ANAVAR Cycle (for those interested)

**BJJ** · 10-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Has anyone ever had a direct experience to validate or invalidate some of the above written statements?

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by BJJ

Has anyone ever had a direct experience to validate or invalidate some of the above written statements?

Anavar PCT
Starting Anavar Only Cycle at 40mgs?

Read some my discussion in this thread for an idea as to WHY it is a good idea to have a PCT when running an Anavar only cycle.

-WAR

**ythrashin** · 10-07-2009, 08:10 PM

All these bridging threads are getting to be a joke. There is no such thing as a bridge, with any AAS, which will be both effective at maintaining AAS induced muscle growth and simultaneously allow full HPTA recovery.

See the following studies with Anavar at 2.5mg/day and it's effect on HPTA.

MaxRep

__________________________________________________ ________________

1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.

The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG.

Endocrine Unit, Middlesex Hospital, London, UK.

OBJECTIVE: We studied the effects of oxandrolone on serum concentrations of LH, FSH, testosterone , GH, SHBG, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
DESIGN: Ten boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty, mean age 13.8 years (range 12.4-15.5) were studied. Twenty-four-hour serum concentration profiles of GH, LH and FSH were constructed by drawing blood samples at 20-minute intervals. Three study occasions over a period of 6 months were chosen to assess hormone concentrations before, during and 6 weeks after a 3-month course of oxandrolone (2.5 mg once daily) therapy.
RESULTS: Growth velocity increased during oxandrolone treatment and stayed higher after therapy (pre 3.9 +/- 0.5; on 6.3 +/- 0.8; post 6.4 +/- 0.9 cm/year (mean +/- SEM) two way ANOVA, F = 5.3, P = 0.02). Oxandrolone had androgenic effects, suppressing mean serum LH concentrations from 1.7 +/- 0.3 to 1.1 +/- 0.2 U/I and serum testosterone concentrations from 1.9 +/- 0.6 to 0.8 +/- 0.1 nmol/l. SHBG concentrations were also reduced from 130.9 +/- 14.6 to 30.7 +/- 7.3 nmol/l. Serum GH concentration fell slightly from 5.9 +/- 0.6 to 4.8 +/- 0.5 mU/l. After cessation of treatment, there was a significant 'rebound' in mean 24-hour serum LH (2.6 U/l +/- 0.4) and testosterone concentrations (3.2 +/- 0.9 nmol/l) but no change in serum GH concentrations. SHBG values also rose but not to the same extent as those observed before therapy (82.0 +/- 8.4 nmol/l). There were no statistically significant differences in serum concentrations of FSH, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin over the study period. In a stepwise multiple regression analysis of factors that might influence the growth rate observed, the 24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration and the treatment (on or off) with oxandrolone were the main influences. The relationship was described by the equation Height velocity = 0.69 (24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration)+1.70 (treatment regimen)+3.37 (adjusted R2 = 0.35, F = 8.39, P = 0.001).
CONCLUSIONS: Oxandrolone has an androgenic action as shown by changes in serum LH, testosterone and SHBG concentrations and by the lack of effect on FSH. No effect of oxandrolone on the GH axis was documented. We suggest that the growth promoting effects of oxandrolone are related in part to the mild androgenic effects of the steroid and the growth acceleration following oxandrolone withdrawal may reflect increasing total serum testosterone concentrations and decreasing levels of SHBG and progress in puberty.

PMID: 8319371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16.

Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial.
PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures.
RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

**ythrashin** · 10-07-2009, 08:15 PM

I think the LH rebound effect is also a MYTH. Perhaps at very low dosages under 5mg... But haven't found any concrete evidence...

Anyone??

**spooledup** · 10-07-2009, 10:34 PM

Those studies have been posted/debated and are done on boys with dysfunctional endocrine systems. We need tests on adult males with healthy endocrine systems.

Secondly, a dose of 2.5mg ox ED and 50mg test monthly are nowhere near an equal comparison. There is no way they can get stable blood levels of test by injecting 50mg once a month, the test will be clear of their system for a very large part of the month.

Nevertheless, in the first test the study concludes oxandrolone only suppressed LH by less than 40% of the normal range. Testosterone is suppressed a bit more but not near castration levels as applying a stable regimen of exogenous testosterone would do. But we'll never know because the dumbass research conductors didn't know how to use the test.

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by spooledup

Those studies have been posted/debated and are done on boys with dysfunctional endocrine systems. We need tests on adult males with healthy endocrine systems.

I shall be a "human guinea pig" then...

**BJJ** · 10-08-2009, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Anavar PCT
Starting Anavar Only Cycle at 40mgs?

Read some my discussion in this thread for an idea as to WHY it is a good idea to have a PCT when running an Anavar only cycle.

-WAR

Thank you, very interesting.
Just hoping to get to the right PCT for my genetics.

**im9boss** · 11-12-2009, 11:55 AM

ok so this may be a dumb question but im a newbie. Can you tell me why your doing PCT with var? i've read PCT is unecessary with var?

**BJJ** · 11-12-2009, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by im9boss

ok so this may be a dumb question but im a newbie. Can you tell me why your doing PCT with var? i've read PCT is unecessary with var?

Check the first page of this thread, post 2.
I just finished updating it, you can easily see the differences occurred in some of my values related to testosterone and its endogenous production.

A pct is required to help the organism to raise back test ttl, test free and shbg, mostly but not only. Without a proper pct, you may obtain anyway (or may not) those values back but in a longer period of time but, probably, losing what accomplished in terms of lean mass and strength.

In my experience, whoever told you pct with var is not required, gave you a wrong information.

**kaigab** · 11-14-2009, 03:43 AM

Very interesting thread. It should be in pubmed even if i am biased as italian as well

Question: any update on blood work and final results?

I am still suprised of LH and FSH beeing in ok range while test beeing down to almost zero.

**BJJ** · 11-14-2009, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by kaigab

Very interesting thread. It should be in pubmed even if i am biased as italian as well

Question: any update on blood work and final results?

I am still suprised of LH and FSH beeing in ok range while test beeing down to almost zero.

Thanks...

Not only blood work but also sperm which I took two days ago and blood, today.
Next Tuesday my cycle will be over and from Wednesday I start the pct.
So, next Tuesday I will post the values and my final conclusion on the "bulking" period.

Regarding LH and FSH, I was surprised too!
Perhaps mesterolone helped? I'll see soon.