1st cycle: test cyp @ 500mg/wk - 12 weeks!

[Trying-Hard]

Edit

[ruhkus]

I wouldn't call those slow strength increases 2 reps at 245 to 6 reps in 3 weeks. That seems über fast to me. But I have only ever trained natty, which is why I an lingering here with such interest. Might want to try the exact same thing you are on. I'm curious as to how much water weight you'll hold and how to lean out at the end.

[Trying-Hard]

I wouldn't call those slow strength increases 2 reps at 245 to 6 reps in 3 weeks. That seems über fast to me. But I have only ever trained natty, which is why I an lingering here with such interest. Might want to try the exact same thing you are on. I'm curious as to how much water weight you'll hold and how to lean out at the end.

Thanks. Ya, I think I am a little hard on myself as a few others have said the same.

As far as holding water, you can see in my above post that I am more bloated in week 3 versus week 1, which is why I upped my AI from .25mg eod to .5mg eod. But keep in mind that I am not cutting, I am bulking right now, so it's inevitable to get some water retention due to my diet. I am not planning on leaning out at the end of the cycle. I am going to wait for my second cycle to take a "cutting" drug w/ test.

Right now, it's time to pack on the weight..=)

[Trying-Hard]

Just got back from the gym. Did heavy squats and then finished the rest of the workout with high volume reps on leg press and leg extensions. My god I wanted to cry, but got to get these chicken legs to GROW.

315 for 8 on squats, ass to the ground (almost)

Great workout tonight!

[Trying-Hard]

Week 4 was a very bad week for me. I had to go on a business trip which killed my diet plan. I ended up injecting 500 mg at once on thursday since I knew I was going to miss the injection on the following Monday. I was at least able to workout though and I did not miss a body part. I finally achieved my long term goal of benching 315, so that was exciting.

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4

Now I am back from the business trip and it is time to get it back on. I hear week 5+ is where all the magic happens. I am looking forward to getting back on schedule...=)

EDIT: I also started HCG at the end of week 4. I took 500 IUs on last Thursday, will be taking 500 IUs on Mon / Thu of this week, and then week 6 I will start with the 250 IUs on injection days.

HCG will go throughout the entire cycle. I have read though that some recommend to keep on taking it until 5 days before PCT, or something of that sort. I will look it up but if anyone has any suggestions on when to stop talking HCG, I'd appreciate the advice. Thanks.

[West Coast Winner]

Week 4 was a very bad week for me. I had to go on a business trip which killed my diet plan. I ended up injecting 500 mg at once on thursday since I knew I was going to miss the injection on the following Monday. I was at least able to workout though and I did not miss a body part. I finally achieved my long term goal of benching 315, so that was exciting.

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4

Now I am back from the business trip and it is time to get it back on. I hear week 5+ is where all the magic happens. I am looking forward to getting back on schedule...=)

Man ya week 5+ is the shiiiiizzzz

[Trying-Hard]

So this week is week 5 and I am hoping to start seeing some major weight / strength gains. As of today, I have gained about 7-8 lbs. I am assuming this is a decent pace for a long ester like Cyp. My strength in the gym is up, but not exponentially or anything, but definitely noticeable.

I did legs yesterday and I was able to squat 315 for 10, 2 more rep than last week. 10th one was a struggle.

I started HCG at the end of last week and man, what a difference already! Just after 1000 total IUs, my boys went from very small to back to normal like they were prior to the cycle. I am very happy with this. Here is what I did / doing: (Keep in mind I am in week 5 now pinning Cyp Mon / Thr and HCG on same days)

End of week 4: 500 IUs on Thursday
Week 5: 500 IUs on Monday, 500 IUs on Thursday
Week 6-12: 250 IUs on Monday, 250 IUs on Thursday

Week 13: 500 IUs on Monday, 500 IUs on Thursday
Week 14: 500 IUs on Monday, 500 IUs on Thursday

SERMS (Clomid, Nolva) starts on the following Monday (which is 4 days after last HCG shot)

I will be sure to report my morning weight at the end of this week. I cant' wait to step on the scale and see 190 in the morning..=) (yes, i know, the scale doesn't mean much, but I am not gonna lie, I get very excited when it reads higher, haha)

[Trying-Hard]

Edit

[ANIMAL]

Good stuff man! Keep it up!!

[Trying-Hard]

Good stuff man! Keep it up!!

Thanks bro. You look phenomenal, BTW! =)

[ANIMAL]

Thanks bro. You look phenomenal, BTW! =)

Thanks dude! We seem to both be hitting week 5 together. If I could sleep in the gym I would lol. I don't want to leave.

[stpete]

As mentioned, stop looking at the scale. Keep up the good work!

[Trying-Hard]

Thanks dude! We seem to both be hitting week 5 together. If I could sleep in the gym I would lol. I don't want to leave.

HAHA. I hear ya.

As mentioned, stop looking at the scale. Keep up the good work!

I know man, bad habit! And thanks!

Just got done with my Thursday injection of Cyp and HCG . Hot damn I just can't get used to the initial burn of HCG. lol

[Trying-Hard]

Shoulder work out today. I had about 45 mins total to do them and had to work out at a very fast pace, which I DON'T like to do. I guess it's OK though given that it was a change of routine and we all know change is good. I guess it was mostly my fault for taking a lot of rest in the beginning of the workout to see what I can do with standing military barbell press. I just started doing this exercise recently and before cycle I couldn't do 135 for 7 while today I did 135 for 12, so that was nice to see.

Other than that, nothing exciting. I get MAJOR lactic acid build up in my shoulders, more so than any other muscle by FAR. I don't know why this happens, but it does. Even when I take 3-4 breaks between sets, my shoulders still get fatigued and worked up very quickly.

Anyway, week 5 comes to an end this Sunday and so far, so good. Nothing out of the ordinary as far as strength gains, but a slow, steady pace in gains. Looking forward to seeing what week 6 brings.

[Trying-Hard]

BK whopper and chicken sandwich just hit the spot!! Man, it's been a WHILE since I had a cheat meal. Felt great! lol

EDIT: Not sure why there is an angry icon in this post.

[Trying-Hard]

Today marks end of week 5.

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4

Is gaining 7 lbs after 5 weeks a decent pace? I feel a little disappointed given some of the numbers I hear on here, but I know everyone is different and I am pretty sure I have gained very little water weight instead of a lot.

EDIT: I am also thinking about switching my shots from Monday morning & Thursday evening to Sunday morning and Wednesday night. Both are 3.5 days apart, just switching the days. The reason why is because my wife has a hard time waking up monday morning just to give me the shot before I go to work. With a newborn, she needs all the rest she can get. What do you guys think of this and more importantly, will this have any negative effect? I am assuming NO but I want to ask and make sure. TIA

EDIT2: My nipples are starting to get erect and sensitive more often that usual. So what I want to do is start taking Nolvadex ED @ 20 mg throughout entire cycle and up until day of PCT, and also take 12.5mg of liquidstane ED (instead of EOD) throughout entire cycle and up until PCT. I think this may be a good starting point.

ANIMAL, what do you think?

[Buster Brown]

Those are good weight gains week to week. Rule 101: Don't compare yourself to the other guys in terms of gains, you WILL drive yourself nuts. The scale isn't something to live and die by either.

[Trying-Hard]

Those are good weight gains week to week.

Good to hear. I had my self a little worried and started to stare at my diet making sure all is well with it, but at 3500 calories of basically all clean food, I really don't think there is much improvements to be made. I just must be hard on myself...

The scale isn't something to live by, I know....but it is something that is an indication of my progress since my BF is basically sustained, along with strength gains in the gym.

[ANIMAL]

Today marks end of week 5.

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4

Is gaining 7 lbs after 5 weeks a decent pace? I feel a little disappointed given some of the numbers I hear on here, but I know everyone is different and I am pretty sure I have gained very little water weight instead of a lot.

EDIT: I am also thinking about switching my shots from Monday morning & Thursday evening to Sunday morning and Wednesday night. Both are 3.5 days apart, just switching the days. The reason why is because my wife has a hard time waking up monday morning just to give me the shot before I go to work. With a newborn, she needs all the rest she can get. What do you guys think of this and more importantly, will this have any negative effect? I am assuming NO but I want to ask and make sure. TIA

EDIT2: My nipples are starting to get erect and sensitive more often that usual. So what I want to do is start taking Nolvadex ED @ 20 mg throughout entire cycle and up until day of PCT, and also take 12.5mg of liquidstane ED (instead of EOD) throughout entire cycle and up until PCT. I think this may be a good starting point.

ANIMAL, what do you think?

First there is no problem switching your shots. I was doing mine on Mon/Thur and had to switch to tues/fri. It won't have any adverse effect.

I'd start 40mg of nolva. You'll probably only need to be at that dosage for a few days as you may see immediate results and then you can back off to 20mg for a week to make sure your symptoms are gone. I'd then drop to 10mg up until PCT then do your typical PCT protocol.

As for the stane, bump to 25mg. Same thing with the nolva if you just have sensitivity you won't need to be at that dose for long. Then I'd back down to 12.5mg once you drop the nolva to 20mg.

That's what I would do if it were me. If you start the nolva at 20mg you may need to take it longer to see results and you want to get rid of the symptoms asap. I felt like shit at the high doses but it did its job. Then when I came back down to 20mg nolva and 12.5mg my body took a day to adjust and I'm back to feeling really good. No sensitivity and no lumps.

[Trying-Hard]

First there is no problem switching your shots. I was doing mine on Mon/Thur and had to switch to tues/fri. It won't have any adverse effect.

I'd start 40mg of nolva. You'll probably only need to be at that dosage for a few days as you may see immediate results and then you can back off to 20mg for a week to make sure your symptoms are gone. I'd then drop to 10mg up until PCT then do your typical PCT protocol.

As for the stane, bump to 25mg. Same thing with the nolva if you just have sensitivity you won't need to be at that dose for long. Then I'd back down to 12.5mg once you drop the nolva to 20mg.

That's what I would do if it were me. If you start the nolva at 20mg you may need to take it longer to see results and you want to get rid of the symptoms asap. I felt like shit at the high doses but it did its job. Then when I came back down to 20mg nolva and 12.5mg my body took a day to adjust and I'm back to feeling really good. No sensitivity and no lumps.

Thanks bro. So just to recap to make sure I understand you 100%:

Take 40mg of Nolva and 25mg of l-stane simultaneously until sensitivity diminishes (this could be a few days or a week). Once sensitivity diminishes, drop the Nolva to 20mg ED for 1 week and drop L-stane to 12.5mg ED for 1 week. Then if all is well after that week, drop the Nolva to 10mg and take that ED until the day of PCT, and continue with the L-stane at 12.5mg and take that ED until day of PCT. Then obviously follow PCT protocol when time comes.

Do I have that right?

EDIT: I am now taking 500 IUs/wk of HCG (250 on each test injection day), so should I skip that for the next week or would 500 IUs total not be a big deal? I know HCG raises E levels which is why I am asking. Thanks again.

[ANIMAL]

Thanks bro. So just to recap to make sure I understand you 100%:

Take 40mg of Nolva and 25mg of l-stane simultaneously until sensitivity diminishes (this could be a few days or a week). Once sensitivity diminishes, drop the Nolva to 20mg ED for 1 week and drop L-stane to 12.5mg ED for 1 week. Then if all is well after that week, drop the Nolva to 10mg and take that ED until the day of PCT, and continue with the L-stane at 12.5mg and take that ED until day of PCT. Then obviously follow PCT protocol when time comes.

Do I have that right?

EDIT: I am now taking 500 IUs/wk of HCG (250 on each test injection day), so should I skip that for the next week or would 500 IUs total not be a big deal? I know HCG raises E levels which is why I am asking. Thanks again.

You got it. As for the HCG I'd continue with the 250iu per shot. If you had a lump then I'd say drop it. The nolva and stane will take care of your symptoms and you'll be able to continue the HCG.

Any reason why you waited until week 5 to start the HCG?

[Trying-Hard]

Thanks bro, much appreciated. I began this gyno protocol today.

I started HCG end of week 4 I did not find it necessary to start taking it from day 1 given that it takes 3-4 weeks alone for the fellas to start shrinking and the test to even kick in. Right as week 4 started, I noticed them getting much smaller which was exactly when I was due to start the HCG. The stuff is like magic though because after 3 shots of 500 IUs, they are back and as large and in charge as ever..=)

Next cycle I may start HCG at 250 IUs from 1st shot, not sure yet. I am obviously gyno prone so I will have to think about how I will go about the next cycle and how I will incorporate/dose AI/SERM from day 1. I'll get that info when time comes.

[ANIMAL]

Yea, I had the same reasoning on the HCG , just wanted to hear what your understanding was. I wanted to start on week 4, but had to wait until this week (start of week 6) to start because of the gyno. I may extend my cycle from 12 weeks to 14 weeks for that reason.

I'm still undecided if I want to cycle the HCG 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and then ran in PCT or if I want to run it now for the remaining 6 weeks of the cycle and leave it out in PCT. But science (not broscience) is leading me to cycle it and do a blast in PCT.

[Trying-Hard]

Yea, I had the same reasoning on the HCG , just wanted to hear what your understanding was. I wanted to start on week 4, but had to wait until this week (start of week 6) to start because of the gyno. I may extend my cycle from 12 weeks to 14 weeks for that reason.

I'm still undecided if I want to cycle the HCG 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and then ran in PCT or if I want to run it now for the remaining 6 weeks of the cycle and leave it out in PCT. But science (not broscience) is leading me to cycle it and do a blast in PCT.

Well, let's keep eachother posted because it looks like I am planning on doing the opposite of you, so we can learn from one another. I started HCG end of week 4 and my first (3) shots were 500 IUs, and from this point forward it will be 250 IUs until 5 days before PCT where I will drop it completely. But I gotta tell you, I think I am most impressed with the HCG so far than anything else. Read post #24:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e-Check-Please!!!

Anyway, GL bro and we will stay in touch to hear about your recovery with your method (if you decide to go that route) and my recovery with mine. I am sure both are better than nothing..=)

[Trying-Hard]

Chest today. First workout of week 6. Come on 275 for 8 on bench!!!!! lol. I'll report back tonight.

ANIMAL, I don't know if it is in my head or not, but I swear my nipples are not sensetive anymore. Can it be that only after two days of dosing the AI/SERM that the sensetivity subsides? Hmm..

[ANIMAL]

Chest today. First workout of week 6. Come on 275 for 8 on bench!!!!! lol. I'll report back tonight.

ANIMAL, I don't know if it is in my head or not, but I swear my nipples are not sensetive anymore. Can it be that only after two days of dosing the AI/SERM that the sensetivity subsides? Hmm..

No, it works that fast if it's just sensitivity. Stay on those doses for 1 more day and then taper down to what we discussed. You may be able to drop the nolva after you taper and just keep the stane ED at 12.5mg.

[Trying-Hard]

No, it works that fast if it's just sensitivity. Stay on those doses for 1 more day and then taper down to what we discussed. You may be able to drop the nolva after you taper and just keep the stane ED at 12.5mg.

Thanks bro. Will do.

[Trying-Hard]

Just got done with chest/tris. Unfortunately, I am not any stronger than I was 2 weeks ago. Is it possible that the test still has not kicked in 100%? Today is my first day of week 6. I know, I am one impatient mofo, lol. Getting a little discouraged but I am going to be patient.

Flat bench:
135 15x (warm up)
185 15x (warm up)
225 10x
275 6x
275 5x

Incline bench:
185 10x
225 6x (could have done 8, but wanted to save energy for last set)
225 7x

Incline hammer machine:
180 lbs (+ machine) 10x
230 lbs 8x
230 lbs 8x

Cable flys:
light weight, 15 reps x2

Then I finished off some with tris. Nothing too exciting.

Overall, good workout, good pump, and I feel good. I just want to see improvements in the gym a little faster.

Legs tomorrow!

[ANIMAL]

Just got done with chest/tris. Unfortunately, I am not any stronger than I was 2 weeks ago. Getting a little discouraged but I am going to be patient.

Flat bench:
135 15x (warm up)
185 15x (warm up)
225 10x
275 6x
275 5x

Incline bench:
185 10x
225 6x (could have done 8, but wanted to save energy for last set)
225 7x

Incline hammer machine:
180 lbs (+ machine) 10x
230 lbs 8x
230 lbs 8x

Cable flys:
light weight, 15 reps x2

Then I finished off some with tris. Nothing too exciting.

Is it possible that the test still has not kicked in 100%? Today is my first week of week 6. I know, I am one impatient mofo, lol.

Overall, good workout, good pump, and I feel good. I just want to see improvements faster.

Legs tomorrow!

Instead of doing a second set of 275 for 5 you can do 295 and bang out 3-4, strip the weight to 185 and rep out ending with a drop set. Then the following week hit 295 for 5 or 315 for 4 and finish with a drop set to failure.

Need to put on weight to gain strength. That's how I've always trained whether I was cutting or bulking. Give it a shot. Don't get discouraged. Go into the lift saying you're going to do it.

[Trying-Hard]

Instead of doing a second set of 275 for 5 you can do 295 and bang out 3-4, strip the weight to 185 and rep out ending with a drop set. Then the following week hit 295 for 5 or 315 for 4 and finish with a drop set to failure.

Man, I wish it was that easy, lol. 275 is heavy for me. I can do it 6x, but when I get to the 6th one it is a struggle. The 7th one I need help. If I were to do 295, I would get it 2-3 max (I max out at 315). But I know what you are saying and I agree, that if one wants to get stronger, they got to lift heavy, and I used to lift heavy until I realized I am working my joints more than my muscles, and that is when I added the philosophy of....if I can't do something 6x clean and by myself, it's too much weight. If I can do something 6x clean and by myself, then it is time to move up in weight. So why didn't I move up to 285 or 295 when I did 275 for 6 clean? I don't know, lol. I most certainly will next time I do flat bench.

I guess I just had the image of the test helping me and if I was able to do 275 for 6x week 4, why am I still only doing it 6x on week 6? This is what is bothering me. Either I am being too hard on myself, or I am not being patient.

Thanks bro. Looking forward to hearing some updates on your thread.

[Trying-Hard]

Hit legs on Tuesday, and the insertion point of my muscle into my knee (that area) was killing me. I have had this problem for a long time and all the docs say is "you need to lay off of lifting heavy weights" ya....umm, no! So the workout wasn't very good, but I managed to get all my reps/sets in. Some highlights.

Quads (in order)
Leg press, 7 plates each side, 10x (I like volume)
Squats, 315, 8x (I was dead tired from all the leg presses, and my pain was very bad and I couldn't push with my legs like I wanted)
Leg extensions, 3 sets, cant recal weight
walking lunges with 30lb dbs

Yesterday did back/bis. Some highlights (exercises not in order)

Bent over-rows, 225, 10x
wide grip lat pull down, 170, 10x
seat rows, 220, 10x
t-bar rows, 3 plates, 8x
some strange exercise
below the knee rack pull downs, 315, 10x

I know a lot of you may think I need to up the weight and lower the reps, and while I do agree I should, I just feel my body is so damn fragile and suspect to joint pains. I am the kind of guy that has wrists/ankles smaller than your girlfriend's. I think my bones are hollow..lol. I am basically in pain everyday after I lift, and it is not a form issue as I practice perfect form (or try to, at least). So going heavy for me is not something my body/joints responds well to.

[Trying-Hard]

No change in weight this week. So week 3-6 there has been no change in weight, and I am eating damn ear 4K calories/day.

Getting blood work next week to check Testosterone (free and total), Estrogen levels, Lipid profiles, CBC, complete metabolic panel, FSH and LH.

SOmething has to be going on for me not to be gaining weight.

Anyone know what is the normal range of Estrogen levels?

[Trying-Hard]

Starting morning weight: 180.0
End of week 1: 180.6
End of week 2: 184.0
End of week 3: 187.2
End of week 4: 186.4
End of week 5: 187.4
End of week 6: 187.2
End of week 7: 189.4

I got my blood test back. Most everything was good, test levels were high (although I don't know exact number since I apparently ordered the wrong test), but my LDL was too high (39) so I am taking something for that for the time being.

I still have not gotten my estrogen levels back...I guess this test takes 7 days.

5 weeks left, and at this rate it is looking like my end weight will be right around 192 if I had to guess. We shall see what happens.

[austinite]

^ good gains. Any changes in body fat? Where is your test level sitting at and what test did you get? Have you been checking your blood pressure?

[Trying-Hard]

^ good gains. Any changes in body fat? Where is your test level sitting at and what test did you get? Have you been checking your blood pressure?

I have not been monitoring my bodyfat in any way except appearance. My bf, if I had to guess by what my eyes tell me, has not changed even a +/- 1%

As far as my T level, I don't know exactly where they sit. When I got my results back, it said my T levels are >1,500 (flagged "high") but it did not tell me exactly the number. So am I 1520? 1550? 2500? I dont know, sadly. I ordered "free and total" Testosterone , but apparently I had to specify if I wanted the results to tell me a specific number if above 1500. IDK, I will have to research it next time because this was a waste of money and time (sort of)

BP is 120/70 as of 1 week ago.

[stpete]

Nice lean gains. And if indeed you do end up there and happen to keep them, you have done great.

[Trying-Hard]

Thanks stpete.

Well guys, today is the FIRST day that I went to the gym and I actually noticed something. It took a whole whoppin SEVEN WEEKS for me to feel what I felt today. Talk about the test kicking in wayyyy late! Now I only have 5 weeks left and I am bummed. So, any objections to extending the cycle from 12 weeks to 14 weeks??

Anyway, chest and tris today. Massive pump and finally, noticeable strength gains.

Incline DBs:
25s (warm up)
50s (warm up)
60s (warm up)
100s 13x
110s 10x (could have done 12)

I wanted to do one more set so bad of 115s or 120s, but not having a spotter and all the excitement rushing through me, I called it quits there.

Flat bench:
225 10x
245 8x
265 6x
drop set, 185, 10x

Incline hammer:
200 lbs, 3 sets of 8

Some tris to finish off the day. Not heavy, just reps. My triceps are way too over developed anyway.

I am happy to finally feel that I am actually on something. =)

[Trying-Hard]

So after talking to a few vets on here and explaining that it took me 7 full weeks for the test to kick in, I have decided (and they agreed) to lengthen my cycle from 12 to 14 weeks. It wasn't until week 6 that I started getting some acne and the first day of week 8 to notice strength gains. So I am very excited to see what happens at the end of 14 weeks. I would love to get to 195+ morning weight.

I have also started to pin HCG two days after cyp injections to keep T levels more stable (Swifto's recommendation)

Did legs yesterday and like always, I have pain in my knees and surrounding muscles so I can't hit them as hard as I want and that is very unfortunate since my legs are by far my weakest body part. But at least I get in there and hit them as hard as I possibly can. They are not small, but are not up to par with my upper body and it drives me nuts. =(

Leg extensions:
5 sets of warm up

Leg press:
3 plates (each side) 20 reps
4 plates, 20 reps
5 plates, 15 reps
6 plates, 15 reps
7 plates, 10 reps

Hack squats:
1 plate, 10 reps
2 plates, 10 reps
2 plates & 10 lbs, 10 reps
drop set with 1 plate, 10 reps

Leg extensions:
3 sets of 15 with moderate weight

My quads were FRIED at this point and I called it quits.

Back and bi's today but I may take the day off and get back to the gym on Thr, Fri, Sat and then take Sun off.

[OnTheSauce]

Most hack squat machines kill my knees.

[Trying-Hard]

Most hack squat machines kill my knees.

Every leg exercise hurts my knees, but I know what you mean with the hack squats. I just put my feet very high up on the foot pad to minimize knee pain. It works, but only to some extent, and this is the way it is for me on ALL leg exercises. It seriously SUCKS!

BTW, I updated cycle and diet info on my OP.

I will take measurements this week for comparison and post them up given that I am at a tad over the half way point of my cycle.