No More Insurance for TRT

[xcraider37]

Humana announces today they will no longer cover TRT, this includes doctors visits, labs, medications, etc. Blue Cross Blue Shield soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before all follow suit. TRT is not considered a medical necessity, it is elective. While only elective for those that qualify, it's still considered elective.

How can the insurance companies police the lab work, if I go in and get standard BW done, to check Cholesterol, thyroid and such that generally would include a hormone check? This would kill the biggest money maker of all the GELS. The test cyp is cheap enough that I can pay for my four month supply out of pocket. Insurance never covered my HCG and ADEX as you know is extremely cheap, I don't see this being a big deal for most of us.

[V-ROID]

Anyone filing any claim forms with Aflac to reimburse TRT charges? I have had Aflac for at least a few years, never made a claim, but every time the rep comes to visit and update plans he always tells me to file any and all claims. I would think Aflac would cover quite a bit. Will find out soon enough and report back. Will dump them for sure if they don't.

[Ryanmcd]

How can the insurance companies police the lab work, if I go in and get standard BW done, to check Cholesterol, thyroid and such that generally would include a hormone check? This would kill the biggest money maker of all the GELS. The test cyp is cheap enough that I can pay for my four month supply out of pocket. Insurance never covered my HCG and ADEX as you know is extremely cheap, I don't see this being a big deal for most of us.

Read my last post The code now that's used at least for me is 257.2 I am sure you can use a different code and get it covered and if not just run it past insurance and let them adjust it anyway and pay out of pocket. My last blood work set was around $1100 after insurance adjusted it down I think it was $60, after insurance I paid about 30$ that was everything IGF1 test and anything else I could think of, 8 vile.

[2Sox]

TRT costs are not that high even w/o insurance ONCE you get it dialed in. 4 10ML a year @ 50$ each, HCG 30-40$ a month that's full price @ 5k unit, should last about 2 months for most, AI if needed and bloodwork, also insurance will still adjust the blood work cost just will not cover it, so you E2 test may list @ 120$ but after it's adjusted it's about 12$.

Also is this just on code 257.2? I am sure you can run blood work under other codes and get it covered.

Really good points! Remember a GoodRx coupon still gets you Test Cyp for $42/10mL vial and hCG runs about $23/5000iu vial overseas. AIs are also available and very reasonable from places like the sponsor. And what you mentioned about BW codes is something good to think about, if things turn bad.

[Metalject]

I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't started sooner and while we can argue that it's stupid it has to happen. Thanks to the new health care legislation, insurance companies absolutely have to start cutting some things out where they can. If not, they're done. In my opinion, this is 100% related to the new health care law.

[kelkel]

In my opinion, this is 100% related to the new health care law.

Yep..

[2Sox]

I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't started sooner and while we can argue that it's stupid it has to happen. Thanks to the new health care legislation, insurance companies absolutely have to start cutting some things out where they can. If not, they're done. In my opinion, this is 100% related to the new health care law.

I completely disagree. And I'm surprised you guys are falling for this. With ACA, the insurance companies have 45 million new customers! Crying poverty is complete horse shit. The bylaws of every corporation states that the sole purpose of corporate existence is PROFIT - and they will get it any way they can. Your conclusion is completely unscientific. If ACA wasn't around, what excuse would people have and who would they blame? The truth is staring us in the face. Profit economics, pure and simple.

Turn of Rush Limbaugh and do some independent research.

[2Sox]

Humana announces today they will no longer cover TRT, this includes doctors visits, labs, medications, etc. Blue Cross Blue Shield soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before all follow suit. TRT is not considered a medical necessity, it is elective. While only elective for those that qualify, it's still considered elective.

I'd still like to see the press release you learned of this from.

[Metalject]

I completely disagree. And I'm surprised you guys are falling for this. With ACA, the insurance companies have 45 million new customers! Crying poverty is complete horse shit. The bylaws of every corporation states that the sole purpose of corporate existence is PROFIT - and they will get it any way they can. Your conclusion is completely unscientific. If ACA wasn't around, what excuse would people have and who would they blame? The truth is staring us in the face. Profit economics, pure and simple.

Turn of Rush Limbaugh and do some independent research.

45million new customers? How do you figure? Only 5million have signed up and less than 20% have paid a premium. But regardless of the number, preexisting conditions are covered, which means more money out, which means something's going to get cut somewhere.

[bullshark99]

My 20+ plus years in the insurance industry agree wholeheartedly with Metalject on this. Common sense dictates that if there are no longer any pre-x conditions, everything covered from the get go, either premiums substantially rise or something gets cut out!
Last I looked it was 5 mil, not 45 mil and out of those I would love to see how many of them were previously uninsurable??
Thank god for the likes of the Rush Limboughs like him or not but someone needs to inform people of "common sense" so they don't fall for the non-sense this President and all his side kicks ( Nancy Pelosi ect) advocate.
Anyone that is upset that TRT is no longer covered better "buckle up" because this is just the beginning ? Next, there gonna make us turn all our trophies in...LOL

[GFA]

Insurance is the reason scripts are so expensive to begin eith. Think androgel will be $350 a bottle after insurance stops paying for it? Nope. It will drop down to what people pay for otc stuff now if they want to continue to sell it.

Look at zertex or claritin as examples.

Anyway with goodrx, $42 for 10ml/200mg ml is only $2 a week for testosterone . I spend more multivitamins.

[2Sox]

My 20+ plus years in the insurance industry agree wholeheartedly with Metalject on this. Common sense dictates that if there are no longer any pre-x conditions, everything covered from the get go, either premiums substantially rise or something gets cut out!
Last I looked it was 5 mil, not 45 mil and out of those I would love to see how many of them were previously uninsurable??
Thank god for the likes of the Rush Limboughs like him or not but someone needs to inform people of "common sense" so they don't fall for the non-sense this President and all his side kicks ( Nancy Pelosi ect) advocate.
Anyone that is upset that TRT is no longer covered better "buckle up" because this is just the beginning ? Next, there gonna make us turn all our trophies in...LOL

Twenty years or twenty days in the insurance industry - facts are facts. The ACA is law. All uninsured Americans are required to be covered. Five people to date or five million to date. It doesn't matter. There will be 45 million uninsured Americans on the rolls of insurance companies in due course. Fact. And the profits for corporations will be rolling in - are rolling in now. Here are a few recent representative articles that illustrates the FACT that insurance companies will be rolling in $$$ big time - even covering the dreaded pre-existing conditions of hundreds of thousands of people (who could be people close to you - maybe a relative - who deserve to be covered):

Obamacare could be worth more than $90 billion to the insurance industry

Despite Glitches, Obamacare Profit Windfall To Insurers Well Underway - Forbes

And here is an article about Michael Moore who CRITICIZED the ACA for giving insurance companies TOO MUCH profits! Yes, Michael Moore critical of ACA!

Michael Moore: Obamacare sends over $100 billion annually to insurers | PunditFact

Metalject, Bullshark,
Opinions are fine but you ought to clearly state them as such. As it stands, your comments are based on faulty logic, come from previous biases, and can be misleading. This is not useful to anyone. When this forum has been most useful it has been when it dealt in facts. When conclusions based upon individual experience have been discussed, these too have been extremely useful - and often life saving. When there has been conjecture, it has been a waste of time. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Now if you want to continue with your line of reasoning (which is incredibly insensitive) and which I might add has no factual basis as the above articles make eminently clear, maybe we should go back to the insurance system we had just replaced. No insurance for pre-existing conditions so that you could pay a little less for your TRT treatment. What's the difference? Just let a few people die for our comfort. Something to be really proud of. It's disgraceful that a thought like this could even enter a person's mind. Disgusting, actually. Oh. My opinion.

[bullshark99]

I didn't realize you were appointed in charge of this forum 2sox, clearly you have too much time on your hands. Oh and your right, if someone put it in print, it must be true, please...

[2Sox]

As interesting as this thread has been, LowT has still not responded to my request that he provide documentation of the statements in his original post of this morning. If there are no facts to substantiate his claims - and I recognize that these facts might exist - this whole thread has been essentially devoted to a rumor.

Not to be tiresome, but IMO if we make a statement, we ought to have something to back it up - merely because it's the respectful thing to do.

[2Sox]

I didn't realize you were appointed in charge of this forum 2sox, clearly you have too much time on your hands. Oh and your right, if someone put it in print, it must be true, please...

Isn't it interesting that when a person has nothing to defend their position with, they resort to personal attacks?

Anyway, I respect the right to your opinion.

[kelkel]

Easy guys. Please.

[2Sox]

Easy guys. Please.

Everything's good, Kel.

[Rusty11]

I'd still like to see the press release you learned of this from.

I searched and searched.....nothing that I could find.
IF this is true and blue cross decides to stop covering my Testim, I'll just get my doc to prescribe test cyp-much cheaper out of pocket. He's already offered it, but my gel has kept me good for 3+ years.

[Metalject]

Twenty years or twenty days in the insurance industry - facts are facts. The ACA is law. All uninsured Americans are required to be covered. Five people to date or five million to date. It doesn't matter. There will be 45 million uninsured Americans on the rolls of insurance companies in due course. Fact. And the profits for corporations will be rolling in - are rolling in now. Here are a few recent representative articles that illustrates the FACT that insurance companies will be rolling in $$$ big time - even covering the dreaded pre-existing conditions of hundreds of thousands of people (who could be people close to you - maybe a relative - who deserve to be covered):

Obamacare could be worth more than $90 billion to the insurance industry

Despite Glitches, Obamacare Profit Windfall To Insurers Well Underway - Forbes

And here is an article about Michael Moore who CRITICIZED the ACA for giving insurance companies TOO MUCH profits! Yes, Michael Moore critical of ACA!

Michael Moore: Obamacare sends over $100 billion annually to insurers | PunditFact

Metalject, Bullshark,
Opinions are fine but you ought to clearly state them as such. As it stands, your comments are based on faulty logic, come from previous biases, and can be misleading. This is not useful to anyone. When this forum has been most useful it has been when it dealt in facts. When conclusions based upon individual experience have been discussed, these too have been extremely useful - and often life saving. When there has been conjecture, it has been a waste of time. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Now if you want to continue with your line of reasoning (which is incredibly insensitive) and which I might add has no factual basis as the above articles make eminently clear, maybe we should go back to the insurance system we had just replaced. No insurance for pre-existing conditions so that you could pay a little less for your TRT treatment. What's the difference? Just let a few people die for our comfort. Something to be really proud of. It's disgraceful that a thought like this could even enter a person's mind. Disgusting, actually. Oh. My opinion.

Facts are important, I wouldn't argue against that, but there are still a lot of missing facts on both sides of the argument. For example, 45million covered, that's not a fact until it happens. As of now, the individual mandate is not in effect. This we can all agree on as fact. As for opinion, I will be surprised if 45million who weren't covered are, because that would mean they'd have to force those 45million to signup and pay. Force of that nature works in many places around the world, but the American mindset is different. But again, that is an opinion and time will tell.

As far as my opinions on the topic, I don't listen to Rush or any of the talking heads. My opinion is based simply on what I see and how I perceive it. Again, in my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems in America, people get their opinions from the talking heads they like. It's become a team type thing far more so than let's all look at what is and judge for ourselves. And once again, in my opinion, I find it apathetic. I'm not accusing you (2sox) of apathy....that comment was more of a general comment.

[hawk14dl]

I just need to know, is low t going to continue being 199 a month? Won't affect me if so

[Beethoven]

This is not about insurance. If you are mandated to cover EVERYONE regardless of pre existing or not, or group or not, it's NOT insurance, it's forced socialized medicine. THAT IMHO IS the end game. Fact, this legislation was NOT bi partisan. Fact, there have only been about 5 million people sign up. Fact, they keep postponing the individual mandate because no one is signing up de spite all the star studded psa's. Fact, no one else's insurance premiums have dropped at all, much less the $2500 that was promised. (Unless you're subsidized). Fact, almost every politician involved in this fiasco is either out of office or distancing him or herself from this legislation. A previous post said it well, if you are overweight and have ANY medical issues arise from that, you will be FORCED to lose weight or pay extra. If your medical condition does not have a strong lobby or voting block, they are not going to care. Think not? Abortion and birth control are being FORCED on the Catholic entities that offer insurance. That is fact. Birth control and abortion have a more far reaching lobby than trt. It is what it is. HIV patients will be afforded trt where hypo gonadal males aren't? Think about that lobby for a second. I hate politics........

[2Sox]

Facts are important, I wouldn't argue against that, but there are still a lot of missing facts on both sides of the argument. For example, 45million covered, that's not a fact until it happens. As of now, the individual mandate is not in effect. This we can all agree on as fact. As for opinion, I will be surprised if 45million who weren't covered are, because that would mean they'd have to force those 45million to signup and pay. Force of that nature works in many places around the world, but the American mindset is different. But again, that is an opinion and time will tell.

As far as my opinions on the topic, I don't listen to Rush or any of the talking heads. My opinion is based simply on what I see and how I perceive it. Again, in my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems in America, people get their opinions from the talking heads they like. It's become a team type thing far more so than let's all look at what is and judge for ourselves. And once again, in my opinion, I find it apathetic. I'm not accusing you (2sox) of apathy....that comment was more of a general comment.

Thanks for the clarification. You are completely right; we all ought to judge for ourselves and use our critical minds to arrive at our conclusions. Often, it's not easy finding what's true. I've studied propaganda and it's insidious. It always works best on lazy, uninquisitive minds that find it easier to believe the slogans and talking points than to dig for the facts to expose what's true. (I'd imagine most of us have made this mistake sometime in our lives.) Joseph Goebbels was a master of it. I paraphrase his motto, "Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth." I've also seen that these lies can appeal to an evil, dark side of us that is waiting for the encouragement to come out. History bears this out. It happened in Germany in the 1930's, it happened in Rwanda, in Darfur and it can happen anywhere. We've got to be on our toes because it's all to easy to fall for it.

As a side note; Bullshark is right. I do have a great deal of time on my hands; I'm recently retired. Most often it has been a blessing. It's given me more time to spend at the gym and in the outdoors. It's also given me the time to catch up on my reading. I also now have the luxury of learning a great deal more online and on this forum and writing these forum posts - probably too lengthy, at times - and doing the research for them. And I can now devote more time to my seasonal sideline business which keeps me very busy all summer.

[sfgiantsfan55]

and just how can one purchase stock for lowtestosterone.com ?

[38onTRT]

Time to start stocking up on some Testosterone Undecanoate! Nebido for those that are in the UK where it is legal and sold.. The US, well its black market available..

It will also create an even bigger black market for everything.

[kelkel]

As a side note; Bullshark is right. I do have a great deal of time on my hands; I'm recently retired. Most often it has been a blessing. It's given me more time to spend at the gym and in the outdoors. It's also given me the time to catch up on my reading. I also now have the luxury of learning a great deal more online and on this forum and writing these forum posts - probably too lengthy, at times - and doing the research for them. And I can now devote more time to my seasonal sideline business which keeps me very busy all summer.

What you do here is appreciated.

Time to start stocking up on some Testosterone Undecanoate! Nebido for those that are in the UK where it is legal and sold.. The US, well its black market available..

It's now available under the name "Aveed" in the U.S. Problem is they reduced the dosage by one-fourth which will ultimately result in many unhappy people.....imho.

[APIs]

Now if you want to continue with your line of reasoning (which is incredibly insensitive) and which I might add has no factual basis as the above articles make eminently clear, maybe we should go back to the insurance system we had just replaced. No insurance for pre-existing conditions so that you could pay a little less for your TRT treatment. What's the difference? Just let a few people die for our comfort. Something to be really proud of. It's disgraceful that a thought like this could even enter a person's mind. Disgusting, actually. Oh. My opinion.

Nothing against 2Sox, but proponents of the new system always seem to forget one thing. Who's actually paying for a large part of this new coverage? As a small business owner, I can tell you without question it's not the general public. I am along with all the other small business entities in this country. I dont need to quote an article or provide some link either, as I actually write the checks. My business health coverage increased by 24% upon renewal this past December. If that weren't enough, the plan we originally had was then dropped and replaced with one that is one-tier lower in quality, most co-pays were doubled and our yearly deductible was increased by $300 for each individual on the plan. Not to mention, out-patient surgical services now have a $1,000.00 deductible where none existed before. Now is this progressive and/or fair? I guess that depends on how far left someone leans. I'm not going to argue on pre-existing conditions etc., but I'll always argue that no-one has the right to take our hard-earned money to benefit someone down the street who more than likely has made bad decisions in his or her life.

[2Sox]

Nothing against 2Sox, but proponents of the new system always seem to forget one thing. Who's actually paying for a large part of this new coverage? As a small business owner, I can tell you without question it's not the general public. I am along with all the other small business entities in this country. I dont need to quote an article or provide some link either, as I actually write the checks. My business health coverage increased by 24% upon renewal this past December. If that weren't enough, the plan we originally had was then dropped and replaced with one that is one-tier lower in quality, most co-pays were doubled and our yearly deductible was increased by $300 for each individual on the plan. Not to mention, out-patient surgical services now have a $1,000.00 deductible where none existed before. Now is this progressive and/or fair? I guess that depends on how far left someone leans. I'm not going to argue on pre-existing conditions etc., but I'll always argue that no-one has the right to take our hard-earned money to benefit someone down the street who more than likely has made bad decisions in his or her life.

API,

I'm with you on most of what you say. But let's fix this by having the insurance companies pick up the tab, not guys like you or people who can't even afford to pay their rents because of poverty wages. All we do is mandate less profits for them. (Ha! Maybe your grandchildren might get to see this.) Bottom line is now everyone has insurance and the vast majority of people are better off. My view is that we should have a universal single payer system in place just like the VA. But that's for another time... Maybe sooner that we may think.

Something else. The champions of profit economics want to pit people against each other, so that we lose sight of the main thing. Is the profit motive and power of the corporations that wield too much power. Until there is no more of "profits over people" we've got to keep our eye on the ball.

[Low Testosterone]

I'd still like to see the press release you learned of this from.

This information came directly from Humana in a letter sent out to all physicians.

[APIs]

API,

I'm with you on most of what you say. But let's fix this by having the insurance companies pick up the tab, not guys like you or people who can't even afford to pay their rents because of poverty wages. All we do is mandate less profits for them. (Ha! Maybe your grandchildren might get to see this.) Bottom line is now everyone has insurance and the vast majority of people are better off. My view is that we should have a universal single payer system in place just like the VA. But that's for another time... Maybe sooner that we may think.

Something else. The champions of profit economics want to pit people against each other, so that we lose sight of the main thing. Is the profit motive and power of the corporations that wield too much power. Until there is no more of "profits over people" we've got to keep our eye on the ball.

Sorry, but your basic logic here is both skewed & self-serving. In a free market economy business should never be overly responsible to pay for any government sponsored social program. This core value of having small-government is what built this country economically. Argue all you want, but the concept of being rewarded for one's hard work without being overly taxed are what built this great country after WWII. It's also very naive & short sighted to say the Insurance industry should pay for this considering the lobbying power they have in Washington. That was never going to happen anyway. Regardless of the social agenda, in the end, no-one has the right to tell me or any business owner what we should do with our profits. As I recently heard, it seems that ultra-liberals are always willing to give you the shirt off another man's back...

[dreadnok89]

I'm a dope. Explain to me what does obamacare have to do with private insurance companies? This slime balls have been trying for years to get out of this. Now why is it that a transexual can get testosterone easier than a male that needs the hormone

[Metalject]

I'm a dope. Explain to me what does obamacare have to do with private insurance companies? This slime balls have been trying for years to get out of this. Now why is it that a transexual can get testosterone easier than a male that needs the hormone

Simple, because society has become so backassward that such women are considered to be trapped in a condition that demands medical attention. They have a condition that they did not choose (being trapped in a woman's body), that is the mindset. As for a man with low test, suck it up. Why do you need more testosterone ? Why are you so barbaric? That's the mindset.

[2Sox]

Sorry, but your basic logic here is both skewed & self-serving. In a free market economy business should never be overly responsible to pay for any government sponsored social program. This core value of having small-government is what built this country economically. Argue all you want, but the concept of being rewarded for one's hard work without being overly taxed are what built this great country after WWII. It's also very naive & short sighted to say the Insurance industry should pay for this considering the lobbying power they have in Washington. That was never going to happen anyway. Regardless of the social agenda, in the end, no-one has the right to tell me or any business owner what we should do with our profits. As I recently heard, it seems that ultra-liberals are always willing to give you the shirt off another man's back...

If you go back and look at what I said, you'll see we're both on the same page. And I heartily disagree with you in what I bolded above. What I wrote was very carefully thought out. There is nothing at all skewed or self serving in what I said and there is no evidence at all for your statement. What I basically said is for people to start thinking about things from another perspective. We have to change our mindset and think about what is fair - what is good will for PEOPLE. "What does a person deserve by being a person?" - the late educator, Eli Siegel asked. That's what the framers did in both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. If you read the texts of both, this comes through very clearly. Nothing in either document makes reference to corporations or profits. And actually, yes, "no taxation without representation" was one of the rallying cries for the Declaratioin of Independence - way before WW2.

And I would think a businessman like yourself would be the last person to rationalize away change for the better because of the power of lobbyists. Generations from now, our ancestors will look back on this time in history and see lobbyists and profit economics for what they are - an obscenity. Most of us already have a sense of this now. So never say never, API.

These beautiful words of the Constitution made clear the basis on which our country was founded:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Any uninsured person will inevitably find it impossible to obtain any of these. With ACA - even with all its flaws - the government did its job - fulfilled its responsibility. And it could do even better.

Corporations by their very nature are bad for people because - as I indicated in a previous post - the sole purpose of their existence is profit. (It is their sole function and they can do nothing else because it is written in their bylaws.) And that includes profit over the welfare of individuals. Yes, I know, they provide jobs. But if slavery was legal, they'd be overjoyed. In fact, the very nature of profit economics is a step away from slavery: Wring out as much as you can from each worker and pay as little as you can. I don't want to be insensitive but I'm going to say this to make a strong point: The only difference between that and slavery is workers don't get whipped because there are laws, and slaves don't get paid. If you worked for a living, you've been there. We've got to change our mindset from what's profitable to what's ethical.

I completely agree; no one has the right to tell you, a small business owner, what to do with his profits. But I have no sympathy for the insurance and pharmaceutical corporations and the obscene profits they make at the expense of human lives. What I suggest is a very simple remedy. Instead of giving X dividends to their shareholders, mandate that they be reduced a little, the sum of which would be put into the healthcare pot. Who will suffer? Just a few billionaires. Who will benefit? Millions. People we know and don't know. Lives will be better. Lives will be saved.

Remember that any dream can become a reality if we work hard enough for it.

[Metalject]

If you go back and look at what I said, you'll see we're both on the same page. And I heartily disagree with you in what I bolded above. What I wrote was very carefully thought out. There is nothing at all skewed or self serving in what I said and there is no evidence at all for your statement. What I basically said is for people to start thinking about things from another perspective. We have to change our mindset and think about what is fair - what is good will for PEOPLE. "What does a person deserve by being a person?" - the late educator, Eli Siegel asked. That's what the framers did in both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. If you read the texts of both, this comes through very clearly. Nothing in either document makes reference to corporations or profits. And actually, yes, "no taxation without representation" was one of the rallying cries for the Declaratioin of Independence - way before WW2.

And I would think a businessman like yourself would be the last person to rationalize away change for the better because of the power of lobbyists. Generations from now, our ancestors will look back on this time in history and see lobbyists and profit economics for what they are - an obscenity. Most of us already have a sense of this now. So never say never, API.

These beautiful words of the Constitution made clear the basis on which our country was founded:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Any uninsured person will inevitably find it impossible to obtain any of these. With ACA - even with all its flaws - the government did its job - fulfilled its responsibility. And it could do even better.

Corporations by their very nature are bad for people because - as I indicated in a previous post - the sole purpose of their existence is profit. (It is their sole function and they can do nothing else because it is written in their bylaws.) And that includes profit over the welfare of individuals. Yes, I know, they provide jobs. But if slavery was legal, they'd be overjoyed. In fact, the very nature of profit economics is a step away from slavery: Wring out as much as you can from each worker and pay as little as you can. I don't want to be insensitive but I'm going to say this to make a strong point: The only difference between that and slavery is workers don't get whipped because there are laws, and slaves don't get paid. If you worked for a living, you've been there. We've got to change our mindset from what's profitable to what's ethical.

I completely agree; no one has the right to tell you, a small business owner, what to do with his profits. But I have no sympathy for the insurance and pharmaceutical corporations and the obscene profits they make at the expense of human lives. What I suggest is a very simple remedy. Instead of giving X dividends to their shareholders, mandate that they be reduced a little, the sum of which would be put into the healthcare pot. Who will suffer? Just a few billionaires. Who will benefit? Millions. People we know and don't know. Lives will be better. Lives will be saved.

Remember that any dream can become a reality if we work hard enough for it.

Above in red, that is the split in the U.S. and is why it's impossible for people to agree. Your comment states the government has a job to provide something, a service, a right or whatever else it can be labeled. Whereas the other half of the country would argue government has no right to do any of that. That is the uniqueness of the U.S. unlike other countries, government wasn't set up to provide, it was merely setup so that people could ensure they were free to provide for themselves. Life, you have the right to be born and to maintain that life. Liberty, you have the right to live as you see fit with the life you were given. Happiness, you have the right to use your liberty to be happy so as long as it does not infringe on the liberty or life of another. When it comes to the basis of America, that's all there is. Simple, yes and anything that complicates it beyond that is creating something new.

[2Sox]

Above in red, that is the split in the U.S. and is why it's impossible for people to agree. Your comment states the government has a job to provide something, a service, a right or whatever else it can be labeled. Whereas the other half of the country would argue government has no right to do any of that. That is the uniqueness of the U.S. unlike other countries, government wasn't set up to provide, it was merely setup so that people could ensure they were free to provide for themselves. Life, you have the right to be born and to maintain that life. Liberty, you have the right to live as you see fit with the life you were given. Happiness, you have the right to use your liberty to be happy so as long as it does not infringe on the liberty or life of another. When it comes to the basis of America, that's all there is. Simple, yes and anything that complicates it beyond that is creating something new.

I'm afraid that factually and substantively, you're absolutely incorrect, as anyone who studies the constitution would point out. But of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I would suggest you look at what I wrote one more time. If you take a closer look, I believe it would help you think out of the box. And look at both documents. You'll be surprised how many times the word "provide" is used.

[2Sox]

This information came directly from Humana in a letter sent out to all physicians.

Possible to attach a pdf?

[38onTRT]

It is what it is, we are all in this together.. Ranting and raving about it here changes nothing. If Testosterone prices skyrocket, then either pay the high prices, get it on the black market or learn to make it yourself. A script form the Doc costs $0.

Why all the arguing and trying to prove yourself right? Come on fellas, lets learn something and/ or teach people something in lieu of arguing..

[APIs]

Why all the arguing and trying to prove yourself right? Come on fellas, lets learn something and/ or teach people something in lieu of arguing..

x2. He's right guys. We should all stick to the following topic(s); TRT, reversing testicular shrinkage & keeping our d*cks hard (arguably most important)...

[2Sox]

x2. stick to the following topic(s); TRT, reversing testicular shrinkage & keeping our d*cks hard (arguably most important)...

Great to focus on.

[2Sox]

Why all the arguing and trying to prove yourself right? Come on fellas, lets learn something and/ or teach people something in lieu of arguing..

38,
I really don't see this as arguing at all. I think it would be very unfortunate to interpret every disagreement here as an argument. I love this forum and although we may not all agree on everything, I respect every person who sincerely contributes his thoughts and ideas here for the benefit of the members. I feel it's so important to encourage every exchange of views that we can on varying subjects. And I think the recent discussion/debate accomplished some of that. I know I learned a lot. I hope others learned from me.

[Beethoven]

x2. He's right guys. We should all stick to the following topic(s); TRT, reversing testicular shrinkage & keeping our d*cks hard (arguably most important)...

I agree with both metalject and API. This discussion sometimes has to take place because under the guise of fairness and what not, WE the common joe who WORK for our living and don't live of the public dime pay for. Yes pay for. Profit is NOT an evil thing. Does anyone here work for free? The biggest people in this country that always put down profits happen to be among the richest. Go figure. The reason THIS country is or at least was the world superpower was not socialist principles. It was our open and free economy. Workers are not slaves and are always free to quit their job and move on. A business owner does jot OWE the public anything. That is why they pay taxes, and in turn their employees pay taxes, the goods they purchase in doing business is taxed, the product they produce is taxed. Everyone is free to do what they want with their own money. The problem as it relates to trt is that we are not an important voting block because, as you see here, we are made up of different sorts. Yet we wonder why a transgender person can get test and we don't? Voting block and lobby. This type of socialist behavior is akin to this: your insurance now doesn't cover your trt, just go knock on your neighbors door and get him to pay for it. This is a joke, 45 million people are NOT covered by the ACA. Hence the small enrollment numbers and all the waivers given out. Not to mention the MANDATE not being enforced. If we want to fix this thing, we as a group have to unite among our common ground, trt, and recognize that this isn't going to get any better by itself. These are not petty differences, it's our health and Washington doesn't give a damn.