Self Bleeding!

[600@50]

I've been continuing executing this and still having two issues: it's hard to get a pint worth of blood out (slows down in a halfway) and haven't really found a way to tape the tubes in a way that would make the bottle air tight. No matter how would I suck nothing happens.

Could the first one be that I just don't have the BD cuff tight enough? And is there any tips available to get the poked holes air tight? I've been poking small holes that barely allows the tube to enter and also been trying couple different type of tapes as well. What am I doing wrong?

It makes it easier as bass says to drink plenty of water and stay hydrated. I take 1 or 2 aspirin about an hour before I start the process. The aspirin makes it much easier for me to get a full pint or so out.

[Youthful55guy]

Wow! I though I was the only person that did this. I've only attempted this once, but I was successful at removing a half pint. I learned a lot in doing so and did a lot more research, so I think I can get it up to a pint with no problem next time.

I've been on TRT for over 4 years and maintaining "normal" hemoglobin levels has always been a challenge. I have high SHBG, so I really have to jack up my total T to keep free T in a reasonable range. This then causes high hemoglobin. Experimenting now with low dose stanazolol to lower SHBG and having great success, so I may be able to lower my T dose. For now, I'm at the mercy of the blood donation center to take my blood. Problem is that you can only donate so often and that is sometimes not enough. So about 4 weeks ago, I tried a self-phlobotomy. Believe it or not, all the (sterile) supplies you need are available legally and relatively inexpensively over the internet. Here's my technique:

First off, I use a much smaller 21G 3/4 inch (butterfly) scalp vein set which has has a 12 inch segment of medical grade tubing with a luer lock ending already attached. Granted this is short, but it works with my procedure.

Secondly, I use a sterile disposable 20 mL luer lock syringe to attach to the end of the tubing to get an air tight seal for suctioning the blood out (as opposed to letting my heart pump it out like you do or try to create a vacuum in a plastic bottle). Once you puncture the vein, you simply screw on the luer lock syringe to the luer lock hub of the needle set and slowly suck out the blood. This keeps the blood moving and doesn't allow it to clot and plug up the tubing. When the syringe is full, I remove it and squirt it quickly into a measuring cup to keep track of the total amount of blood removed.

Here are some other notes I've made while researching this on the internet.
• Pre-stretch tubing so it does not curl up during use.
• Enter at 15 degrees and rest at 5 degrees.
• Anchor vein with thumb to side of the vein when puncturing (so it doesn't roll).
• Bevel side of needle up.
• Insert an additional 1/4 inch into vein.
• Should not have to tape the needle if the tubing is adequately stretched, but have several strips pre-cut paper tape hanging around just in case.
• At removal, place sterile gauze over needle and apply gentle pressure while removing needle. Important to do this and maintain pressure to prevent bruising. Avoid the tmeptation to pull up the gauze to peek at the site. You must maintain pressure until the entry site has self-sealed. If you do peek, there is a good chance the vein will ooze blood into the skin and this is what causes bruising at the entry site.
• Withdraw needle at 15 degrees

[bass]

not bad! so you don't even use a cuff?

[Youthful55guy]

I did not, but I like your idea of a BP cuff. My veins are pretty close to the surface.

If I do this again, I might buy one and try it. I just had a lab draw yesterday and will have my CBC results within 5 days. I am also eligible for another donation in 7 days. If hematocrit is above 18, I might consider trying it again and delaying the donation a week or two. I do not want to get on their deferment list due to high hematocrit, so I carefully watch the level. Self-phlebotomy gives me a new tool to do this without having to lower my T dose.

[numbere]

Thanks Bass!!

[vbguy]

I just came across this Bass. I want to say when I first seen the video before this thread(I stumbled upon it on youtube), I said "I wish he would talk and tell me exactly what he's doing haha". But none the less, I guess I get the point after reading your thread. I'm a 32 year old male who has a high RBC who has to give once a month to red cross. I "use" to go to the red cross and give since I'm O- but the last time I went they had asked me if I've been out of the country, and I marked yes as I had just recently got back from Honduras. As soon as I marked "yes" it diss qualified for me to be a giver to them for 1 whole year. But any who.... my last blood work, I was at 19.6 dL on my RBC count. Normal is at like 17 tops! So my dr ordered a "therapeutic blood draw" which the only place around here that would do it was a "infusion center" at our local hospital. Problem is, they pull a FULL blood panel EVERY TIME from my left arm before they can even give me the green light to draw the blood out of my right arm! Not even to mention my insurance doesn't fully cover it. Every visit every month, I have to get 2 DIFFERENT draws from BOTH arms(same day), pay out of pocket $400+ every month for what my insurance does NOT cover, AND I have to go to the hospital to get it done....ONCE A MONTH! I've since gone off of TRT and my test levels are sub 200 right now. You talking about a swift kick in the nuts!

Couple hurdles here I personally know I'm going to run into. My prescribing Dr, he knows that happens to my RBC when I'm on TRT and he knows about my current situation. I "could" and "want" to get back on test but I know for a fact he's going to want to know how my RBC is DROPPING just out of the blue all of a sudden. And if I tell him what I'm doing (self bleeding) he's defiantly not going to be ok with that. I'm personally just stuck between a rock and a hard spot here personally, but I just want to say I appreciate the video and if I can find a way to get around all of this, I'll let you know and post my experience. Thanks again....I'm ready to do this asap haha

[bass]

VD, glad you find this video helpful. sometimes truth is not always good especially when it comes to your health. if i were your i'd answer all questions in a manner that does not disqualify me to donate. and for you doc you simply say i donated blood. no need to give him more details.

[gymffiti]

Just wanted to say thanks to the OP & MsSteroids for putting up this video.

Due to complications in my life, I'm constantly trying to find way of being self sufficient. So I've been trying to find a way of making those home lancet blood tests more effective.

I tried something similar to MsSteroids method, in an attempt to draw 5mls of blood ...

For sterilization, instead of industrial tubing though, I just used a Winged Infusion butterfly needle, with it's tubing attached to a syringe



As I was going to pull the syringe myself, I thought a tourniquet would suffice and I did get a pretty good vein pump from my setup.


Having said all that, I was unsuccessful in drawing any blood ... I slowly pulled the syringe all the way back and with nowhere left to go, no blood had made it's way through the tubing

This was my first attempt at drawing blood, so I probably made some newbie errors. Using a 25g needle was likely one of them, but I was being a chicken tbh


If in future I'm successful, of course I'll share any tips

[bass]

yeah 25g is way too small unless you're drawing with vacuum assist like they do at the labs. 16g is what they use at blood drives, but that's way too big and it damages the vein, that's why i went with 18g with vacuum assist via tubing and mouth. don't overthink the sterilization issue, if the needled is new, you're good to go, and the blood is coming out of your vein not going in, so nothing from the tube will ever get near your vein.

[kelkel]

Good to see you around Bass! Hope all is well!

[Chicagotarsier]

Video makes me feel a hundred at the doc to take a litre is a bargain :P Hardcore to me. I would miss the sexy nurses so will stay with current program.

[gymffiti]

yeah 25g is way too small unless you're drawing with vacuum assist like they do at the labs. 16g is what they use at blood drives, but that's way too big and it damages the vein, that's why i went with 18g with vacuum assist via tubing and mouth. don't overthink the sterilization issue, if the needled is new, you're good to go, and the blood is coming out of your vein not going in, so nothing from the tube will ever get near your vein.

Thanks for your input Bass

I'm reluctant to use the vacuum assist option, because last time I had blood taken by a professional, they failed to get any blood with one of those. She basically said 's*d it, these are cr*p anyway' ... It was a very long appointment

Also, I want to transfer the blood to a collection tube, then send it for analysis. So I can't use a Vacutainer because of the additives

The collection tubes (with additives) supplied by the website are only 2 inches tall. It's a shame I can't just put those into a vacuum assist syringe.

After my failed butterfly needle attempt, I'm guessing my best option is straight needle to syringe. Here's where it gets tricky ...

After 20 years of injections for MRI scans, I've been advised that the best place to 'stick' me, is on my lower forearm, not far from my wrist

A long insulin syringe, with a bigger needle perhaps?

[bass]

lower arm is a shitty place to stick a needle in, the vein moves side to side. they must have a way to hold it in place, i sue couldn't. drawing with a syringe by yourselves is very difficult. one of our members here (Far from massive) uses a vacuum pump and small gauge butterfly needle. you could try his method. i don't know his complete setup but i remember it was very simple. PM him if you're interested.

[gymffiti]

lower arm is a shitty place to stick a needle in, the vein moves side to side. they must have a way to hold it in place, i sue couldn't. drawing with a syringe by yourselves is very difficult. one of our members here (Far from massive) uses a vacuum pump and small gauge butterfly needle. you could try his method. i don't know his complete setup but i remember it was very simple. PM him if you're interested.

Before they put the needle in, I think they put a finger to one side of the (radial artery) vein and pull down a little

Even though it was my first (& to this date, only) attempt, I actually found it surprisingly easy to find the vein ... Hopefully it wasn't just beginners luck lol

Thanks for the advice Bass. I'll see if FFM is still around and if he's willing to share his setup

[Far from massive]

Hey guys been off the board for a while and just got a PM on this, but figured I would post on the board so all could see.

You said you used a butterfly and a syringe....If so by pulling the syringe plunger back you should have plenty of vacuum, most likely you just were not in a vein.

If you are using blood for a blood drive they need to remove the blood without destroying the blood cells....this is the reason for the large needles the smaller gauge will destroy a lot of the cells.

Not sure if you if you are trying to pull 5 mls of blood for some kind of labwork? If so,

For Labwork this may also be the case...however I am not sure, its easy to envision tests where the first thing they do is centrifuge (spin) the blood to separate the components and broken cells would negate this.

My guess is that you are a lot better off using the standard double ended needle deal where there is one needle that punctures the vein then a plastic tube with another needle inside that punctures the blood collection container. These containers that you place into the receiver end of the double ended needle are called Vacutainers and have a set amount of vacuum inside of them to create the blood flow into the container as well as an agent inside the tube that causes various changes to the blood with the tube prior to testing at the lab.

[Far from massive]

For those just trying to take out a pint of blood to reduce RBC counts.

What I do is to take a regular lab jar and place two hoses in the lid one goes to a needle and penetrates the jar to near the bottom of the bottle.

The second one goes to the vacuum pump and on this hose the hose should just clear the top of the screw on lid so that it does not suck up any blood only air from within the bottle. Whether you use a hand pump or an electric pump, is up to you, I use a hand pump...its a fair amount of work since on my abused ass blood it takes about 10 minutes to pull a pint at 10 in/hg vacuum through a 22g needle.

As said by Bass a 16g needle is used on blood drives but that's to keep the cells intact and its fairly damaging to the vein compared to even a 20g....my own personal "happy middle ground" is a 22g needle but for those with better blood a smaller gauge will also work.

I used to use butterflys, however with the right size clear tubing ( sorry I bought it yrs ago and do not remember the size ) all you have to do is take a pair of scissors and cut the locking edges off the end of the luer lock needle so that it is more or less a rounded rim and it will seal the needle fine although it takes a lot of effort to force the end of the needle into the tubing.

[gymffiti]

Hey guys been off the board for a while and just got a PM on this, but figured I would post on the board so all could see.

You said you used a butterfly and a syringe....If so by pulling the syringe plunger back you should have plenty of vacuum, most likely you just were not in a vein.

If you are using blood for a blood drive they need to remove the blood without destroying the blood cells....this is the reason for the large needles the smaller gauge will destroy a lot of the cells.

Not sure if you if you are trying to pull 5 mls of blood for some kind of labwork? If so,

For Labwork this may also be the case...however I am not sure, its easy to envision tests where the first thing they do is centrifuge (spin) the blood to separate the components and broken cells would negate this.

My guess is that you are a lot better off using the standard double ended needle deal where there is one needle that punctures the vein then a plastic tube with another needle inside that punctures the blood collection container. These containers that you place into the receiver end of the double ended needle are called Vacutainers and have a set amount of vacuum inside of them to create the blood flow into the container as well as an agent inside the tube that causes various changes to the blood with the tube prior to testing at the lab.

Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge

Yeah, I do want to transfer the blood into collection tubes (already supplied by a website), then send for analysis. They're about 2" tall with additives



I've had prior experience with Vacutainers ...

I'm reluctant to use the vacuum assist option, because last time I had blood taken by a professional, they failed to get any blood with one of those. She basically said 's*d it, these are cr*p anyway' ... It was a very long appointment

Despite that bad experience, I am willing to give it a go. But I'd have to find Vacutainer tubes without additives and they appear to be vastly more expensive than other colour tubes.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BD-VACUTAIN...dp/B01IYNVCBK/

If I can't find a cheaper supplier of Vacutainer tubes without additives, hopefully I can have success with a bigger gauge butterly needle, if I replace my tourniquet with a manual BP pump

A quick question though - When using a butterfly needle, which is best for more drawing pressure ...

A short & fat syringe or a long thin insulin style syringe (of the same mls)?

Thanks again for your input

[numbere]

Bump

[kelkel]

Nice work. I've got to pick me up some tubing to do this myself.

[numbere]

Nice work. I've got to pick me up some tubing to do this myself.

I have the tubing and needles below.

They get the job done but during colder months I have to tape the tubing to the needle because the OD of the tubing is the exact same as the ID of the needles.

Polyurethane Tubing, 4 mm OD, 2.5 mm ID, 20 m Length

NIPRO 18g x 1"

[Mr.BB]

Bump

That could save a life

[numbere]

That could save a life

I'm prepping for a blast and took isotretinoin for a few weeks.

[Mr.BB]

Understand.

For me only worked after I was 7 months on it.

[numbere]

Understand.

For me only worked after I was 7 months on it.

It only takes about 2 or 3 weeks at 10mg/d to clear me up and it lasts for about 6 months give or take.

Before AAS only my face would experience acne.

After experimenting with AAS most all of the acne I experience has migrated to my shoulders and upper back.

[kelkel]

I have the tubing and needles below.

They get the job done but during colder months I have to tape the tubing to the needle because the OD of the tubing is the exact same as the ID of the needles.

Polyurethane Tubing, 4 mm OD, 2.5 mm ID, 20 m Length

NIPRO 18g x 1"

Link wouldn't open. I found some on Amazon just been lazy and haven't ordered it. Can't find any locally.

[numbere]

Link wouldn't open. I found some on Amazon just been lazy and haven't ordered it. Can't find any locally.

This link will work.

I got it from Amazon.

Polyurethane Tubing

Media Vet International has butterfly setups.

Butterfly Needles

[< <Samson> >]

Having the Red Cross Blood Bank on my block sure is nice. The last girl in there juiced me out in like 5 minutes.


It'd be nice to have their complete setup at home, the make shift stuff was too slow and sucked.

[mike198]

Self bleeding not as hard as I thought. I'm on cycle now and have drained 3/4 pint twice now. I can't seem to get more than this, and I have to poke myself twice. I will take an aspirin an hour
before next time and see if that helps

[Couchlock]

So we can just but two hoses into a bottle, one to suction, the other to needle, and let blood like that?

Would hooking the line to a regular leur-lok 21g needle work, as well as the butterfly

[hammerheart]

I wonder where the B12 pins are pushing my hematocrit at. Last time I checked RBC was 7 millions, HCT 46%.

I doubt I will ever be in need of bleeding/donating but I do wonder with the genetic condition I have (microcytic erithrocytosis) whether the same considerations concerning the risks associated with high hematocrit can also be applied with the same reference values, or if I should calculate my own optimal ranges because of different hemodynamic factors.

[bass]

So we can just but two hoses into a bottle, one to suction, the other to needle, and let blood like that?

Would hooking the line to a regular leur-lok 21g needle work, as well as the butterfly

it doesn't matter how you connect the needle to the hose as long its secure. the two hose method is one end connects to the needle and the other end in your mouth to create vacuum. it goes much faster to help suck blood into the bottle than wait for gravity to do it.

[Obs]

Well, I tried this with a 25 guage needle and a vaccum pump. Just a warning to all do not fucking try that it aint worth a fuck. I kicked th sonofabitch up to 5 in. Hg vaccum trying to get the shit to come through. I got about 3ml and the needle moved and closed off against my vein wall and fucked something up. Vein ballooned up under the skin so I pulled out the needle.

Now... 25 guage is too damn small for blood letting. By the time you get blood to pass through the needle for piss, you will be at an unsafe vaccum level.

[Couchlock]

Well, I tried this with a 25 guage needle and a vaccum pump. Just a warning to all do not fucking try that it aint worth a fuck. I kicked th sonofabitch up to 5 in. Hg vaccum trying to get the shit to come through. I got about 3ml and the needle moved and closed off against my vein wall and fucked something up. Vein ballooned up under the skin so I pulled out the needle.

Now... 25 guage is too damn small for blood letting. By the time you get blood to pass through the needle for piss, you will be at an unsafe vaccum level.

Wait, you used a refrigeration vacuum pump.

That's pretty ballsy

[Obs]

Wait, you used a refrigeration vacuum pump.

That's pretty ballsy

No, a manual automotive vaccum pump.

[Obs]

Btw it would work fantastic with a much bigger needle such as an 18ga

[numbere]

So we can just but two hoses into a bottle, one to suction, the other to needle, and let blood like that?

Would hooking the line to a regular leur-lok 21g needle work, as well as the butterfly

There's no need for two hoses.

Put two holes in the top of the bottle and secure the tubing in one hole.

Use an 18g needle and take a few hundred milligrams of aspirin several hours prior.

I can pull 17oz in about 10 minutes following bass's procedure in the OP.

The only thing I do differently is use a manual blood pressure cuff and sit on my sofa.

[numbere]

I wonder where the B12 pins are pushing my hematocrit at. Last time I checked RBC was 7 millions, HCT 46%.

I doubt I will ever be in need of bleeding/donating but I do wonder with the genetic condition I have (microcytic erithrocytosis) whether the same considerations concerning the risks associated with high hematocrit can also be applied with the same reference values, or if I should calculate my own optimal ranges because of different hemodynamic factors.

I think elevated HCT is just as dangerous no matter the cause.

I'd assume your NHS would offer free blood count testing to someone with your condition.

[hammerheart]

I think elevated HCT is just as dangerous no matter the cause.

I'd assume your NHS would offer free blood count testing to someone with your condition.

Yeah but given different conformation of red blood cells (smaller but higher in number) what hematocrit level should I consider as a safe threshold, what applies to anyone else with normal erythrocytes or I need to elaborate my own ranges? Probably just overthinking.

It's a very common condition and nothing to worry about, but I do get free CBC because of thyroiditis, I run one every three months.

[600@50]

I do the exact same procedure as numbere. I take an aspirin about 2 hours before and it really makes a difference with how easy the blood will flow. Manual BP cuff for a little pressure and done in 10 to 15 minutes.

[Couchlock]

I am going to give a double red donation Tuesday

We are talking aspirin, like exact of willow, not acetaminophen, correct?