No More Insurance for TRT

[Beethoven]

Notices just now went out so website may not be fully updated on what is or is not covered. I have a call into my cousin who owns an insurance company and they are researching further.

Bc

Thanks for the updates.

[Beethoven]

As they should be. But I think it's too much of a political football. Lyle Alzado ruined it for everyone.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ on point

[Metalject]

As they should be. But I think it's too much of a political football. Lyle Alzado ruined it for everyone.

Everyone from the Alzado era will soon be gone from politics. And people like Dr. Gary Wadler, the biggest pusher of steroid legislation in the world, the only credibility he holds anymore is with the same law makers who are at the end of their road. The point - things will certainly change and there will be opportunity for those changes. In the past no opportunity has existed. I'm not saying they'll ever be 100% OTC like Tylenol but there are good chances for good changes if they're taken advantage of. The biggest problem though is the steroid using community itself, they're scared.

[kelkel]

One can hope. But overturning an existing law is excruciatingly hard to accomplish. New members of congress or not, I still think it's the "political football" no one will want to touch. Seriously hope I'm wrong though. They either did not care or did not realize the overall impact criminalizing AAS would have on the black market, and the impact on the health and safety of AAS users nationwide.

[Beethoven]

One can hope. But overturning an existing law is excruciatingly hard to accomplish. New members of congress or not, I still think it's the "political football" no one will want to touch. Seriously hope I'm wrong though. They either did not care or did not realize the overall impact criminalizing AAS would have on the black market, and the impact on the health and safety of AAS users nationwide.

I agree, without a lobby, and all the negative pub the athletes give AAS, I doubt it. One cane hope though.

[system admin]

My theory is that testosterone treatment will continue to prove itself as a life changing medicine that not only improves quality of life but more importantly prevents serious health issues. As the lawsuits continue, the research and facts about these drugs will be forced into the public eye and in my opinion, these lawsuits will be the start of educational process for our nation and our demonization of "steroids ." The same thing happened with certain birth controls and many other medicines. The drugs are introduced to the market, the skeptics shout on the side line and talk about how these drugs are killing and hurting people (please take killing the unborn out of this example) and most are shouting with ZERO knowledge or research on the subject. Once the lawsuits start coming, the courts and people get to hear and see the facts from both sides and that is the start of how the publics opinion will change.

Once the medical community and the drug companies see these lawsuits about death, stroke, and heart attack END with a losing decision (in favor of the manufacturers of testosterone)... We will start to see a windfall of acceptance and more educated people entering the discussion and testosterone will no longer be the devil.

After that happens, I believe that testosterone will grow to be a widely accepted medicine (much more so than it already is)

After that, men involved in all types of sports will argue their need for testosterone treatment for many of the reasons and benefits that have been proven and will continue to be proven.

After that, testosterone will start to become much more accepted for athletes as a way for these men to heal faster, prevent disease, and help to prevent injury... Not to mention help the older athletes achieve higher levels of testosterone due to deficiency.

Once that happens, there will be enough time to have passed to where the older generation who grew hearing of the lies and horrors of testosterone and "steroids" will be moved on and the new generation will be running things with a different idea about these drugs. At that time, i think the discussion will be brought up to revisit the dangers of these drugs.

Lets face it.... many more people are talking about wanting steroids IN sports due to all of the things they help with. (Healing, prevention, recovery, strength, and lets not forget the improvement of athletic performance) How many people are going to be as excited about sports when 10 years go by and no one can best the records of the past? I will tell you one thing... Testing for these drugs and substances are going to improve to an unbeatable level and there will be no more excuses. Soon, there will be another huge steroid scandal and the "People" will call for tougher testing. Once that happens, the "people" are going to be losing a lot of talented athletes on the playing fields and those same "people" are going to be replaced by a younger generation who is tired of watching games where records are no longer broken (or hardly ever broken)

My point is, there is a progression of acceptance in this country and we as a nation want nothing more than to WANT MORE. We want better bats, balls, equipement, fields, training, supplements...... We want more hits, faster athletes, longer homeruns.... and most of us (especially our younger generations) DONT care about the "integrity of the game" when it comes to putting on a more exciting show for us.

Anyway, in my opinion there is a domino effect in play here and once the facts and proven research comes out about the benefits vs. risks come out with TESTOSTERONE, that may very well be the thing that changes our nations uneducated views on this subject and should heal the black eye that Lyle Alzato and others have given to these drugs.

One final point: Bodybuilding, like it or not is going down in popularity and the monsters of today are becoming freaks and funny looking to most. The massive amounts of drugs these guys use these days are becoming NOT COOL and "stupid". As the new generations continue to want to improve their bodies and look like elite levels athletes or models and NOT like monsters, a lot of the negative spotlight will be removed and there will be less and less people who are killing themselves with mass loads of gear and related drugs.

I think our culture will soon evolve to respect these drugs and not demonize them. Will all "steroids" be accepted, NO. I think it will start with drugs like "Testosterone," "Anavar ," and other more mild steroids.

Just my thought

Bc

[kelkel]

Well said BC. Good to see you around....

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Guys chill There's no need to fear an election year is near ? Obama Care is not a law ? It was not passed by house or Senate ! It is a presidential Proclimation and will be repealed by the next man in office There is hope for the real USA, not perverted by an non- citizen dick tater !

[Beethoven]

I surely hope so. I love the sport of bodybuilding and I too believe these athletes are too big. Impressive physiques as it may be but just too freakishly big. I like women's bodybuilding but back in the Rachel Mclish era. As the women got bigger and bigger I got less interested. Now for the law suits, I believe it will be proven that it's mostly un educated Drs and supervision that will bear the brunt of it and not testosterone . How many times have we seen that here?
Buzzardmarinepumper, I hope so. The problem is that the other side has fallen in love with bigger government also, they just think they can do it better. Bottom line is they both want control of the money.

[kelkel]

I like women's bodybuilding but back in the Rachel Mclish era.

Absolutely. Rachel, Cory Everson, Anja Langer, etc...

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

And by the way, we have a very successful single payer system in the U.S., administered by the government and from my knowledge it works great. I have many friends who are Vets and doctors who I have known who worked there, and they all love it - the V.A.

2sox I respect you but you are way off track here ! You offer herasay from friends as a statement and I promise you it is not a fact ! The VA offers basic medical care fore basic 1st aid and anything that requires real specialist are the Dr. who can't get a real job in the real world . I know you are a liberal and drink the Obama Kol-Aid but for Christ sake ? What real qualified Dr would work for the VA . . . because he has a heart for vets . . . .I think not and even if that is the case !! I know from hands on treatment aything that requires real spelized medicine is out sourced and sent to a real hospital !

Oh and try to receive pain management from the VA ? NOT !
Try to get TRT from the VA ? NOT !
Try to go to an appointment and get there on time and spend less that 7 hours there at the VA ? NOT !
As a vet you can live in the low rent district and be close to the VA or drive 100 + miles round trip for basic treatment ?
Is it really free when they put a banana on your ear and say you are well ?

So on that statement I am qualified to call BULL $HIT !

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Oh something I ran ino this year when all my meds trippled in price and some were not covered . Your Dr. can write a Formuliary request that your health requires the medication and my Insurance compqny covered it ( a pain med ) But I will hit my do nut hole about July or August and my meds will cost $500.00+ a month thanks to Obama - Care ! I fail to see the savings for the low income citizens since I am on fixed income and 100% disabled ? Just waiting on a new president that is a citizen to repeal all the DA presidential Proclimations !

[Beethoven]

Buzzardmarinepumper I know what you mean. I was in the service and you are 100% correct. Many of the physicians in charge were young officers and, even though some do it for the love of country and I very much respect them for it, the level of education is not the same as in private practice and very few "specialists". You would think with all the money the government has it might be different but it is not. The government can not run anything compared to the private sector. Why? Most of them are theorists who have never run a real business in the real world. Career academics or politicians with no hands on experience using one of the original sins, "envy" as their weapon. I can assure you anyone thinks that the VA is such a great entity has never had to deal with them. And btw, thanks for your service brother...... Anyone who is in favor of raising the minimum wage should consider taking care of the ones who truly deserve it. Our American Warriors.

[CobraMustangSVT]

Awww crap man.....this is not what I wanted to read.

I'm currently in the process of transferring all of my care to the VA. I've been going to private doctors for the past 11 years and thought hte VA would be great since I can get everything done at one place instead of needing one specialist for my back, a urologist, a regular doctor and a TRT doctor.

The docs there told me that they can do it all and they can do it better than the outside docs since they are all in one integrated unit.

Crap...........

[CobraMustangSVT]

2sox I respect you but you are way off track here ! You offer herasay from friends as a statement and I promise you it is not a fact ! The VA offers basic medical care fore basic 1st aid and anything that requires real specialist are the Dr. who can't get a real job in the real world . I know you are a liberal and drink the Obama Kol-Aid but for Christ sake ? What real qualified Dr would work for the VA . . . because he has a heart for vets . . . .I think not and even if that is the case !! I know from hands on treatment aything that requires real spelized medicine is out sourced and sent to a real hospital !

Oh and try to receive pain management from the VA ? NOT !
Try to get TRT from the VA ? NOT !
Try to go to an appointment and get there on time and spend less that 7 hours there at the VA ? NOT !
As a vet you can live in the low rent district and be close to the VA or drive 100 + miles round trip for basic treatment ?
Is it really free when they put a banana on your ear and say you are well ?

So on that statement I am qualified to call BULL $HIT !

Dammit, dammit, dammit......

I stopped TRT for the past 3 weeks because the VA wanted me to show them a low number before they can treat me.

[Metalject]

My theory is that testosterone treatment will continue to prove itself as a life changing medicine that not only improves quality of life but more importantly prevents serious health issues. As the lawsuits continue, the research and facts about these drugs will be forced into the public eye and in my opinion, these lawsuits will be the start of educational process for our nation and our demonization of "steroids ." The same thing happened with certain birth controls and many other medicines. The drugs are introduced to the market, the skeptics shout on the side line and talk about how these drugs are killing and hurting people (please take killing the unborn out of this example) and most are shouting with ZERO knowledge or research on the subject. Once the lawsuits start coming, the courts and people get to hear and see the facts from both sides and that is the start of how the publics opinion will change.

Once the medical community and the drug companies see these lawsuits about death, stroke, and heart attack END with a losing decision (in favor of the manufacturers of testosterone)... We will start to see a windfall of acceptance and more educated people entering the discussion and testosterone will no longer be the devil.

After that happens, I believe that testosterone will grow to be a widely accepted medicine (much more so than it already is)

After that, men involved in all types of sports will argue their need for testosterone treatment for many of the reasons and benefits that have been proven and will continue to be proven.

After that, testosterone will start to become much more accepted for athletes as a way for these men to heal faster, prevent disease, and help to prevent injury... Not to mention help the older athletes achieve higher levels of testosterone due to deficiency.

Once that happens, there will be enough time to have passed to where the older generation who grew hearing of the lies and horrors of testosterone and "steroids" will be moved on and the new generation will be running things with a different idea about these drugs. At that time, i think the discussion will be brought up to revisit the dangers of these drugs.

Lets face it.... many more people are talking about wanting steroids IN sports due to all of the things they help with. (Healing, prevention, recovery, strength, and lets not forget the improvement of athletic performance) How many people are going to be as excited about sports when 10 years go by and no one can best the records of the past? I will tell you one thing... Testing for these drugs and substances are going to improve to an unbeatable level and there will be no more excuses. Soon, there will be another huge steroid scandal and the "People" will call for tougher testing. Once that happens, the "people" are going to be losing a lot of talented athletes on the playing fields and those same "people" are going to be replaced by a younger generation who is tired of watching games where records are no longer broken (or hardly ever broken)

My point is, there is a progression of acceptance in this country and we as a nation want nothing more than to WANT MORE. We want better bats, balls, equipement, fields, training, supplements...... We want more hits, faster athletes, longer homeruns.... and most of us (especially our younger generations) DONT care about the "integrity of the game" when it comes to putting on a more exciting show for us.

Anyway, in my opinion there is a domino effect in play here and once the facts and proven research comes out about the benefits vs. risks come out with TESTOSTERONE, that may very well be the thing that changes our nations uneducated views on this subject and should heal the black eye that Lyle Alzato and others have given to these drugs.

One final point: Bodybuilding, like it or not is going down in popularity and the monsters of today are becoming freaks and funny looking to most. The massive amounts of drugs these guys use these days are becoming NOT COOL and "stupid". As the new generations continue to want to improve their bodies and look like elite levels athletes or models and NOT like monsters, a lot of the negative spotlight will be removed and there will be less and less people who are killing themselves with mass loads of gear and related drugs.

I think our culture will soon evolve to respect these drugs and not demonize them. Will all "steroids" be accepted, NO. I think it will start with drugs like "Testosterone," "Anavar ," and other more mild steroids.

Just my thought

Bc

Steroid legality or at least a loosening of the noose - the argument has always been there's not enough research to risk a change in the laws, but that's simply not true. There is close to 100yrs of data and even new data is often ignored "because it's the right thing to do." Look at pot and how the laws are changing, a lot of this has to do with lobbying. Phillip Morris has fought to keep pot illegal for years out of fear of it taking away from cigarette sales, but some years back they changed their tune and have bought the TM Marlboro Greens...looks just like their cigarette packages except green with a pot leaf on the front. All the people that want pot legalized, that helps but they have money behind them now with groups like Phillip Morris. Someone in the pharmacy world will have to see the same thing for the laws to really ever change.

Sports - people don't care if it's their team. Remember when Bonds was on the verge of breaking the home run record? Everyone hated him, except everyone in San Francisco, they cheered non-stop. But the sports argument is a small one and one the government uses to support their protecting the children and false morality claims. But only around 10% of all steroid users use gear for the purpose of sport and most of those are not professional. And the children argument, worst argument in the world but I'll let that one go for now.

Bodybuilding - the problem isn't the amount of drugs. Bodybuilders were at their height of disgusting in the 1990's and that's when they had the largest crowd following. The problem with bodybuilding now is it wants to be hip and cool, it tries to present itself in a way that it's not and it's a turnoff. It makes it fake, stupid and honestly idiotic. They try to present these guys as rock star athletes now and make the events sound like you're missing the biggest concert that ever happened with wild crazy after parties that you'd see at a porn shoot. But it's anything but that - portray a false image and you look like an idiot. Bodybuilding will never be mainstream like the NFL but they'd have more of a following like they once did if they portrayed themselves as they actually are. And as far as steroids go, the NFL is right up their with the same levels of use - they just don't diet down to gross levels and take all the diuretics, that's the only difference.

Most important - steroid users, unlike the pot crowd, they're scared. Steroid users hide behind fake names on message boards, admit to no one of their use and when it comes down to it, live as if they're ashamed of their use. Pot users, the exact opposite. When steroid users grow some balls (as big as atrophied balls can grow, lol), along with the pharmacy issue above, then things will change. Yes, more and more positive research helps but it will take all three things. But we could say most steroid users are idiotic meatheads, but again, that's just another false assumption. There was a huge study/survey of steroid users done several years ago, I can dig it up if anyone's interested, that described the population of steroid users by stats. The avg. income of a steroid user in the U.S. is $20,000+ a year more than the national average. 70 something % work in white collar jobs, the rate of college degrees was almost 98%, the rate of steroid users that were in a fraternity in college was less than 5%. The number of steroid users with criminal records was less than 1% and the average age was mid-30's and up. (tons of stats in this thing but that's all I can remember off the top of my head) The point - steroid users in the U.S. do not represent the crowd of people we're led to believe, at least not the majority.

[JimR]

Obama Care will cost me almost $800 per month. That's not counting deductible and copays. That's one policy for a single 35yr old man. That is insane!!!

That doesn't sound right. I signed up and took no deductions and mine is 300 an month. Thats in Florida.

[JimR]

I fully realize I am talking to the hate Obama crowd but I know personally several people who have benefited from Obamacare and none of them are losers or looking for a handout. My Republican boss is quite happy with his daughters plan and my friend Lyndy who has a brain tumor couldn't get coverage till now. I guess she is a loser taking advantage of the folks who pay more.

[system admin]

All I have to say without arguing is..... you all just wait and see how the chips fall. You cant give more without taking more and soon the system will fall apart. With that being said, I want everyone in america to live the life I do. I want all of the lazy people in the world to continue being lazy and I want all of the people in the world who have no drive or no will to reach for the stars to own a star. I want people to have no reason to get up in the morning because everything will be provided for them. I want all races accept for whites to have special rights, UNTIL whites become the odd man out. I want all children to have $700 ipods and I want those same children to never know what its like to WANT FOR ANYTHING..... I want kids to not know how to interact on a person basis and to only communicate with a text message. I want healthcare for all and I want NO LINES while I wait my turn

How about we all stop and dream of the most amazing dream.... and then lets make that dream AMERICA.

Maybe I am a bit grumpy, but I am at the point of "I dont give a sh!t any more" and all I care about is ME and my family. WHAT a WONDERFUL world that would be.

I have a lot more to add to this but I am honestly just too tired of saying the same things day after day. I dont know about you guys, but I am ALMOST out of give a sh!t

Bc - "doubled up on my HCG "

[Beethoven]

I fully realize I am talking to the hate Obama crowd but I know personally several people who have benefited from Obamacare and none of them are losers or looking for a handout. My Republican boss is quite happy with his daughters plan and my friend Lyndy who has a brain tumor couldn't get coverage till now. I guess she is a loser taking advantage of the folks who pay more.

Welcome aboard JimR. This is not a hate Obama crowd exclusively, there are plenty of idiots in government to go around on both sides. I would say this is a freedom, people who fend for themselves and provide for themselves. As you said it the problem lies right there. A Republican is happy that his daughter is paying for a plan that will surely pay out more than it collects. That is no longer insurance and he, like many other Republicans are ok with big government. Since that plan will operate in a short fall, who pays the difference? We do. When the insurance companies stop making profits, they will go out of business. When the government takes over and a shortfall continues, one of a few things will surely happen. Taxes will go up, at least for those of us who pay, services will be rationed, how that happens you can probably guess, and the government will want to control behavior. If you smoke you will HAVE to quit or either pay more or not get treated. If you're fat and hypertensive, better go on a diet and lose weight or else. Diabetic, well you can imagine. It's economics because again Jim, you don't work for free, neither does your republican boss but expect everyone in the insurance, medical and pharmaceutical companies to work for free, or at a discount. Yet the same people want to impose a higher minimum wage, drive up costs for places like Walmart but still want to shop there for the super low prices. Freedom, I am against Obama or anyone else who wants to infringe on my freedoms and my money, which I don't have a lot of and work very hard for. Give that raise to our troops who work, die and suffer all kinds of injuries protecting our freedom. Think about this, the government is always talking about social security going bankrupt by such a date, why don't we ever hear welfare is going to run out of money? Why is that? You don't run your household at a constant and high deficit, why is it okay for the government to do so? We need to wake up.

[bullshark99]

Hey BC, don't forget we should get rid of the honor roll in school because poor little Johnny"s feelings might be hurt because he only got C's. Let's stop handing out trophys because once again, poor little Johnny might not be as good as the other kids. It amazes me how some live in this make believe bubble. What is the point in life if nobody needs to do anything but yet they are provided with anything they so choose because in their opinion, something is not fair? Show me the incentive to work hard, be educated, have dedication and desire, hard work ethic , trying to better yourself?? Doesn't exist anymore with this President, if it were solely up to him we would all be holding hands singing Koomby ya. It will all come tumbling down and the bleeding heart liberals will have someone to blame.

[Beethoven]

Steroid legality or at least a loosening of the noose - the argument has always been there's not enough research to risk a change in the laws, but that's simply not true. There is close to 100yrs of data and even new data is often ignored "because it's the right thing to do." Look at pot and how the laws are changing, a lot of this has to do with lobbying. Phillip Morris has fought to keep pot illegal for years out of fear of it taking away from cigarette sales, but some years back they changed their tune and have bought the TM Marlboro Greens...looks just like their cigarette packages except green with a pot leaf on the front. All the people that want pot legalized, that helps but they have money behind them now with groups like Phillip Morris. Someone in the pharmacy world will have to see the same thing for the laws to really ever change.

Sports - people don't care if it's their team. Remember when Bonds was on the verge of breaking the home run record? Everyone hated him, except everyone in San Francisco, they cheered non-stop. But the sports argument is a small one and one the government uses to support their protecting the children and false morality claims. But only around 10% of all steroid users use gear for the purpose of sport and most of those are not professional. And the children argument, worst argument in the world but I'll let that one go for now.

Bodybuilding - the problem isn't the amount of drugs. Bodybuilders were at their height of disgusting in the 1990's and that's when they had the largest crowd following. The problem with bodybuilding now is it wants to be hip and cool, it tries to present itself in a way that it's not and it's a turnoff. It makes it fake, stupid and honestly idiotic. They try to present these guys as rock star athletes now and make the events sound like you're missing the biggest concert that ever happened with wild crazy after parties that you'd see at a porn shoot. But it's anything but that - portray a false image and you look like an idiot. Bodybuilding will never be mainstream like the NFL but they'd have more of a following like they once did if they portrayed themselves as they actually are. And as far as steroids go, the NFL is right up their with the same levels of use - they just don't diet down to gross levels and take all the diuretics, that's the only difference.

Most important - steroid users, unlike the pot crowd, they're scared. Steroid users hide behind fake names on message boards, admit to no one of their use and when it comes down to it, live as if they're ashamed of their use. Pot users, the exact opposite. When steroid users grow some balls (as big as atrophied balls can grow, lol), along with the pharmacy issue above, then things will change. Yes, more and more positive research helps but it will take all three things. But we could say most steroid users are idiotic meatheads, but again, that's just another false assumption. There was a huge study/survey of steroid users done several years ago, I can dig it up if anyone's interested, that described the population of steroid users by stats. The avg. income of a steroid user in the U.S. is $20,000+ a year more than the national average. 70 something % work in white collar jobs, the rate of college degrees was almost 98%, the rate of steroid users that were in a fraternity in college was less than 5%. The number of steroid users with criminal records was less than 1% and the average age was mid-30's and up. (tons of stats in this thing but that's all I can remember off the top of my head) The point - steroid users in the U.S. do not represent the crowd of people we're led to believe, at least not the majority.

I agree. I have brought that up before. We don't have a lobby and are made up of people from different sides of the aisle whom can't get over political ideology, and as you pointed out, have no money backing us.

[system admin]

Bullshark,

Its not just our President. Its our up and coming culture. Unfortunately, the only way to come back from this path we are on is for it all to burn to the ground and rebuild again. I know that sounds harsh, but IMHO that is what will need to be done. I am not a doomsday guy, but I do have supplies to survive long after something bad should happen lol

I dont want that joke to take away from what I feel, but I really do think the kids and young people of today may not have the mindset or "get it done" attitude it takes to be leaders.

Bc

[system admin]

BTW,

Good to see you Kel!!!! Man, I love seeing you here when I stop by.

[Beethoven]

Bullshark,

Its not just our President. Its our up and coming culture. Unfortunately, the only way to come back from this path we are on is for it all to burn to the ground and rebuild again. I know that sounds harsh, but IMHO that is what will need to be done. I am not a doomsday guy, but I do have supplies to survive long after something bad should happen lol

I dont want that joke to take away from what I feel, but I really do think the kids and young people of today may not have the mindset or "get it done" attitude it takes to be leaders.

Bc

Being rugged, self reliant is not preached anymore. There have to be winners and losers. You can learn as much from losing as you can by winning. It also teaches humility. Why is it always outrageous when oil companies profit, insurance companies profit, evil walmart profits but no one cares that College and Universities keep raising and raising their tuition, and the government doesn't intervene there, they just set up more student loans for you to pay. No one cares that University professors make six figures, some whom have never stepped out of the classroom. Yet the government wants to tell Walmart, oil companies and insurance companies how to run their businesses and how much to charge. Why aren't the same people screaming for subsidies for someone to go to Harvard or Yale? It's pure hypocrisy due to political beliefs and not equality or most importantly, FREEDOM.

[kelkel]

There was a huge study/survey of steroid users done several years ago, I can dig it up if anyone's interested, that described the population of steroid users by stats. The avg. income of a steroid user in the U.S. is $20,000+ a year more than the national average. 70 something % work in white collar jobs, the rate of college degrees was almost 98%, the rate of steroid users that were in a fraternity in college was less than 5%. The number of steroid users with criminal records was less than 1% and the average age was mid-30's and up. (tons of stats in this thing but that's all I can remember off the top of my head) The point - steroid users in the U.S. do not represent the crowd of people we're led to believe, at least not the majority.

Ironically that sounds like the average first time Harley buyer as well.

[Black]

Bullshark,

Its not just our President. Its our up and coming culture. Unfortunately, the only way to come back from this path we are on is for it all to burn to the ground and rebuild again. I know that sounds harsh, but IMHO that is what will need to be done. I am not a doomsday guy, but I do have supplies to survive long after something bad should happen lol

I dont want that joke to take away from what I feel, but I really do think the kids and young people of today may not have the mindset or "get it done" attitude it takes to be leaders.

Bc

I'm right there with you brother. People think I'm joking when I say I'd rather live in a 'post-apocalyptic, Mad-Max' type world than continue to live in this world's current and ongoing state. Actually, fingers crossed, it is slowly heading down that path.

I could say so much more and have (out loud and to myself), but it does no good. Sad and disheartening.

[Megalodon6]

Off topic but I love mad max

I'm right there with you brother. People think I'm joking when I say I'd rather live in a 'post-apocalyptic, Mad-Max' type world than continue to live in this world's current and ongoing state. Actually, fingers crossed, it is slowly heading down that path.

I could say so much more and have (out loud and to myself), but it does no good. Sad and disheartening.

[61er]

Pretty good stuff from a lot of you. Our current administration has done nothing but lie, hide, fudge, misrepresent, etc...

Time will tell and none of us will have to debate soon enough.


Here is something on Humana website that shows that testosterone is not covered:

https://www.humana.com/insurance-thr...ols/drug-list/

Click Drug List Search

Type in "Testosterone" and search.

Choose "Rx4" or "Rx3" and search.

I dont have much more than this at the moment, but its a start to get to the bottom of it.

I've followed your instructions and the results show that while some testosterone medications aren't covered by Humana, most remain covered.

This thread began eight days ago with the following claim:

"Humana announces today they will no longer cover TRT, this includes doctors visits, labs, medications, etc. Blue Cross Blue Shield soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before all follow suit. TRT is not considered a medical necessity, it is elective. While only elective for those that qualify, it's still considered elective."

So far there have been 187 postings to this thread and not a shred of proof to the claim. Search engines return nothing.

[Metalject]

I've followed your instructions and the results show that while some testosterone medications aren't covered by Humana, most remain covered.

This thread began eight days ago with the following claim:

"Humana announces today they will no longer cover TRT, this includes doctors visits, labs, medications, etc. Blue Cross Blue Shield soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before all follow suit. TRT is not considered a medical necessity, it is elective. While only elective for those that qualify, it's still considered elective."

So far there have been 187 postings to this thread and not a shred of proof to the claim. Search engines return nothing.

I did the search as well. All I could find was that Androgel was still covered to some extent but that's it. But who knows how up to date the website is, I'd be shocked if it's updated regularly. Anyway, the best way to find out, have that insurance and see if it covers your TRT.

[system admin]

This was told to us by a physician with very good reputation. There is no agenda here and that is what he told us. There would be no reason for a good doctor to tell me that he just received a letter from Humana saying that they will not be covering testosterone treatment any longer.

I guess we will see.... like Obamacare lol

If you have Humana, call them and find out if they cover it. BTW, I am not sure if you noticed, but injectable testosterone is not covered at all and the others are in a high tier that would cost you a lot of money.

Im waiting for response from calls we made. Will keep you all posted.

[Megalodon6]

I have BCBS not covered. But I am a loyal patient of lowt.com

[Beethoven]

I've followed your instructions and the results show that while some testosterone medications aren't covered by Humana, most remain covered.

This thread began eight days ago with the following claim:

"Humana announces today they will no longer cover TRT, this includes doctors visits, labs, medications, etc. Blue Cross Blue Shield soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before all follow suit. TRT is not considered a medical necessity, it is elective. While only elective for those that qualify, it's still considered elective."

So far there have been 187 postings to this thread and not a shred of proof to the claim. Search engines return nothing.

61er I was on humana up until about nine months ago when I began trt and my testosterone was not covered. I imagine the only reason BW was covered is probably because he was my primary care physician. But then again, I'm on Avmed now and all is the same except my physician. I can tell you this, NONE of the physicians I've spoken to like Obamacare. You would think that with all the potential business they'd be doing they would love it.

[Beethoven]

Off topic but I love mad max

I love Mad Max.

[APIs]

BTW, I am not sure if you noticed, but injectable testosterone is not covered at all and the others are in a high tier that would cost you a lot of money.

Just an FYI, but IM Test Cyp is still covered by Oxford. Hope it stays that way...

[2Sox]

Dammit, dammit, dammit......

I stopped TRT for the past 3 weeks because the VA wanted me to show them a low number before they can treat me.

Cobra,

Don't give up hope. Not to make less of Buzz's experiences at all but you've got to look into things for yourself. I'd suggest you go slow.

A good buddy of mine of thirty years, 100% disabled U.S. Navy Vietnam vet - with Hep C, has himself, his wife and four daughters treated by the VA all his adult life. Not a hiccup with his care.

By the way, another fairly successful single payer U.S. Government sponsored system: Medicare. Just try to take away medicare from someone who has it - like myself! Not a chance. Why not Medicare for all and throw out the ACA? I'd go for that.

(Maybe this will have you guys talk about something else.) ;-)

[Metalject]

Cobra,

Don't give up hope. Not to make less of Buzz's experiences at all but you've got to look into things for yourself. I'd suggest you go slow.

A good buddy of mine of thirty years, 100% disabled U.S. Navy Vietnam vet - with Hep C, has himself, his wife and four daughters treated by the VA all his adult life. Not a hiccup with his care.

By the way, another fairly successful single payer U.S. Government sponsored system: Medicare. Just try to take away medicare from someone who has it - like myself! Not a chance. Why not Medicare for all and throw out the ACA? I'd go for that.

(Maybe this will have you guys talk about something else.) ;-)

OK, I'll take a stab. Big difference in medicare and ACA. You pay into medicare for years and years, you're entire adult life. The ACA, you take money away from working people who are already also paying into medicare and giving it to others. That's the first difference and a massive one.

If Obama care is to work at all, they will absolutely have to take more and more from others. So in the end, I will lose more of my paycheck to fund Obama care and there is no way they're going to stop taking away what I'm required to pay for medicare. As of now, 25% of all my pay goes to the federal government. That's not including all other taxes. Do you understand how much money that is? Granted, the total amount is relative to each individual's situation and total income but 25% plus all the other taxes puts a strain on anyone.

[system admin]

I am anxious to see what the middle class says when all of the costs for this thing show itself and there is a lot less money left in their bank accounts. All of those who think they are entitled to all of these handouts and who allow their IDEALS to get in the way of fiscal common sense will be the first to protest when THEY start to struggle. Its as simple as the "Waiting Game" now. In the mean time, I am just going to pour a drink and wait for the show.

However, I would like to make it clear that I do NOT want our amazing country to suffer or to become weak and fragile. I just simply have lost hope and think it will be too hard to change things without some sort of disastrous event.

[Black]

I'm curious if this ObamaCare will "wake up" the American Middle Class.

[Beethoven]

Cobra,

Don't give up hope. Not to make less of Buzz's experiences at all but you've got to look into things for yourself. I'd suggest you go slow.

A good buddy of mine of thirty years, 100% disabled U.S. Navy Vietnam vet - with Hep C, has himself, his wife and four daughters treated by the VA all his adult life. Not a hiccup with his care.

By the way, another fairly successful single payer U.S. Government sponsored system: Medicare. Just try to take away medicare from someone who has it - like myself! Not a chance. Why not Medicare for all and throw out the ACA? I'd go for that.

(Maybe this will have you guys talk about something else.) ;-)

Well I happen to have my mother that's 91 years old and I can tell you Medicare on its own for her has not been that good. She came down with myasthenia graves some years ago and to make a long story short, I had to pay for a highly regarded specialist out of my own pocket for the correct diagnosis. Why you ask? Because Medicare part A still has co pays and out of pocket costs that for a working person might be tough, but a retired person widowed on a fixed income can not. So in comes the Medicare HMO plans. Not too bad except for a condition like hers, the meds were not covered. If she hadn't had me, forget about it. This woman came to this country, LEGALLY I might add with my father more than 60 years ago and NEVER had any government help. Any other immigrant today without being a citizen gets Medicare, Medicaid, low income housing etc, but the one who worked, paid taxes and became an American Citizen does not. Forgive me if I'm not thrilled. Again the welfare state at work. I looked up the budget from the CBO the other day and guess what, Medicare IS getting reduced money wise, mind you none of Obamas penalties or anything else has kicked in yet. It was supposed to but the executive order pen came out real quick due to upcoming elections, which btw is illegal. But what's a little illegality to this administration. The funny and sad thing is, if similar things were happening and this was a Republican president, these same people would be outraged and the media would be bashing 24X7. Romney did say that Russia would be a threat, and Medicare would be cut and all the left mocked him. Now this President spies on Americans, gave away or missiles defense from Europe, Russia invades Ukraine, a little thing considered an uprise of a few million is happening in Venezuela which the media hardly covers while University students are beaten and killed. Meanwhile or President is going on Jimmy Fallon, picking his March Madness brackets, Michelle is on yet another vacation in a communist country talking us down. The military is going to suffer extensive cuts, (your smooth running VA program) in lieu of more welfare. I'm sorry but that's down right embarrassing for this great country being divided and conquered from within.