Insulin Use For Bodybuilding - question/answer thread

[charger69]

As long as your diet calls for a sufficient amount of protein to provide muscle with enough "raw material" then you should not need to adjust your diet for your insulin use in regards to protein.

having said that , the protocol I generally recommend has 10g of EAAs and 10g of BCAAs for your first insulin dose and then 30-50g of whey isolate for your second insulin dose. this is providing you that 'extra' and guarantees the aminos are going to be there in the blood stream when you use your insulin. these 'extra' aminos are over and above your normal dietary protein.

What exactly is 10 g of EAAS and BCAA? I take pills and I do not understand what that relates to. My bcaa is 2:1:1. Do you add them up? 1.1 +.550+.550 per pill. So 5 pills?
EAAs is more difficult. Do I just calculate the essetial, the conditional, etc?


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[GearHeaded]

What exactly is 10 g of EAAS and BCAA? I take pills and I do not understand what that relates to. My bcaa is 2:1:1. Do you add them up? 1.1 +.550+.550 per pill. So 5 pills?
EAAs is more difficult. Do I just calculate the essetial, the conditional, etc?

eeekk.. pills. ok well your pills are probably 500mg per capsule. so you would need 40 caps total to get 10g of each in. you need to get it in powder form to mix with your carb drink. similar to a whey isolate. its weighed out in 'grams' , which is the way food can be weighed out too.
so you need 10 physical grams of each (thats physical weight).

don't worry about the ratio of one amino to another amino or doing math with that. if your brand is high quality then the ratios will be good. you just need enough 'weight' , ie', grams of each.

just like ground beef. it can be weighed out in 'grams' , so that approx 10 grams of beef is 70 calories. well you want 10 grams of pure amino acids (the building blocks of protein). thats about one large full scoop of EAA powder from a quality brand in powder form

[charger69]

eeekk.. pills. ok well your pills are probably 500mg per capsule. so you would need 40 caps total to get 10g of each in. you need to get it in powder form to mix with your carb drink. similar to a whey isolate. its weighed out in 'grams' , which is the way food can be weighed out too.
so you need 10 physical grams of each (thats physical weight).

don't worry about the ratio of one amino to another amino or doing math with that. if your brand is high quality then the ratios will be good. you just need enough 'weight' , ie', grams of each.

just like ground beef. it can be weighed out in 'grams' , so that approx 10 grams of beef is 70 calories. well you want 10 grams of pure amino acids (the building blocks of protein). thats about one large full scoop of EAA powder from a quality brand in powder form

You could have left the "eeeeek" out LOL
Thanks!


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[tarmyg]

Sure. if you follow any pro bodybuilders you'll see some of them doing a depletion phase a week or so out from a show followed by a carb back load day before and of the show. The depletion workouts are for glycogen depletion. a lot of this is done in their weight training as thats glycogen dependent , but for cardio you'll see some of them switching over from steady walking on a treadmill cardio to doing a spin bike with high intensity or the step mill or super incline treadmill with higher intensity. Reason is for more glycogen depletion.

think of the difference between a brisk walk or riding a bike up a steep hill . they can both be considered cardio, but the steady walk does not use glycogen , where as the bike uses a ton of glycogen. the bike requires contraction of muscles to power the bicycle, thats one reason why it uses glycogen as its fuel source. the walk does not.

so LISS cardio or MISS cardio on a treadmill will burn up blood sugars and oxidize fat for fuel.. the HIIT training will use these as well but with the resistance and intensity amped up it taps into glycogen.

a lot of the studies comparing HIIT to LISS can be skewed because of this . and they are really only accounting for calories burned. Sure a high intensity session of HIIT for 20 mins will keep your body systems revved up for an hour or two after the session is over and thus burn more calories. But a MISS cardio session done for a steady hour may end up oxidizing more actual fat (more of the calories burnt and from fat and not some fat plus a bunch of glycogen).

of course none of these studies are generally done on bodybuilders using a bunch of gear, drugs , and fat burners .. and this would skew the results to an entirely different level.

Here is a brand new review article on this subject that would seem to be of interest to this question.

Understanding the factors that effect maximal fat oxidation
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-018-0207-1

[charger69]

eeekk.. pills. ok well your pills are probably 500mg per capsule. so you would need 40 caps total to get 10g of each in. you need to get it in powder form to mix with your carb drink. similar to a whey isolate. its weighed out in 'grams' , which is the way food can be weighed out too.
so you need 10 physical grams of each (thats physical weight).

don't worry about the ratio of one amino to another amino or doing math with that. if your brand is high quality then the ratios will be good. you just need enough 'weight' , ie', grams of each.

just like ground beef. it can be weighed out in 'grams' , so that approx 10 grams of beef is 70 calories. well you want 10 grams of pure amino acids (the building blocks of protein). thats about one large full scoop of EAA powder from a quality brand in powder form

Why do you say not to worry about the ratio?


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[GearHeaded]

Why do you say not to worry about the ratio?

because the ratio is already calculated and taken care of by the manufacturer that produced the product.. so all we do is take our 10g and know the ratio of amino is within range

[charger69]

because the ratio is already calculated and taken care of by the manufacturer that produced the product.. so all we do is take our 10g and know the ratio of amino is within range

Ok. Gotcha. They come in different ratios. I believe that the 2:1:1 ratio is the best. Anything higher is not efficient.
L-leucine assists in protein synthesis and if taking AAS there is no need for additional synthesis. If that is the case then why do they sell higher ratios? My answer is because you hear protein synthesis and figure 10:1:1 is 5 x better than 2:1:1. I call this BS. Also higher ratios are less expensive to manufacture. L- leucine is 50-60% cheaper than valine and 60-70% cheaper than Isoleucine. Any additional insight? Is there faults in my reasoning?


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[GearHeaded]

Ok. Gotcha. They come in different ratios. I believe that the 2:1:1 ratio is the best. Anything higher is not efficient.
L-leucine assists in protein synthesis and if taking AAS there is no need for additional synthesis. If that is the case then why do they sell higher ratios? My answer is because you hear protein synthesis and figure 10:1:1 is 5 x better than 2:1:1. I call this BS. Also higher ratios are less expensive to manufacture. L- leucine is 50-60% cheaper than valine and 60-70% cheaper than Isoleucine. Any additional insight? Is there faults in my reasoning?

its all a gimmick or a selling point for marketing. in fact BCAA's by themselves don't even CAUSE protein synthesis , BCAAs turn on protein synthesis . But this is like turning on all the machines and lights at a factory but with no raw material to make the widgets . so protein synthesis is on but theres nothing to be built.

This is why you need the EAA's in there. this provides the raw material so that once Protein synthesis is on, it can actually 'manufacture' what it needs to.
EAAs are vitally more important then BCAAs Imo . but I throw 10g of both in my intra workout shake

[charger69]

Taking insulin as a PWO begins to allow nutrients into the muscle since skin opens the gates to the muscle.
Right after working out, your body naturally opens the gates for a period of up to 40 minutes. Can you get more bang for your buck by feeding your muscles during this time and then taking post workout slin and feeding your muscles again.
Will they be supersaturated like this and not take anything in? Will the PWO slin affect the natural opening of the gates after a workout?



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[charger69]

its all a gimmick or a selling point for marketing. in fact BCAA's by themselves don't even CAUSE protein synthesis , BCAAs turn on protein synthesis . But this is like turning on all the machines and lights at a factory but with no raw material to make the widgets . so protein synthesis is on but theres nothing to be built.

This is why you need the EAA's in there. this provides the raw material so that once Protein synthesis is on, it can actually 'manufacture' what it needs to.
EAAs are vitally more important then BCAAs Imo . but I throw 10g of both in my intra workout shake

I love the way you explain things... I can even understand them. LOL
Yes, I did leave out the EAA details. I am glad that you picked this up because I was taking BCAA by itself until I read up on this about a year ago. The way that I explained it, o e could have fallen into the same trap that I previously did.
I still swear that you have a secretary typing your answers because they are so complete. I have a tendency to leave out details because I am lazy to type everything out.
At least send a pic of her. LOL


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[GearHeaded]

Taking insulin as a PWO begins to allow nutrients into the muscle since skin opens the gates to the muscle.
Right after working out, your body naturally opens the gates for a period of up to 40 minutes. Can you get more bang for your buck by feeding your muscles during this time and then taking post workout slin and feeding your muscles again.
Will they be supersaturated like this and not take anything in? Will the PWO slin affect the natural opening of the gates after a workout?

where are all these 'nutrients' kept ? things like glucose, creatine, amino acids etc.. They are in the blood stream. in order for these nutrients to get to the cell they have to be shuttled there in the blood, and then insulin is the key that opens the cell to allow these nutrients in.

NOW.. if blood holds all these nutrients. and if normally most our blood is circulating through our body and around organs etc. and NOT going to muscle , BUT when we train suddenly 70% of our blood flow is going to our muscle. Wouldn't this be the best time to make sure our blood is loaded up with these nutrients and the insulin because this is when the delivery and transit time is at its most.

Yes. so pre workout we take insulin and as we begin to train we are taking in all these nutrients (creatine, glucose, aminos) that are being delivered to the blood stream on top of whats already in the blood stream. We get a ton of blood flow to the muscles and thus a ton of delivery and we have the insulin there to open the cells.
we do the same thing again about 30 mins post workout as there is 'cell signaling' going on form muscle damage. more insulin and more nutrients to take advantage of this cell signaling and enhance recovery.

basically we take insulin and nutrients around the time we have the most blood flow to the muscles, being blood is the transporter and thus a very important factor in this whole process.

an example-- if you have a bunch of luggage and want to get from Chicago to LA , a direct flight is going to be way more efficient. having 2 separate lay overs is not ..

when the very small window of time during the day that 70% of our blood is going to muscles. thats the time to jump on the 'direct flight' and take advantage of the one way trip to the muscle cell

[Obs]

where are all these 'nutrients' kept ? things like glucose, creatine, amino acids etc.. They are in the blood stream. in order for these nutrients to get to the cell they have to be shuttled there in the blood, and then insulin is the key that opens the cell to allow these nutrients in.

NOW.. if blood holds all these nutrients. and if normally most our blood is circulating through our body and around organs etc. and NOT going to muscle , BUT when we train suddenly 70% of our blood flow is going to our muscle. Wouldn't this be the best time to make sure our blood is loaded up with these nutrients and the insulin because this is when the delivery and transit time is at its most.

Yes. so pre workout we take insulin and as we begin to train we are taking in all these nutrients (creatine, glucose, aminos) that are being delivered to the blood stream on top of whats already in the blood stream. We get a ton of blood flow to the muscles and thus a ton of delivery and we have the insulin there to open the cells.
we do the same thing again about 30 mins post workout as there is 'cell signaling' going on form muscle damage. more insulin and more nutrients to take advantage of this cell signaling and enhance recovery.

basically we take insulin and nutrients around the time we have the most blood flow to the muscles, being blood is the transporter and thus a very important factor in this whole process.

an example-- if you have a bunch of luggage and want to get from Chicago to LA , a direct flight is going to be way more efficient. having 2 separate lay overs is not ..

when the very small window of time during the day that 70% of our blood is going to muscles. thats the time to jump on the 'direct flight' and take advantage of the one way trip to the muscle cell

I have been doing a morning or noon injection and then one directly at the end of workout. My theory was if I wasn't torn down the cells didn't need it but I can certainly see your point here.

[GearHeaded]

I have been doing a morning or noon injection and then one directly at the end of workout. My theory was if I wasn't torn down the cells didn't need it but I can certainly see your point here.

yep, if there is blood flow going to an area, its because the cells I that area need it. so we might as well catch that "free ride" and shuttle the nutrients while we have that blood flow going on

[Obs]

yep, if there is blood flow going to an area, its because the cells I that area need it. so we might as well catch that "free ride" and shuttle the nutrients while we have that blood flow going on

I have always seen bodybuilding as a two step, tear down then repair process. Such as... Lift to tear down and have you body entirely ready for as much anabolic activity possible, immediately thereafter.
I have always seen orals like dbol , anadrol , and even ephedrine (not aas) as mind to muscle motivators. In this sense I mean they give you the added aggression to destroy and the food you intake gives you the repair needed to grow at max potential because of the anabolic value of the AAS.

Insulin is the very thing that allows the cells to accept but if they are already loaded down to the max (preworkout) then I figured it was a waste. Post
Workout and particularly when a body finds rest, I figured as the optimum time. Like the old standard "Drink your shake within fifteen minutes post workout."

Iactually based my entire diet around that post workout time and the food and supplements I take in.

Post workout I would:
Immediately shoot 10-20 iu slin

Drink a shake with protein bcaass and carbs

Eat a huge meal and relax.


I would literally fall asleep within a few minutes minutes (I know my blood map, sleep and slin = danger)

I considered this my optimum repair time for the workout I had done.

Not arguing but rather asking what I should change?

Btw, when I eat I crash like hell. I always figured this was my body shutting down for deep recovery... Like a lion after eating, here is the nutrients, here is the restyour body needs, and the elevatd anabolic rate is whereby maximized.

[GearHeaded]

Obs I completely get what your saying. and believe the general premise is true, BUT, its mainly true for 'natural' bodybuilding.

just like some really smart people in the industry will say that fasted cardio does not make any difference then fed cardio its all about calories in vs calories out. They may be correct, BUT why does pretty much every pro utilize fasted cardio for prep? because every pro is on gear. those of us on gear play by much different rules then every one else.. heck most the drugs that we take to lose body fat simply work way better in a fasted state.
so to tell an enhanced body builder to not utilize fasted cardio is telling him to waste his drugs.

in the fitness industry in general a lot of things are true and make sense. but a ton of things cross the line between natty and enhanced and so we got to take things in context.


natty's don't need to worry much about pre workout, intra workout, or post workout nutrition. they don't have any where near the hormonal environment and anabolic response that an enhanced guy does.
when I see a guy in my gym 'copying me' when I know he is natty, and he is carrying around his jug filled with carbs, amino acids, etc.. I kinda laugh to myself (not to be an asshole) cause I know as a natty he is not going to be able to put that to use and 'super compensate' .. I on the other hand have a hormonal environment and just injected 50mg of tren suspension, 10iu of insulin , 2iu of HGH, and swallowed 20mg of Dbol .. my body is in a state where it not only has to have that nutrition (other wise I'll go hypo and pass out) but it will make complete use of it.


SUPER COMPENSATION . if you were natty then what your saying is spot on. BUT your not. your body does not just naturally suddenly release 10iu of insulin into the blood stream, and it especially can't do this when your growth hormone levels are elevated. this is totally un-natural. so we are using exogenous hormones to create an environment that is totally un-natural and will thus lead to super compensation.

your bodies number one job is to survive. it does not want to go hypo, pass out, and die. its going to do something completely un-natural, its going to take all that insulin and all that glucose in your blood and "super compensate". your blood is going to be filled with all that insulin and glucose and nutrition, and your working out all that blood is going to be flowing to your muscles. they don't have to be already broken down to require blood and nutrients. fuck your muscles will take in the nutrition and insulin just so you don't pass out and die.
does it normally do this naturally . NO. but this is why we have un-natural 300+ pound bodybuilders

thats not the greatest or most detailed response. but my point is that taking nutrition and insulin pre-workout is going to unnaturally 'force' blood and nutrients into muscle and your ultimately going to grow and recover from doing this. again your taking advantage of the one way direct trip of blood flow into muscles.

also, the anabolics enhance and aide in this process, increase insulin sensitivity and allow you to store more nutrients and glycogen into muscle cells then is normally or naturally possible

also, keep in mind that 'breaking down' muscle fibers is only ONE facet of hypertrophy . another (often unknown) direct cause of muscular hypertrophy is metabolites. When your muscles get flooded with blood and all the metabolites that come with it and things like lactic acid, this is another form of 'stress' on the muscle that will cause it to adapt and grow. even though you may not break down any actual tissue, just the metabolite stress itself will cause a response.

[Obs]

Obs I completely get what your saying. and believe the general premise is true, BUT, its mainly true for 'natural' bodybuilding.

just like some really smart people in the industry will say that fasted cardio does not make any difference then fed cardio its all about calories in vs calories out. They may be correct, BUT why does pretty much every pro utilize fasted cardio for prep? because every pro is on gear. those of us on gear play by much different rules then every one else.. heck most the drugs that we take to lose body fat simply work way better in a fasted state.
so to tell an enhanced body builder to not utilize fasted cardio is telling him to waste his drugs.

in the fitness industry in general a lot of things are true and make sense. but a ton of things cross the line between natty and enhanced and so we got to take things in context.


natty's don't need to worry much about pre workout, intra workout, or post workout nutrition. they don't have any where near the hormonal environment and anabolic response that an enhanced guy does.
when I see a guy in my gym 'copying me' when I know he is natty, and he is carrying around his jug filled with carbs, amino acids, etc.. I kinda laugh to myself (not to be an asshole) cause I know as a natty he is not going to be able to put that to use and 'super compensate' .. I on the other hand have a hormonal environment and just injected 50mg of tren suspension, 10iu of insulin , 2iu of HGH, and swallowed 20mg of Dbol .. my body is in a state where it not only has to have that nutrition (other wise I'll go hypo and pass out) but it will make complete use of it.


SUPER COMPENSATION . if you were natty then what your saying is spot on. BUT your not. your body does not just naturally suddenly release 10iu of insulin into the blood stream, and it especially can't do this when your growth hormone levels are elevated. this is totally un-natural. so we are using exogenous hormones to create an environment that is totally un-natural and will thus lead to super compensation.

your bodies number one job is to survive. it does not want to go hypo, pass out, and die. its going to do something completely un-natural, its going to take all that insulin and all that glucose in your blood and "super compensate". your blood is going to be filled with all that insulin and glucose and nutrition, and your working out all that blood is going to be flowing to your muscles. they don't have to be already broken down to require blood and nutrients. fuck your muscles will take in the nutrition and insulin just so you don't pass out and die.
does it normally do this naturally . NO. but this is why we have un-natural 300+ pound bodybuilders

thats not the greatest or most detailed response. but my point is that taking nutrition and insulin pre-workout is going to unnaturally 'force' blood and nutrients into muscle and your ultimately going to grow and recover from doing this. again your taking advantage of the one way direct trip of blood flow into muscles.

also, the anabolics enhance and aide in this process, increase insulin sensitivity and allow you to store more nutrients and glycogen into muscle cells then is normally or naturally possible

also, keep in mind that 'breaking down' muscle fibers is only ONE facet of hypertrophy . another (often unknown) direct cause of muscular hypertrophy is metabolites. When your muscles get flooded with blood and all the metabolites that come with it and things like lactic acid, this is another form of 'stress' on the muscle that will cause it to adapt and grow. even though you may not break down any actual tissue, just the metabolite stress itself will cause a response.

Thank you for taking the time buddy! I will start utilizing pre and intra slin.

[GearHeaded]

Thank you for taking the time buddy! I will start utilizing pre and intra slin.

be sure to use a fast acting carb drink like carbolize or karbolyn. . you really don't want to have to eat carbs while you train, especially if your going heavy and getting nauseated . carb drinks are easy to digest

[Iron Frenchie]

Without using HGH with slin and not being able to time the IGF-1 spikes what type of insulin would you use?

[Quester]

While I am not endorsing insulin use in non-diabetics there are some bits of info to add:
Most important:
fortunately, insulin can be purchased from a pharmacy, without a prescription. Regular insulin (Humulin R, Novolin R)can be taken instead of rapid acting, just take it earlier.
And, NPH (Humulin N, Novolin N) can be used instead of long-acting.
Both are cheap. Why not get an FDA inspected product from a FDA inspected source?

[GearHeaded]

Without using HGH with slin and not being able to time the IGF-1 spikes what type of insulin would you use?

a fast acting insulin timed around the workout, pre and post. without HGH or IGF spikes, you'll still get the benefits of nutrient partitioning and uptake of glycogen and amino acids into the muscle cells which will promote anabolism and recovery. you'll need to add in intra workout nutrition to accomplish this though.

Novalin R works just fine for this. can be purchased OTC for cheap

[GearHeaded]

While I am not endorsing insulin use in non-diabetics there are some bits of info to add:
Most important:
fortunately, insulin can be purchased from a pharmacy, without a prescription. Regular insulin (Humulin R, Novolin R)can be taken instead of rapid acting, just take it earlier.
And, NPH (Humulin N, Novolin N) can be used instead of long-acting.
Both are cheap. Why not get an FDA inspected product from a FDA inspected source?

I advise most guys just go to walmart and buy Novalin R for $25. Its fast acting enough and very easy to time. 3 years of insulin use with it and up to 30iu per day and I've only went hypo once.

[Obs]

I advise most guys just go to walmart and buy Novalin R for $25. Its fast acting enough and very easy to time. 3 years of insulin use with it and up to 30iu per day and I've only went hypo once.

On that note I am running novo script and about died every 5 minutes lol!

[GearHeaded]

On that note I am running novo script and about died every 5 minutes lol!

whats your fasting blood sugar normally run ? I'm guessing its pretty low and your pretty insulin sensitive (which is a good thing for body composition, but makes timing insulin much more difficult)

[Quester]

How about Metformin? We learned about it in Pharm a few days ago and it would seem to have some BB application. I'll start a new thread if you want.

[GearHeaded]

How about Metformin? We learned about it in Pharm a few days ago and it would seem to have some BB application. I'll start a new thread if you want.

no worry about new thread, its context fits here. I take 500-1000mg of Metformin daily. I have clients that only take Metformin on their high carb re-feed days. its really person and situational dependent . but yes it most definitely has use in not only bodybuilding, but anti aging purposes as well

[Obs]

whats your fasting blood sugar normally run ? I'm guessing its pretty low and your pretty insulin sensitive (which is a good thing for body composition, but makes timing insulin much more difficult)

Yes I am sensitive. I cut back to ten iu x2 per day.
Fasted is about 70 ng/dl.
Also I have since understood the feeling of hypo well enough to know that at odd times I have gone very close naturally at times on aas.

[GearHeaded]

Yes I am sensitive. I cut back to ten iu x2 per day.
Fasted is about 70 ng/dl.
Also I have since understood the feeling of hypo well enough to know that at odd times I have gone very close naturally at times on aas.

I'm the opposite , but thats cause of all the HGH and GH peptides I take.. so my blood sugar never drops to low and the starting point is much higher (sometimes I'll take 5iu of slin with no carbs at all just to drive by blood sugar down)

^. just an observation for all you readers of this thread and some take home knowledge to think about. HGH and insulin together can manipulate many diff variables in the body (some healthy and some not so healthy .. some better for mass, some better for fat burning etc)

[Obs]

I'm the opposite , but thats cause of all the HGH and GH peptides I take.. so my blood sugar never drops to low and the starting point is much higher (sometimes I'll take 5iu of slin with no carbs at all just to drive by blood sugar down)

^. just an observation for all you readers of this thread and some take home knowledge to think about. HGH and insulin together can manipulate many diff variables in the body (some healthy and some not so healthy .. some better for mass, some better for fat burning etc)

I have shot 25iu with huge meals and had no ill effects but the other day I had a bad situation with 20iu. I got on the road and felt it start and was 30 minutes from carbs. Ran into mcdonalds drenched in sweat about to fall down threw $40 on the counter and grabbed a cup then ran to soda fountain.

I made it ok though. I am to tough to die just because my blood lacks glucose lol

[GearHeaded]

I have shot 25iu with huge meals and had no ill effects but the other day I had a bad situation with 20iu. I got on the road and felt it start and was 30 minutes from carbs. Ran into mcdonalds drenched in sweat about to fall down threw $40 on the counter and grabbed a cup then ran to soda fountain.

I made it ok though. I am to tough to die just because my blood lacks glucose lol

I'll throw and interesting bit of science out here just for grins.. if you were on Keto and you were in Ketosis and you injecting 20iu of slin and could not get to carbs , you would not die. you would not go into coma.. nothing. cause your brain is not dependent on glucose and is "dual fuel'' at that time and can run on both ketone and carbs.. however if your brain runs on carbs only, and you over do the slin, it can't suddenly make Ketones as a secondary fuel source, so it shuts down and goes into a coma.

having said that.. who the shit cares. no one gets big on Ketones!

[Obs]

I'll throw and interesting bit of science out here just for grins.. if you were on Keto and you were in Ketosis and you injecting 20iu of slin and could not get to carbs , you would not die. you would not go into coma.. nothing. cause your brain is not dependent on glucose and is "dual fuel'' at that time and can run on both ketone and carbs.. however if your brain runs on carbs only, and you over do the slin, it can't suddenly make Ketones as a secondary fuel source, so it shuts down and goes into a coma.

having said that.. who the shit cares. no one gets big on Ketones!

I heard you say that before it is amazing to me the body is capable of whatever it is conditioned to do

[kelkel]

Yes I am sensitive.

Now that's a load of crap.

[Obs]

Now that's a load of crap.

I gotta be me.

[Couchlockd]

gh.

can you give me a crash course on metformin regarding fat loss/fat storage and what it does for muscle growth?

i have access to literally dozens of pharmacy count bottles (ones used to dispense prescriptions) and wonder if it would be of benefit to try and implement it in,a cycle or for far loss.

[Razvan]

What about Novorapid? What acction time does it have? I kept looking but i can't find anything on it...

[GearHeaded]

gh.

can you give me a crash course on metformin regarding fat loss/fat storage and what it does for muscle growth?

i have access to literally dozens of pharmacy count bottles (ones used to dispense prescriptions) and wonder if it would be of benefit to try and implement it in,a cycle or for far loss.

well to put it simply.. Metformin just increases insulin sensitivity.
improvements in insulin sensitivity are from several mechanisms, including increased insulin receptor tyrosine kinase activity,, enhanced glycogen synthesis, and an increase in the recruitment and activity of GLUT4 glucose transporters.

how does increased insulin sensitivity help with body composition? Well your able to force more glucose into muscle cells instead of fat cells. this not only means lower body fat but also more muscle mass. because when insulin 'opens' a cell to receive glucose/glycogen along with that glycogen also is water, amino acids, creatine, and other nutrients that are 'anabolic ' and will build muscle. the more glycogen that goes to muscle, the more overall muscle you will be able to build.

[GearHeaded]

What about Novorapid? What acction time does it have? I kept looking but i can't find anything on it...

its a "rapid" acting based insulin . which means its onset is going to be 20-30 mins. your going to want to inject it and then take in your carbs very soon after . it will last for about 2 hours

[Quester]

Metformin also decreases glucose production in the liver. Side effects include weight loss and decreased absorption of B-12 and folic acid.

[GearHeaded]

Metformin also decreases glucose production in the liver. Side effects include weight loss and decreased absorption of B-12 and folic acid.

just to clarify for the readers of this thread.. whats in bold is NOT classified as a negative side effect of metformin, its an actual mechanism of action by the drug to help lower blood sugar levels (ie., for most people with high blood sugars thats a benefit and provides health and anti aging benefits)

limiting glucose production in the liver and gluconeogeneis (converting protein to sugar) is beneficial to a majority of people and why metfromin is prescribed to pre diabetics and for anti aging

should be obvious why thats beneficial for bodybuilding as well

[Wintermaul]

Nice post and info! I hope you can answer some more questions on the subject. Because of the fake GH around its hard to get GH where i am, but fast-acting insulin is easy to get, even if its not OTC in my country. You still think there is alot to benefit from insulin + AAS, or is it way better if i have GH too?
Milos has preached about insulin-use and claim his athletes use 10-20 iu before workout with a lot of carbs. How much iu is really needed to get a good benefit? Is there a big difference in muscle-building from 5 to 10 iu for example, yet 10 to 20iu?
I was thinking about 5iu novorapid like 15min before workout with shake of 50grams of carbs (and maybe 20g prot) with that as im afraid to add fat if i overdo this. You think that will be enough to yield some good muscle for 4-6weeks? Or do i need 10iu before workout and another dose after workout? Could you please elaborate on that? My stats are 114kg, 189cm, bf around 11%

[GearHeaded]

Nice post and info! I hope you can answer some more questions on the subject. Because of the fake GH around its hard to get GH where i am, but fast-acting insulin is easy to get, even if its not OTC in my country. You still think there is alot to benefit from insulin + AAS, or is it way better if i have GH too?
Milos has preached about insulin-use and claim his athletes use 10-20 iu before workout with a lot of carbs. How much iu is really needed to get a good benefit? Is there a big difference in muscle-building from 5 to 10 iu for example, yet 10 to 20iu?
I was thinking about 5iu novorapid like 15min before workout with shake of 50grams of carbs (and maybe 20g prot) with that as im afraid to add fat if i overdo this. You think that will be enough to yield some good muscle for 4-6weeks? Or do i need 10iu before workout and another dose after workout? Could you please elaborate on that? My stats are 114kg, 189cm, bf around 11%

great questions brother!

ok, no HGH use is absolutely not necessary for insulin use in body building. however, I will say that insulin use is highly recommended for those using high dosages of HGH (or at least using Metformin). hope that makes sense.. the thing is insulin can be very anabolic all on its own and does not need HGH. however the use of HGH will likely cause you to run elevated blood sugars and the use of insulin will be beneficial (also on a side note, the use of DNP definitely warrants the use of insulin, you really should not be running DNP without insulin, as DNP causes your pancreas to stop producing endogenous insulin).
the benefit to running HGH and insulin together is that you get a synergistic effect that ends up causing the liver to produce more IGF.

I have different clients on different protocols depending on their goals. I even have some clients using insulin for cutting (yes it has its purpose even in a cut). but for massing and adding more muscle and muscle fullness I generally go with the Milos style protocol. 10iu of insulin pre workout, then sipping on 50g of high molecular weight carbohydrates during the workout, that carb drink should also contain 10-20g of EAAs, and 10g of creatine.

Why do I recommend this?

well our blood is what carries nutrients and delivers them into cells. insulin is essentially a 'key' that is able to unlock and open up a cell so that it can take in nutrients and grow. most of the time during the day and night we have very little blood flow directly into muscle. BUT when we workout we get up to 70% of all our blood flowing into the muscles that we are training... well again blood carries all the nutrients we need.
so the best time to have lots of insulin , again the key that opens the cell, and lots of muscle building nutrients like glycogen, water, creatine, amino acids, in the blood stream is when your working out and all the blood and nutrients is able to be delivered to the cell.
so thats why we take insulin pre-workout and provide our bodies with glucose and aminos and creatine.

then 30 mins after the workout for recovery, take another 10iu of insulin with 30-40g of whey isolate and more carbs in the form of white rice or white bagel (fast digesting carbs)..
then 1.5 hours later have a whole food meal containing lean protein and carbs (NO fats), so say chicken and rice. the reason for this is because you'll likely get a secondary spike in insulin levels as the insulin (like novalin r) is designed to start working in 20-30 mins after injection but will have a secondary peak about 1.5-2 hours later.

thats a basic protocol that works great and will fill you out, help you grow, and help you recover.

please note that the 10iu dosage is just a 'number'.. each individual is different. some guys I have only running 5iu, some guys I have running 15iu. just depends. also depends on if we are running insulin at other times of the day as well and not just around the workout. it also depends on how insulin sensitive you are, and I generally recommend using a glucose meter and tracking blood sugars at diff times during the day to see where your at and then using insulin accordingly.. I personally take my blood sugar reading before I workout, and use that to decide my dosage of insulin. sometimes its 10iu, sometimes its 8 or sometimes its 15,, just depends.


also you'll want to run insulin for more then just 4 weeks. to get the growth and the recovery benefits its going to take some time. you will however notice much better pumps and muscle fullness fairly soon. you can easily add 10 pounds of lean body mass just by utilizing the above insulin protocol.

hope that helps you out brother, let me know if you have any other questions