Krugerrs TRT Journey

[Todd Thomas]

You know Todd - I was being respectful and your just being an asshole now!
[/SIZE]

OH PLEASE LOL

You were respectful? Listen NACH go play games with someone who doesn't know exactly what you are doing.

I am really sick of everyone telling me how crappy IMT is but saying it in a "nice" way so that makes it ok right? Funny how all the people saying this don't use IMT?

STRANGE

I kind of expected it though. Anytime I have ever challenged Marcus he gets all butt hurt right away and shuts down. He even banned the IMT account so he could post his pathetic survey with impunity LOL

How dare someone challenge what he or one of the other vets say here right? The vets here must be right because they are vets right?

Even though every single post I have made has been substantiated with the king of the 10 week protocol himself Mr BB, studies.

Its honestly so atrocious only an idiot would not realize there is an ulterior motive here.

[NACH3]

OH PLEASE LOL

You were respectful? Listen NACH go play games with someone who doesn't know exactly what you are doing.

It seems your the one who enjoys the games?! Sorry about that

I am really sick of everyone telling me how crappy IMT is but saying it in a "nice" way so that makes it ok right? Funny how all the people saying this don't use IMT?

WHAAAAAAT?!?! I've not once sai ANYTHING regarding IMT(if you look when you first came on here I was very much liking the things I hear from IMT - where in the hell did you get this from my posts and turn it around to what it is?!?!

STRANGE

I kind of expected it though. Anytime I have ever challenged Marcus he gets all butt hurt right away and shuts down. He even banned the IMT account so he cold post his pathetic survey with impunity LOL

How dare someone challenge what he or one of the other vets say here right? The vets here must be right because they are vets right?

I think everyone should be challenged if they have the ability to do so in a civil way.... Something you seem to lack

Even though every single post I have made has been substantiated with the king of the 10 week protocol himself Mr BB

If you need to Take this to pm my man - or if you can't pm yet w/this account feel free to email me... But I will not derail this thread any further... It's the OPs thread and he's trying to get to steady state levels which we've all said it does take time...

[Todd Thomas]

Yea it takes time cause the injection schedule is retarded!

[Todd Thomas]

And then try to say this is about money. Give me a break we can't take clients across the pond.

We, unlike the so called "vets" here, care about more than just money. This all started over his health, and his poor blood work numbers.

Escalating HCT

[NACH3]

And then try to say this is about money. Give me a break we can't take clients across the pond.

^^ again Whaaaaaat?! When and where Todd - it seems your pulling sh!t outta your arse and then going backwards to what you assumed people said in posts... Your in a very competive industry and seem to be doing great... Why all the hostility...

We, unlike the so called "vets" here, care about more than just money. This all started over his health, and his poor blood work numbers.

Escalating HCT

Now your going after the Vets(in a way to make it look as if they/we(staff) don't care) Please man stop with BS! Every staff member we have has the members' best interest at hand, You just can't take anyone disagreeing with you... Period! Now let's please get back on topic...

[BG]

We, unlike the so called "vets" here, care about more than just money.

You better get your facts straight before you go running your big mouth anymore.We dont get a dime, so money is far from on our thoughts and we cant ban accounts so talk to admin. Your a drug dealer selling illegal peps for MONEY, not caring for peoples health. Your just a business man thats why your so pissed, your losing money with all you dumb antics. Most of them are not FDA approved so how do you know they are healthy? A pro going to the Olympia says blah blah blah, sure he can tell they are working alone with 3000gs of juice, 30 ius of slin and 20 of gh he's taking also. Your a fool and every post you prove it. I see a jail cell in the future for you.

[Mr.BB]

... the king of the 10 week protocol himself Mr BB...

Fack... I really got under this guy skin... He needs to call me into every discussion.. ffs

[marcus300]

OH PLEASE LOL

You were respectful? Listen NACH go play games with someone who doesn't know exactly what you are doing.

I am really sick of everyone telling me how crappy IMT is but saying it in a "nice" way so that makes it ok right? Funny how all the people saying this don't use IMT?

STRANGE

I kind of expected it though. Anytime I have ever challenged Marcus he gets all butt hurt right away and shuts down. He even banned the IMT account so he could post his pathetic survey with impunity LOL

How dare someone challenge what he or one of the other vets say here right? The vets here must be right because they are vets right?

Even though every single post I have made has been substantiated with the king of the 10 week protocol himself Mr BB, studies.

Its honestly so atrocious only an idiot would not realize there is an ulterior motive here.

I think your suffering from Delusional disorder because ive never spoken to you except once over a mentally disturbed member you need to watch out for, other than that your claims are false. Drop you peptide use and things may get better

Like ive said this is defo my last post here because it looks like everything has been resolved

[marcus300]

You better get your facts straight before you go running your big mouth anymore.We dont get a dime, so money is far from on our thoughts and we cant ban accounts so talk to admin. Your a drug dealer selling illegal peps for MONEY, not caring for peoples health. Your just a business man thats why your so pissed, your losing money with all you dumb antics. Most of them are not FDA approved so how do you know they are healthy? A pro going to the Olympia says blah blah blah, sure he can tell they are working alone with 3000gs of juice, 30 ius of slin and 20 of gh he's taking also. Your a fool and every post you prove it. I see a jail cell in the future for you.

Indeed, laughable when we try our best to steer our member in a safe environment, looks like its been sorted out and if it hasn't, Todd send me an email and I'll put you straight

[krugerr]

Well that escalated quickly...

Thanks guys for stopping in at least! Ive got a blood test next week, so I'll keep y'all posted. Still feeling hormonal.

[krugerr]

So results are coming in for yesterday. four and a half weeks after injection. H&H has dropped slowly since injection, Cholesterol hasnt really moved too much.

-----------------------------

LIPIDS

Name	Value	Range
Serum Cholesterol	4.9 mmol/L	<5.2 mmol/L
Serum Triglycerides	1.98 mmol/L	0.28 - 2.2 mmol/L
Serum HDL Cholesterol	1 mmol/L	1 - 10 mmol/L
Calculated LDL Cholesterol	3 mmol/L	< 3 mmol/L
Serum Cholesterol/ HDL Ratio	4.9 mmol/L	<4 mmol/L

H&H

Name	Value	Range
Haemoglobin Estimation	167 g/L	130 - 180 g/L
Haematocrit	0.48 L/L	0.38 - 0.54 L/L

Testosterone

Name	Value	Range
Serum Free Testosterone	204 pmol/L	225 - 9999 pmol/L
Serum Testosterone	7.2 nmol/L	10 - 35 nmol/L
Sex Hormone Binding Globin	19 nmol/L	10 - 70 nmol/L

[krugerr]

Had a discussion with my doctor today. As you can see from the above results, my levels have crashed again after 1g Nebido in 4.5 weeks

Tested - 14th July - FT 7.1 / TT 201
Injected - 4th August - 1000mg Nebido
Tested - 8th August - FT 10.5 / TT 273
Tested - 19th August - FT 15.6 / TT 382
Tested - 5th September - FT 7.2 / TT 204

As you can see from that, 1g took me as high as 382TT and back down to where i started again in 32 days. Ive attached the graph for those like me that like a visual aid.

Dr has blamed my injection technique. So hes going to "show me how" on thursday... still... at least we know that the booster shot wouldnt have made a difference to my original start of Nebido. Im going to be starting from scratch again at this injection.

Seriously, anyone have any thoughts? How can I be back at the start in 32 days.

I dont want to get back onto the topic of halflives, but even if we cautiously assume a HL of 14 days, I should still have about 25% of the Nebido in my system.

[hammerheart]

You seem to lack the esterases needed to free the molecule, I cannot find another explaination.

Injection technique my aas

[krugerr]

You seem to lack the esterases needed to free the molecule, I cannot find another explaination.

Injection technique my aas

Sorry, forgive my idiocy. Whats that?

[Mr.BB]

Where are you injecting heheh?

Maybe you are too BIG for nebido

Do it like Marcus, inject in bicep

[krugerr]

Where are you injecting heheh?

Maybe you are too BIG for nebido

Do it like Marcus, inject in bicep

Ive been doing the glutes. Dr definitely wont do my bicep!

Just mega frustrating, you know... I just want to feel normal again, even through proper channels I feel wank.
Started with creams/gels in January, and Nebido in march, and my levels are no higher after 6 months.

[hammerheart]

Sorry, forgive my idiocy. Whats that?

The enzymes that perform ester cleavage.

[krugerr]

The enzymes that perform ester cleavage.

I see, but as my SHBG is about right, and my free test did increase... albeit, briefly... could you possibly elaborate? thanks!

[hammerheart]

I see, but as my SHBG is about right, and my free test did increase... albeit, briefly... could you possibly elaborate? thanks!

Well it's not that you lack them but just have less than normal. If I remember right Todd from IMT stated the same in the midst of the nebido diatribe.

[krugerr]

Well it's not that you lack them but just have less than normal. If I remember right Todd from IMT stated the same in the midst of the nebido diatribe.

I see. Is there any other blood tests I should be asking for then? Anything else that would show this, or discount it?

[Mr.BB]

If you used deca before and worked that should not be the problem.

[krugerr]

If you used deca before and worked that should not be the problem.

I have used many cycles before, long and short.

Test, Tren , Deca , NPP... not at the same time mind you!
Ive said previously in here though that I never responded well to low doses, my cycles were always fairly large before I noticed gains.

[Mr.BB]

How tall are you?

And weight?

If I remember correctly you are a big guy...

[krugerr]

How tall are you?

And weight?

If I remember correctly you are a big guy...

Height: 6'4" (~194cm)
Weight: 290lbs (131kg)
Bodyfat: 25% Approximately

I havent trained or dieted properly in months, probably since the start of TRT.

[Mr.BB]

Its difficult to say anything, and would always be theories.

But on a bright side it seems the doctor has your attention.

Only thing I could suggest would be to contact bayer and see if they have any explanation or idea.

[krugerr]

Its difficult to say anything, and would always be theories.

But on a bright side it seems the doctor has your attention.

Only thing I could suggest would be to contact bayer and see if they have any explanation or idea.

Yeah I have his attention, but hes fairly useless. He has no idea, and has already referred me back to the Endo.

I may drop bayer an email to see if they can shed some light. But I suspect they'll just say I need to speak to my Endo.

[Todd Thomas]

Indeed, laughable when we try our best to steer our member in a safe environment, looks like its been sorted out and if it hasn't, Todd send me an email and I'll put you straight

Set me straight on what exactly? Do it right here on the open board I have nothing to hide.

Honestly Marcus I have had many conversations with you in the past, no need to hash up old stuff when you give me plenty of recent material to go on.

Saying the peptides do not work makes you look uninformed. These peptides are what is used to diagnose AGHD through a GH stimulation test. So if they didn't work that test would never register a reading LOL.

The only reason they wouldn't work is if you had complete failure of the pituitary in which case you would most likely have shrinking organs and unsealing wounds.

So again, you just don't have a clue what your talking about, but this didn't surprise me 3 years ago either.



Kruger..... you need to try a different ester and see if the esterase is the issue. No reason they can't prescribe you testosterone enanthate , they have been prescribing it for years over there.

[krugerr]

Set me straight on what exactly? Do it right here on the open board I have nothing to hide. Honestly Marcus I have had many conversations with you in the past, no need to hash up old stuff when you give me plenty of recent material to go on. Saying the peptides do not work makes you look uninformed. These peptides are what is used to diagnose AGHD through a GH stimulation test. So if they didn't work that test would never register a reading LOL. The only reason they wouldn't work is if you had complete failure of the pituitary in which case you would most likely have shrinking organs and unsealing wounds. So again, you just don't have a clue what your talking about, but this didn't surprise me 3 years ago either. Kruger..... you need to try a different ester and see if the esterase is the issue. No reason they can't prescribe you testosterone enanthate, they have been prescribing it for years over there.

Thanks Todd. I believe as a matter of course my Dr will only prescribe Nebido as that's what his system says. I won't be able to discuss injection protocols until I see the Endo.

Appreciate the feedback. I'll keep it noted.

Sent from my iPhone using App

[gymffiti]

Thanks Todd. I believe as a matter of course my Dr will only prescribe Nebido as that's what his system says. I won't be able to discuss injection protocols until I see the Endo.

Appreciate the feedback. I'll keep it noted.

Sent from my iPhone using App

It sounds like you've been on a rollercoaster

Even the charts in this thread, look that way ... Not that I understand them lol

Hopefully things will level out soon

[krugerr]

It sounds like you've been on a rollercoaster

Even the charts in this thread, look that way ... Not that I understand them lol

Hopefully things will level out soon

Thanks brother, me too!

[krugerr]

So I have just been and had my 6-week booster shot... not that it'll do much good as my levels are in the dirt.
Dr suggested that the cause of the issue might be my injection technique, so insisted that he do them until I reach steady state...

So, he draws it, sticks it in my ass, and injects all 4ml in about 20 seconds. Bastard! Sore as hell now.
Of course, as a Dr, no matter what I say, he knows better.

Hes suggested a 10 week protocol now. I pointed out that I had returned to base levels after only 4.5 weeks, and he said that "everyone is different, we'll get there"... that doesnt explain your reasoning for 10week protocol. knob.

Oh well, I see the Endo before my next injection is due. Hopefully he will be better.

[gymffiti]

So I have just been and had my 6-week booster shot... not that it'll do much good as my levels are in the dirt.
Dr suggested that the cause of the issue might be my injection technique, so insisted that he do them until I reach steady state...

So, he draws it, sticks it in my ass, and injects all 4ml in about 20 seconds. Bastard! Sore as hell now.
Of course, as a Dr, no matter what I say, he knows better.

Hes suggested a 10 week protocol now. I pointed out that I had returned to base levels after only 4.5 weeks, and he said that "everyone is different, we'll get there"... that doesnt explain your reasoning for 10week protocol. knob.

Oh well, I see the Endo before my next injection is due. Hopefully he will be better.

On the NHS?

Sounds like an overcrowding / monetary decision

[krugerr]

On the NHS?

Sounds like an overcrowding / monetary decision

Indeed on the NHS. As I have said, I hope my regular blood work, will be enough evidence to have a proper discussion with the Endo in a few weeks.

[InternalFire]

Holy smokes Kruger, that kinda fukcedup. May I ask you, do you sport your glutes alot? I mean lots of walking, stairs, or sitting a lot everyday? Something I found interesting if I pinned my glute and did cardio everyday I feel more sex drive spike during first 2 days, more oily skin and i tend to feel less libido few days later till I get my next pin, compared to where I pin and avoid cardio or sporting my glute alot I find it I feel more stable/even between pons. Could be all in my head and just placebo

[krugerr]

Holy smokes Kruger, that kinda fukcedup. May I ask you, do you sport your glutes alot? I mean lots of walking, stairs, or sitting a lot everyday? Something I found interesting if I pinned my glute and did cardio everyday I feel more sex drive spike during first 2 days, more oily skin and i tend to feel less libido few days later till I get my next pin, compared to where I pin and avoid cardio or sporting my glute alot I find it I feel more stable/even between pons. Could be all in my head and just placebo

Yeah mate, I know. Its incredibly fucked up. Im back at feeling shit again. Argued with the Mrs this morning for no reason other than I felt shit.

Theoretically I guess you've a point, with such a large volume of oil in the Nebido shot, excessive activation of the muscle may chance absorption rates. But I think in reality it would be negligible. Specially with something as supposedly long estered as Nebido

[InternalFire]

What I was trying to dig up earlier was how body deals with an excessive amount of ester present in the bloodstream, such as 4ml of it, I was putting some theories together lately that it may come down to this as when body will see compound in abundance it may treat it as either antibody and try to avoid/get rid of it/excrete it quicker thus rendering it less potent, or may try to metabolise it some way faster increasing cell metabolism creating some environment in which ester half life is greatly compromised thus decreasing half life dramatically. Also, I dug up some info that per 1000mg test-u injected you really only get about 600mg worth due to such long ester attached, alot comes in to play... And 600g of test for all it would be worth is 6weeks trt dose for folks who arent needy greedy... Thus this test-u injection should be ideally done once every 4 weeks I think. Just a theory I put together, makes sense to me

[hammerheart]

Yes, once monthly as a minimum... I wish I knew better when I was on nebido. I remember how I felt better on weeks 4-5 from pin day then subsequently down the slope again.

[krugerr]

What I was trying to dig up earlier was how body deals with an excessive amount of ester present in the bloodstream, such as 4ml of it, I was putting some theories together lately that it may come down to this as when body will see compound in abundance it may treat it as either antibody and try to avoid/get rid of it/excrete it quicker thus rendering it less potent, or may try to metabolise it some way faster increasing cell metabolism creating some environment in which ester half life is greatly compromised thus decreasing half life dramatically. Also, I dug up some info that per 1000mg test-u injected you really only get about 600mg worth due to such long ester attached, alot comes in to play... And 600g of test for all it would be worth is 6weeks trt dose for folks who arent needy greedy... Thus this test-u injection should be ideally done once every 4 weeks I think. Just a theory I put together, makes sense to me

Like your thinking brother.

You are correct on the ester weight, it does drastically reduce the effective amount of testosterone . Its seeming to me more and more that a 10 week protocol wont be achievable with Nebido. Ever. Id still be happy with monthly though!

[krugerr]

Yes, once monthly as a minimum... I wish I knew better when I was on nebido. I remember how I felt better on weeks 4-5 from pin day then subsequently down the slope again.

AS above brother, I think this will be the better path, however getting regular scripts from the Endo may prove difficult in the UK. I'll have to wait and see.

I can certainly attest to your timeframe. I felt quite good on week 2 and 3. Week 4 felt lower and week 6 now I feel like a pile of shit.

From my blood tests above, I went up and returned to starting position in 32 days.

[InternalFire]

Here is a deal you can do I guess, keep taking your 10 week shots, and every ~14 days take an extra 250ml shot of test-e/sustanon by yourself, makes your trt kinda still legal and doc still looks after everything thinking that your nebido finally works... That is if he wont be putting you on e5wk protocol ever... Its complicated as fuck otherwise