about it..That fast I feel different..not just a little different either...Last night I felt my breaths were much deeper for the first time practically since my surgery!!

Today I woke up and it's even better.

I am still sick with the thought of how I have been mentally and physically suffering...I am really mad at the cardiologist who ordered the tests and enver told me the results...but mostly I am mad at myself and thankful I didn't have a stroke or heart attack...

Now the question is what do I do? Oh, My T level is over 1500 and has been for probably a year or more.

My estrogen levels have never been tested but from what I've read and how I've felt, it would be a safe bet that they are very high..No man boobs but heat sensitivity, less libido and all the other stuff you would think.

I spoke to a friend who suggested to to reduce the injection to 100mg once a week..and I know that might be a good idea but I am thinking maybe it would be good to be off of it for 2-3 weeks? I really just don't know...You guys for sure know better than me and that's why I am posting!

Anyway, I hope all who read this think I'm an idiot and that you don't or didn't do what I did...It sort of just fell through the cracks and I thought the cardiologist was on top of it and it's no excuse but that's my story.

**TestingMe** · 08-03-2013, 11:42 PM

crickets...I don't blame anyone who drove by the trainwreck just staring.I'll update as I find out more...thanks for reading!

**FONZY007** · 08-04-2013, 12:02 AM

Yes donating blood make me feel better the next day for sure...

Man hope everything works out, maybe you have elevated E2 levels due to the high test levels. Ask to be tested for E2 (estrogen)..

I would split your test dose into biweekly doses to help curve the E2 spike.. I feel better by doing this and other guys will chime in with better knowledge on this situation..

Also look into cialis 5mg twice a day dose wonders...for blood pressure and other perks!!

Hope everything works out!!

**TestingMe** · 08-04-2013, 12:59 AM

Thanks for the response. I feel like such an idiot, it's just hard to stop thinking about it. I figured at the very least the doctor would have just told me about the blood levels...after 3-4 tests he finally looked at them,,,,called me,,,told me to wean down the Test and then he's on vacation.But clearly I am a freaking idiot to be in this position.

I guess the good news is I didn't have a heart attack or stroke (yet) and the urine tests and the rest of my blood was all in the normal range..

I'm sure the E2 levels and adrenal levels are wacked from what I have been reading.

A friend who is knowledgeable told me to reduce to 100mg and stay once a week...

I've been obsessing obviously and am so pissed at myself and angry that I have put my heath at risk and am taking all sort of heart medications when there was no need..thanks a lot doc...all i got were lectures while he didn't even look at the blood tests that all had the same results!

I am encouraged though....if I didn't die or damage my organs too badly...I am realizing I've been functioning pretty well all though this...

**Beethoven** · 08-04-2013, 07:24 AM

Well, my Doc told me to donate right after my BW. My bp jumped way high also. Bp dropped and I immediately felt better even as the days went by. Doc changed my protocol (new Doc) to HCG to see if my body will produce up to a good level. Next thing you know, bp went down again and cut in half the other med I had to take. Bottom line, get a Doc who knows about hrt and keep up with BW.

**TestingMe** · 08-04-2013, 06:13 PM

Thanks Beethovan...I managed to get HCG today and am trying to figure out the dosages to take...I have 2 5000 kits of Corion that come with 2ml water per kit.

The advice I am getting is different and I'll make a thread after I search first.

Here's the advice I got so far:

yes mix all the water(2ml) with all the powder...using insulin syringe drawer 20 iu /500mg hcg...do that once a week for 3 weeks then do 10 iu/250mg hcg daily until finished...wait at least 3 months before resuming TRT therapy...

^^ but I don't think his math works out...ugh...

**Bonaparte** · 08-04-2013, 08:59 PM

Your buddy's advice and instructions suck. Forget about HCG for the time being. It is just going to boost test and E2.
Reduce your test dosage to 100mg weekly or 50mg twice weekly.
After you see your doc tomorrow and get labs done, we'll proceed from there.
You may need to donate a few more times to get your hematocrit safely below 50%.

**TestingMe** · 08-04-2013, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Your buddy's advice and instructions suck. Forget about HCG for the time being. It is just going to boost test and E2.
Reduce your test dosage to 100mg weekly or 50mg twice weekly.
After you see your doc tomorrow and get labs done, we'll proceed from there.
You may need to donate a few more times to get your hematocrit safely below 50%.

I did 50mg today and had been doing 100mg once a week and my levels are just off the chart.

I am getting conflicting advice...The guy today told me to take the HCG 1x a week 500iu for three weeks and then once a day (lower dose) till I run out...and then no more test for 3 months and then start again..

My doctor didn't suggest that ...he said to taper down and we would do labs..but he is not at al knowledgeable about this stuff but I think he's on the right track..I'm hoping by tapering and checking that things will start to level off.

I did do 250iu of the HCG tonight and gee..it's nice to have the 'boys' back..but if its' going to add to the problem of higher testosterone ,,,that's not gonna help.

Here's a question...will I have to stop taking Test for a period of time or just reduce it and check and keep watching it till it is in the range we want? (not sure what that will be)

I agree that I will probably need to donate blood again...I feel so much better since I did it...I might be feeling better from the HCG but not sure of course. Another question..When can I donate next..The bloodbank said to wait 56 days..but they are not aware of the reason I am doing it..

The last year has been hell and I have to work hard not to beat myself up for it...I'll give myself a one time pass due to the heart surgery and lost brain function or something!

I am eating a grapefruit a day now...drinking much more water and starting to feel almost normal..

Still unsure what I am supposed to be going for and how ..

Very much appreciate any and all feedback guys..really helpful.

**Bonaparte** · 08-05-2013, 12:07 AM

You're 56 and you've been using test (a high HRT dose) for several years now.
You have little to no chance of properly recovering your HPTA function and no need to do so. So no, trying to run HCG then come off would be stupid, as that would leave you hypogonadal.
You're in this for life, so just lower your test dose to 30-40 mg twice weekly (you can shoot with a slin pin).
At that dose, your T and E levels should both be well within normal range and optimal for health.

If your hematocrit is still over 50, I'd ask the doc for a therapeutic phlebotomy prescription. If he won't do it for some reason, get an 18 needle and do it yourself (1 pint is a standard donation). Remember that hematocrit is the percent of your blood that is comprised of RBCs (the rest is plasma and about 1% is WBCs), and that you have about 12 pints of blood in your body. You seem intelligent, so I'll let you do the math.

**TestingMe** · 08-05-2013, 12:23 AM

edit

**TestingMe** · 08-05-2013, 12:34 AM

I am sorry to keep asking questions but tomorrow i am seeing another doctor for something else but he's a great guy and will give me a script for a blood test...What should I get tested exactly..and really when? It seems that it's too soon to do the test less than a week after the first one..

I did the math and yeah, I think donating another pint would be a good idea...I did a quick read on it and it seems I probably can do another pint this week..

Then maybe do the blood test the following week or maybe two? That would give a little time on the reduced T injections to maybe start showing up on the test.

Should I get E2 levels tested? Hmm, Blood tests are good too as well, they are taking my thick blood!

**Bonaparte** · 08-05-2013, 11:20 AM

Have you had a blood test since you donated? If not, go ahead and get that for comparison.
ANd blood donation centers will only take it ~every 2 months, so I'd ask for a therapeutic phlebotomy script from this doc.

**TestingMe** · 08-05-2013, 01:26 PM

Had blood work last week that showed the Hematocrit at 56 (which it's been for a year) and the elevated Hemoglobin and Red Blood count.

My cardiologist who ordered the tests went on vacation and he said he was considering prescribing phlebotomy...

I decided I couldn't wait and I went and donated blood last Friday (3 days ago).

My guess is I will need to do it again as normal for me is 45..But I will get a prescription tonight after a visit with another doctor and ask his opinion on donation or prescription to do it.

**testytim** · 08-05-2013, 02:14 PM

Man i was in same position mine was at 63% my b/p was over 160/105 always ran 130/90 felt like shit could not stand the heat or cold went on like that for over a year as well.. What a dumb ass i was I ALMOST KILLED MYSELF.My pre trt numbers were 46% it took 5 pints to get it down to 47%. It took me about 1 month to feel right after that ordeal..Never again ...Also FYI i do 30 mgs e3ds and my numberrs are 900 at day of injection... Also i am 58 years old if that matters...

TIM R

**TestingMe** · 08-05-2013, 10:31 PM

^^

Wow! I was wondering if there was anyone in the same boat as me..

I know it's my fault and it's positively chilling how bad this thick blood is for just so many reasons...It's like a recipe to die...

Hematocrit of 63??? I can't even imagine how bad that must have felt..

How often did you donate blood? I got my prescription tonight from the doctor for blood test..I almost want to donate another pint but I am gonna check blood first even though I don't think it can drop more than 5 pts per pint anyway...and I'm not sure if Red Cross checks with other donation places to see if I recently donated...no idea how that works.

It's funny after being idiots for so long we want to make it right instantly...makes sense..lol.

What made you finally start to take care of it? Does "30 mgs e3ds" mean 30mg Test every three days? If so, that sounds pretty much what I am going to start next week.

What was your Test readings during all of this? Mine is over 1500...I reduced to 50mg 2 x a week from 200mg (1x a week).

I feel so much better after donating only one pint of blood...I am looking back on the last year (maybe 16 months) and just shaking my head how bad I've been feeling.

**TestingMe** · 08-06-2013, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Have you had a blood test since you donated? If not, go ahead and get that for comparison.
ANd blood donation centers will only take it ~every 2 months, so I'd ask for a therapeutic phlebotomy script from this doc.

Since I had a blood test less than a week ago and I used the formula you posted to determine levels, I knew I needed to donate another pint..So I went and did it today...

I got the script for new work and will go tomorrow and I bet it's under 50...normal for me is 45..It dropped from Friday from about 56 to 52..

Sunday I changed from 100mg (1x a week) to 50mg 2x.

Feeling much better even after today's donation...Thank you god.

**laser** · 08-07-2013, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by TestingMe

I am sorry to keep asking questions but tomorrow i am seeing another doctor for something else but he's a great guy and will give me a script for a blood test...What should I get tested exactly..and really when? It seems that it's too soon to do the test less than a week after the first one..

I did the math and yeah, I think donating another pint would be a good idea...I did a quick read on it and it seems I probably can do another pint this week..

Then maybe do the blood test the following week or maybe two? That would give a little time on the reduced T injections to maybe start showing up on the test.

Should I get E2 levels tested? Hmm, Blood tests are good too as well, they are taking my thick blood!

Others will def learn from this....I can see where this could easily happen...Doctors do not always check into this stuff, and will let a lot slip through the cracks. I seen quite a few doctors, especially female over look the male hormones. becareful with the walking around in the heat until you get yourself feeling better.

**TestingMe** · 08-07-2013, 11:53 AM

I hope others do learn from this as it's so easily avoided and bad on so many levels.

The second donation made me feel even better and noticeable in the hours after and again when I woke up.

I'm gradually tapering off one of the prescribed *** and soon will be off of it.

Going to get blood tested today and glad to get rid of a bit more...Feeling amazingly different (better)..nipples are not tender anymore (that sounds just so bizarre..lol)..and my energy is 50% or more improved!

Heat sensitivity is better, really so many things are feeling better..One weird effect I noticed and coudn't explain was this uncomfortable feeling when tying my shoes or doing certain stretches...

I am gonna start light aerobics today and making sure to drink lots of water.

Anyone know how long it will take for accurate T levels to appear in bw? not even testing it yet as it's too soon I think.

**2Sox** · 08-07-2013, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by TestingMe

Thanks Beethovan...I managed to get HCG today and am trying to figure out the dosages to take...I have 2 5000 kits of Corion that come with 2ml water per kit.

The advice I am getting is different and I'll make a thread after I search first.

Here's the advice I got so far:

yes mix all the water(2ml) with all the powder...using insulin syringe drawer 20 iu /500mg hcg...do that once a week for 3 weeks then do 10 iu/250mg hcg daily until finished...wait at least 3 months before resuming TRT therapy...

^^ but I don't think his math works out...ugh...

If you feel good on hCG, I'd advise you continue it. I'm 65 and I pin 250iu hCG EOD. I love it. In my experience, it doesn't raise Test levels appreciably. Some on the forum pin 100iu ED. Serum E2 levels are affected very little by hCG.

Also, pinning low doses of Test EOD and sub Q, has been discussed in other threads. You may want to consider this because E2 levels don't spike severely this way.

**TestingMe** · 08-07-2013, 03:50 PM

Well if anyone is still reading this mess...I got the results from last weeks numbers before donating and all the test results of the last almost two years....Insane the cardiologist simply ignored the high Hemoglobin and H numbers...It was 57 last week! Finally that's when he called me!!

I told the nurse who took the blood for the test the story and she knows the doctor and was hating him.. I asked her to take some extra blood to discard and she removed another 50ml...figure it can't hurt!

I want to get my Hcrit back to my baseline 45 and the other numbers in line too...If it's above 50, I'm going to donate yet another pint next week.

Still reeling from all this and the what if's and the fact I am on two major medz that I probably shouldn't even be on...can't wait till this is all sorted out...very soon, I will be getting a new doctor(s)

**TestingMe** · 08-07-2013, 04:12 PM

Just did the math and see that my Hcrit level decreased by about 4.5% (from 57.1) after the first donation..that means tomorrows numbers should come in around 47-48%...should be interesting how the other numbers come in too...

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 02:14 PM

Well got the numbers from the bld test...This is after two pints of bld donations..Friday and Tuesday.

Hematocrit - from 57.1 last test to 49.4
Hemoglobin - from 19.1 last test to 16.9
Red Bld Count - from 6.21 last test to 5.41

These are within normal but still a bit high from traditional baseline numbers. One more pint will bring it where it should be naturally but the emergency is over and as importantly, I am feeling 100% better!

My doc is on vacation but I went over the protocol to reduce the Coreg, that is a nightmare to be on..

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 02:20 PM

Started light work outs finally and am riding my bike every day...also increased fluid intake quite a bit..Question is how long before T levels show up on tests..

Taking 50mg 2x a week.

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

If you feel good on hCG , I'd advise you continue it. I'm 65 and I pin 250iu hCG EOD. I love it. In my experience, it doesn't raise Test levels appreciably. Some on the forum pin 100iu ED. Serum E2 levels are affected very little by hCG.

Also, pinning low doses of Test EOD and sub Q, has been discussed in other threads. You may want to consider this because E2 levels don't spike severely this way.

Just saw this post...Thank you.

Things are finally settling down and I am feeling much better...I still have to get T levels and others checked again and start fresh with a careful plan.

The small injection of HCG did seem to help and fast...I do want to keep on it but i think it would be smart to let things settle down first and get some sort of baseline.

But it's good info..and I think to some extent I will be on HCG as well as test forever.

**2Sox** · 08-08-2013, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by TestingMe

The small injection of HCG did seem to help and fast...I do want to keep on it but i think it would be smart to let things settle down first and get some sort of baseline.

If hCG helped, why not continue to take it? What exactly are you referring to when you say it "would be smart to let things settle down and get some sort of baseline"? Can you explain? It is not clear what you want to see or where your reluctance is coming from.

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

If hCG helped, why not continue to take it? What exactly are you referring to when you say it "would be smart to let things settle down and get some sort of baseline"? Can you explain? It is not clear what you want to see or where your reluctance is coming from.

Good question and I would be interested to hear from others on the wisdom of taking (or not taking) it.

All I do know is that due to unadjusted T injections or not adjusted enough my last reading was over 1500..I've addressed the other readings that are finally back in the normal range but still higher than what my traditional baseline numbers are. I do want to donate one more pint of bld as I know that will get me back to my normal.

I am guessing as I look and find a doctor to go over all of this with, it might be better to have a simple protocol that I can share and get feedback on.

No doctor told me to stop taking the T, just to reduce it to get it down within levels (still not sure where I want it to be but want to stay on the reduced dose till it levels and then finally get it all checked.

Clearly my e2 levels and other levels went wacky with the prolonged (should i say idiotic again?) too high T ..

I am open to suggestions as the more I know the better..

I'm all ears!

**2Sox** · 08-08-2013, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by TestingMe

Good question and I would be interested to hear from others on the wisdom of taking (or not taking) it.

All I do know is that due to unadjusted T injections or not adjusted enough my last reading was over 1500..I've addressed the other readings that are finally back in the normal range but still higher than what my traditional baseline numbers are. I do want to donate one more pint of bld as I know that will get me back to my normal.

I am guessing as I look and find a doctor to go over all of this with, it might be better to have a simple protocol that I can share and get feedback on.

No doctor told me to stop taking the T, just to reduce it to get it down within levels (still not sure where I want it to be but want to stay on the reduced dose till it levels and then finally get it all checked.

Clearly my e2 levels and other levels went wacky with the prolonged (should i say idiotic again?) too high T ..

I am open to suggestions as the more I know the better..

I'm all ears!

Read post #19 above. After you do, and do some homework, ask some specific questions.

The doctor I see for TRT - although he is far from perfect, has a good philosophy: He treats patients and their symptoms not blood test results. Most often "what works for you" is what I hear from many on this forum. What do you think of this approach?

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 04:38 PM

Yes, what you do sounds good to me..what is your T levl? I am in the research phase that I should have been at before I started...I actually was being monitored but moved and had all the above surgery.

I;m excited to be getting off the bp stuff! I have that under control and with guidance..have to be careful but am also looking into daily cials but not doing that till this is sorted out...

I am wondering if it's complicating things by the HCG since I don't yet have a doctor on board and am winding it down to get T level under this >1500 level..

**Bonaparte** · 08-08-2013, 06:21 PM

I'd leave the HCG out of it until you have your T levels stabilized and have a clean bill of health.
It definitely spikes E2, but it's mostly just another thing that you don't need to be worrying about right now.

And your T levels should fully reflect the change in dosage after 3 weeks.

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

I'd leave the HCG out of it until you have your T levels stabilized and have a clean bill of health.
It definitely spikes E2, but it's mostly just another thing that you don't need to be worrying about right now.

And your T levels should fully reflect the change in dosage after 3 weeks.

Thanks Bonaparte, I was waiting for you to weigh in. I agree on a gut level..to let things settle down and have things stable when I see a new doctor..I don't want to have to explain all of this and start on that foot either..hard enough to find a good doctor..I don't want to start on such a deficit.

I'm going to donate one more pint of blood if I can find a place next week and be done with that and back to all normal levels for me...

I go to 100mg 50mg per 2x a week, starting Sunday and after another week or so of that, I can see my cardiologist to go over all the heart stuff and get tested again for Test, etc..then find new doctor!

**testytim** · 08-08-2013, 08:59 PM

Hi testingme I am the guy who had 63% hematocrit..And yes i do 30mgs every 3 days of test.. Ya what a nightmare deal i felt like i was going to die...Went to 4 drs not one said shit...The last dr did b/w the lab tech called dr to say he had a patent that was going to have a stroke... The lab tech saved my ASS. My test #s were at 900 before injection.... Free was at about 19 a little low i think I was thinking of going up to about 35 mgs a day to see how i feel.. Went on HGH 2 months ago. i feel so frking good i cant believe it i haven't felt this good in 20 years.. Thats one drug that should be sold across the counter...

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 10:46 PM

Hey TT,

I was thinking of your post and how it took you 5 pints to get to normal...With two I am in normal range (barely) and one more pint to get to my normal..and I got a lecture from the doctor's nurse and while she means well, I had almost a premonition last Friday that I BETTER donate blood...this was right after the doctor called to suggest I reduce the T..gee thanks...Then his nurse called and said not to donate and if my levels dropped to fast they would have to test for some sort of adrenal cancer...yes she said that...I don't know how you did it with a 63 level!

I am pretty sure that my abuse of the T and HGH for a few months pushed me over the edge and necessitated the surgery to fix my leaking valve..I am certain of that..it was weak anyway and needed eventually to be fixed and well...I'm just the luckiest guy in the world it was able to be fixed and I didn't destroy it yet again..serious shit here and I hope some members benefit from reading this.

HGH...maybe someday...first things first.

**TestingMe** · 08-08-2013, 10:54 PM

TestyTim, how did you donate that much blood? Did you get a script? I just went to two places and well...lied..but they were happy to get this iron rich blood...how long a period did it take..2 a week?

**testytim** · 08-09-2013, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by TestingMe

TestyTim, how did you donate that much blood? Did you get a script? I just went to two places and well...lied..but they were happy to get this iron rich blood...how long a period did it take..2 a week?

Ya DR wrote a script..Went to local hospital and got it done.. i waited 2 weeks in between draws..And yes it sucked i felt so bad.. every draw i felt good for about 2 days then back to the crapper. My pre trt numbers were 46%...It came down to ever pint drawn it dropped 3% appox....

**TestingMe** · 08-09-2013, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by testytim

Ya DR wrote a script..Went to local hospital and got it done.. i waited 2 weeks in between draws..And yes it sucked i felt so bad.. every draw i felt good for about 2 days then back to the crapper. My pre trt numbers were 46%...It came down to ever pint drawn it dropped 3% appox....

I couldn't wait for the doctor to wake up and write me a script. You would think a cardiologist of all doctors treating a patient complaining of what is so ridiculously obvious symptoms of High levels of red blood cells and Hematocrit, would have thought if it...but no, he was only interested in calling me with this stern voice that I have to lower the Test injections and he's going on vacation.

The mind boggles.

I donated one pint last Friday and another this Tuesday. You waited two weeks between draws? That's surprising (but not really..considering the doctors) I read that for treatment of a disease that causes this (that we don't have..thankfully) 2 pints per week can be prescribed.

But since I did one Friday and one Tuesday, I wanted to wait for test results and not screw things up further..

Felt significantly better each time and I am looking forward to one more as whether it's my imagination or not, I want the levels back to where they always were and I am barely under the maximum..and most importantly, while I am feeling somewhat better, I have a ways to go.

I think I am feeling the reduction of 50% of the Test..but I have no idea really. Still feeling a bit weird but between all of this stuff and the reduction of one of the bp meds, I have no idea what exactly to pin it on.

Just glad I'm on the path..

**TestingMe** · 08-09-2013, 05:59 PM

Can anyone shed any light if I might be feeling a crash by decreasing from 200mg for so long to 100mg? I do know the T levels have tested >1500 for a long time (ugh)

I'm going to the 50mg 2x a week protocol figuring it might help smooth it out.

Lastly, I'd appreciate an opinion if my approach makes sense..What I am doing is to stay at this reduced dosage for 3-4 weeks and in the meantime start to find the right doctor?

Would I be better of moving faster and getting other tests as I do this reduced dosage or are they also maybe out of wack from the long time on 200mg a week?

**testytim** · 08-09-2013, 06:35 PM

The reason for two weeks i understand that if you go to much to fast you will end up anemic.. Let your body adjust then recheck everything i have learned being on trt is go slow let adjust.. If not you can go all over the road...And your not sure why...The easiest way being on trt is to not make it complicated... This is a marathon not a sprint...I see DR Mark Gordon. He hammers that home.. Everything you add start low and take it from there...He tries to mimic you natural production...Go by how you feel not the numbers...Hope this helps you TIM R

**TestingMe** · 08-09-2013, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by testytim

The reason for two weeks i understand that if you go to much to fast you will end up anemic.. Let your body adjust then recheck everything i have learned being on trt is go slow let adjust.. If not you can go all over the road...And your not sure why...The easiest way being on trt is to not make it complicated... This is a marathon not a sprint...I see DR Mark Gordon. He hammers that home.. Everything you add start low and take it from there...He tries to mimic you natural production...Go by how you feel not the numbers...Hope this helps you TIM R

That's what everyone says! lol..

But what I don't get is how can we be worried about anemia when we have just the opposite of that problem? From all that I've read if we had polychemia, we would be donating up to 2 pints a week..

What I think I've found out, not that it matters that much anymore, is that the dangers of donating too often but not in our cases is anemia..The white blood cells are replaced fast...I did read that there can be issues with losing too much Folic acid but that's all I found..

It seems and I don't have any idea if this is true but the Red blood cells have a life of 120 days...Now, if I am taking 1/2 the amount of T, it would be a good guess to assume the red blood counts won't go as high as fast...and maybe this would all naturally sort out..

Appreciate the posts...I agree and am keeping it simple now...but I do have some lingering anxiety just learning how insane this has been...

I also learned how important hydration is..and am drinking two liters of water a day and eating a grapefruit..which supposedly lowers hematocrit as well.

**testytim** · 08-10-2013, 03:16 PM

Just 1 more FYI when my rbc was sky high my piss was crazey yellow like i was severely dehydrated witch i was not ANOTHER THING DR HAD NO ANSWER FOR....Had to find out myself...I personally have given up on DRs on this trt deal and self medicate i know sounds crazy but thats were i am on trt... I walk out of the dr office honestly knowing more then him on subject not trying to be a smart ass that how i feel....I have thrown myself into this thing and feel i have to educate myself on trt to take care of myself...

**MRNJ1992** · 08-11-2013, 08:25 AM

Definitely split your T shots to bi weekly. 1500 T level is too high especially if you have a heart issue. The rule of thumb is less is more. My dose is 40 mgs twice a week. When my dose was higher, my libido was shot, held more water and felt like shit. Yea my strength was great but at 48 who cares about benching 400 anymore. Its more about feeling good and staying healthy. Good luck. A bunch of smart guys here. Take their advice.