Bringing it to the next level! 12 week Prop/var cycle. DONE RIGHT!

[BobTheBodyBuilder]

Whats your shoulder routine look like?

[ANIMAL]

Whats your shoulder routine look like?

Rough estimates on weights. I have a lot of different shoulder exercises, it's one of my favorite muscles to hit in the gym. Here is what could be one day of shoulders for me.

This is not printed anywhere, this is MY routine that I came up with. Everything I do is what I made up. I've never done anything from online. I listen to my body and as long as I keep growing, then I keep doing it. If I hit a plateau, I change it up and focus on another movement. The body is a blank canvas, you create lines and muscle where you want them.


The reps are there just for a minimum I reach. I usually will pump out 2-3 more after I can't go anymore, so I guess you can say I go to fail on almost every set.

Military Press on Smith machine
50lb x 15 (warm up)
90lb x 15
120lb x 12
140lb x 10
160lb x 8
90lb x fail

Up Right Rows with easy bar
20lb x 15
40lb x 10
60lb x 10
70lb x 8
80lb x 6
40lb x fail

Seated dumbbell Military press
40lb x 10
50lb x 10
60lb x 8
65lb x 6
75lb x fail

Seated dumbbell side raises or Standing Front Raises
10lb x fail
15lb x fail
20lb x fail
20lb x fail
25lb x fail

Last exercise 21's (3 sets)
Standing 3/4 Bent over side raises
25lb x 7
20lb x 7
15lb x

[ANIMAL]

I have been on the AI @ 25mg for a few days with no sign of getting rid of gyno, so I will be starting Letro this week until it's gone.

Week 4 starts today with great results, I'm really starting to feel the unlimited amount of strength and push through all my workouts. I did a pyramid lift with squats yesterday. I ramped up to 305lbs x 3 on my 7th set which I was very happy with. Tomorrow is back day and I am not leaving until I do a clean/perfect 405 dead lift.

Was going to start HCG today but with the gyno I am going to hold off until it is gone.

[ANIMAL]

Military press 225 x 3 on 5th set last night. I had trouble getting 185 up for 1 last week. BOULDER SHOULDERS coming through! Doing that has given me all the confidence in the world to rip 405 clean on dead lift tonight.

Sides: Start of gyno, slight aggression, zero patience, irritable and random times of being horny throughout the day just doing paper work. Must be how the pen glides across the paper.

[ANIMAL]

[MickeyKnox]

looking good bro. just wondering why you wouldnt use nolva instead of letro to attack that infant gyno symptom?

[ANIMAL]

looking good bro. just wondering why you wouldnt use nolva instead of letro to attack that infant gyno symptom?

Because nolvadex will do nothing to reverse gyno symptons. Letro is the most powerful AI you can use and will inhibit 98%+ of estrogen using a low dose.

Everything you need to know about letro and reversing gyno: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UD7MndBWpHM

[stpete]

Keep up the good work!

[MickeyKnox]

Because nolvadex will do nothing to reverse gyno symptons. Letro is the most powerful AI you can use and will inhibit 98%+ of estrogen using a low dose.

Everything you need to know about letro and reversing gyno: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UD7MndBWpHM

nolva does nothing to reduce gyno?? ok..good luck bro.....careful with that letro.

[ANIMAL]

nolva does nothing to reduce gyno?? ok..good luck bro.....careful with that letro.

If you have light to shed on the subject, please shine away. I've read nothing that said to use nolva to reverse gyno. In the past when I had gyno symptons I did the ramp up and ramp down of letro and it worked.

I'm always open to learn something new with proof/documentation to back up the claim.

I'm already at 25mg of stane for a few days and it has done nothing to reverse the gyno.

Edit: Been reading more and it's 50/50 on which to use. It's not a serious case and of course I rather not use letro if I don't have to. Still unsure about the nolva though.

[ANIMAL]

What I gathered from my reading:

After researching some more, if gyno is just starting to occur, Nolvadex can be used to stop further estrogen from attaching itself to the receptors thus making your gyno worse... but will your body recover and fight the gyno if no more is able to get in there?

Nolvadex blocks receptors, so it prevents gyno from occurring. Receptors are like field goal posts. Estrogen gets in there which causes gyno. So is continuing estrogen fitting into the goal causing gyno or is the estrogen that got in there already causing it? Letro WILL kill the estrogen, nolva will block additional estrogen from getting in. Will my body be able to recover on its own if I just block any more estrogen from going in? Or do I need to attack and kill the estrogen?

Currently on an AI of Exemestane. Started at 12.5mg ED, gyno got worse so I upped it to 18mg and now 25mg ED. It's not getting worse, but it's also not going anywhere.

Need to start HCG as well, but won't start it with the gyno symptons because it will make it worse.

Anyone have experience with this? Please only answer if you know what you're talking about. Anyone can read something on the net and offer information.

[Scabtree]

Man you should write a cookbook/nutrition guide. Those pre-portioned meals are a great idea;

[ichad]

Fantastic log. I personally I real impressed with the time you took to plan and gain knowledge. I'm really interested in the diet as I'm trying to lose bf before I cycle. Did you ever increase your diet? Most guys seem to be really eating alot more. Your 1500 cals. Are the lowest I've seen so far. Yet you still appear to be adding LBM. I'm jealous. Lol. Great work. Hope the gyno issue resolves soon. I'm sure it will. You ever posting measurements?

[ANIMAL]

Keep up the good work!

Thank you! I've been following your thread as well!

Man you should write a cookbook/nutrition guide. Those pre-portioned meals are a great idea;

It's all in the preparation!

Fantastic log. I personally I real impressed with the time you took to plan and gain knowledge. I'm really interested in the diet as I'm trying to lose bf before I cycle. Did you ever increase your diet? Most guys seem to be really eating alot more. Your 1500 cals. Are the lowest I've seen so far. Yet you still appear to be adding LBM. I'm jealous. Lol. Great work. Hope the gyno issue resolves soon. I'm sure it will. You ever posting measurements?

Don't forget, 1500 is my moderate workout days. I am currently doing a carb cycle where I re-feed my body with ~300g carbs on one day which would bump my calorie intake that day to around 2,100-2,200. All starts with your BMR to find your TDEE. You start from there adding or minus whether you want to lose BF or put on mass.

I have upped my protein intake from 170g to 190g (mostly coming in my PWO and PPWO meals) and my fats from 24g to 29g. I've kept my carbs the same at 150g on MOD days, 0g starchy carbs on off days and ~300g on re-feed days. By doing this, I utilize carbs as energy and rebuilding only, nothing is stored.

I was gaining muscle without any gear doing the above carb cycle. It would only happen faster with gear. You have to understand your body and know the changes good/bad when you do something. I did diets starting all the way up to 2,500 calories/day. Right now to lose BF and gain LBM carb cycling works best for me. What you do throughout the day also plays a role in finding what diet works for your body. I have a desk job, so I'm sitting all day.

I keep forgetting to do measurements. I will this weekend.

[ANIMAL]

Started 40mg of Tamox today along with 25mg of stane to get sides of gyno under control. Holding off on HCG until it goes away.

[ANIMAL]

Carb refeed day diet, no workout:

Meal 1
2 eggs
2 egg whites
.5 cup rolled oats
2 pieces ezekial bread

Meal 2
3 oz grilled chicken
.5 cup brown rice

Meal 3
3 oz grilled chicken
.5 cup brown rice

Meal 4
3 oz grilled chicken
200g sweet potato

Meal 5
3.625 oz grilled chicken
250g sweet potato

Meal 6
1.5 scoop Peanut Butter Cookie protizyme protein
.75 cup rolled oats

Total: 2,100 calories/275g carbs/30g fat/185g protein

I never add the calroies/carbs from vegetables, but they are in every meal besides breakfast and meal 6 today. Only calculate the starchy carbs.

[ANIMAL]

Starting tomorrow I will be upping my MODERATE workout days from 1,500 calories to 1,800 calories. This will increase all other days (Off, cardio only, re-feed) as well.

[stpete]

Thank you! I've been following your thread as well!



It's all in the preparation!



Don't forget, 1500 is my moderate workout days. I am currently doing a carb cycle where I re-feed my body with ~300g carbs on one day which would bump my calorie intake that day to around 2,100-2,200. All starts with your BMR to find your TDEE. You start from there adding or minus whether you want to lose BF or put on mass.

I have upped my protein intake from 170g to 190g (mostly coming in my PWO and PPWO meals) and my fats from 24g to 29g. I've kept my carbs the same at 150g on MOD days, 0g starchy carbs on off days and ~300g on re-feed days. By doing this, I utilize carbs as energy and rebuilding only, nothing is stored.

I was gaining muscle without any gear doing the above carb cycle. It would only happen faster with gear. You have to understand your body and know the changes good/bad when you do something. I did diets starting all the way up to 2,500 calories/day. Right now to lose BF and gain LBM carb cycling works best for me. What you do throughout the day also plays a role in finding what diet works for your body. I have a desk job, so I'm sitting all day.

I keep forgetting to do measurements. I will this weekend.

^^^^Last paragraph says it all. And if you're really good, you can stay relatively lean w/minimal cardio. And that's always been my goal. Spend as little time as possible on the treadmill! haha..

[ANIMAL]

Week 5 started this week and OH BOY is all I can say. Gyno is 95% gone! Thanks to mickeyknox, razor and swifto on the advice for doing the nolva and stane.

Squatted 315 for 4 tonight, was impressed with myself. Dead lifted 405 a few days ago and, military press 225 for 4 and flat bench has gone up to 295. Been hitting calves every 2-3 days and they are really starting to grow.

I've also upped test to 600mg/week from 400mg. Bumping my calories on lift days to 1,800 has really improved my lifts. Tomorrow I'm going to take off with no carbs and refeed on Friday with 325g carbs.

Zero side effects besides the gyno that was my fault for waiting until week 4 to start the stane. I'm prone to getting gyno and totally disregarded it. Thankfully that's taken care of. I will be starting HCG on Monday at 500iu 2x/week for 2 weeks on and off up until PCT then I will do a load like I explained in one of my earlier posts.

[MickeyKnox]

right on man! glad to hear positive results!

[stpete]

Good to hear. Keep up the good work.

[ANIMAL]

Lowered the nolva to 20mg, will stay at that dose for 1 week. Lowering the stane to 12.5mg until PCT.

Re-feed today at 325g carbs. I switch up my Saturday workouts every week as after a carb load will be my best workout. Tomorrow is shoulders/tri.

I normally have oily skin but it's starting to get really bad now. Going to start washing my face with alcohol lol

[Trying-Hard]

Nice bro, good to hear you got gyno taken care of. Can you quickly explain the steps you took to get rid of it? What did you take and how did you dose it?

How are the wheels? Your upper body is awesome, do the wheels look pretty good?

[ANIMAL]

Nice bro, good to hear you got gyno taken care of. Can you quickly explain the steps you took to get rid of it? What did you take and how did you dose it?

How are the wheels? Your upper body is awesome, do the wheels look pretty good?

I'll take some pictures of legs this weekend for sure!

Gyno protocol:
Exemestane 25mg ED for 1 week
Nolva 40mg ED for 1 week

Dropping Nolva to 20mg ED for 1 week, then 10mg ED through PCT.
Dropping Exemestane to 12.5mg ED until PCT

[havanakid]

Hey ANIMAL looking great brother.I will be following your journey as well.Im starting my first cycle soon and theres a lot to learn from guys like you that post daily updates and follow up pics.Good knowledge on nutrition as well.Its good to see someone young with a good head on their shoulders doing things correctly.Good luck and keep it up bud!!!

[ANIMAL]

Hey ANIMAL looking great brother.I will be following your journey as well.Im starting my first cycle soon and theres a lot to learn from guys like you that post daily updates and follow up pics.Good knowledge on nutrition as well.Its good to see someone young with a good head on their shoulders doing things correctly.Good luck and keep it up bud!!!

Thanks man! Big reason why I'm so into doing the log is helping others because I had no one help me years ago when I wish I did.

A lot of people don't think nutrition plays that big of a role in body building, but fact is I think it's more important then time spent in the gym or money spent on gear. A lot of people say they hit a "plateau" and turn to gear to get through it and never look at their diet. Typical response is "my diet is on point, my lifting is on point... I must have hit my bodies natural max." Shake my head to those thick headed people. Always look within before you start reaching out to try gear. Because once you're off that gear, you WILL lose it all.

[ANIMAL]

Thinking about increasing my daily calorie intake to 2,000 on workout days. I've been stuck with 315 squat, 275 bench and 405 deadlift for 2 weeks now, I feel as though on week 6 I should be able to increase the weight. I am however doing those numbers on my last set (usually doing a total of 5-7 sets on each). Not trying to do 1 hit maxes, so that has kept me sane in regards to the numbers.

Only sides I am experiencing is edgy and short temper.

Started 500iu HCG last night and already feel it downstairs. I wasn't having any issues in the bedroom or lack of libido so I'm curious to see how I feel after a week of HCG.

Increasing my cycle from 12 to 14 weeks and I'm not sure if I mentioned that I've upped my Test from 400mg/week to 600mg/week.

[Trying-Hard]

I feel as though on week 6 I should be able to increase the weight. .

That sounds awfuly familiar...lol. Now you see where I was coming from in my post. I am like WTF!

Here is hoping for the both of us to start seeing some substantial strength gains in the next several week...

I mean if I don't see it in week 7 and 8, then there is something wrong. I am getting blood work next week and I will share results.

[ANIMAL]

Starting tomorrow I will be bumping up my workout calories to 2,000 with a 225g protein/200g carbs/33g fat split. I started at 1,500 calories and have been increasing by 200 when I feel like I'm a little tired and stuck. Reason why I'm doing it by 200 increments is because I do not want to add any extra fat/storage to my body. I have been slacking lately with the cardio because I am so exhausted after my workouts, which is fine, but I want to start doing some more HIIT on the treadmill or stair master starting this upcoming week, which would be numero 7.

I plan to get my calorie numbers up to around 2,900 by the time I'm done with the cycle, in which I will keep through PCT to start my bulk. Hopefully by doing this, I will keep all the muscle I have added and I won't go down in any weight in the gym. Will help with the mental aspect of being "weaker" after coming off the cycle.

I've heard this discussion over and over as far as how long you should wait to do another cycle. Many say take the length of the cycle + pct to be off and then you can jump back on, others say you stay off for as long as the cycle was. Anyone care to chime in? I'd like to start planing my next cycle with compounds I want to use and goals I am setting.

Knee wraps ordered this week because they were starting to hurt squatting 315 and I'd like to bust out more then 3-4 reps of 315 this upcoming week.

I've helped so many people achieve their goals whether it be through diet advice, confidence building or at the gym training and as it is very rewarding, how do I bring myself to the next level? I'm at the point where I need someone who is more educated, focused and motivated like myself, next to me at the gym and I just don't have that. It's very frustrating to not be able to bring myself to the next level whether it be for spots or mental focus/encouragement. I feel like I have all my T's crossed and my i's dotted where they need to be. This is not a "I can't" post, because I know I can... just want MORE! Anyone else going through this?

[havanakid]

Starting tomorrow I will be bumping up my workout calories to 2,000 with a 225g protein/200g carbs/33g fat split. I started at 1,500 calories and have been increasing by 200 when I feel like I'm a little tired and stuck. Reason why I'm doing it by 200 increments is because I do not want to add any extra fat/storage to my body. I have been slacking lately with the cardio because I am so exhausted after my workouts, which is fine, but I want to start doing some more HIIT on the treadmill or stair master starting this upcoming week, which would be numero 7.

I plan to get my calorie numbers up to around 2,900 by the time I'm done with the cycle, in which I will keep through PCT to start my bulk. Hopefully by doing this, I will keep all the muscle I have added and I won't go down in any weight in the gym. Will help with the mental aspect of being "weaker" after coming off the cycle.

I've heard this discussion over and over as far as how long you should wait to do another cycle. Many say take the length of the cycle + pct to be off and then you can jump back on, others say you stay off for as long as the cycle was. Anyone care to chime in? I'd like to start planing my next cycle with compounds I want to use and goals I am setting.

Knee wraps ordered this week because they were starting to hurt squatting 315 and I'd like to bust out more then 3-4 reps of 315 this upcoming week.

I've helped so many people achieve their goals whether it be through diet advice, confidence building or at the gym training and as it is very rewarding, how do I bring myself to the next level? I'm at the point where I need someone who is more educated, focused and motivated like myself, next to me at the gym and I just don't have that. It's very frustrating to not be able to bring myself to the next level whether it be for spots or mental focus/encouragement. I feel like I have all my T's crossed and my i's dotted where they need to be. This is not a "I can't" post, because I know I can... just want MORE! Anyone else going through this?

You gotta see if theres a good buddy or family member that can at least hit the dungeon with you a couple times per week especially when doing chest,squats,etc..I just started my cycle this week and luckily my buddy from work ended his membership at his old gym and is now coming with me to Gold"s.Its extremely beneficial to have a spotter so you can feel comfortable when you got heavy weights on you.Hopefully you find a way hat helps you push it to the limit the way that you want to.I like what youre doing to the diet.I think the extra calories are gonna make you feel stronger and not as weak especially when youre trying to get thru the workout AND the cardio which is not an easy thing.Keep it up bro you'll get there.Hopefully someone will chime in about continuing your cycle and not having to wait as long cause I would also like to do a cutting cycle shortly after my bulking cycle is finished.Take care my man.

[fit2bOld]

I thought i was doing a good job eating and training now I'm not so sure....LOL keep it going looking awesome

[ANIMAL]

Let the games begin! Can't explain how great I feel. Did back tonight and I had the same energy and strength from start to finish. I did deads on my second lift and everything went up feathers. Was determined to cleanly do 405 without hesitation and I did on my 5th set. I ended my workout with wide grip lat pull downs and easily did 205 for 8 on my 5th set.

I don't feel the HCG kicking in yet, I might be thinking about it too much as I have a lot of my mind as of late.

I will 100% get full pictures of front, back, legs this weekend. The 2,000 calories on lift days is perfect right now. I weighed in tonight at 167.

[ichad]

Good to hear. Glad your feeling better.

[havanakid]

Let the games begin! Can't explain how great I feel. Did back tonight and I had the same energy and strength from start to finish. I did deads on my second lift and everything went up feathers. Was determined to cleanly do 405 without hesitation and I did on my 5th set. I ended my workout with wide grip lat pull downs and easily did 205 for 8 on my 5th set.

I don't feel the HCG kicking in yet, I might be thinking about it too much as I have a lot of my mind as of late.

I will 100% get full pictures of front, back, legs this weekend. The 2,000 calories on lift days is perfect right now. I weighed in tonight at 167.

Sure is nice to have that start to finish energy brother IM telling you.Glad to see you got the calories dialed in and fast into your cycle.Looking forward to new pics.Keep up the hard work!!

[ANIMAL]

Week 8 and feeling great! Only problem is I have ZERO sex drive. That doesn't mean I can't get hard or get it up, I just have no interest what so ever. Any thoughts? I don't have any gyno, I've dropped the nolvadex to 10mg/day and the Stane to 10mg EOD. I have a lot of energy and my workouts are fantastic. Just miss being horny. Is this normal? Should I be taking viagra/cialis or anything? Once my girl and I start fooling around I'm fine, but to get into the mood is like a chore.

I've also stopped my carb cycle and I'm taking in 2,000 calories per day on both workout and non workout days. Going to see how my body reacts to it and go from there.

[ANIMAL]

I think the sex drive is all in my head, although I have been lethargic and unmotivated as of this past week. I have been working a lot and I think I'm just drained. I usually like to get into bed by 11 but I haven't been able to get to sleep until after 1230 every night for the past week, waking up at 630 every morning.

Last nights leg workout was a bust. Squatted 315 for 3 with no spot. After that I just wanted to leave as I was so tired.

I've stopped carb cycling and taking in 2,000 calories every day. I'll adjust from there.

Here is an up to date picture of my progress:



I feel as though I haven't made much size gains in the past month, but I am tighter, less body fat, yet lifting heavier. Kind of getting a little frustrated at the moment, but I just need to snap out of it.

[Trying-Hard]

You look great man. You have excellent genetics and great symmetry.

Even though your gains are more obvious from 7/31 - 8/17, I can still see a leaner physique from 8/17 - 9/27. Just keep at it and by week 14, you should be g2g.

What are you measurements cold? (arms, chest, legs, shoulders)

And when do we get to see the wheels? =)

[ANIMAL]

You look great man. You have excellent genetics and great symmetry.

Even though your gains are more obvious from 7/31 - 8/17, I can still see a leaner physique from 8/17 - 9/27. Just keep at it and by week 14, you should be g2g.

What are you measurements cold? (arms, chest, legs, shoulders)

And when do we get to see the wheels? =)

I'm almost starting to think this different bottle I got is not what it says to be. Because I started out taking 400mg Test/week and I've upped it to 600mg/week as well as increasing my calories, yet I'm not putting on weight. Just doesn't make sense to me. It may explain why I'm tired perhaps?

Hard to get leg shots, I don't have a full length mirror and every time I'm with my girl I forget to tell her to take some.

[Trying-Hard]

I'm almost starting to think this different bottle I got is not what it says to be. Because I started out taking 400mg Test/week and I've upped it to 600mg/week as well as increasing my calories, yet I'm not putting on weight. Just doesn't make sense to me. It may explain why I'm tired perhaps?

Hard to get leg shots, I don't have a full length mirror and every time I'm with my girl I forget to tell her to take some.

Blood test bro! It will tell all. But I'd wait a week or so to minimize over lap in the results from the last batch you were taking.

As far as feeling lethargic, we are in the same boat. I also go to bed at midnight and wake up at 6:30, and I am ALWAYS tired. I think this is due to the fact that we are getting less than 7 hrs of good sleep, or it could be hormonal and that's where the blood work would come into play. It is always a good idea to get blood work done anyways to check liver enzymes, HDL, LDL, etc.

And if you decide to get blood work from Privatemdlabs.com, don't make the same mistake I made and order the wrong kind of test. PM if you need more info.

GL

[Mr_Prop_var_Testen]

I'm almost starting to think this different bottle I got is not what it says to be. Because I started out taking 400mg Test/week and I've upped it to 600mg/week as well as increasing my calories, yet I'm not putting on weight. Just doesn't make sense to me. It may explain why I'm tired perhaps?

Hard to get leg shots, I don't have a full length mirror and every time I'm with my girl I forget to tell her to take some.

For the diet ur having right now ur getting exactly the results expected lean steady gains in muscle while dropping bf and strength gains.

U should not be expecting to gain a lot of weight from a 2000 cal diet even if it's all pure amino acid on 1g of test ew!

Ur not taking advantage of the test ability to use macros differently when it comes to cal intake and ur still treating ur body as if ur natty but on gear 2000 cals is an extreme cutting diet IMHO

From what I see if u need to see the scale moving u should eat min 3000cal +